Y'all can disagree all you want. Destiny 2 is pile of f*&%ing garbage. I honestly want my money back. I wish I would have gone with my gut and not gotten it.

D2 PvP is so incredibly bad that I would rather continue to play D1 PvP and we all know that's a steaming pile of poop.

I think I have enjoyed 1 whole evening playing this game since I bought it, and that was more because I was playing with some people who are role models in my profession (I was playing with Facebook engineers who work on React core, for the devs in here who might wonder).

In a short list, here's why I hate D2:

• You took away my favorite guns. Anyone who uses a sniper in PvP is stupid.
  
• You took away power ammo pretty much entirely. There are nights I never get a purple crate. The amount of times I have been shoulder charged by Titans as I try and get the power ammo is unreal.
  
• If you use a hunter in PvP, you're stupid, too. I currently cannot get my recovery above 2. You can't do crap if you're stuck waiting for 10 seconds to get your health back. Thank you Bungie for making my favorite class, which was already weak as f*&%, the most pointless class in the game.
  
• It's harder than ever for me to find someone to play with because the UI is worse and the fireteams are smaller. With no 6v6 option, I'm always playing solo. And solo don't got a f&^%ing chance anymore.

I don't have the kind of time I used to. When I have time to relax, I just want something I can turn on and have a little fun with. D1Y3 was one of the most disappointing times in my short video game life. I should have quit that long ago. D2 is 100x worse.

All of this saddens me SOOOOOO much because despite a crap story, D1Y1 was one of the best times I've ever had. It's when I got to know so many of you. It's a shame that this game makes me so viscerally angry that I don't think I can keep playing.

[*] If you use a hunter in PvP, you're stupid, too. I currently cannot get my recovery above 2. You can't do crap if you're stuck waiting for 10 seconds to get your health back. Thank you Bungie for making my favorite class, which was already weak as f*&%, the most pointless class in the game.

I've managed to get to 3… and this is what the dodge is for. Plus, the reload on dodge is pretty powerful. Especially with heavies.

Yes, but with a 2-primary meta, reloading heavies is the exception, not the rule. Mobility is pointless since you can't reengage in a meaningful amount of time.

Yes, but with a 2-primary meta, reloading heavies is the exception, not the rule. Mobility is pointless since you can't reengage in a meaningful amount of time.

Yes… but if you max out mobility you can sidestep absurdly fast while aiming down sights. That gives you a bigger advantage than you might think. You might even find yourself taking fewer hits in the first place if you are good at moving back and forth. I'd still rather have recovery, but I've had to learn to make the best with what I have.

I'm sorry to see you go, but I hear you on the issues with PvP. It's a slower, more deliberate, and less-able-to-do-something-cool game than D1. And yes, hunters are brutally underpowered in PvP. I played my warlock in blue gear for a while in IB this week and had a ka/d 1.5 higher than on my hunter who I play almost every day.

For a change of pace, and a really fun pvp experience, might I suggest Fortnite? It's a 100 person free for all on a map about a square mile (or more) in size that continually shrinks to drive players together. I've never had more fun being completely terrible at a game. Also, despite needing to match 100 players, it matches more quickly that Destiny matches 8.

You can get it from Io, FWC, or Trials, and at least one of the IB armor is survivalist as well.

I presently run 4/7/4 which I find to be pretty good. It's nothing like the 0/7/7 warlock I fought in trials the other day (holy god), but it's still pretty serviceable.

The problem with high mobility is that this game isn't about closing the gap quickly or otherwise individually maneuvering; it's about team shooting and team positioning. If mobility affected sprint speed, or high mobility allowed you to make jumps (in PvP) that low mobility players could not, that would be useful, but it doesn't do either of those things. Maybe if it actively reduced aim assist on people targeting you, that would be something cool, but again, it doesn't. It just makes you strafe and duck-walk more quickly, which, coincidentally, both warlocks and titans have boots for, making mobility completely unnecessary for those classes.

- No text -

[*] If you use a hunter in PvP, you're stupid, too. I currently cannot get my recovery above 2. You can't do crap if you're stuck waiting for 10 seconds to get your health back. Thank you Bungie for making my favorite class, which was already weak as f*&%, the most pointless class in the game.

