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No, I liked it too.

As always seems to be the case, I wish it was deeper. Honestly, this is a story I’d have loved to see explored in a full length campaign. But maybe that’s just because I like the Vex and their aesthetic, and also love the simulation and time travel stuff. I feel like Osiris was wasted a bit.

So, I walked away from the CoO campaign feeling like I don't really need to play another Destiny campaign ever again. And no, I don't mean that in the ragingly negative way that it sounds... because I found the campaign fun. I'm still piecing together my thoughts on why I feel this way. But to me, Bungie's storytelling has just become so surface level, so unsatisfying, that I almost want to see what would happen if they just got it out of the way. Stop treating it like something that matters, because it SO does not.

Overall, CoO felt a lot like a mini version of D2; mostly fun campaign that doesn't live up to the glory days of Bungie's past, with a bare-bones "end game" that feels lacking compared to the later days of D1. It feels stuck in an awkward middle ground to me.

Focus would help. Just like Des2ny, we were bouncing around from location to location needlessly. Why couldn't every mission have been on Mercury? Why didn't Ikora join us as an AI companion like the Arbiter / Marines? Those two changes would have helped so much.

Perhaps. The larger issues to me (in terms of story) is that everything is told, and none of it is shown. Ikora tells us she’s grown or changed, while displaying no evidence of either. Osiris is held up as the most notorious and powerful Guardian who ever lived, yet nothing he says or does seems controversial, and he waits until we’ve done all the heavy lifting before showing up to help.

None of this is a huge deal... the bigger deal to me is that Osiris is a character that has been hugely significant in Destiny’s lore. He’s been whispered about and hinted at for 3 years. And now that he finally steps into the spotlight, he is utterly squandered and wasted. One of the recurring comments about Destiny is that there is all this great backstory and lore... if only it were actually in the game! But to me, CoO shows that Bungie is (at the moment) incapable of putting any of that material into the game in a way that remotely lives up to its potential. And THAT realization prevents me from caring about any of it. None of it matters, and at this rate none of it will ever matter.

Again, I know this sounds very negative, and that doesn’t reflect my overall opinion of the expansion. Because it’s still Destiny, and playing Destiny with friends is a blast. It’s just sad that after 2 full games and 6 story-based expansions, I’m still waiting for Bungie to use this universe to tell a story worth caring about.

I honestly think the lack of friendly AI characters is what separates the two the most from me. As you said, why can't I fight next to Ikora and Osiris? Having these characters only ever be voices on the radio really hurts my relationship with them and my ability to care about them. Would anyone like the Arbiter if he just spoke to you on the comms the entire time during Halo 3, rather than fighting by your side? I wouldn't.

This also gives you way more flexibility with cinematics to tell the story, where characters can talk to each other and work things out during missions. That is, assuming they give our guardian a voice…

Despite having a much more grand and epic lore, Destiny feels far more mundane than Halo in a lot of respects. Lack of friendly AI helping fight makes it feel like my Guardian is literally the only one doing anything ever. The Master Chief was the hero of Halo, for sure, but it never felt like he was the only one accomplishing anything. That's not true in Destiny, where it feels like everyone else might as well just not exist, because my Guardian does literally every single thing of any importance.

Another aspect of the world not feeling 'alive'. If you're the only one doing anything, then clearly the world was built only for you…

No, I liked it too.

As always seems to be the case, I wish it was deeper. Honestly, this is a story I’d have loved to see explored in a full length campaign. But maybe that’s just because I like the Vex and their aesthetic, and also love the simulation and time travel stuff. I feel like Osiris was wasted a bit.

So, I walked away from the CoO campaign feeling like I don't really need to play another Destiny campaign ever again. And no, I don't mean that in the ragingly negative way that it sounds... because I found the campaign fun. I'm still piecing together my thoughts on why I feel this way. But to me, Bungie's storytelling has just become so surface level, so unsatisfying, that I almost want to see what would happen if they just got it out of the way. Stop treating it like something that matters, because it SO does not.

