Tomb Raider

I wish they would figure out that video game movies suck because they pick the wrong games to adapt.

Tomb Raider blew. Not even in a so-bad-it's-good way. Also weird how they hired 30 Laura crofts to show up. Like, why stop at one! And some were blonde. WTF? Proof Warner Bros is clueless :-p

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Disappointing, though I can’t say I’m surprised. I wrote it off the moment I heard it was being made, but I was considering giving it a shot if I heard good things. Guess this is a nope! As for Warner Bros, they’re pretty clueless with a lot of properties in the gaming and comics world. I do my best not to give them my time or money with gaming or DC (Wonder Woman is an exception).

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A few questions for ya:

What reasons do you think it was bad? Did it:

Have a bad plot?
Have bad acting?
Have bad graphics?
Have bad sound mixing?
Stray too far from Tomb Raider (2013) which it seemed to be inspired by?
Stick too close to Tomb Raider (2013) which it seemed to be inspired by?
Have a bad ending?
Did you actually see the movie?

I think we all agree that video game movies have been overwhelmingly bad over the years, but as a review or even a quick bit of advice, your post was pretty unhelpful.

Therefore, I’m holding onto this until you actually make a real effort to convince me otherwise:

For everyone else, I’m quite familiar with Tomb Raider (2013) and Rise of the Tomb Raider. I’ll get you a proper review of this movie Friday evening... unless Cody can beat me to it. Game on. :)

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A few questions for ya:

What reasons do you think it was bad? Did it:

Didn't really want to post a ton of spoilers before Friday, but if you insist.

Right from the beginning nothing made sense to me. Don't accept your inheritance because you don't want to believe your dad's dead, but then don't really make a huge effort to find him or anything? Uh huh. Nathan Drake was charming and a pleasure to watch. this Laura Croft was… not. For me, the flashbacks weren't really that effective at deepening her character. Also, for all the talk about female power and badassery, she was being saved by everyone else really often, and always crying.

Remember when I thought zombies in Uncharted were stupid? It's equally dumb here. I don't care if they aren't 'real' zombies, it's still stupid. You can pretty much predict everything that's going to happen with her father right from the start.

Have a bad plot?

Not bad, but just predictable. It's all played very straight, instead of being a little fun about it given it's all so similar to Uncharted / Indy. Archaeological find with a 'curse' explained scientifically? Yawn. At least in Indy they were real 'magic'.

[*]Have bad acting?

Not really bad, just passable. Nathan Drake and Wonder Woman were fun to watch. I just couldn't get invested.

[*]Have bad graphics?

Sort of. The CG work was not the best.

[*]Have bad sound mixing?

Actually decent.

[*]Stray too far from Tomb Raider (2013) which it seemed to be inspired by?
[*]Stick too close to Tomb Raider (2013) which it seemed to be inspired by?

Only played it for an hour before giving up, so I can't comment.

[*]Have a bad ~~ending?~~ Editing?

Yes, holy shit. Hard to tell if it was bad directing and staging and they were making up for that, but everything was cut quickly and chaotic. Even something like Atomic Blonde was way better in this department.

[*]Did you actually see the movie?

I did!

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Currently.

Destiny, LIS, Tomb Raider. Those two games were awesome.

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Currently.

Destiny, LIS, Tomb Raider. Those two games were awesome.

I'm all for personal opinions, but... You need to play way more games, man...

Tomb Raider alone:

Better characters and writing? Uncharted series.
Better gameplay, plot, visuals, quests, everything? Horizon Zero Dawn series (I know, one game and a standalone expansion don't make a series, but, it's 2-for-2 on great releases, so...)

That said, while Rise of the Tomb Raider was a fairly big letdown, Tomb Raider was easily one of my favorite games of the last generation, so this film was one that I was sure not to get excited for. Sucks to see the reboot series stagnate so quickly, when they got off to a phenomenal start...

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Rise of the Tomb Raider was a great game. Sure the story was bad, but that’s also true of the 2013 reboot, and Rise of The Tomb Raider had better locations and encounters (with the exception of that fucking helicopter).

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Weird how I need to play more games and your rebuttal to my opinion that it's the best current series is one game series which is over and another game series which is one game, hence not a series.