I usually sit around Recovery 3 and constantly have to press forward on my attack lest I disengage entirely. PvP as a Hunter is a pain in the ass but I’ve found it to be a very effective platform when paired with decent wesponry, preferably pulse rifles with high RPM and submachine guns. Regularly I’ve carried teams and placed at the top of the match scoreboard, often with a decent K/D to boot. What guns were you running?

[*] If you use a hunter in PvP, you're stupid, too. I currently cannot get my recovery above 2. You can't do crap if you're stuck waiting for 10 seconds to get your health back. Thank you Bungie for making my favorite class, which was already weak as f*&%, the most pointless class in the game.

I usually sit around Recovery 3 and constantly have to press forward on my attack lest I disengage entirely. PvP as a Hunter is a pain in the ass but I’ve found it to be a very effective platform when paired with decent wesponry, preferably pulse rifles with high RPM and submachine guns. Regularly I’ve carried teams and placed at the top of the match scoreboard, often with a decent K/D to boot. What guns were you running?

I'm running 8/5/3. The key is MIDA+StompEE5+run boost from lower arc strider tree. This makes you exceptionally fast. If I don't get the first shot I disengage and run elsewhere. I can out run strikers and stormcallers supers.

The downside compared to my 1/8/5 Titan is that I have trouble with 1:1 straight up firefights. I really need to bounce around and make people miss to get the kill. Titans have it far easier because I can straight up just out shoot my opponent. This really reminds me of D1's initial crucible mode, where Suros toting Strikers were king. If anything panic smash is worse now that they can miss and turn around and chase you.

I agree I'd like to see some changes to Hunters to even things out. The Arc super is the easiest for other players to avoid or counter, and has minimal reward. The grenade choices are lack luster, and the melee ability flat out doesn't work in PVP.

But this game is mostly long range right now. Side Arms/Submachineguns make getting in close very dangerous. In this arena you can use mobility to get on the sides and flank.

Y'all can disagree all you want. Destiny 2 is pile of f*&%ing garbage.

I disagree. So do a lot of others.

It's a shame that this game makes me so viscerally angry that I don't think I can keep playing.

Then for the love of the Traveler, don't think about not playing it. Stop playing! And I don't say that in any kind of mean way. The few times we played together in the past year or two you never seemed particularly happy with Destiny. Certainly the Y3 / D2 shifts left you completely high and dry.

I really thing you should go out and find a game with multiplayer you enjoy. Being viscerally angry at a game is no good for you and no good for us because you will eventually get strong disagreement and eventual resentment if you keep playing and keep complaining about playing. (Not saying you're doing that just talking about where it would lead if you did.)

You don't have to leave us completely behind. I like to think we're a neat community who will appreciate stories of your exploits in other games. Looking back across the boards here we've collectively enjoyed things like Life is Strange, Witcher 3, Titanfall 2, and more. Go out, have fun, then come back and tell us about it. (Just don't pop back in to tell us how much our favorite game sucks. That too will be no fun for anyone..)

And finally, if you do end up drifting away, remember that you were part of the DBO fireteam that very nearly did the impossible, got matched up with the DBO Bungie Bounty team, and won. That was an awesome moment and it was great to have you with us. (Beorn still gripes about you out sniping him :p)

Y'all can disagree all you want. Destiny 2 is pile of f*&%ing garbage. I honestly want my money back. I wish I would have gone with my gut and not gotten it.

D2 PvP is so incredibly bad that I would rather continue to play D1 PvP and we all know that's a steaming pile of poop.

I think I have enjoyed 1 whole evening playing this game since I bought it, and that was more because I was playing with some people who are role models in my profession (I was playing with Facebook engineers who work on React core, for the devs in here who might wonder).

In a short list, here's why I hate D2:

• You took away my favorite guns. Anyone who uses a sniper in PvP is stupid.

Honestly, I don't think they took away enough D1 weapons.

[*] You took away power ammo pretty much entirely. There are nights I never get a purple crate. The amount of times I have been shoulder charged by Titans as I try and get the power ammo is unreal.

I know that everyone has their own experience, but Power Ammo respawns fairly often, and certainly often enough for you to be able to get at least some. I never go for Heavy unless I'm on the enemy's side and I want to deny it from them, or ours is at risk of being stolen, and I end up with at least one instance of Heavy per match.
Sounds like you're playing with Randoms (and worse, Titans), so running into jerks is more common, but the ammo has a timer that you can check periodically. I think you should play with fellow DBOers, since you can coordinate ammo distribution better.

