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This actually relates to Destiny: New Emblem in PvP (Destiny)

by Kahzgul, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 03:57 (2931 days ago)

I hopped into a PvP match today to experience the glory of the new sandbox. UGH. Not only was my dismal 11 and 13 showing still enough to finish first on my team, but I got a whopping 6 primary kills closer to the "weekly" clash bounty that I've had since last December (only 24 to go!). That being said, at the end of the match I got a brand new emblem I've never seen before. Amaze! It's completely ugly, so I don't recommend going back just for that, but hey - there's something new in the game if you're a compulsive collector like me!

I guess I should review my sandbox experience:

I've got a god roll Lyudmila-D that I was using. Headseeker, Braced Frame, Red Dot OES. Two burst kills were possible (and FAST when they happened), but not being used to the gun (or the game, at this point), I was looking at three or four bursts most of the time, which is why I spent so much of the round napping in the dirt. Anyway, I'm not sold on "Low ROF Pulse Rifles will dominate the meta" sky is falling shenanigans people were crying about over on reddit. In fact, none of the other players in the game were using low RoF pulses. There were two NLB/sidearm heroes on the other team, and they had the two highest scores in the game by a wide margin. My team mostly had guys with empty shotguns wondering why their shotguns were empty. It seems that the game is now more about sniping the other team while they attempt to collect special ammo, and/or successfully collecting that ammo only to never be in a situation where you want to use it because its precious! I'm just kidding. I was playing with a sidearm so I never ran out of special.

Matchmaking took forever and the round started as 5 on 4, but did eventually fill out to a full 12 players. There was no lag at all, which was surprising. Maybe it's just that my old AT&T internet is complete garbage and my new, allegedly inferior, Comcast internet is actually better. Who knows?

Anyway, new emblem. It's pastel blue with dark blue and has swords on it. It was so ugly I've blocked out the name.

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I'm confused

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 04:22 (2931 days ago) @ Kahzgul

The new patch isn't out yet.

The emblem sounds like the Swords of Dawn emblem from the festival of the lost.

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Apparently I am, too?

by Kahzgul, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 07:20 (2931 days ago) @ unoudid

I played easily 100 hours since the dawning came out and never once saw that emblem. Then logged in today for just one match and got it. I assumed it was new.

Are you sure the patch hasn't hit yet? Destiny downloaded a patch when I launched it and the special ammo rules changes certainly seemed to be in effect (unless every player in the game was intentionally practicing only using special in the life they picked it up during).

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I also downloaded a thingy, but I turn the game on rarely.

by Funkmon @, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 09:32 (2931 days ago) @ Kahzgul

- No text -

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Apparently I am, too?

by squidnh3, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 10:17 (2931 days ago) @ Kahzgul

Patch doesn't drop till 10 AM Pacific. Maybe in your universe it got applied a day early?

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Apparently I am, too?

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 12:13 (2931 days ago) @ Kahzgul

I played easily 100 hours since the dawning came out and never once saw that emblem. Then logged in today for just one match and got it. I assumed it was new.

Are you sure the patch hasn't hit yet? Destiny downloaded a patch when I launched it and the special ammo rules changes certainly seemed to be in effect (unless every player in the game was intentionally practicing only using special in the life they picked it up during).

...

Tell us again about how you're an expert at testing methodology, Last week you were blathering about worst case scenarios being most likely solutions and about Bungie's corporate culture being a hinderance and inferring things about Destiny's weapons and codebase that we absolutely did not have enough data to infer...

Now you post a first person account of changes that had not happened and wouldn't for another ten hours. You didn't check or notice if shotguns were doing critical damage. You didn't do the simple test of walking up to a Special Ammo box to see if it was on a three minute timer or a thirty second one. So yeah, expert, tell us about FOS PvP balance again. Tell us about Bungie's metrics only approach to balancing. Tell us about the way their networking works and why it is bad. Or rather, don't.

I think you're full of it. I think you have an agenda that Destiny is bad and Bungie's is incompetent when almost every time what you say fails to match up to known data and careful observation.

Which games did you balance again? What was your actual position? Were you brought in on a weekend or did you actually do something more that normal play testing and feedback?

And do you have any proof of your claims?

P.S. I checked. There was no Destiny update this morning. And Soecial Ammo is still on the three minute timer. So yes, we're sure the update has not happened yet.

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Uh...

by slycrel ⌂, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 15:25 (2931 days ago) @ Ragashingo

...you should chill.

Testing was his job. As a hobbyist game dev and a developer of > 20 years, what he says, while ultimately opinion, makes sense from a software testing standpoint.