You couldn't even make up an opinion that qualified.

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Better gameplay, plot, visuals, quests, everything? Horizon Zero Dawn series (I know, one game and a standalone expansion don't make a series, but, it's 2-for-2 on great releases, so...)

After being initially impressed with HZD, it's now starting to feel… kinda bad. I should finish the game and make a review for discussion, but I am seriously wondering why I'm not impressed. Strong start, but I have no motivation to even finish.

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Better gameplay, plot, visuals, quests, everything? Horizon Zero Dawn series (I know, one game and a standalone expansion don't make a series, but, it's 2-for-2 on great releases, so...)

After being initially impressed with HZD, it's now starting to feel… kinda bad. I should finish the game and make a review for discussion, but I am seriously wondering why I'm not impressed. Strong start, but I have no motivation to even finish.

I'd like to hear your thoughts.

I love HZD, but I also sort of see where you're coming from. There's something sort of odd or off about it, something I can't quite articulate or put my finger on.

Any update on Dishonored?

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Any update on Dishonored?

On hold until I get the PC version.

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Are you waiting for a sale or just haven't made time for it?

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Are you waiting for a sale or just haven't made time for it?

No time whatsoever.

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While I do not in any way personally fault HZD for this, there was a weird ephemeral or liminal feeling to a lot of the game structure. Like a parallel development, where something reaches a similar conclusion or adaptation through entirely separate stimuli. It is both familiar but otherly. It is hard to really express that sensation. And after the initial luster the uncanny valley-like feeling where it is just different enough to feel weird relative to its contemporaries not everyone enjoys the result as much.

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Hit a difficulty spike in HZD and haven't gone back. Trying to find the motivation. Someone with a Bigarm spoiled the ending for me a little. I want to play it again, but I haven't yet.

Bought the new Tomb Raiders based on visuals and hype. Didn't get too far in the first one. (Sorry, stabbim. I'll trade you a Tomb Raider playthrough for a Last of Us playthrough.)

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Currently.

Destiny, LIS, Tomb Raider. Those two games were awesome.

I'm all for personal opinions, but... You need to play way more games, man...

Tomb Raider alone:

Better characters and writing? Uncharted series.
Better gameplay, plot, visuals, quests, everything? Horizon Zero Dawn series (I know, one game and a standalone expansion don't make a series, but, it's 2-for-2 on great releases, so...)

Heh. That, like, just your opinion, man. I’ve played through both the modern Tomb Raiders multiple times and enjoyed the heck out of them. HZ:D was... good. But it got tedious to me after a while. I never finished. And I finish pretty much every single game I start.

That said, while Rise of the Tomb Raider was a fairly big letdown, Tomb Raider was easily one of my favorite games of the last generation, so this film was one that I was sure not to get excited for. Sucks to see the reboot series stagnate so quickly, when they got off to a phenomenal start...

I think Rise’s story was slightly weaker, (mainly why did this undead army stay around their ruins without an island keeping them in place?), but to say it stagnated the series is crazy talk! Rise had excellent gameplay, some nice open world components, is still one of the best looking games around, and had both a strong wrap up and tease at the end of the main game, and a fun, detailed side story in the DLC surrounding Lara Croft’s mansion.

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Currently.

Destiny, LIS, Tomb Raider. Those two games were awesome.

I'm all for personal opinions, but... You need to play way more games, man...

Tomb Raider alone:

Better characters and writing? Uncharted series.
Better gameplay, plot, visuals, quests, everything? Horizon Zero Dawn series (I know, one game and a standalone expansion don't make a series, but, it's 2-for-2 on great releases, so...)

That said, while Rise of the Tomb Raider was a fairly big letdown, Tomb Raider was easily one of my favorite games of the last generation, so this film was one that I was sure not to get excited for. Sucks to see the reboot series stagnate so quickly, when they got off to a phenomenal start...

I still hold the 2013 Tomb Raider in extremely high regard. I see where you’re coming from with the Uncharted/HZD comparisons, but breaking down the game that way is misleading, because it ignores the whole “sum of its parts” thing. Uncharted might have better writing and characters, but the gameplay is nowhere near as good as Tomb Raider. TR’s story is silly and over the top, but it fits the style of bombastic action game that they’re going for. And it’s well executed for what it is.