[*] If you use a hunter in PvP, you're stupid, too. I currently cannot get my recovery above 2. You can't do crap if you're stuck waiting for 10 seconds to get your health back. Thank you Bungie for making my favorite class, which was already weak as f*&%, the most pointless class in the game.

Hey, I'm a Warlock, so I know all about tanking damage and re-engaging quickly... But I ran Hunter almost exclusively in this Iron Banner, and I could argue that I died far less because of the higher mobility; I certainly wasn't afraid of any roaming Supers, especially not those shield Titans:

Hunters just have different strengths, and some that the other classes have to live without, so low Recovery isn't a huge trade-off. I think you just need to run a different class for a while to really appreciate the things that you can do as a Hunter, regardless of whether your health comes back instantly or not.

[*] It's harder than ever for me to find someone to play with because the UI is worse and the fireteams are smaller. With no 6v6 option, I'm always playing solo. And solo don't got a f&^%ing chance anymore.

This really sounds like a self-imposed issue, though. I'd hate to use anecdotal evidence from a different console, especially since I don't know what your friends list looks like, so I won't say that it is objectively easy to find people to play with, but I mean, if you insist on playing Crucible, is it really that difficult to send a Fireteam invite to competent teammates? Even if you lose a match, maybe one of your teammates did well, and maybe he's hoping that he didn't have to gamble by playing Solo every match as well.

Send fireteam invites. This shouldn't be thought of as taboo.

[/list]

I don't have the kind of time I used to. When I have time to relax, I just want something I can turn on and have a little fun with. D1Y3 was one of the most disappointing times in my short video game life. I should have quit that long ago. D2 is 100x worse.

I think you should take a break from Destiny. I recently hit a moment of discouragement with D2. All three characters are 304, and I had every single weapon and armor piece that I care to have. What did I do? Rather than hopping on and being less than excited, I started a new playthrough of Horizon Zero Dawn, and I totally didn't have a desire to play D2 at all until Iron Banner rolled around.

You don't have to play Destiny!
The game is certainly leagues better than D1 at not making you feel as behind as D1 did at its worst. Play some other games.

Witcher 3 Complete Edition is $20 right now on Xbox. It's a ridiculously good deal, but if you really don't have that kind of time, and want something that you can just hop on and play real quick, Battlefront (with all DLC) is $4.50 right now. It's fun, not that sweaty, and you can probably convince a few friends to grab it at that price.

Again, you don't have to be angry or upset. If Destiny 2 isn't giving you the experience that you want, then don't play it. You can still hop into Party chat with folks if you want, but don't force yourself to do anything that you don't want to do.

I for one will hate to see you go, but I would rather you spend your time on something enjoyable! If it’s not D2, maybe it will be D3. My household has a lot of good memories thanks to you, and just last night Isaac asked if I’d gamed with you recently.

As for a hunter in PVP, you know full well that I ONLY run a hunter. I felt pretty weak until I made some adjustments to both my armor and play style. I boosted my resilience and gave up some mobility/recovery, going in at 4/7/3. In my experience this change alone made the most difference in feeling like I could compete. I’ve almost given up on hand cannons in PVP in favor of a scout/auto rifle combination. I use knucklehead radar and play the mid-range game, bugging out if things get too close. I don’t get the most “defeats”, but I don’t get killed as often either. My k/d is consistently positive and usually the highest on the team. Objectively, this is vastly better than D1, and I actually feel much more capable in D2.

That said, I wholeheartedly agree with your frustration regarding sniper rifles. After hand cannons, they are my favorite weapon, and I very much feel like I never get a chance to use them in PVP. On the rare occasion that I do get purple ammo, I usually do so simply to prevent the other team from picking it up for themselves.

I understand your disappointment, and while I hope you stick it out, I hope even more that you find a gaming outlet that’s enjoyable. If you do, let us know so we can check it out!

- No text -

- No text -

You can get it from Io, FWC, or Trials, and at least one of the IB armor is survivalist as well.

I presently run 4/7/4 which I find to be pretty good.

Yeah, these are all good sources, but you don't even need them to bump recovery. My crucible build uses lots of mods on the following gear to get a 7/4/4

Head:
Foetracer (exotic) or Gensym Knight Casque (IO)

Arms:
Dead End Cure (generic legendary drop)

Chest:
Road Complex AA1 (generic legendary drop)

Legs:
Exodus Down Strides (Nessus)

Cape:
Binary Phoenix Cloak (Crucible)

All that to say, you can get a diversity of builds using lots of different gear by using mods.

