I had heard some bad stuff about Forza 7, but I'm sure I'll get it soon.

Speaking of which, I'm not in as much of a rush now as when I wrote that first post, so here goes...

Good:

It drives better than any previous Forza game. The cars' handling just feels right. And that is the point, after all.

The weather effects are finally where they should be, I think. As you probably know, Forza didn't have weather effects at all for a long time. It only got rain in version 6. And they did do a great job, in some ways - Forza 6 actually simulated hydroplaning on standing water, as well as the drag force from going through the puddles. It didn't just say the wet version of the track was X% less grippy, and that's the only difference. So that was great, and the things they were doing with water were things I had not seen before. But the flipside was that Forza 6 treated the wet environment as a static thing. There was a version of the track with rain, and one without, and that was it. The rain version was always in the same state - the rate of rainfall was constant, the puddles stayed the same size the whole time, etc. There was no concept of the track conditions gradually changing. Now, in 7, there are a BUNCH of different states ranging from cloudy to full-on thunderstorm, to foggy. And it believably transitions between them. The track surface gradually gets more slippery and puddles start to build up after it's been raining for a bit. Very good stuff.

The Pagani Zonda R is back, as is the Ferrari F40 Competizione. Those two cars have both been in previous games, but were absent for a while. I'm not even sure when the last time I was able to drive them was, and I have strong emotional attachment to both, so for me it's almost worth the other issues just to have them back.

You can now buy parts, tune cars, and test drive from within the pre-race menu. This is great because it means you can adjust your car setup for the actual race you're doing, if you're someone who likes to do that, without quitting the race and going into the car setup area separately. And you can test drive right at that track, since it's loaded up for the race.

There's a huge amount of content. It feels massively bigger than 5 and even a bit bigger than 6 to me. You might be aware, but Forza had an unfortunate lack of content in 5, which was obviously due to them being forced to rush production to launch with the XBone. There were a couple hundred fewer cars than FM4, and several fewer tracks. Pretty dismal for a game that had been steadily expanding up until that point. 6 improved, and on numbers it might have been close to 4 (I never checked TBH), but somehow it didn't feel as expansive as 4. I think 7 is finally back where it should be, and I'm fairly sure it launched with more content than 4 had.

Bad:

Buying cars is weird. For some reason, the first method you're introduced to is this baffling "car collection" screen, which only sorts the cars by their "collection tier" (more on this later), not by anything else. And since there are only a handful of tiers, each group is HUGE. Plus the tiers have more to do with rarity than speed, so there's very little logic to where anything is. You could never develop any understanding of which cars are where. And to top it all off, NOTHING about the cars' stats are shown here. Not class, weight, power, or anything of the sort. Now, luckily the standard car store does still exist, but it's not what's pushed at you in the intros/tutorials, so I probably had the game a day or two before I noticed it. And as it turns out, you're probably not meant to use the car collection as your primary shopping center - it's just to keep track of what you've collected, as the name suggests. But that's not how it's presented early on.

Collection tiers. Each car is in a tier based on rarity, although this is a bit questionable since most cars in Forza are rare. Even the ones that are based on a common model are usually a special version (Dodge Omni GLHS, for example). Anyway, the deal is that every car you own nets you some points, and getting to a given point total unlocks each tier. You're not able to buy cars above your current tier (though you can still win them as rewards from various things). In practice, I found that this mattered very little. Partly because, as is typical in Forza, while going through the initial career mode stuff I was getting so many cars from races and leveling up that I didn't even have time to try them all, never mind buying others on top of that. And also because the cars above my current tier were generally more expensive than I could afford. It didn't take very long for me to reach top tier, and once you do that it's all meaningless.

Classes vs. Divisions. In addition to the typical A, B, C, etc., each car is now also in a division. These divisions try to group similar types of cars together, so it might be things like American street muscle, luxury coupes, or classic rally. Now, Forza has had these types of groupings before. Horizon 3 does the same thing. What's different is that in Forza 7 each division has its OWN performance index, which is separate from the class. So B class might range from 501-600 PI for example, but Classic Rally cars need to be 575 to compete in their division (I'm just making up numbers here, but you get the idea). And nearly ALL the career races are by division, so if you're going to use a car in those career mode races, it needs to be at that PI level. But when my friends and I race, we prefer to just go by broad class, because that creates a more interesting mix of different vehicles. So I have to have a separate tune for each scenario, at least for the cars I actually used in the career mode. Giant pain in the ass, and it accomplishes NOTHING because the previous Forza games were still ABLE to have career races with similar cars all running together, because they still HAD vehicle types. I can think of no logical reason why these groupings needed to have their own separate PI requirement. Oh, and by they way, it's not JUST a PI requirement. Any given division will also have maximum tire width and power levels. These limits, for most cars, are far enough above stock to not be too big of a deal, but there are a few which are actually above the requirements in stock form. This leads to some street vehicles having RESTRICTOR PLATES among their possible mods, in order to de-tune them for their division. Restrictor plates on a street car FFS.

