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Criticisms 2: Arc Boogaloo [1] (Destiny)

by Harmanimus @, Wednesday, January 03, 2018, 16:15 (2459 days ago)
edited by Harmanimus, Wednesday, January 03, 2018, 16:18

So, this one has grown and shrunk repeatedly. From being a holistic review and criticism down to bullet points of areas of improvement. I think I am more concerned about systems at this point here. While obviously holding some complaints, this is ideally more a discussion of potential, some of it spurred by recent threads. So, I'll try to keep it simple. [Note: Curse of Osiris spoilers kinda maybe if you haven't played it and want no info?]

Mods and Masterwork
[1.1a] I previously discussed my thoughts on mods and my disappointment how they are implemented, especially in the context of fixed rolls. I am looking forward to seeing what they do to adjust both the mod economy and implementation, and expect at a minimum the mods will no longer be set to slots but the gear will still be limited. To that same effect I think MW weapons are not what they could be. Perhaps these should have been rolled into a single system, to provide a more substantial valuation.

[1.1b] In the context of weapons, I would rather that Masterwork weapons give you a secondary perk rather than a negligible stat boost. Orb generation is appreciated, though more variety in possible methods is needed. There are a few specific perks that seem to be desired, same way as in Dest1ny. Kill Clip and Rampage are both defaults for many players. HCR is still popular. Situational perks should be moved to mods, appropriately limited to a small set per weapon, maintaining the hand-crafted feel. Having two perks which synergize well would improve the enjoyability of many less popular weapons which may have better core stats but a worse perk.

[1.1c] Regarding armor, as it seems apparent that the direction is still less abilities for more basic shooting (though my enjoyment of Mayhem implies that should be otherwise), I doubt they will have MW armor directly reduce ability cooldowns. So I would suggest continuing a two-direction approach, but instead of orb generation you have direct Grenade/Melee/Class ability perks. Melee damage reduces grenade cooldown, melee kills reduce melee cooldown, etc. The secondary aspect would be the (I believe Bungie suggested) roll change for armor. So if you like the look of a mobility piece but want it to be heavy you can change that.

[1.2a] This may be more appropriate to rewards, but it is necessary here as well. I would also make a dedicated path to upgrading gear to MW if these changes were put in place. Whether it is a weekly stream of MW Cores or a weekly quest that allows you to pick and choose, I am indifferent. And I would not have this replace the existing mod system with direct ability cooldowns and performance enhancing mods.

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Criticisms 2: Arc Boogaloo [2]

by Harmanimus @, Wednesday, January 03, 2018, 16:15 (2459 days ago) @ Harmanimus

Heroics and Challenges
[2.1a] So, two totally underutilized features of the game. I appreciate the inclusion of Heroic Adventures for Mercury and the boost to rewards for completing Challenges. But neither is really in the place they should be to support the player base.

[2.2a] Heroics should cover all activities. Period. And they should involve modifiers. I am not going to get into my issue with the consolidation of modifiers here, that is a different bag of cats. The campaign missions should be selectable at any time at their base, normal level, allow the first 3 mission completions to aware Ikora tokens. Ikora's meditations should be made Heroic and cycle appropriately with modifier. This allows the campaign to exist as a chosen activity rather than the weird place it is now while also going back to something akin to Daily Heroics as they were in D1.

[2.2b] All destination Adventures should have Heroic options that can be picked up from the destination Vendor. Destination quest missions, without the initial rewards, should also be replayable with Heroic options. Lost Sectors on the Flashpoint destinations should have Heroic versions which are signaled on the map in a similar fashion to public events, and have a beacon to queue to matchmake up to 3 players into that space if you don't have a full fireteam, but don't require it.

[2.3a] Challenges are great as a replacement to Bounties. They no longer tie up inventory space (fix weapon quests doing this please) and they exist for all activities every day. However, certain activities (Strikes) do not greatly benefit from their challenges. Some skew to being more difficult than necessary or too easy for various reasons.

[2.3b] My focus on where I think challenges are under performing is Strikes. Every day you get 1 challenge for styles of engagement (close up precision; multikills without reloading), 1 damage type (100 arc/sol/void damage kills), and 1 sub-class perk challenge (kill enemies in a sunspot; kill enemies with your arc soul). The first is good and enjoyable, and seems to get about the right volume for difficulty of task. The second is pretty standard and supports your use of a subclass, so I can appreciate that as a very direct and overall simple challenge. The last is bad. All of the options are bad.