- No text -

Have you tried Titanfall 2? Malagate is usually up to play that (I would be too, but I'm away from my xbox for another month or so probably) and I've had a lot of fun with that game. Plus you should be able to pick it up for pretty cheap ($30 on the xbox store, probably you can get it on sale somewhere). You can also use the coop mode to build your skills a bit before jumping into the full multiplayer modes.

[*] You took away my favorite guns. Anyone who uses a sniper in PvP is stupid.
[*] You took away power ammo pretty much entirely. There are nights I never get a purple crate. The amount of times I have been shoulder charged by Titans as I try and get the power ammo is unreal.
[*] If you use a hunter in PvP, you're stupid, too. I currently cannot get my recovery above 2. You can't do crap if you're stuck waiting for 10 seconds to get your health back. Thank you Bungie for making my favorite class, which was already weak as f*&%, the most pointless class in the game.
[*] It's harder than ever for me to find someone to play with because the UI is worse and the fireteams are smaller. With no 6v6 option, I'm always playing solo. And solo don't got a f&^%ing chance anymore.

the fuck are you even talking about?
like I understand missing some guns (Zhalo Supercell will forever be my raifu), I understand solo play being a bit harder given that most people have learned to team-shoot, but the rest is baffling

• snipers are still good
  
• power ammo spawns more frequently and in more places at once than heavy ammo did
  
• Hunters can do quite well-- you know you can run away or hide, right? it's not a fencing competition or something, no one will call you out on it
  
• I don't see what 4v4 has to do with not having someone to play with-- unless you were consistently the 5th or 6th person in the group, in which case the problem is that people don't want to play with you that much

also all of these problems seem to be about PvP, and if that was all you were getting out of Destiny (1 or 2) then you were already missing out

Hi. I'm the PvE guy. I FUCKING LOVE D2 PVP. It may be because I have been so far, over all, been kicking some serious casual ass, or whatever magic Bungie is using to match make, that has made basically all my games neck and neck edge to the seat feats of glee. Whatever. So far I've had a blast. I think the biggest thing as been, so far, I've not gone against try-hards, who make the game more then what it is. I just want to play, win or lose. Whatever. YEEEE-HA!

In a short list, here's why I hate D2:

• You took away my favorite guns. Anyone who uses a sniper in PvP is stupid.

AKA - Change is hard? There are some pretty boss PVP guns out there, that aren't Exotics. Even if it is Mida, go have fun!

[*] You took away power ammo pretty much entirely. There are nights I never get a purple crate. The amount of times I have been shoulder charged by Titans as I try and get the power ammo is unreal.

I have had the opposite problem. I can most of time get the heavy. If someone is by it I leave them be. If no one is, I go for it. If a foe is gong for it, I try and stop them. If someone on my team tries to steal it from me when I got there first?... well fuck that guy. Ass.

[*] If you use a hunter in PvP, you're stupid, too. I currently cannot get my recovery above 2. You can't do crap if you're stuck waiting for 10 seconds to get your health back. Thank you Bungie for making my favorite class, which was already weak as f*&%, the most pointless class in the game.

My Hunter is flat out My PvP Main. Have you read my Not a Review Beta Post? I almost feel like I've seen this before.

[*] It's harder than ever for me to find someone to play with because the UI is worse and the fireteams are smaller. With no 6v6 option, I'm always playing solo. And solo don't got a f&^%ing chance anymore.
[/list]

I play exclusively solo (not that I wouldn't mind some DBO Backup), and as mentioned most my games have been par after par. It's been blast.

All in all - DON'T PLAY DESTINY 2 LIKE DESTINY 1! That's in whole by the way. PVE & PVP.

To that's the 2¢ I have to give, Good Luck.

Edit: Added gfycat (.mp4) Links and embedded images. I've been collecting this stuff for... something. You may see it again in some form.

snipers are still good

Why would you choose a skill weapon when you can you use a no-skill guaranteed kill weapon like a rocket launcher or a sword? Especially since the penalty is made higher by the fact that you took that ammo from the rest of your team. When only one person can get power ammo at a time, it's not only that _you_ got power ammo, but you _denied_ your teammates that ammo, who may in fact be better with that ammo than you. Your choice to even pick up power ammo is potentially a bad choice for your team.

power ammo spawns more frequently and in more places at once than heavy ammo did

Sure, but with only one person able to get it at a time, there can literally be whole nights I don't get power ammo unless I both sit on the crate and don't get shoulder charged or meleed out of it. I'm not kidding. Maybe people in the PNW are particularly selfish about the power ammo, but because I've been pushed out of getting power ammo so often, I've kind of stopped wanting to even try. It is ridiculous that this is even a mechanic.