The normal tune and test-drive area is gone. For me personally, this is Forza 7's worst sin. In previous Forza games, as odd as it may sound, the thing I actually spent the most time on was building and tuning cars. The thing I have the most fun with is driving a car bone-stock in the test drive area, identifying its strengths and weaknesses and the handling tendencies that I don't like, and then very gradually installing upgrades and tweaking settings. This involves NUMEROUS test drives in between each change so I can test my changes. For some reason I can't quite fathom, Turn 10 apparently thought that since they now have test driving in the pre-race menu, that is where ALL tuning and setup would be done. It's apparently incomprehensible to them that someone would set up a car first thing, just to do it, and not necessarily because they have a particular race pending. This means that I have to load up a race (which I often have no intention of actually running) just to build my car. Oh, and here's the great part. Because I intend to do my own setup, I often buy my cars stock (in this game, they normally come automatically upgraded to their division specs). So, when I go into "free play" and choose the race, the game automatically selects that car's division in the race settings. Then, when I try to load the session, it yells at me because my car doesn't meet the specs for the division that IT CHOSE WITHOUT ASKING ME (because, of course, it's stock). I then have to manually go into race settings and set the division to "all" just so it'll let me load things up. And as I say, I was never actually planning on running the race, so this is supremely irritating.

No AI cars in multiplayer games. This isn't the worst thing in the world, since Forza's AI drivers are notoriously bad (and they have not improved at all in 7). But it is something that's lacking. My friends and I used to fill up the rest of the lobby with AI bots when we raced online, just for a bit of extra traffic. It was always a fun challenge to run the Nordschleife with roll-off delay starts, and see if we could catch up to the lead cars by the lap's end. Things feel lonelier now.

All that being said, I still love Forza 7, even with all its faults. Last Saturday night I spent 6 straight hours racing around with 3 other people (off and on, 2 of them were trying and failing to share a PC setup, LOL).

I bought Horizon because it was only $30. I sort of already regret it. It's really fun, but damn it just isn't the same. Everyone talks about about how it still has that Forza feel, and . . . no, it actually doesn't. I have everything off just like I do in Motorsport, and it still seems impossible to actually screw up--the cars still drive like they're on rails.

Well, it is like the main Forza games, and yet it isn't. The edge is definitely taken off the handling, as you obviously noticed. And TBH, I think it has to be. Trying to do Horizon's ridiculous cross-country races with Forza Motorsport's handling model would be an exercise in frustration and failure. There's already too much colliding with other cars and random jostling IMO. On the other hand, it still does a great job communicating weight transfer, balance, and per-wheel grip, in a way that I think most other console games get wrong or omit entirely. I mean, try The Crew. Yeesh. My thinking is that people who say Horizon and Motorsport games drive the same are probably using a lot of assists. I imagine they might feel similar with the stability control and traction control turned on. Not that I'd know, scrubs! ;)

That being said, I think Horizon 3 is a great game, for the type of game that it is, and I'd be happy to play that one with you as well. There's a lot of potential fun in its multiplayer stuff that I've never really given a try. Pro tip: you can put Top Gear style training wheels on a Reliant Robin, and it actually works realistically. It's hilarious. That alone makes the game worthwhile IMO. :)

FWIW, my opinion is that Dirt Rally is nearly unplayable on a controller. I put a lot of effort intro trying to tune the settings, and I eventually got it to where I could do it most of the time on loose surfaces, but driving on tarmac courses was still VERY sketchy. On a wheel and pedal setup, though, it's amazingly good. I guess that's not surprising for a game which was mostly tested by PC enthusiast neckbeards. But driving a Lancia 037, on gravel, with a wheel, in that game is maybe the most sublime virtual driving experience I've had. That thing can dance like nothing else.

My Germany times would like a word with you, sir. To be fair, it did take an Elite controller with the handbrake mapped to a paddle to really make my time any good.

I have Dirt Rally on PS4. I think it’s the only game that might actually feel better than Forza. I do love the simplicity of the game too. Just pure racing with nothing extraneous.

There’s something special about the structure and car collecting of Forza though. No one else does it in quite the same way.

I'm a scout leader of new 11 year old scouts. About once a year we'll have a little game night (including VR) & I'll let them try Dirt Rally with my wheel setup. They lack the (self) control necessary to do well in that game. After they all have given it a try I'll show them how it's done. It's alway fun seeing their faces at their scout leader schooling them so badly on a 'hard' video game.

I haven't schooled them in Halo yet due to its rating & my position as a 'responsible' adult in charge... but boy would I love to. :)

I'm warming to the idea.

