I am absolutely loving it, but it's a game that's way more fun with other people. I'm having a blast just joining up with randos to hunt monsters, but if anyone is playing on PS4, let me know!

It's sort of funny--I complained about grinding in Destiny. Monster Hunter is a game that's all about grinding. Hunting monsters to get parts to craft gear. That's pretty much the game. I'm not sure why I like that loop so much versus the loop of grinding out strikes for specific gear in D1, but it's given me something to think about.

I can't tell if it is just good marketing or what, but I've been thinking about checking it out. I was thinking about making this exact post to see what DBO thought.

I've never played a monster hunter game. You say it is just grinding, but what is the gameplay like? Do you fight the same monsters over and over, or are monsters more individual? How do you encounter randos, similar to how destiny works or more MMO style?

I can't tell if it is just good marketing or what, but I've been thinking about checking it out. I was thinking about making this exact post to see what DBO thought.

I've never played a monster hunter game. You say it is just grinding, but what is the gameplay like? Do you fight the same monsters over and over, or are monsters more individual? How do you encounter randos, similar to how destiny works or more MMO style?

I really like ACG's reviews for things. To briefly address your questions, there are a variety of areas, small monsters (mob-ish) and large monsters ("boss fights") to tackle throughout the course of the game, all with their unique patterns and weakpoints. You'll only encounter other players who've joined your party.

I have some comments I'd like to leave regarding this game vs. games like Destiny; hopefully I'll find time later.

I am absolutely loving it, but it's a game that's way more fun with other people. I'm having a blast just joining up with randos to hunt monsters, but if anyone is playing on PS4, let me know!

It's sort of funny--I complained about grinding in Destiny. Monster Hunter is a game that's all about grinding. Hunting monsters to get parts to craft gear. That's pretty much the game. I'm not sure why I like that loop so much versus the loop of grinding out strikes for specific gear in D1, but it's given me something to think about.

I think it's because your current tools can always be improved for the next task, and it respects your time by always giving you a direct path to improving your weapons and gear. Sure, there may be plenty of grinding involved, but you're never left feeling like you're not getting something out of what you're doing, and the gameplay is fun, while always giving you room to improve both by understanding your enemies better, and by improving your mastery of your own equipment (especially since there is a huge variety of tools at your disposal, and each one has several tiers).

I love games that do that.

There is a pretty good variety of creatures to fight, all with unique moves and weaknesses.

I’m not far enough to truly know, but from my understanding, playing through the “story” is all what is called Low Rank. When you finish, the world gets populated with High Rank creatures. I don’t think there are new creatures, but instead just harder versions. Think Heroic or Prestige mode. That’s what most seem to consider as the real game, where the creatures start dropping rare parts for the really good gear.

There are four areas in the game, each with a unique set of creatures. I’m ten hours in and only in the second area. I spent two hours last night hunting the same creature repeatedly to get drops to craft better gear so I could take down a big creature that was my next story mission. I don’t think that was necessary, but that creature kicked my ass three times in a row, so I figured crafting some better armor and a weapon with the element the big guy is weak to would help. So I spent a couple of hours grinding that stuff out. But I did do it by jumping in with random people doing that hunt, and it was really fun.

I think that’s definitely a big part of it. I’m going to make a post later this evening with some more impressions.

The way this game handles multiplayer is initially frustrating, but ultimately cool.

I'll start with the bad:

The game has a sort of hub city (think of the Tower) where you go back and craft gear, sell items, manage inventory, etc. The real bummer is that it doesn't work like the Tower. Each player is always in their own separate instance of the town, even when you're in a party with other players in the game. You're always alone. To actually see the other players, you must load into the Gathering Hub, which is one building at the top of the city. It has all the same functionality of the town with vendors and the quest board, etc, just in a much smaller area. I'm honestly baffled by this decision--why load into a completely separate area to do the exact same things I would do in town, only with other people running around. What doesn't the town just work that way? My one friend and I honestly just each stay in our separate instance of town, rather than spending the time loading into the Gathering Hub.

The good:

I like the way the game actually handles forming up with other people, especially with random people.

