Just like last week, I figured we should have a thread to discuss our challenge strategies now that we've seen some successes. I'm sure there are multiple approaches that have worked; which ones are the best?

The Templar challenge is to successfully block all his attempted teleports - ensuring the the Templar is downed at his initial spawn location. Prior to each teleport attempt, a circle and pillar of light appear to indicate where at least one guardian must stand to prevent the teleport. Every time a teleport is blocked, new Minotaurs are spawned - this creates a great deal of pressure for the teams to manage DPS on the boss, Add control, and teleport blocking.

The Atheon challenge requires that each Oracle in the past or future ("Venus" or "Mars") is killed by a different guardian each cycle. That means that every member of the fire team must either be teleported or walk through the gateway to kill an oracle before returning and doing damage to Atheon. The team must manage the teleports, oracle targets, and cleansing to succeed. If a guardian kills two oracles, or if an oracle is missed before Atheon is killed, the challenge fails.

The key to our approach to this challenge was to move the Templar with grenades early in the fight to make it easier to block the left teleport location. From the Templar's spawn location, he has a direct line to sight to both teleport locations and can shoot them both easily. By using AoE grenades to push him back a few feet, his line of sight to the left side teleport is broken - there's a pillar that gets in the way and blocks all of his shots at the left teleport location. This allows a single guardian to maintain a block on the left teleport in relative safety (using the relic for extra shielding when required). See someone else's video here for what this looks like from the relic runner's perspective.

We split the fire team up into two groups, with every guardian assigned a specific role. At the start of the fight, a sun singer Warlock would use song of flame and spam solar grenades at the Templar. Other guardians would do the same. The Sun singer and relic holder would manage the left side oracles and enemies, while the rest of the fire team was on the right doing the same. We would continue to build grenade energy and focus on moving the Templar until the sun singer got another super ready for a final grenade spam. During this time, oracles and adds still needed to be killed, but we didn't drop the Templar's shield until we thought we'd moved him back and to the side a little and the sun singer was ready for another grenade volley as soon as his shield dropped.

When everyone was ready, the guardian with the relic would move into position on the left and drop the Templar's shield. The sun singer (and everyone else) would spam AoE grenades (solar and vortex preferred) to move the Templar back. The sun singer and relic runner would remain on the left, with the relic holder blocking teleports and the Sunsinger focused on Add control (with occasional shots at the Templar as allowed).

That left 4 guardians on the right side. One guardian was primarily tasked with blocking the right side teleport and add control (with occasional shots at the Templar as allowed). Two of the remaining three were primarily focused on DPS, while the last was on add control.

DPS was largely via tethers, rockets, and snipers buffed by a WoL bubble. The 3 guardians not blocking the right teleport could group up in the back behind the middle right oracle spawn location - there are pillars and rocks there for cover and a good spot for a bubble and room for add control.

The right side teleport can be blocked by a single guardian standing in the right spot behind the raised area. Splash damage from the Templar can be a problem, but there's a spot where its safe - the biggest danger is being surprised by Minotuars coming up the stairs, or Supplicants getting shots off from behind the back right oracle spawn location. This guardian will be able to get a couple of rockets off at the Templar after blocking each teleport, even though Add control is their primary role when not blocking.

Oracles stop spawning after the Templar's shield is dropped (as long as the teleports are blocked), so that stops being a concern. Every blocked teleport creates new Minotaurs, so the 3 guardians focused on Add control must keep up with them, along with the Supplicants.

As is probably true for all challenges, timing and communication are key here.

There should be at least 4 guardians willing and able to grab the relic as soon as they're teleported - they should call out the teleport location ("Mars" or "Venus") immediately. The relic holder should take out the adds in the center. If it's Venus, they should get help from the other two guardians (golden gun, rocket, sleeper or grenade preferred in that order) for the Minotaur. After killing the adds, the relic holder should cleanse the other two guardians and move to the gateway. The remaining two people teleported should coordinate killing the first two oracles. It's better if each focuses on a single oracle, rather than risking killing a second. "I'll get the first oracle, you get the second" should be enough for them to manage the first two. As soon as these oracles are down, they should get their cleanse and run back though the gateway. Once though, these guardians should take out supplicants and get in position to work on Atheon. They'll slowly be going blind, and may be completely blind before time's vengance starts.