Overall, CoO felt a lot like a mini version of D2; mostly fun campaign that doesn't live up to the glory days of Bungie's past, with a bare-bones "end game" that feels lacking compared to the later days of D1. It feels stuck in an awkward middle ground to me.

Is the story of Destiny 2 or Curse of Osiris really any worse or more shallow than anything in Halo? I like Halo's story, but I don't think that it's that compelling on its own. It's good because it gave us tons of cool moments and characters ("Tank beats everything!").

I'm a little bit of an outlier around these parts in that I don't think Halo's story was that great in its own right... but I do think it was very effective in terms of how it drove the player through the campaign. First of all, we always had a clear idea of what we were doing and why we were doing it. 2nd, while none of the characters were particularly deep, they had believable and relatable reactions and motivations. They behaved in ways that made sense given the context of the situation. And in many ways, their words and actions were a reflection or extension of the player's thoughts. Characters would express feelings of wonder upon seeing a Halo ring for the first time. They would greet 117 with relief and renewed courage. They would attack the Covenant with the anger and aggression you would expect to see from marines who's home had just been attacked or destroyed.

On both the points I've outlined above, Destiny 1 failed. Destiny 2 is an improvement as far as point "A" is concerned, but it is still mostly a failure as far as point "B" is concerned. Characters talk to each other as if they are doing anything, but they generally aren't (or if they are, it is invisible to the player). Zavala and what's-her-name talk about ships and scouts and patrols all over Titan, but there's never any sign of any of it. Zavala and Ikora have their own "arcs" where they overcome their doubts and fears, through absolutely no action of their own. They're depressed, they see us show up and do everything, and suddenly they go back to acting exactly the way they would have acted before D2 began.

Nowhere in Destiny 1 or 2 is there a moment that comes close to producing a sense of loss or urgency the way Fohammer's death or the crash landing of your escape pod or failure to save Keys does in Halo. Never does Destiny's story make me ready to run screaming into enemy forces the way the intro to the Silent Cartographer or the landing of the Forward Unto Dawn on the Arc does. In fact, when Destiny sets up moments that have the potential to carry such weight, the writing actively works against it. Cayde gets his arm blown off for comic effect. Views of the grand vistas on Nessus are undercut by one-liners about "Vex Milk".

Didn't somebody here once post a video talking about how the Marvel movies have started undercutting their most important character scenes by undercutting them with untimely attempts at humor? Yeah. Destiny 2 does that a lot.

I honestly think the lack of friendly AI characters is what separates the two the most from me. As you said, why can't I fight next to Ikora and Osiris? Having these characters only ever be voices on the radio really hurts my relationship with them and my ability to care about them. Would anyone like the Arbiter if he just spoke to you on the comms the entire time during Halo 3, rather than fighting by your side? I wouldn't.

Agreed.

Despite having a much more grand and epic lore, Destiny feels far more mundane than Halo in a lot of respects. Lack of friendly AI helping fight makes it feel like my Guardian is literally the only one doing anything ever. The Master Chief was the hero of Halo, for sure, but it never felt like he was the only one accomplishing anything. That's not true in Destiny, where it feels like everyone else might as well just not exist, because my Guardian does literally every single thing of any importance.

That's part of what I'm getting at regarding storytelling in Destiny and Destiny 2. What is supposedly going on is just so disjointed from what we actually see in-game.

No, I liked it too.

As always seems to be the case, I wish it was deeper. Honestly, this is a story I’d have loved to see explored in a full length campaign. But maybe that’s just because I like the Vex and their aesthetic, and also love the simulation and time travel stuff. I feel like Osiris was wasted a bit.

So, I walked away from the CoO campaign feeling like I don't really need to play another Destiny campaign ever again. And no, I don't mean that in the ragingly negative way that it sounds... because I found the campaign fun. I'm still piecing together my thoughts on why I feel this way. But to me, Bungie's storytelling has just become so surface level, so unsatisfying, that I almost want to see what would happen if they just got it out of the way. Stop treating it like something that matters, because it SO does not.

Overall, CoO felt a lot like a mini version of D2; mostly fun campaign that doesn't live up to the glory days of Bungie's past, with a bare-bones "end game" that feels lacking compared to the later days of D1. It feels stuck in an awkward middle ground to me.