Last night he played a little crucible and thought a patch happened because he saw something new to him.

Not everyone knows everything about this game. Just because something is common knowledge in the community at large doesn't mean everyone actually knows everything.

/sigh

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Uh...

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 18:01 (2931 days ago) @ slycrel

One post mistaking an update being live is one thing. I've done that before with Destiny and I certainly would not have a clue if I did or didn't get an upcoming patch if I reinstalled Halo 5 or Titanfall 2. Seeing an update of about the right size when you come back to a game after a while can make it feel different even if it isn't. Again, I've been there.

But I'm looking at the bigger picture. I strongly disagree with Kahzgul on multiple issues he's posted repeatedly about. Things like: Destiny's networking, especially the split between single player and multiplayer or lack thereof. Or, Bungie's weapons balance philosophy and methodology.

It's to the point now that I believe his experience is consistently and willfully being applied wrongly or blatantly unfairly to Destiny for reasons I don't understand. Or, his experience isn't as extensive as claimed. Therefore, I'm pressing the question of experience. It certainly seems the easier of the two options to rule out.

Should I have asked more nicely? Yes. Thank you for the reminder.

But I stand behind my belief and my question.

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Uh...

by Kahzgul, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 21:42 (2931 days ago) @ Ragashingo

One post mistaking an update being live is one thing. I've done that before with Destiny and I certainly would not have a clue if I did or didn't get an upcoming patch if I reinstalled Halo 5 or Titanfall 2. Seeing an update of about the right size when you come back to a game after a while can make it feel different even if it isn't. Again, I've been there.

So.. you understand my confusion.


But I'm looking at the bigger picture. I strongly disagree with Kahzgul on multiple issues he's posted repeatedly about. Things like: Destiny's networking, especially the split between single player and multiplayer or lack thereof. Or, Bungie's weapons balance philosophy and methodology.

I try very hard to clearly delineate between my observations (what I think is going on) and what I would prefer to see done. Those are different things. You can disagree with my personal philosophy of how I'd design a game all you want, but if you're arguing against my observable facts, you're just plain wrong there. I don't believe in alternative facts, Raga. I call it like I see it.

You may also want to take note of my OP in this thread: No lag whatsoever in the one game I played. That's a pretty huge thing for this game, and I've consistently stated that Destiny without lag is one of the finest PvP experiences I've ever encountered. I'm not sure how that observation combined with my positive opinion fits your "Kahzgul has a negative agenda" agenda, but I'm sure you'll find a way. I honestly don't know why I engage with you about this because you seem to have decided I'm always wrong. Obviously I disagree on that point. Go figure.

With regards to weapon balance, I do not have any idea how bungie is balancing their weapons. It doesn't appear to be how I've balanced weapons in the past. That's all I've got for you. Everything else I've said on the matter is an explanation of how I've done it before, why I think that's a good idea, and why it seems to me that Bungie isn't doing that. They may be, I don't know. But because the weapons appear to be consistently out of balance, I don't believe they are doing what I consider to be "best practices" in that regard. Also, I posted below about the patch when it was first announced and included a bit you may have missed: My assumption is that Bungie, or any FPS designer, would want a game where all weapon types are viable. If Bungie does not want that, then you have to throw my balance ideas out the door. It is very possible that they only want a handful of weapons to be top tier weapons and want players to gravitate towards those. If that's the case, then you only need to balance for those small numbers of weapons and then ensure everything else is worse for pvp. I don't know what their philosophy is because they haven't ever, as far as I'm aware, communicated that.


It's to the point now that I believe his experience is consistently and willfully being applied wrongly or blatantly unfairly to Destiny for reasons I don't understand. Or, his experience isn't as extensive as claimed. Therefore, I'm pressing the question of experience. It certainly seems the easier of the two options to rule out.

I dunno dude. I worked on games for 13 years. I worked on some great ones (NOLF, COD:BRO, AVP:Gold) and I worked on some shitty ones (inside the SAT, Lemony Snicket's very long title, Croc 2). I did this for a long time and I did it with people who were top tier AAA devs. I've worked at Mindscape, Fox Interactive, EA, and Activision. Or I'm just a guy on the internet. If what I'm saying doesn't make sense to you, please tell me why it doesn't make sense instead of saying your only reason is you think I'm a liar (I'm not). It is well and good that two different people should have two different opinions of the same game; perhaps you should simply accept that I find fault with things you don't, and vice versa.


Should I have asked more nicely? Yes. Thank you for the reminder.