For the three guardians on the outside, they need to move directly to the left or right plate to build the gateway as soon as possible. With three positioned at each plate at the start of the battle, the odds favor at least one being in position already. As they're moving into position, one should call out that they'll stay be the last guardian through the gate. The other two should run through the gateway immediately. The guardian staying behind should focus on killing Supplicants, until he hears one or both of the first two guardians call out that they're back thought the gate. As soon as they're back, the last guardian should run into the gateway.

The two guardians that run through the gateway immediately should be ready to kill the third and fourth Oracle that spawn. They should coordinate who shoots which one (just as with the first two guardians) - either "I'll get the third one" or "I'll get the one on the right" should work. At this point, the relic holder should already be moving toward them to give them a cleanse. As soon as the 3rd and 4th oracles are down and they've gotten a cleanse, they should run back through the gateway. As with the first two, they should get in position for Atheon and kill supplicants while they wait (and while they go blind).

The relic holder kills the fifth oracle with the relic super (which should have charged sometime between the 3rd and 4th oracle), then moves through the gateway to the Atheon DPS position to cleanse the guardians that should be waiting there.

The last guardian through should kill the last oracle (starting time's vengeance) and run back through the gateway to the DPS position (where they'll get their cleanse).

Quick Oracle kills are key. A close Sleeper shot will do it (at range you'll need to finish with a sniper or primary). Rockets work too, but might require a finishing burst from a primary. A full sniper clip will also work, but you should save that ammo for Atheon. Primaries are slow but barely usable.

With good timing, the fireteam will have at least 25 seconds of time's vengeance to DPS Atheon - it starts when the last guardian kills his oracle. Sleepers, Tethers, Snipers, Viking funeral grenades, and nighthawk golden guns work great. The fireteam should be able to down Atheon in two cycles, but if the DPS is low it'll take three.

Atheon DPS location - this is where my friends and I are "wrong", but it works for us. Almost all fire teams move to the floating center platform to DPS Atheon. We've always found that to be a troublesome spot (missed blind jumps mostly), so instead we use the back center of the room (where we originally enter). We pop a Weapons bubble on the teleport side when the titan returns (but not in a position where it will block shots at Supplicants). We keep an eye out for nearby Supplicants during reloads, and kill any that are a risk as we DPS.

The relic holder killing the 5th oracle is something we worked out last night. Strategies on reddit recommend the 3rd oracle, but the super isn't always charged at that point, and the relic runner should really be focused on getting the first two guardians cleansed so they can leave and the last guardian can enter. The first two guardians in via the gateway should get there in time to kill oracle #3 and #4 anyway. The relic runner can focus on getting in position to cleanse the first two guardians through the gateway, and then kill the next oracle that appears (#5). If they miss with the super, the 5th oracle is close enough to be killed by a jump slam (just do it before the last oracle spawns or you'll risk killing both).

This is basically the strategy our group stumbled into.

Our plan was initially to have Cyber run the relic and block the teleports by himself (just like in the video) while the rest of us grouped up on the upper-right side with our Titan bubbles. But we kept getting swarmed by ads and taken out. Eventually, Ottermack said "nuts to this" and set up shop on the lower level (where the fireteam in the video positions themselves) and focused on hitting the Templar while the rest of us scrambled to stay alive. I joined him shortly after and we took the Templar down fairly quickly from there.

You gotta kill 'em to fill the book.

Did anybody? We didn't. They still seem tough.

You gotta kill 'em to fill the book.

Did anybody? We didn't. They still seem tough.

The worst enemy in this objective isn't damage output. It's the Gorgons getting bumped. With this objective, you are a hunter, in the far more conventional sense. Your pray is very skiddish, and will kill without mercy. DO NOT RUSH IT! We found that if you have an ass load Wolfpack Rockets, BIG'Ol lasers, and some viking funeral nades did the trick nicely. DO NOT USE SWORDS!

We were on, with about 98% certainty, the last gorgon. ... I don't want to talk about it. Ugh.