Getting Game Pass for a month for $10 to try it out seems like a good option. That’s my plan.

This article at The Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2018/feb/13/rare-sea-of-thieves-multiplayer-pirates

does a really good job of covering what we have to look forward to in the full game and what things might give it the staying power that'll make it worth the full $60 purchase.

Counterpoint, this article over at IGN pretty much confirms a lot of my fears about the game:

-There won't be much to do at launch besides trying to grind up to "Legendary" status with three factions, which opens up more rewarding quests, but they plan to grow the game down the road, "as early as" three months after launch.

-Legendary-level players will have functionally better ships than everyone below that status, further creating a balance divide between Sloop ships and galleons (remember, sloops can be even slower than Galleons).

-They consider this a "live game", which means that story will be added later on down the road, so while there is a plan for story, there won't be much at launch other than "events" in-game (Skeleton islands, Kraken).

I'm still excited for the game, but the ambitions are tied directly to a playerbase (and more importantly, one that sticks around, especially long enough for the Microtransactions to kick in), especially with not-afraid-to-kill-our-few-exclusives Microsoft looming over Rare. Hopefully the fact that it's tied to Game Pass ensures a healthy playerbase, and Rare can add all of the things that they hope to put in down the road (also a bit concerning, since they are super slow at making anything).

I dunno. I really want this game to succeed.

Halo Reach was a games with gold game at one point. Are you sure you don't have a license? For me it'd be worth $20 to get it, but you certainly could find a used disc for less.

I think that happened after I sold my Xbox. I’ll be getting a copy of Reach for sure. I know I have it somewhere, but if I can’t find it I’ll buy another copy.

BTW, I will drop whatever I'm doing to play co-op Reach.

I’ll definitely let you know. Got some other stuff to check out, but I’ll at least be dipping in within the next few weeks.

Bought the Division for $30 (That's for everything. $15 for the basic game). Prof Ozy and I have just started the campaign and plan to play through it co-op. I like it so far.

I didn’t really like the beta, so I’m not really that interested, but I might look into it.

I wasn't really into the beta either, but the recent praise got me interested again.

Yeah. That’s totally what I mean. Pro controller sounds slightly less jerk-y to me so I guess my brain changed it.

Are you talking about the Elite controller?

I've used one very briefly and it was great. I don't know that it was $150 great, though. Eventually, maybe.

Yeah, I wasn't really convinced at first that it was "$150 great" either... but now that I've been playing with it a while, I gotta admit that it is totally worth every penny. I actually like it a lot more than my more-expensive Scuf Dual Shock 4.

They’d better! v1 was manufactured with toothpicks. It was probably the worst controller since...probably the Virtual Boy.

I don't have any particular love for Gears of War, but GoW 4 is pretty fun so far. The reintroduction of Marcus Fenix is the best thing I've seen in a while. It's so fantastically dumb in the absolute best way.

I’m a fan of the franchise, but I never would have said I was particularly fond of the characters. So I too was surprised by how much I enjoyed Marcus’ return in Gears 4. Dumb and fun and silly and nostalgic in all the right ways.

It's a good game--not as good as the first three in my opinion, but it certainly does look great (and I didn't even play it in 4K). There were a few unpleasant difficulty spikes, but YMMV.

I played The Witness on it fine

Cool game actually.

Excluding things you mentioned in your first post.

Things that I can suggest that are XboxOX exclusive, some you may have already:
Sunset Overdrive (cheap and novel)
Robocraft Infinity (upcoming, March)

And in the context of things which are [/b]not[/b] available on other platforms, except PC:
Crackdown 3 (upcoming, TBA18)
State of Decay Y1 Survival Edition (solid, or just wait for SoD2)
Ori and the Blind Forest (premium 2D experience)
Ashen (upcoming, Souls-lite with a very neat setting)
PUBG (have heard mixed things about the XBO community for it)

Microsoft has done a lot of positive things with their backward compatibility as well as their game pass is interesting. Albeit, I'm not prone to picking it up. For context, I play on pretty much every platform (even on a Vita sometimes) and so have some relatively quirky reasons to play things on one system over another.

Glad you're enjoying it. We'll have to race soon! Looks like they fixed the most annoying multiplayer bugs in the patch yesterday.

Once I play some more and get some cars unlocked, I'd love to race.

I'm a little bummed/confused about the way they roll out new cars. I don't mind the collection tiers, but I don't like that they've hidden certain cars away behind showcase events or whatever. I can't buy a Shelby GT350R, one of my favorites from Forza 6, or the 2000 Cobra R (the same body style as my actual Mustang) because they're locked away behind some special event or something (I don't actually understand all of that yet, it brings up a whole list of shit that could potentially unlock it).

I have elite dangerous as well. I had fun with it at first but at a certain point I hit a grind plateau. Some people refer to elite dangerous as space trucker for a reason. I think it’s a lot more fun to play with others and I don’t have that many friends playing it at the moment.