Hunters can do quite well-- you know you can run away or hide, right? it's not a fencing competition or something, no one will call you out on it

Of course I can hide, and it's what I do. But without any recovery I fail to finish off the majority of my engagements. My kill ratio is significantly lower than it was in D1. Without teammates around to clean up, I make no progress. I went from a 1.31 K/D in D1 to last few nights averaging a 0.67 KA/D in D2.

I'd like to also point out, I think something significantly changed between now and the beta. The beta I had a couple games where I went Unbroken. I didn't feel overly outclassed. Now, I just feel like not only is my class too weak, but I just don't have the gear to play. I don't have the time I used to. I don't have the exotics y'all are referring to, I don't really have the nice things yet. IMO, this shouldn't matter in quick play crucible so much.

I don't see what 4v4 has to do with not having someone to play with-- unless you were consistently the 5th or 6th person in the group, in which case the problem is that people don't want to play with you that much

Y'all really don't understand how challenging being on the West coast can be for finding people to play with? I don't get on until at least 8-8:30 pm my time on a weekday. Anyone who lives East of me is already 1) done for the night. 2) about to be done, or 3) has a full fireteam because they've been playing a while.

You add the FTB in there, I just can't get on when most things are scheduled (they often start before I'm home from work), nor do I have that long to play as of late. I get maybe an hour or 2 here or there.

I can think of 5 west coast people on Xbox that I've played with regularly. If they aren't on, I'm generally f*&$ed.

- No text -

- No text -

I have the game, and maybe I should play it a bit more. Felt like there were a lot of mechanics I had to learn, steep learning curve to get up to speed for PvP.

I still run with a bunch of folks that all have it, we could definitely get some games together. And if you're worried about getting the mechanics down, there's a coop wave-based mode if you want to spend time in multi levelling your gear but not getting mercilessly merked.

Any time you're on and you see me, feel free to join up or invite me to something. I hate that you're so frustrated with D2, but we can always have fun in something else.

~M

- No text -

Occasionallly, I see you playing alone and I don't send an invite because I feel that I drag you down. But maybe having a teammate you can communicate with offsets having to carry someone who's worse than you are... so maybe I should just stop worrying and shoot you that invite. I'm sorry. (If you're REALLY done, this is moot - but if you wanna give it another try, I'm down. ;) )

I've been playing recently with a group that is at least a tier above me. I used to hate this; in Halo, and in D1, it meant that even if we won, I had a shitty game and my K/D was always below 1, and my teammates all had a sweatier game than if I hadn't been there. D2 favors team shooting so much that if I'm careful, I can contribute positively to my team. And when you're playing with friends, the whole "can I grab power ammo? SHOULD I grab power ammo?" thing gets less relevant; for the most part, people are willing to give it up if someone asks for it. If I'm having one of those crappy games where I can't even get a kill with ROCKETS, I'll stop picking it up altogether; why waste it? But for the most part, heavy ammo is a guaranteed 2-3 kills for me, which makes it worthwhile for my teammates to let me have it. :)

Also, if you've got actual support, you grabbing sniper ammo is a GOOD thing. You're great with a sniper, and I remember more than one D2 game where you totally shut down a capture point for the enemy team with it. I can see how, if you're playing with randoms, this might not happen (because 1) they're not covering your flanks, and 2) they might not even notice what cap point you're covering)... but when playing with friends, you're definitely not wasting power ammo by grabbing sniper bullets. THAT I can say with certainty. ;)

Botttom line: if you're really totally unhappy, you should quit playing. If the reasons for your unhappiness might be alleviated by playing with teammates... I'm on ALMOST every night, and I'd be proud to be carried to victory by you. :)

Occasionallly, I see you playing alone and I don't send an invite because I feel that I drag you down. But maybe having a teammate you can communicate with offsets having to carry someone who's worse than you are... so maybe I should just stop worrying and shoot you that invite. I'm sorry. (If you're REALLY done, this is moot - but if you wanna give it another try, I'm down. ;) )