[2.3c] I don't mean that lightly, even if the language is soft. I have two issues with 9 of 10 challenges in that slot; generate 10 Orbs is fine. First, there is only one challenge per subclass. So it is the same every time it comes around, and a number of them only work with subclass tree (Sunbreaker, Voidwalker) and there is no variety to it. Striker is always kill enemies blinded by a Flashbang Grenade.

[2.3d] Second, if you matchmake into a strike without a full fireteam you have to play against the Strike (speed run to an area; hang back in a public space) to reliably resolve those challanges in a timely fashion. If you are doing the Nightstalker or Striker challenge and you have to kill enemies blinded by your grenade/smoke, you have to be the one to finish them. I can't tell you how many times a blueberry has sent a rocket at a group I just flashbanged/smoked and left me with a nice goose egg of progress and a need to wait until I have my grenade/smoke back. Simple fix is increase the number needed and make it fireteam based. Strikes are supposed to be cooperative, right?

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Criticisms 2: Arc Boogaloo [3]

by Harmanimus @, Wednesday, January 03, 2018, 16:16 (2459 days ago) @ Harmanimus

Ornaments and Rewards
[3.1a] I will put this out front. Ornaments are underutilized. Additionally, too many of them are behind a pay wall. And on this site I'm probably one of the folks with the least issues with Eververse and Microtransactions in general. However, when you take what should be one of the items easiest to make an activity draw and put it in EV it feels a little awkward. If cosmetic change is the desired end game, why is most of it in EV?

[3.1b] As it stands, there are something like 8 armor sets with ornaments. 9 Exotic armor pieces. All exotic weapons have 1-2. The exotic ornaments could have been questline/activity-based rewards for the exotics as you got them. Include alternate and flashy Ornaments in EV for events or with the change of seasons, but that is a lot of rewards tied up in EV. I understand monetization of content and that games are a business. I don't think spreading out ornaments would be substantially detrimental.

[3.1c] Not gonna lie, I am fine with transmat mods and shaders in EV. I am fine with EV specific armor sets and that most ships/sparrows/shells are within EV, now more that there are non-EV options starting to be present in loot tables, though that is just a first step and needs to be taken farther. Sparrows and Ghost shells are still a somewhat sore point, but I've already gone on farther than I wanted on EV.

[3.2a] Obviously, there is a disconnect with some players about Cosmetic Rewards vs. Gameplay Rewards. I am happy that the overall push is still for Cosmetic Rewards at the high end for most activities. But there are still missed opportunities. Specifically in Armor Ornaments and Strike Specific Loot. On the latter we need a way to select specific strikes, or items like Skeleton Keys to allow us to be engaged in our reward process. Tie activities in that specific Strike to the Strike Specific Gear to grant Ornaments.

[3.2b] But back to ornaments for a moment. If you allow the Seasonal Secondary Loot (the stuff that shows up just in Engrams, cannot be currently purchased from Vendors) then we have 6 more armor sets which would greatly benefit from having ornaments. Ikora's Meditations (see, 2.2a) could now be your method for getting ornaments on her gear. This could help keep the old content from being left behind. To the same goal (see, 2.2b) destinations should have Ornaments, specifically tied to their Flashpoint Activities. These can tie into Heroic Adventures, Lost Sectors, and the FP Bosses who are only their on Flashpoint weeks. Currently FPs are just another powerful engram.

[3.3a] I do not think that Tokens-as-Reward is enough to really engage players with the game. At this point I have so many tokens because there is no other gear I care to get from Destinations that I use them to get Legendary Shards. It is not super encouraging, especially when systems exist within the game that would allow me to engage with the play space in a different fashion than I am currently motivated to. EV does a similar thing, compared to the weekly rewards that were for set activities at the end of D1. Even if that rotates week-to-week, it would be nice to see some EV-related Milestone activities, and I think that would help with players feeling their time is better valued.

[3.3b] And a returning point to MW rewards (see, 1.2a) as the context of Goal-Oriented v. Random Reward is important. Skeleton Keys were Random Drops, but had a Goal-Oriented method to acquire at least a small number on a reliable basis. MW Cores/Drops, Bright Engrams, Strike Specific Loot, and Ornaments would all greatly benefit from Goal-Oriented rewards. We are now able to acquire all Vendor armor sets and weapons (on a rotational basis) with Goal-Oriented acquisition. I also think more could be done with auras, but that is already getting long in the teeth and I am not finished.