We did. It takes an annoying amount of time because you want to be very, very careful that you're only triggering one at a time. We used two tethers, 2 nighthawk golden guns, and multiple Razelighters to burn them down really quickly - just a couple of seconds. We popped 2 defender bubbles (with alpha lupi for 3 orbs each) whenever possible to keep up a flow of orbs, and waited for full supers before each Gorgon.

Assume there's always another Gorgon. The record book will show a completion icon on the right side of the screen as soon as the last Gorgon dies. We missed the one that hangs out by the right-side "secret" chest - took us a while to find him for the last kill.

The good news is that the Gorgons don't get stronger after every kill, they don't become immune, and they don't respawn. So isolate each one and kill each in turn for the record book.

Oh, and if one of your team jokingly kills himself because he's bored, he'll regret it later when it forces a wipe when everyone else gets to the jumping puzzle and you'll need to repeat the maze with the Gorgons present.

Nothing to see here, Funk.

The good news is...they don't respawn.

That is REALLY good to know. I assumed they were going to be like the original Gorgons and you'd have to kill them all before the first respawn. This actually sounds fairly easy as long as your team has enough patience.

-Disciple

It's better if each focuses on a single oracle, rather than risking killing a second. "I'll get the first oracle, you get the second" should be enough for them to manage the first two. As soon as these oracles are down, they should get their cleanse and run back though the gateway.

In videos I have seen, every currently eligible guardian fires on the first available oracle.

When a player receives the "player has killed an oracle" notification, they exit.

This requires less communication or negotiation about who is killing which oracle, but more watchfulness on the part of each player looking at the notifications.

Watching the video of the encounter done that way, I was given to wonder if that was how Bungie intended it to be handled from the start. I think perhaps they didn't anticipate the idea that groups being teleported would want to get in a cleanse before exiting.

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In videos I have seen, every currently eligible guardian fires on the first available oracle.

When a player receives the "player has killed an oracle" notification, they exit.

This requires less communication or negotiation about who is killing which oracle, but more watchfulness on the part of each player looking at the notifications.

You're correct that it's simpler (and it'll definitely work well), but it can have a high ammo cost if you're using sleepers to one-shot kill oracles - you might end up firing at two or even three oracles before scoring a kill, leaving less ammo for Atheon. Once everyone has a legendary Epilogue to melt oracles, I expect your approach will be the default.

I ran it a couple of times last night with DBO folks, and the call-outs basically resolved to:

"Mars"/"Venus" (called by the relic runner)
"I'll get the first oracle" (called by one of the others teleported)
"I'll be last" (called by one of the people not teleported)
"I'll get the third oracle" (called by whoever gets through the gateway from the outside first)
"I got the 5th oracle" (called by the relic runner)
"Time's Vengeance" (called by the last guardian killing an oracle)
Then a countdown by the relic runner on the remaining buff time

With a Weapons of Light Bubble, constant tethers, and a team full of sleepers, you can down Atheon in a single cycle.

Pay it no mind, I was just poking fun. It's the sort of thing you might do as a joke.

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I recorded this clip during our run last night, and thought it might be helpful for anyone still working on the challenge. We killed Atheon in 2 damage rounds; the first round, I was teleported and took the Relic, the 2nd round I stayed outside and was the last man through to kill an Oracle. So you get a good view of all sides of the encounter, how everyone should be moving, etc.

Nicely done. The Deeply Flawed Raiders will be on tonight if you'd like to help.

Had a great VoG run last night with a group of Challenge-mode first timers. Took about an hour or so, but we ended up defeating Atheon in a single damage round:

Recorded this video of the Templar Challenfe last night. I was acting as the Relic holder. Our strategy was to have the Relic holder (me) and 1 other fireteam member ready at both teleport locations so we could easily block the initial teleport attempt. Then, the Relic holder would take over blocking both points so that all 5 teammates could focus on damaging the boss. Took us only a few tries to succeed. I'd had a tiny bit of experience blocking both teleport locations as the Relic holder, but this was my first successful run.

Recorded this video of the Templar Challenfe last night. I was acting as the Relic holder. Our strategy was to have the Relic holder (me) and 1 other fireteam member ready at both teleport locations so we could easily block the initial teleport attempt. Then, the Relic holder would take over blocking both points so that all 5 teammates could focus on damaging the boss. Took us only a few tries to succeed. I'd had a tiny bit of experience blocking both teleport locations as the Relic holder, but this was my first successful run.