I've been playing recently with a group that is at least a tier above me. I used to hate this; in Halo, and in D1, it meant that even if we won, I had a shitty game and my K/D was always below 1, and my teammates all had a sweatier game than if I hadn't been there. D2 favors team shooting so much that if I'm careful, I can contribute positively to my team. And when you're playing with friends, the whole "can I grab power ammo? SHOULD I grab power ammo?" thing gets less relevant; for the most part, people are willing to give it up if someone asks for it. If I'm having one of those crappy games where I can't even get a kill with ROCKETS, I'll stop picking it up altogether; why waste it? But for the most part, heavy ammo is a guaranteed 2-3 kills for me, which makes it worthwhile for my teammates to let me have it. :)

Also, if you've got actual support, you grabbing sniper ammo is a GOOD thing. You're great with a sniper, and I remember more than one D2 game where you totally shut down a capture point for the enemy team with it. I can see how, if you're playing with randoms, this might not happen (because 1) they're not covering your flanks, and 2) they might not even notice what cap point you're covering)... but when playing with friends, you're definitely not wasting power ammo by grabbing sniper bullets. THAT I can say with certainty. ;)

Botttom line: if you're really totally unhappy, you should quit playing. If the reasons for your unhappiness might be alleviated by playing with teammates... I'm on ALMOST every night, and I'd be proud to be carried to victory by you. :)

This inspires me to stop doing the solo thing. Thanks, Claude.

I know you were lukewarm about D2 before release, but I was hopeful you'd find something to like.

I'm sorry that you didn't because we'll miss playing with you. Stick around and stay in touch.

snipers are still good

Why would you choose a skill weapon when you can you use a no-skill guaranteed kill weapon like a rocket launcher or a sword?

you do realize those were both in the first game, right?

Especially since the penalty is made higher by the fact that you took that ammo from the rest of your team. When only one person can get power ammo at a time, it's not only that _you_ got power ammo, but you _denied_ your teammates that ammo, who may in fact be better with that ammo than you. Your choice to even pick up power ammo is potentially a bad choice for your team.

OK?

power ammo spawns more frequently and in more places at once than heavy ammo did

Sure, but with only one person able to get it at a time, there can literally be whole nights I don't get power ammo unless I both sit on the crate and don't get shoulder charged or meleed out of it. I'm not kidding. Maybe people in the PNW are particularly selfish about the power ammo, but because I've been pushed out of getting power ammo so often, I've kind of stopped wanting to even try. It is ridiculous that this is even a mechanic.

it must be the region or the skill level or something because that never happens to me
I agree making it so only one person can pull power ammo is dumb, but I think you're blowing it out of proportion a bit

Hunters can do quite well-- you know you can run away or hide, right? it's not a fencing competition or something, no one will call you out on it

Of course I can hide, and it's what I do. But without any recovery I fail to finish off the majority of my engagements. My kill ratio is significantly lower than it was in D1. Without teammates around to clean up, I make no progress. I went from a 1.31 K/D in D1 to last few nights averaging a 0.67 KA/D in D2.

well unless you're getting paid to play I think K/D is secondary to having fun-- otherwise what are you playing for, to rub someone's nose in how good you are? (I mean really, that would be childish, not to mention pointless since no one knows or cares who you are)

I'd like to also point out, I think something significantly changed between now and the beta. The beta I had a couple games where I went Unbroken. I didn't feel overly outclassed.

really? I feel like it's gotten slightly better from the beta

Now, I just feel like not only is my class too weak, but I just don't have the gear to play. I don't have the time I used to. I don't have the exotics y'all are referring to, I don't really have the nice things yet. IMO, this shouldn't matter in quick play crucible so much.

well I am sorry about that

I don't see what 4v4 has to do with not having someone to play with-- unless you were consistently the 5th or 6th person in the group, in which case the problem is that people don't want to play with you that much

Y'all really don't understand how challenging being on the West coast can be for finding people to play with? I don't get on until at least 8-8:30 pm my time on a weekday. Anyone who lives East of me is already 1) done for the night. 2) about to be done, or 3) has a full fireteam because they've been playing a while.

You add the FTB in there, I just can't get on when most things are scheduled (they often start before I'm home from work), nor do I have that long to play as of late. I get maybe an hour or 2 here or there.