Is the story of Destiny 2 or Curse of Osiris really any worse or more shallow than anything in Halo? I like Halo's story, but I don't think that it's that compelling on its own. It's good because it gave us tons of cool moments and characters ("Tank beats everything!").

I honestly think the lack of friendly AI characters is what separates the two the most from me. As you said, why can't I fight next to Ikora and Osiris? Having these characters only ever be voices on the radio really hurts my relationship with them and my ability to care about them. Would anyone like the Arbiter if he just spoke to you on the comms the entire time during Halo 3, rather than fighting by your side? I wouldn't.

Despite having a much more grand and epic lore, Destiny feels far more mundane than Halo in a lot of respects. Lack of friendly AI helping fight makes it feel like my Guardian is literally the only one doing anything ever. The Master Chief was the hero of Halo, for sure, but it never felt like he was the only one accomplishing anything. That's not true in Destiny, where it feels like everyone else might as well just not exist, because my Guardian does literally every single thing of any importance.

The only time I have really felt for a character in Destiny other an my guardian, because the main story did that for me in D2, is the one strike about the guardians who were getting captured and having the light sucked out of them by the Hive. That was a freaking good strike because I actually felt bad for those guardians. It was also the first time I felt like we were actually losing people. Even at the end of the D2 campaign, I felt like it was a struggle, but I never felt like anyone even died in that final stand.

I don’t think the entire game as a whole has ever completely come together. You yourself are appreciating but one piece: the art.

Yes, I am highlighting the artistic side, which I personally think blows most games out of the water. But there are also many, many other aspects that gamers just take for granted.

And yes, the character movement, art, gunplay, raids, and PvP are all fun. There are just as many parts that need work though. Looking at the game holistically as you say would reveal this.

Just as many? Are we talking quantity or quality? And are you saying that the parts that need work are degrading the parts that shine to the point of sub par?

I personally think that the parts that work far outshine the parts that need more work. But this is also a personally how I play the game and enjoy it. I mean, I take the raid lair we played last night as an example: It was amazing, it was great gameplay, great art, great fun both solo and as a team. The only minor things that annoyed me was the fact that when you wipe you don't get full ammo and maybe a raid mechanic that wasn't properly described through UI/visuals. That's about it. What that raid does well, in my opinion, WAY outshines the minor annoyances.

I just feel like people are so use to what Bungie does well, that they ignore that completely and focus on the annoyances even when comparing it to other games. So many other games feel completely clunky with their controls or have decent art and atmosphere but not anything close to Destiny.

Destiny has always been less than the sum of its parts.

Classic case of the internet distorting reality.

I'm really enjoying the campaign so far.

Yeah, I honestly don't know what people are complaining about.

I think what I was getting at the idea people have that "everyone" is complaining because four reviews aggregated poorly on meteoritic. But ditto for streamers.

We are at 16 reviews, and the score is 53.

I think in general, negative reviews are a decent indicator of a bad game, but positive reviews are not necessarily an indicator of a good game if that makes sense. Do you think Activision doesn't have a lot of sway over IGN, GamePro, Game Spot, etc? To review a game this poorly and risk having Activision's ads or review codes go away isn't something they would do without a reason.

Again, I would not in any way score this game a 50 myself. I'm sure the raid lair is a 100 and worth the cost all on its own. But they are picking up on legitimate shortcomings.

I'm now super-sad I didn't take any pics. :(

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(Just kidding. Video games aren't movies; you can't play them if you're not awake. I DID find it funny this weekend, though, looking over at Kermit (who's been visiting) and seeing him sound asleep in his chair, with a controller in his hand. He's WAY more hardcore than me - I go to bed long before I get to that point.)

First, wait until you get to be my age, mister. Second, it's not my fault you west coasters don't start playing until after midnight. Third, like you say, Bungie has a habit of kicking you to orbit if you're not actually playing. Fourth, the jet lag is real.

Your mistake was not denying it outright. I've already admitted publicly I forgot to take pictures. :(