I feel like it would be cool if shotguns worked in Destiny like they did in John Wick 2. Really powerful, but leave you very vulnerable. Kind of like 4th horseman. Maybe part of the problem is the reload speed not being slow enough.

I haven't seen it yet, but as someone who cringes at firearm portrayals in movies, I've heard good things about this movie. Plus Reeves looks like he knows what he is doing. Here's a clip of him running 3 gun and he's doing pretty well.

Maybe part of the problem is the reload speed not being slow enough.

Bro,

I've had the first John Wick sitting on my shelf for like six months now. I guess I should finally get around to watching that.

I feel like it would be cool if shotguns worked in Destiny like they did in John Wick 2. Really powerful, but leave you very vulnerable. Kind of like 4th horseman. Maybe part of the problem is the reload speed not being slow enough.

Long guns of all varieties are grossly more powerful in real life than they are as portrayed in Destiny (most video games, really). The range on a shotgun is orders of magnitude longer than in the game. A good "scout rifle" or DMR should be accurate out to 1500 feet, which is bigger than most maps in the game (most games, really). A sniper rifle can hit a target a mile away. Of course, they're also far less lethal when it comes to extremity damage. There's only so many shotgun blasts to the legs that you can take before you don't have legs any more. Assuming you're smart with a tourniquet (Zip ties built in to your armor, as modern soldiers have), you'll survive that in real life (though not really be in fighting shape).

So realism kind of goes out the door for an FPS unless you're really trying to make a straight sim game.

That being said, JW2 was a badass movie and some of those shotgun kills were absolutely brutal.

Speaking of brutal shotgun kills, me and the wife are finally catching up with Daredevil S2. Those Irish didn't see it coming!

- MacGyver10

The thing about shotguns that I would rather see represented is functional range over the one shot potential that all games seem to focus on. In fact, fire rates on shotguns should be faster, their range more substantial, but their potential for a one shot should be minimized. Limited to just outside melee range for a game like Destiny. However, the speed of a two shot kill (what should be in the more ideal range band) should be substantially faster than it has been, and 3+ should be a possibility at farther ranges. Reload speeds also shouldn't be obtusely slow.

But this is something I have felt should be the case with shotguns in games for over 20 years and usually no one runs with that.

The thing about shotguns that I would rather see represented is functional range over the one shot potential that all games seem to focus on. In fact, fire rates on shotguns should be faster, their range more substantial, but their potential for a one shot should be minimized. Limited to just outside melee range for a game like Destiny. However, the speed of a two shot kill (what should be in the more ideal range band) should be substantially faster than it has been, and 3+ should be a possibility at farther ranges. Reload speeds also shouldn't be obtusely slow.

But this is something I have felt should be the case with shotguns in games for over 20 years and usually no one runs with that.

You play any Battlefield? The shotguns in those games tend to be more in line with realism... mostly (flashback of Bluerunner's Saiga w/ 12g Frag Round sniping in BF3)...
I've always loved the range of shotguns in Battlefield. Longer range, but still makes you ineffective against larger groups, and you'll likely lose engagements if you're getting shot first.

God damn, I love me some Jerry!

Also, that makes me want to post some of my 3gun videos. not Keanu speed yet, but getting there (shotgun is my worst aspect, pistol and rifle I am up there in speed)

... Titanfall 2 absolutely nails shotguns within their sandbox. It seems to me that they approached Shotguns (and most weapons in the game) with a specific play style in mind. Lots of developers say they do that, but their theoretical play styles never seem to line up with the way people actually play the game. But Respawn knows how to polish a sandbox.

In the case of shotguns in Titanfall, they're a perfect choice for players who have mastered the traversal mechanics and like to employ a "hit and run" play style. They have greater range and RoF, and a faster reload than shotguns in most games. On paper that sounds crazy overpowered, but in practice it works beautifully. Titanfall features a lot of really long sight-lines. So running around with a shotgun can be suicide unless you're very smart about how you get from point A to B. Once you close the gap and get within ~20 feet of your opponent, the shotgunner usually has the advantage. But it's still not a sure bet. All primaries in Titanfall have a very fast time to kill, so you usually can't afford to make a mistake with your shotgun. You need to be good at tracking your target and aiming your weapon while flying past them or bouncing around them at high speed. This also means skilled players can successfully counter shotgun-rushers with careful maneuvering of their own.

I have and do appreciate their choices with shotguns in many cases. But they still tend to feel clunky and not nearly as high volume of fire that you can get with real combat shotguns. Rainbow 6 games tend to do rather well with shotguns in that regard as well. I guess I was being hyperbolic regarding no one making shotguns viable outside of melee ranges. But I do wish that devs would break away from the cumbersone/extreme damage model of shotguns for a more reliable-moder-to-high damage with robust flexibility that shotguns are actually for. Your risk/reward is built on landing shots accurately to maximize damage and you are punished for poor accuracy with the cost of ammunition. Maybe I'll find the time to fit some more Battlefield back into my game schedule. Or go replay R6V.