I can think of 5 west coast people on Xbox that I've played with regularly. If they aren't on, I'm generally f*&$ed.

honestly I play by myself 90% of the time, partly for the same reason, but I also tend to prefer being by myself; I'm sorry you can't enjoy it as much

You add the FTB in there, I just can't get on when most things are scheduled (they often start before I'm home from work), nor do I have that long to play as of late. I get maybe an hour or 2 here or there.

That cuts both ways. I wish I was on the west coast so I had people to play with in the early evening and get to bed at a decent time.

you do realize those were both in the first game, right?

Yes, but being in different slots is crucial. Good special weapon skills could be a counter to heavy weapon skills. When special ammo was reduced in D1, it increased how powerful heavy weapons were because there were fewer weapons capable of beating the TTK of a player with heavies.

One of the things a sniper was good at was taking out supers and heavy weapons at a distance. Nothing gave me more pleasure than shutting down a Golden Gun or sniping someone with rockets to than jump out of the way of my impending death.

Now that they are in the same slot, you should choose the one that guarantees more kills. Rocket Launcher > Sniper now.

Of course I can hide, and it's what I do. But without any recovery I fail to finish off the majority of my engagements. My kill ratio is significantly lower than it was in D1. Without teammates around to clean up, I make no progress. I went from a 1.31 K/D in D1 to last few nights averaging a 0.67 KA/D in D2.

well unless you're getting paid to play I think K/D is secondary to having fun-- otherwise what are you playing for, to rub someone's nose in how good you are? (I mean really, that would be childish, not to mention pointless since no one knows or cares who you are)

For many of us, having an external measure (K/D) is an easy way to monitor progress. If that doesn't work for you, that's fine - but you should probably be aware that there are plenty of good reasons for keeping track of objective measurements that have absolutely nothing to do with rubbing anyone's nose in anything.

I compete with ME more than anyone else. I make a conscious effort to get better most of the time I play. (I can see the results when I stop doing that. And I have less fun when I stop doing that.)

I think it comes down to being aware that not everyone enjoys the same thing you enjoy, or (maybe more acccurately) receives enjoyment from the same aspects of the game that you do.

The game is great. Especially with a party. In most lobbies you are able to play it like a Call of Duty game and you'll do fine. The game gets much more fun the faster you go, though.

well unless you're getting paid to play I think K/D is secondary to having fun-- otherwise what are you playing for, to rub someone's nose in how good you are? (I mean really, that would be childish, not to mention pointless since no one knows or cares who you are)

Just so we're clear, my use of the K/D stat has absolutely nothing to do with bragging or other people. There's nothing childish about using a stat to mark your own progression.

I don't know about other people, but I typically don't have fun at things I suck at. I'm not having fun if I die a lot more often than I get kills. So, I'm not watching it like a pro, but I'm pretty aware of, at any given time, what my K/D is.

- No text -

Of course I can hide, and it's what I do. But without any recovery I fail to finish off the majority of my engagements. My kill ratio is significantly lower than it was in D1. Without teammates around to clean up, I make no progress. I went from a 1.31 K/D in D1 to last few nights averaging a 0.67 KA/D in D2.

well unless you're getting paid to play I think K/D is secondary to having fun-- otherwise what are you playing for, to rub someone's nose in how good you are? (I mean really, that would be childish, not to mention pointless since no one knows or cares who you are)

For many of us, having an external measure (K/D) is an easy way to monitor progress. If that doesn't work for you, that's fine - but you should probably be aware that there are plenty of good reasons for keeping track of objective measurements that have absolutely nothing to do with rubbing anyone's nose in anything.

I get that, and I do look at how well I've done in a match, I'm just saying if someone makes it about the K/D instead of enjoyment (not saying he is, just that I know some people do) I think they're missing the point

I compete with ME more than anyone else. I make a conscious effort to get better most of the time I play. (I can see the results when I stop doing that. And I have less fun when I stop doing that.)

It's not actually a new one, you've said things like that before, and I thought I understood why. You have mentioned challenging yourself to do things, whether it be to solo a nightfall or do well in crucible or something. Again, I thought I understood why, but I didn't. When I challenge myself in games, it's not a competition with myself, but just because I like the game and need to come up with something to do.

Like, for example, Halo. I wanted to get better at speedrunning just because there was nothing else to do in the game. When you have said things like that, I thought it was an excuse to play the game, not a major aspect of why you play.

I have never ONCE felt like I was held back by you, for I not only think you are awesome, but I am not _that_ great. Please feel free to ask me to play at any time. If I ever decline, it's always because I'm signing off soon.