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Criticisms 2: Arc Boogaloo [4/5]

by Harmanimus @, Wednesday, January 03, 2018, 16:18 (2459 days ago) @ Harmanimus

Use of Play Spaces
[4.1a] So, reuse of level geometry is often a hot point of contention in games, period. It always has been. And I think most folks who hate on it are wrong. Lots of reasons. But here the context I feel is more important given the perception that Des2ny lacks content. This is an issue throughout much of the game (Xur location, Cayde Staches, distribution of landing Zones, preferential Public Events, liminal spaces between/at the edge of zones) but for this context I will focus on Mercury.

[4.1b] I would identify there as being eight spaces which were created for Mercury with CoO: The Donut (Patrol Zone), Infinite Forest, Past Tree, Future Grave, The Maze, Gardener's Spire, Atlas Grove and Infinity's Crown. Six of those are abysmally under used. Infinity's Crown is fine simply as where you confront Panoptes. And The Donut is obviously utilized. GS and AG are both only used for the two Strike/Story missions, and I feel that there are areas within each which would benefit from being publicly engaged. The IF has been discussed to death how it is a disappointment that it only exists when an activity requires it. PT, FG, and TM (Simulant Past, Future, Present respectively) are all used within the Adventures, but nothing else.

[4.1c] Bungie (and presumably supporting studios) built enough play space that it could rival Nessus in size, but only put in enough activities to fill up Titan and boarded entry to the rest. There is no reason Osiris or Sagira couldn't simulate Patrol Beacons, and why wouldn't the vex be attempting to simulate Public Events of the Fallen, Hive, and Cabal? I understand there are memory limitations. Maybe there's only one type of PE per area. And I could probably even accept the Infinite Forest not getting the Public Space treatment, though I would be disappointed.

[5.1a] Going forward I really hope that Bungie better utilizes the content they put forward. Both from a moment-to-moment experience basis (Synergistic Weapon Perks, Armor Perks and Builds) and from a broadness of activities (In both play spaces and motivators - Mayhem being part of a weekly reward path has got me playing more Crucible than prior to The Dawning) perspective. I will continue to have a generally positive outlook for the future of the game, as D1 didn't let me down in its overall growth, even if I had disagreements with some of the directions things went. I just would like to see its systems live up to the potential they suggest.

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These are entirely reasonable

by Durandal, Thursday, January 04, 2018, 12:25 (2458 days ago) @ Harmanimus

How did they let you on the internet? There isn't a single sentence in ALL CAPS.

Amusingly, I agree on most of the points. Allowing players to add perks to a frame of a gun to make a unique weapon, or even replacing perks on a gun purchased from a foundry, would go a long way.

Same with the masterwork system. The minor stat boosts are so low as to be meaningless. The bonus is really the orb generation.

If they expanded the mod slots on armor and weapons and let us fill them with a number of perks that system would go a long way.

Same with ornaments. Having a series of ornaments as you progressed through activities would go a long way to making gear more unique or special to a player.


Lets go back to the initial Destiny pitch, where your favored activities would influence your gear. While Bungie has implemented a different armor for each activity and destination, the random drops basically ruin it. Aside from raid/trials gear you can get any gear at any time from any activity.

The pool really needs to tighten so that specific gear and mod drops are unique to various activities. Tokens are not the same, and should not replace mod or frame drops, but supplement them.

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These are entirely reasonable

by Harmanimus @, Thursday, January 04, 2018, 18:32 (2458 days ago) @ Durandal

Lets go back to the initial Destiny pitch, where your favored activities would influence your gear.

While I have some really great stories about how I got gear in Dest1ny, and a few that are entertaining about Des2ny (you normally don't get the item you want out of an Exotic Engram from Rahool when you say "F- You, it's Christmas, gimme dis" but it worked) the way most of the loot is awarded and how you define your character with it are pretty meh.

While Bungie has implemented a different armor for each activity and destination, the random drops basically ruin it. Aside from raid/trials gear you can get any gear at any time from any activity.

Interestingly enough, I hadn't actually spent much time thinking about how much overlap there is in gear from an activity distribution standpoint. But there actually is quite a lot. I know people complained about Iron Banner weapons being recolors (which while disappointing wasn't the biggest of deals to me) but when you actually look at the armor sets across what we have? Of 5 destinations, 3 have reused sets. And all the available Engram-Bonus sets are doubled up on.

D1 had a variety of Crucible-only drops which weren't in other loot tables and weren't Crucible gear. More gear in general that you don't get from engrams would likely go a long way for a lot of people.

The pool really needs to tighten so that specific gear and mod drops are unique to various activities. Tokens are not the same, and should not replace mod or frame drops, but supplement them.

Also, I like that you did in like 2 lines what I had to ramble for paragraphs to express.

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