Please apply this to all posts going forward. You are frequently insulting and rude, and that makes it very difficult for me to engage in the sort of reasonable discourse I look forward to on these forums.


But I stand behind my belief and my question.

You're certainly entitled to your own beliefs, but where I'm concerned, I've been completely honest about my professional experience and opinions on the game throughout my posts here. I'm sorry that you feel like questioning my credibility is a more worthwhile effort than arguing against my points. We're just two guys on the internet here, so I'm not very likely to present you with actual evidence confirming who I am in real life. I don't know why you've decided a witch hunt is a good idea, but I'd like to ask you to desist.

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Uh...

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 01:09 (2923 days ago) @ Kahzgul

If what I'm saying doesn't make sense to you, please tell me why it doesn't make sense instead of saying your only reason is you think I'm a liar (I'm not).

I'm sorry that you feel like questioning my credibility is a more worthwhile effort than arguing against my points.

I have told you why I don't think you make sense several times. I have argued against your points several times. I didn't question your credibility instead of addressing what you've said. I questioned your credibility because of what you've said.

It is well and good that two different people should have two different opinions of the same game; perhaps you should simply accept that I find fault with things you don't, and vice versa.

It's fine to disagree. It's not find to disagree while ignoring core facts or just plain getting them completely wrong. Which you have done. Multiple times.

You waited a week to reply to that?

by marmot 1333 @, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 15:05 (2923 days ago) @ Ragashingo

[image]

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You waited a week to reply to that?

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 15:56 (2923 days ago) @ marmot 1333
edited by Ragashingo, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 16:22

Well... Life isn't some cartoon musical where I sing a little song and all my insipid dreams magically come true...

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Thank you.

by Kahzgul, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 21:25 (2931 days ago) @ slycrel

- No text -

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Apparently I am, too?

by Kahzgul, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 21:47 (2931 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Seriously dude, you need to relax. I logged on and downloaded a patch. Then I played one game for fun. I noticed some things that seemed different. I thought it would be nice to post it here. Apparently that warranted a witch hunt. You should probably relax, have a glass of water, and take a walk.

I don't know why you get off on being rude to me, but I wish you'd stop. It makes this community a place I don't want to be, and this is a community I've valued for a very, very long time.

I'm trying really hard to be polite. I wish you would do the same.

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I've Had That One For A While.

by Morpheus @, High Charity, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 06:12 (2931 days ago) @ Kahzgul

Used to rep my Titan.

Which reminds me, I need to go to the emblem iPhone and pick up some new sexy ones for my characters.

Anybody notice old weekly crucible bounty pop exotics freq?

by Pyromancy @, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 09:41 (2931 days ago) @ Kahzgul
edited by Pyromancy, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 09:46

I hopped into a PvP match today to experience the glory of the new sandbox. UGH. Not only was my dismal 11 and 13 showing still enough to finish first on my team, but I got a whopping 6 primary kills closer to the "weekly" clash bounty that I've had since last December (only 24 to go!)

This is merely anecdotal as I don't have any data to back it up
Has anybody else noticed that old weekly crucible bounties seem to pop exotics frequently at a higher rate than the current weeks bounty?
I tend to collect them but not necessarily complete them right away. I've had multiple times where the week old or more bounty pops an exotic, but I'm not sure I've ever had the current weeks bounty go up.

My favorite example was the week the "Year 3" exotics were snuck into the game (was it Rise of Iron release week?) I finished the prior weeks pre-patch weekly crucible bounty and upon turn in it popped the new exotic gauntlets which at the time I didn't even know existed.
Since then I've had multiple examples. One week I had 2 prior weeks crucible bounties and both of them popped exotic whereas the current weeks just gave Strange Coin/Motes/whathaveyou. The exotics were duplicates of my current on hand inventory but it was kind of shocking. I've certainly never seen anything like that.

Could there be any strategic benefit to putting the weekly crucible bounty on the back burner and letting it simmer for a week or two?

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Anybody notice old weekly crucible bounty pop exotics freq?

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 11:48 (2931 days ago) @ Pyromancy

Could there be any strategic benefit to putting the weekly crucible bounty on the back burner and letting it simmer for a week or two?

I'll usually do the same thing about picking up a few weeks worth of weekly crucible bounties and then try to knock them out over the weekend. I've been having more and more old and current weekly bounties pop an exotic instead of a legendary. While some would be thrilled with this, I actually get really annoyed by it. I pretty much have every exotic in the game already (missing the astrocyte verse) and I'm only missing 1 or 2 weapon ornaments for those exotics. I really want the chance at a god roll legendary instead of an exotic that I'm going to automatically shard.

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