So I've watched some videos on this game now, and it looks cool.

I'll be playing Forza 7 for a while still, I think, but I'm looking at Subnautica or Elite Dangerous next. I just can't figure out if Elite Dangerous will actually be fun or not. It looks really cool and like something I'd like to try, but I'm still on the fence.

ED is a huge time suck and absolutely not for everyone. It can be, and frequently is, a lot of long stretches of jumping from system to system and relative inactivity punctuated by gorgeous sights and some wicked combat. Things have improved economy wise since I jumped in about two years back, but it's still a long haul to get the credits you need to buy some of the best ships and then the upgrades and engineering needed to truly make them shine. Be prepared to do a lot of cargo runs and Community Goals until you get good (or at least less likely to die as soon as anyone looks at you) at combat. I also like to tell people it has less of a learning curve, and more of a learning wall (Though I'm told, much like the economy, the same is true of the tutorials. They're loads better now than when I jumped in). You're gonna fumble for what feels like ages before the controls and basic menial tasks like docking or basic navigation or plotting a course are comfortable.

That aside, if you like the idea of owning your own ship and doing whatever you please, where ever you please, in the entirety of the Milky Way, you can't go wrong. The game is really what you make of it.

Few last tips if you do decide to buy it:
- Play in Solo or join a friendly Private group until you learn your ship. Public can be awesome, but in a galaxy where anyone can do whatever they want, griefing and trolling is regular occurance.
- Find someone, or a couple someones, to wing up with while you're learning. Having a wingmate with experience in a fully kitted ship makes learning much easier.
- Think about crewing up with someone for your first couple combat experiences. You'll get put in a Fighter or be a Gunner, and reap rewards with zero risk to yourself. It's also an excellent way to get a handle on basic flight (if you can manage a fighter, you can fly anything) and get a feel for the ebb and flow of combat zones.
- Prepare your wallet. Once you settle into a ship, you're gonna want to make it yours. That means shipkits, paintjobs, nameplates, bobbleheads and engine/weapon colors. There's always a case to be made against microtransactions, but I think Frontier has done it in a way that doesn't feel shitty. You don't need any of it and can opt to never even know it exists, but they're fairly reasonably priced items that make your ship feel like YOUR ship.
- If you're ever looking for wingmates, drop me a line! I've got a small group I fly with on a fairly regular basis and it's never not fun getting a full wing together!

I really enjoy Elite Dangerous, even more than I anticipated. I saved up enough for a Cobra Mk. III, and it's cool. I put a passenger compartment in and have been doing passenger missions, and I just started taking illegal passengers on long tourism journeys, which has been interesting. It's honestly strange how compelling taking a passenger to some out of the way spot 200 LY away is. It's a long journey that really is a whole bunch of nothing and repeated jumps, but I really enjoy it. I'm looking into saving up for something else to deck out for deep space exploration, so I can then kit out something else (maybe the Cobra) to hunt some bounties.

I'm going to give it another week or two before I make the decision, but I honestly am enjoying the game enough that I'm looking into getting the HOTAS for it. I also really want to get a decent wheel set up for Forza 7, which I keep dipping back into. I don't have a bunch of room, so I'm looking at custom set ups and trying to design one that can incorporate a chair with the HOTAS mounted on either side, just like the cockpit in Elite, with a wheel setup as well that can be moved and stored in the corner when not in use. I don't have the floor space for a permanent station, but making something that can be moved without a bunch of setup and tear down, while also storing at least somewhat neatly looks like a bit of a challenge, but there are some good ideas floating around out there.

I didn't realize this, but they're updating it.

It will include visual enhancements for Xbox One X.

Already the 360 games look great, so I'm curious.

I'll be interested if it means I can finally play Halo 2 Anniversary in coop.

Because I haven't, not ever, not once, no matter what I do, been able to get into a coop game.

Really? I ask because I thought I did that. I'd be willing to experiment any time.

- No text -

Avateur posts only when he sees an opportunity to express his irrational visceral hatred of 343. [yawn]

Thanks!

I actually read that last night before posting (I remembered someone posting about it), but there weren’t many other thoughts in that thread, so I was looking for some other impressions now that it’s been around a while. I downloaded the app and stated the trial. I don’t notice a huge difference in Elite (things do sound a little punchier maybe? Or maybe I’m just focusing too much and looking for a difference). I also redownloaded Rise of the Tomb Raider which has official support, so I think I’ll play a bit of that tonight.

I can't seem to decide what to play right now. It's one of those weird stretches where nothing seems to fit.

Have you tried any old games off my 101 games list?

I never played Bayonetta, but I've meaning to get the Bayonetta 1+2 package on Switch. I haven't made the time for it yet, but I will.