I'm a headshot machine with the slugs in BF1. I feel the ranges are pretty acceptable there. I do wish I could swap out chimes like in BF4.

As far as real life, I've dinged up trees at 150 yards with OOO buckshot. You couldn't reliably hit anything at that range, but they'd still put some hurt on your target.

I have to agree with some of this, but have to disagree as well. What you speak to works reliably with the Eva-8. It suffers from the FPS-Standard-Shotgun-Damage-Wall(tm), but does have very high accuracy (spread) out to that range. Being semi auto also allows it to bypass most of the slower shotgugn issues many games have.

However, the other two options (Mastiff and Mozambique) trade classic game shotgun mechanics for projectiles in a predictable spread. The Mastiff benefits greatly from slower engagement with rapid relocation. A-Wall makes it a beast to lock down tight spaces and even some longer corridors. However, it suffers from slow pumps and reloading. It also doesn't have disappearing projectiles, which lead to great harassment at long ranges. The Mozambique is spam fire but also can be used out to much greater ranges than sidearms tend to be in most games while keeping a solid kill potential, though it is better served with mobility - but anyone playing slow can be taken out at great range with it.

So, I would say they zig-zag around the common pitfalls. I'm just waiting for a third shotgun in the game (O/U maybe, with high accuracy and longer range than the Eva-8 would fullfil a currently empty role for example.)

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Speaking of brutal shotgun kills, me and the wife are finally catching up with Daredevil S2. Those Irish didn't see it coming!

That is an incredible show. Make sure to follow up with Jessica Jones and Luke Cage, they're both just as good in their own ways, IMO.

I have to agree with some of this, but have to disagree as well. What you speak to works reliably with the Eva-8. It suffers from the FPS-Standard-Shotgun-Damage-Wall(tm), but does have very high accuracy (spread) out to that range. Being semi auto also allows it to bypass most of the slower shotgugn issues many games have.

However, the other two options (Mastiff and Mozambique) trade classic game shotgun mechanics for projectiles in a predictable spread. The Mastiff benefits greatly from slower engagement with rapid relocation. A-Wall makes it a beast to lock down tight spaces and even some longer corridors. However, it suffers from slow pumps and reloading. It also doesn't have disappearing projectiles, which lead to great harassment at long ranges. The Mozambique is spam fire but also can be used out to much greater ranges than sidearms tend to be in most games while keeping a solid kill potential, though it is better served with mobility - but anyone playing slow can be taken out at great range with it.

So, I would say they zig-zag around the common pitfalls. I'm just waiting for a third shotgun in the game (O/U maybe, with high accuracy and longer range than the Eva-8 would fullfil a currently empty role for example.)

Thanks for the feedback.

I should have said up front, the vast majority of my shotgun experience in Titanfall is with the first game and the Eva-8. I haven't touched any of the shotguns in Titanfall 2 outside of the campaign, save for a few minutes with the Eva-8 (just enough for me to know that it is more or less the same as it was in the first game).

This comes back around to the article I shared in another thread, but I haven't touched 99% of the gear in Titanfall 2. I found the specific loadout that suits my playstle, and I've spent at least a couple hundred hours refining that playstyle without ever wanting or needing to swap gear around. I use the R-201 Carbine and Charge Rifle, which are the 2 default starting weapons that come with your very first loadout. I use the Pilot Sentry turret, firestar grenades, and the grappling hook. And that's pretty much all I've ever used. For Titans, I'll use Scorch or Legion once in a while, but 99% of the time I use Tone.

There's just so much room to learn and grow your skills in this game that I don't feel the need to try new gear yet. If I have 1 complaint about Titanfall 2, its that I think there is actually a bit too much stuff in the sandbox. I thought the weapon selection in the first game was just about perfect. But reviewers knocked it for not having a Battlefield level of gear options (which IMO completely misses the point of what Respawn was going for), so I'm not surprised that they added a bunch more stuff for T2.

Add a pinch of Tribes into the mix, and you've nailed it :)

Yeah. I tend to have about 80% homogeny through my classes. But I like variety to focus on different skills and to better use the designs of different maps. Also, I used to run Volt almost constantly, but with the two nerfs it has received, I don't like the handicap. But I run a generally run pretty similar classes with a piece changed here or there. Mostly changing primaries

Admittedly, last I looked I had over 13hrs in Ion, and minimal (3+Hrs in Tone, lass than 1 hour with the other 4) in the others. For the Rifles, SMGs, and MGs, I think overall they have a good spread covered, where none are too different, but their differences support different playstyles more than others. Some of it works well, but I think that it is a sandbox that might still have room to grow. I spread my time across different Pilot weapons and it does change up the game. Some weapons Benefit more from aggressive movement, while others from aggressive repositioning. While those are similar skills overall, it is nice to have the slight variance between weapons that supports different performance with different maps.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that the skills that are most important to work at in TF2 don't force you into one load out. Movement is the skill, gear is he flavor. And I do like flavor variety.

I feel like it would be cool if shotguns worked in Destiny like they did in John Wick 2. Really powerful, but leave you very vulnerable. Kind of like 4th horseman. Maybe part of the problem is the reload speed not being slow enough.