The town has a quest board. When you want to do a quest, you go to the quest board and choose the one you want to do. If you want to do it alone, you set the party limit to 1 and start it up. If you want to allow other players to play with you, you set the party limit higher (up to 4). The thing is, it's not matchmade in the tradition sense (the way Strikes in Destiny are). In order for other players to join you, they have to seek out that mission. When you post a quest, you are also given the option to search for open quests. So instead of posting the one you're getting ready to do, you instead look through the list of quests that players in your current lobby have already posted. If you meet the level requirement, you can just jump in.

It sounds convoluted, and it sort of is at first. It took me a bit to really feel comfortable with it. But after I did, I started to really appreciate it. It allows you to form up with other players without actually having to party up with them.

Imagine something like this in Destiny. You're in the tower, and you post that you're going to do adventures on Nessus. You post that on the quest board, and leave. Other players will be able to see that posted and join if they want to. When they leave the Tower, they'll join up in your instance of Nessus and be able to do the adventures with you, without actually having to join your party.

It allows you to play with random folks without the sort of pressure that comes with sending out invites and waiting for people to join.

At the end of the quest in Monster Hunter, you're given two options: Return to Camp with Party, or Disband and return to town. You see what options the other players currently have selected on the left side of the screen. If you disband, you disconnect and go back to town. If your return to camp, you go to one of the campsites in the world with the other players that have chosen that option. There, you can choose another quest to go on, or just go wonder around the world in the same instance as the rest of the party.

So, going back to Destiny, once the Adventure (or story mission, or whatever) was finished, you can disband and go back to the Tower and start over, or you can go to camp (say a fast travel point), and now you'd basically be in a fireteam with the other players that chose that option, and can continue running around the world and doing patrols or adventures or whatever.

Again, it sounds absolutely convoluted for what is actually happening, but I've found it brilliant. I've been playing with other people a lot, which is something I wouldn't do without the system. In order to play Destiny with others in the same way, I'd basically have to be sending out party invites to randos in the Tower. In Monster Hunter, I just join the quest they're on, then when it's done we go our separate ways and I join a different rando's quest.

It also has an SOS system. Basically, at any point while you're out on a quest, you can fire a flare into the air, and that gets posted on the quest board automatically. So people choosing a quest can respond to an SOS call, which usually means someone is fighting a monster and getting their ass kicked or just wants help. So you can spend your entire game session just responding to SOS flares and helping people.

It's just neat.

I am absolutely loving it, but it's a game that's way more fun with other people. I'm having a blast just joining up with randos to hunt monsters, but if anyone is playing on PS4, let me know!

It's sort of funny--I complained about grinding in Destiny. Monster Hunter is a game that's all about grinding. Hunting monsters to get parts to craft gear. That's pretty much the game. I'm not sure why I like that loop so much versus the loop of grinding out strikes for specific gear in D1, but it's given me something to think about.

Questions:

- Do you know or are you able to learn, in-game, which monsters you need to hunt for which gear?
- Do you know or are you able to learn, in-game, where you can find the monsters you need to hunt?
- Do you know or are you able to learn, in-game, how to conduct your monster hunt for maximum effectiveness?

If the answer is yes to all three of these, then I think I can explain why this is a more fun loop than Destiny. In Destiny the loop is: Kill literally anything and pray. If there were specific drops *that mattered* in certain zones, it would be "go to X zone and kill literally anything and pray," but location specific loot is all basically the same so who cares?

This is also why I think Diablo 3 is bad. Kill literally anything and pray. Literally. Anything. I guess some of the endgame tier activities have more powerful loot (rifts), but this is still a "kill literally anything in a rift and pray" which is about the same.

This is why I think Diablo 2 is amazing. Certain bosses are loot pinatas guaranteed to drop good drops and you know about how powerful the loot they drop will be, about where in the levels those bosses can be found, and can figure out specifically how to approach those fights in order to maximize efficiency.

If the answers to those questions aren't all yes, then I'm not sure why it's a compelling loop, but generally feeling like you made a meaningful decision that directly contributed to your goals beyond wandering aimlessly is helpful to feeling like you have more agency in your character's progression.

- Do you know or are you able to learn, in-game, which monsters you need to hunt for which gear?

Yes. You see a list of gear you can craft and which components you need. There is a bunch of gear that just has ????? as the component needed--I assume it's because I haven't encounter that monster yet.

- Do you know or are you able to learn, in-game, where you can find the monsters you need to hunt?