Ha! That templar trap at 1:14 almost ended the run!

Looks like you have the rhythm down!

Recorded this video of the Templar Challenfe last night. I was acting as the Relic holder. Our strategy was to have the Relic holder (me) and 1 other fireteam member ready at both teleport locations so we could easily block the initial teleport attempt. Then, the Relic holder would take over blocking both points so that all 5 teammates could focus on damaging the boss. Took us only a few tries to succeed. I'd had a tiny bit of experience blocking both teleport locations as the Relic holder, but this was my first successful run.

It looks like you're 1 shot multiple times...

Recorded this video of the Templar Challenfe last night. I was acting as the Relic holder. Our strategy was to have the Relic holder (me) and 1 other fireteam member ready at both teleport locations so we could easily block the initial teleport attempt. Then, the Relic holder would take over blocking both points so that all 5 teammates could focus on damaging the boss. Took us only a few tries to succeed. I'd had a tiny bit of experience blocking both teleport locations as the Relic holder, but this was my first successful run.

It looks like you're 1 shot multiple times...

lol... yeah, I cut it real close when I accidentally meleed the Templar, and then at the 1:45 mark I get blasted so hard that you literally can't see my health bar anymore. Some close calls, for sure :)

I was going to say this earlier, but Tsunami beat me to the punch--where was the other fireteam member? Because there was no one nearby the first time, and all those deaths(I'm not even going to call them near-deaths, because that was full on DEAD.) translate into dozens more wipes on any other fireteam. (Especially one where no one's played before.)

No offense, but I wouldn't call this video a solid strategy—you just got lucky.

I was going to say this earlier, but Tsunami beat me to the punch--where was the other fireteam member? Because there was no one nearby the first time,

Are you referring to the guy that was up by the right-side teleport location? He was there on purpose, and for good reason.

When the Templar first tries to teleport, you don't know which side he'll try to go to first. So we had the Relic holder (me) ready to block the left side, and 1 other guardian safely behind a rock, ready to block the right side.

If the Templar goes left (as he did in the video) the Relic holder blocks it and starts taking care of all the teleporter blocks single-handedly. If he teleports right, the other guardian is in place to block it, then the Relic holder takes over the rest of the blocks while the other guardian rejoins the rest of the team to damage the boss.

and all those deaths(I'm not even going to call them near-deaths, because that was full on DEAD.) translate into dozens more wipes on any other fireteam. (Especially one where no one's played before.)

No offense, but I wouldn't call this video a solid strategy—you just got lucky.

It's a totally solid strategy, we were just all new to it. The group was struggling with staying alive through the whole raid, too. A more efficient team can pull it off with no deaths, easily (we only had 2 deaths, and one of them was a sunsinger so he could res).

I took a lot of damage running the Relic because as I said, it was only my 2nd time trying this technique and I didn't have it down yet.

And even with all those shortcomings, we still brought down the Templar in no time. That's what makes this strategy so good; you have 5 guardians, all hitting the Templar with everything they have, without interruption by other enemies. The Relic holder only needs to stay alive for about a minute or so once the team starts hitting the boss. And if you fail and wipe, well it's only been a minute or two so you're not burning lots of time.

All the attempts I witnessed, I honestly don't think we made it past the first Relic shot.

All the attempts I witnessed, I honestly don't think we made it past the first Relic shot.

Was there a specific issue your group was having trouble with?

I've successfully used this strategy, or variations of it, quite a few times with various groups. Cyber learned how to use the Relic to block both teleport locations years ago, so we usually just let him handle that while the rest of us damage the boss. But I was able to get the hang of running the Relic after only a few tries as well (not perfectly, obviously... but well enough to get it done). That's by far the trickiest part, in my experience. The rest of the fireteam doesn't really have anything to worry about except for DPS. The enemies don't bother you much on that front edge of the platform.

So last night, I was running with a pretty competent group that knew about this technique, but had never actually tried it. I wasn't paying close attention to the relic holder's path after we started doing damage (we were busy doing damage, after all), but he died a few times in a row, and I suggested that maybe it was his route. I sent him CyberKN's video from a couple of days ago, and he took the 4 minutes to watch it. "Got it."

We completed on the next run. :)

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