Coming back around to my "customization" woes, weapon customization isn't really a thing.
Now hold up, before you say "but all the rolls tho", yeah I get it. If you roll the dice enough, you can get a cool "custom" weapon setup you like...but that's not what I'm talking about.

Since we are focusing on shotguns.

Instead of gaining XP to upgrade intellect, and roll stats, imagine.

Your green engram decrypts to a Base shotgun. And instead of constantly decrypting and breaking down weapons for higher light...you actually unlock weapon parts, and you can build out your weapon however you want making it more and more powerful.

Short smooth barrel (for speed and agility), open choke (for mass spreadiness), shot shell (to pepper the world), folding stock (hip shot speed)- That MFer clears a room if you're fast enough.

Long rifled barrel (range), improved cylinder choke, slug shell (stopping power), scope - That MFer drops an MFer with one shot from afar but it kicks like a damn mule!

Same applies for hand guns and rifles. And since it's destiny, add some magic to it like arc bolts and solar splodes and stuff.

I feel like it would be cool if shotguns worked in Destiny like they did in John Wick 2. Really powerful, but leave you very vulnerable. Kind of like 4th horseman. Maybe part of the problem is the reload speed not being slow enough.

Coming back around to my "customization" woes, weapon customization isn't really a thing.
Now hold up, before you say "but all the rolls tho", yeah I get it. If you roll the dice enough, you can get a cool "custom" weapon setup you like...but that's not what I'm talking about.

Since we are focusing on shotguns.

Instead of gaining XP to upgrade intellect, and roll stats, imagine.

Your green engram decrypts to a Base shotgun. And instead of constantly decrypting and breaking down weapons for higher light...you actually unlock weapon parts, and you can build out your weapon however you want making it more and more powerful.

Short smooth barrel (for speed and agility), open choke (for mass spreadiness), shot shell (to pepper the world), folding stock (hip shot speed)- That MFer clears a room if you're fast enough.

Long rifled barrel (range), improved cylinder choke, slug shell (stopping power), scope - That MFer drops an MFer with one shot from afar but it kicks like a damn mule!

Same applies for hand guns and rifles. And since it's destiny, add some magic to it like arc bolts and solar splodes and stuff.

Now imagine trying to make that fair in PvP. It would be impossible. I frankly don't know how they currently do it now.

Now imagine trying to make that fair in PvP. It would be impossible. I frankly don't know how they currently do it now.

The same way they do it now. Level out power with minimal custom performance differences.

Otherwise you have a sweet weapon you want in PvE and Iron Banner, not just "eh, well...its the best one I've found so far."

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Now imagine trying to make that fair in PvP. It would be impossible. I frankly don't know how they currently do it now.

The same way they do it now. Level out power with minimal custom performance differences.

Otherwise you have a sweet weapon you want in PvE and Iron Banner, not just "eh, well...its the best one I've found so far."

Yeah, but it sounds that from what you are proposing, there will be an exponentially more possible OP combinations.

# Barrel mods X # choke mods X # shell mods X # scope mods X Number of guns + Exotics X # mods = a TON of variations to compensate for

It's true, that Destiny already has a ton of variations, but this would increase that a ton.
More variables = More fun = more problems for devs = more potential places to break the ecosystem

Don't get me wrong, I love what you are proposing. But I'm also a Dev and the idea of maintaining that hurts my head, like a lot.

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In general, I don't think that would actually be any more difficult. And core design changes would be easier as instead of fully random gear, the most competitive parts would be more common. Unless they have ridiculously rare drop rates. But so long as there isn't more theoretical variety than already exists with the randomly generated gear, it's the same amount of variables to balance. People will just more reliably have "meta" gear.

This conversation about loadout is really interesting. I play very differently. Once I level something up to, say, rank 8, I switch to the next item in my list. This has made me fond of quite a few seldom seen guns. I really like the G2 - that may be my go-to (get it?) gun once I regenerate. That full auto sidearm is a beast in close ranges, too. Smart pistol is a pretty great bonus thingy, and even though I believe Tone is the best titan for a number of reasons, I had a lot of fun playing Ronin and (once I figured out how) scorch. Sniping is quite rewarding when you get used to it, but it's a high K/D low kills weapon whereas the other guns put you in the thick of the action.

I will say that I'm never going back to another special move now that I've unlocked dimensional warp. It's just so powerful.

You decide what mods you want to be the best for pvp and then you make every other mod worse for pvp in some way. Then you only have to test your ideal builds against one another to find cross-class balance.

Caveat: There's always a chance one of your other mods will be unintentionally game breaking. This is why you patch things later.

The way I like to think about it is to have a chart where if you map out damage per shot, the ideal PvP weapons should achieve ~200 damage in an exact number of shots, with no wasted damage. Then you could mod to shoot slightly slower but deal more damage (making the gun worse for pvp, but better dps for pve), or shoot more quickly but with far less accuracy, making it good for crowds but bad for killing just that one guy in pvp.