Yes. This system is actually pretty neat. As you wonder around the game, you encounter clues. Usually tracks, sometimes other signs of a monster roaming through the area. You have an investigation meter for each separate monster. There are these things called scoutflies in the game that work basically as the quest marker. They're like fireflies that lead you around, but they only do so as you level up your investigation meter for whatever monster you're tracking. At level 0, they do nothing. At level 1 they lead you to the next clue. At level 2 they lead you straight to the monster, and at level 3 you can just see the monster on your map at all times.

I think there are two separate version of this--if you're on a quest to hunt a specific monster, once you find enough tracks, the scoutflies will track the monster in that quest. This seems to be independent of a larger game-wide system for each monster. You don't have to be on a quest to hunt a specific monster--you can hunt any monster at any time, while in expedition mode (free roam, basically) or even when you're on a quest for another monster. I think that's where the overarching system comes into play.

EDIT: I also forgot another aspect of this. As you play, if you actually pay attention, you learn the monsters' preferred areas. As you damage a monster, eventually it will try to flee, and if it's really hurt it will try to return to its nest. Once you learn where it likes to nest, you can use that to your advantage on future hunts by placing traps there before you engage it in a fight.

- Do you know or are you able to learn, in-game, how to conduct your monster hunt for maximum effectiveness?

Yes. The more you encounter and fight and investigate monsters, the more info you learn. This happens both in actuality (learning the monster move set, attacks, etc), and in game through info collected in the monster guide, which will tell you its elemental weakness and attacks, which body parts can be broken off by which type of attacks, which components they drop, etc.

I think the biggest thing, which all of that gets at, is purpose. It's grinding, but it's grinding for a reason. I know exactly why I'm hunt a specific monster--I need XX part to craft XX item, so I need to hunt that monster for it. It works in a way that running a specific strike hoping to get an Imago Loop just didn't for me.

Rather than hunting for a weapon that will have a random set of stats, I'm hunting for parts that allow me craft the specific weapon with the exact stats that I need. I needed a weapon with a water element to hunt a monster that was weak to water, so I farmed the monster that dropped the part that allowed me to craft the weapon that had the water element.

At the end of the day, it's all just dressing up the fact that you're hunting the same monsters over and over and over again, but it's compelling in a way that grinding out the same strike over and over again just wasn't.

I'm beginning to understand why folks are asking for the things they are in Destiny in terms of things to grind for. I think the thing that makes it not work so well in Destiny is a lack of depth. I can easily imagine a version of Destiny where strikes (or even just Majors that spawn during Flashpoint patrols or whatever) drop specific things that allow you to customize your gear and weapons more. It would give doing specific things a purpose beyond getting another Scathelocke or whatever.

Even that system existed, I'm still not sure it would work that well, though. Other than the raids and maybe the Nightfall, Destiny doesn't have much gameplay depth. It's an easy game that's basically just shooting things, and, for a large part, the gear you're using is irrelevant. The stats connected to any piece of gear are mostly very minor. The stuff you craft in Monster Hunter gives you options. Craft stuff that you know gives you an advantage over the monster you're hunting. Weak to fire? Make a fire weapon. Oh, its tail can be severed? Make a weapon that does severing damage, rather than blunt damage. It's a flying monster? Make a weapon that has a longer range so you can bring it down rather than having to wait for it to land. It's all about giving you options. The only thing Destiny has is elemental shields.

None of this is to criticize Destiny. Ultimately, I feel like most of that is just beyond the scope of what Destiny wants to be. I just can't help but get excited and imagine a world in which Destiny actually embraces systems like that, and I honestly think it would be an incredible game. Destiny is at its best when it combines it's incredible feeling shooting and actual mechanical depth and challenge (the Raid, Nightfalls), but it spends most of its game time coasting on the fact that it just feels good to shoot. Even as I say all that, I fully expect someone to come along and say that all of that is the exact opposite of what they want Destiny to be, that it sounds too much like work, and I totally get that, too.

Maybe I'll play Warframe one of these days . . .

That game has caught my attention. I will wait and see if a few people from my Xbox friends grabs it and if so, I may do so as well.

- Do you know or are you able to learn, in-game, which monsters you need to hunt for which gear?

Yes. You see a list of gear you can craft and which components you need. There is a bunch of gear that just has ????? as the component needed--I assume it's because I haven't encounter that monster yet.

- Do you know or are you able to learn, in-game, where you can find the monsters you need to hunt?