That applies to everyone. If I don't join your invite, it's cause 1) I just started a match and will get back to you at my next available moment, or 2) I'm signing off soon.

In truth, I do not know who I consider myself better than at PvP. That's not how I've ever measured myself. Instead, I mostly know who's better than me. And I won't share who I know to be better than me. Won't give 'em that ego boost :)

I've never really quit anything in my life. Too stubborn. I'll be on tonight, trying to figure out how to have fun playing D2. Please halp!

In terms of fun, anyway. Couldn't care less about story.

- No text -

- No text -

- No text -

Even the glorious Messenger wouldn't have stood a chance against pre-HoW Hawkmoon.

Even the glorious Messenger wouldn't have stood a chance against pre-HoW Hawkmoon.

That may be true... but I’m not sure :) Even in its prime, I don’t think Hawkmoon was quite as easy to use as the messenger. You literally just aim for center mass, and the inherent recoil pattern + headseeker would take care of the rest. 2-shot kills all day long. Would’ve been fun to see those two Uber-weapons go toe-to-toe in their respective primes :)

Even the glorious Messenger wouldn't have stood a chance against pre-HoW Hawkmoon.

That may be true... but I’m not sure :) Even in its prime, I don’t think Hawkmoon was quite as easy to use as the messenger.

Correct. And that's why I loved it; you actually had to be skilled to use it. You had to be able to land those headshots, and quickly, because at close range, TLW and Auto rifles could tear you up, and at long range, Thorn would bleed you out with body shots. If you were skilled enough, you could drop snipers, and you would be occasionally rewarded for your accuracy with the Magic Bullet (AKA the most satisfying shot in all of Destiny).

And then Bungie nerfed its accuracy, then its range, then they nerfed them some more when then Messenger was released. With the end of Year 1, the Magic Bullet was removed, the damage reduced, and even the algorithm for Luck in the Chamber felt nerfed.

You literally just aim for center mass, and the inherent recoil pattern + headseeker would take care of the rest. 2-shot kills all day long. Would’ve been fun to see those two Uber-weapons go toe-to-toe in their respective primes :)

Yeah, Messenger did make things pretty easy...

But Hawkmoon made them fun.

And in the end, fun wins out for me. :P

I'm so, so saddened that Headseeker is gone in D2. I had a Grasp of Malok with Headseeker and Perfect Balance that was simply godly. I think it made me a worse player overall, because I got used to AIMING for body shots. Now I'm playing a game where the difference between body shots and headshots isn't 50%, it's way more than that... and I lose fights every time I forget to START with headshots.

- No text -

The problem is not that the perk doesn't exist. The problem is that the damage difference between body and headshots has changed so much between D1 and D2 that Headseeker is no longer a viable perk.

Ahh. That actually makes substantially more sense. I am not and have not ever really been a pulse rifle sort of person. I suppose it makes sense that the damage would change, but making it basically of null use seems wasted.

Ahh. That actually makes substantially more sense. I am not and have not ever really been a pulse rifle sort of person. I suppose it makes sense that the damage would change, but making it basically of null use seems wasted.

The difference now usually works such that you still need the same number of bursts to kill with headseeker that you would need without headseeker. You just have a little more room for error (you can miss a couple more bullets and still get the kill).

But in D1, certain weapons (The Messenger in particular) went from being a 3-shot kill down to a 2-shot kill, which is a substantial change in time-to-kill. God, it was glorious :D

Ahh. That actually makes substantially more sense. I am not and have not ever really been a pulse rifle sort of person. I suppose it makes sense that the damage would change, but making it basically of null use seems wasted.

The difference now usually works such that you still need the same number of bursts to kill with headseeker that you would need without headseeker. You just have a little more room for error (you can miss a couple more bullets and still get the kill).

But in D1, certain weapons (The Messenger in particular) went from being a 3-shot kill down to a 2-shot kill, which is a substantial change in time-to-kill. God, it was glorious :D

I wish they'd bring Jade Rabbit over, because
1) It looks awesome.
2) Xbox people never got a fair chance to enjoy it.
3) It's basically a Scout Rifle with Headseeker (Except the Headseeker perk also refills the Mag).

Even firing while MIDA jerks pinged you with their High Caliber rounds helped stack damage for the headshot if you were landing body shots, which pretty much guaranteed a three-shot kill as long as one of those shots was a headshot...