Yes. This system is actually pretty neat. As you wonder around the game, you encounter clues. Usually tracks, sometimes other signs of a monster roaming through the area. You have an investigation meter for each separate monster. There are these things called scoutflies in the game that work basically as the quest marker. They're like fireflies that lead you around, but they only do so as you level up your investigation meter for whatever monster you're tracking. At level 0, they do nothing. At level 1 they lead you to the next clue. At level 2 they lead you straight to the monster, and at level 3 you can just see the monster on your map at all times.

I think there are two separate version of this--if you're on a quest to hunt a specific monster, once you find enough tracks, the scoutflies will track the monster in that quest. This seems to be independent of a larger game-wide system for each monster. You don't have to be on a quest to hunt a specific monster--you can hunt any monster at any time, while in expedition mode (free roam, basically) or even when you're on a quest for another monster. I think that's where the overarching system comes into play.

EDIT: I also forgot another aspect of this. As you play, if you actually pay attention, you learn the monsters' preferred areas. As you damage a monster, eventually it will try to flee, and if it's really hurt it will try to return to its nest. Once you learn where it likes to nest, you can use that to your advantage on future hunts by placing traps there before you engage it in a fight.

- Do you know or are you able to learn, in-game, how to conduct your monster hunt for maximum effectiveness?

Yes. The more you encounter and fight and investigate monsters, the more info you learn. This happens both in actuality (learning the monster move set, attacks, etc), and in game through info collected in the monster guide, which will tell you its elemental weakness and attacks, which body parts can be broken off by which type of attacks, which components they drop, etc.

I think the biggest thing, which all of that gets at, is purpose. It's grinding, but it's grinding for a reason. I know exactly why I'm hunt a specific monster--I need XX part to craft XX item, so I need to hunt that monster for it. It works in a way that running a specific strike hoping to get an Imago Loop just didn't for me.

Rather than hunting for a weapon that will have a random set of stats, I'm hunting for parts that allow me craft the specific weapon with the exact stats that I need. I needed a weapon with a water element to hunt a monster that was weak to water, so I farmed the monster that dropped the part that allowed me to craft the weapon that had the water element.

At the end of the day, it's all just dressing up the fact that you're hunting the same monsters over and over and over again, but it's compelling in a way that grinding out the same strike over and over again just wasn't.

I'm beginning to understand why folks are asking for the things they are in Destiny in terms of things to grind for. I think the thing that makes it not work so well in Destiny is a lack of depth. I can easily imagine a version of Destiny where strikes (or even just Majors that spawn during Flashpoint patrols or whatever) drop specific things that allow you to customize your gear and weapons more. It would give doing specific things a purpose beyond getting another Scathelocke or whatever.

Even that system existed, I'm still not sure it would work that well, though. Other than the raids and maybe the Nightfall, Destiny doesn't have much gameplay depth. It's an easy game that's basically just shooting things, and, for a large part, the gear you're using is irrelevant. The stats connected to any piece of gear are mostly very minor. The stuff you craft in Monster Hunter gives you options. Craft stuff that you know gives you an advantage over the monster you're hunting. Weak to fire? Make a fire weapon. Oh, its tail can be severed? Make a weapon that does severing damage, rather than blunt damage. It's a flying monster? Make a weapon that has a longer range so you can bring it down rather than having to wait for it to land. It's all about giving you options. The only thing Destiny has is elemental shields.

None of this is to criticize Destiny. Ultimately, I feel like most of that is just beyond the scope of what Destiny wants to be. I just can't help but get excited and imagine a world in which Destiny actually embraces systems like that, and I honestly think it would be an incredible game. Destiny is at its best when it combines it's incredible feeling shooting and actual mechanical depth and challenge (the Raid, Nightfalls), but it spends most of its game time coasting on the fact that it just feels good to shoot. Even as I say all that, I fully expect someone to come along and say that all of that is the exact opposite of what they want Destiny to be, that it sounds too much like work, and I totally get that, too.

Maybe I'll play Warframe one of these days . . .

Warframe's loot system works a lot like Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes, if you've played that mobile game. You see a list of things that can drop during a mission, and then you run the mission and hope to get a lot of the one you need. Also, you almost never get (or need) just 1 of something really rare. Instead, you need 20 of an item that drops 2-10 per level. So there's *always* progress being made.