And on the gameplay front, you know how much I adore HZD, but TR’s combat and gameplay is exceptional. More to the point, they’re very different games (aside from the surface-level “female character with a bow & arrow” thing). HZD is an open-world game, through and through. Tomb Raider is a Metroid game. I’d say the closest direct modern comparison would be Batman: Arkham Asylum. Much tighter, linear-ish, with semi-open hub areas interconnected in a progressively more complex network of traversal points.
Rise of the Tomb Raider leans a bit further into “open-world” territory (just as the Arkham sequel, Arkham City, did), and it suffers a bit because of the more blown out nature (again, just like Arkham City).

So I just don’t think it’s accurate to tell someone to play Uncharted and/or HZD instead of Tomb Raider, because TR is a very different experience than either of those other games. Plus, it’s possibly the very best version of a modern Metroid-y game that exists.

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So I just don’t think it’s accurate to tell someone to play Uncharted and/or HZD instead of Tomb Raider, because TR is a very different experience than either of those other games. Plus, it’s possibly the very best version of a modern Metroid-y game that exists.

I didn't tell him to play those instead, just that he should if he considers Tomb Raider one of the "top three game series". It means that he's clearly missing out on easily superior games/franchises (and that's without mentioning something like The Witcher, Dead Space (How's that for Metroid-y?), or Mass Effect).

That said, I played through not just the main RotTR campaign, but every bit of DLC for it, and pretty much everything (except the excellent Baba Yaga DLC) felt like a half-baked and tacked-on experience, and that's without even getting to the microtransaction-based card system. I'm pretty sure I Platinum'd the game, though, so I'm not saying that it was bad, per se, just extremely disappointing after the first game did everything so well. Plus, they butchered Lara's character. She went from determined and increasingly fierce in the first game, to being whiny and having a furrowed brow while she said practically anything. Only a few scenes had some of that "Tomb Raider Lara" from the first game.

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So I just don’t think it’s accurate to tell someone to play Uncharted and/or HZD instead of Tomb Raider, because TR is a very different experience than either of those other games. Plus, it’s possibly the very best version of a modern Metroid-y game that exists.

I didn't tell him to play those instead, just that he should if he considers Tomb Raider one of the "top three game series". It means that he's clearly missing out on easily superior games/franchises (and that's without mentioning something like The Witcher, Dead Space (How's that for Metroid-y?), or Mass Effect).

That said, I played through not just the main RotTR campaign, but every bit of DLC for it, and pretty much everything (except the excellent Baba Yaga DLC) felt like a half-baked and tacked-on experience, and that's without even getting to the microtransaction-based card system. I'm pretty sure I Platinum'd the game, though, so I'm not saying that it was bad, per se, just extremely disappointing after the first game did everything so well. Plus, they butchered Lara's character. She went from determined and increasingly fierce in the first game, to being whiny and having a furrowed brow while she said practically anything. Only a few scenes had some of that "Tomb Raider Lara" from the first game.

Yeah I’m not a particularly big fan of RotTR. There’s lots of great stuff in the game, but that’s because they were coming from an exceptional starting point with the previous game. I don’t think there’s anything about RotTR that was an improvement over TR... everything in the game was on par at best, or a in most cases, a step down to one degree or another.

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I would have to disagree with all three of your examples as being “better series or franchises.” Tempered that they all have really, really strong aspects to them they aren’t without huge missteps. Dead Space, specifically, had one great game and some passable money-chasing offerings. The Ben Templesmith comics are the only other aspect of the property I would hold up to the level of the first game. I have less to say regarding The Witcher, but I wasn’t particularly impressed for their first two outings. My feelings on Mass Effect are probably more aptly treated as a bomb ready to go off. ME specifically tends to have most of its flaws as a series overlooked for the level of investment players have input.

As game series go, I think the quality of the overall packages from TR13 and RotTR are far away better than the overall packages (with exceptions) of most recent series. Obviously, ymmv if you are looking at a specific feature of games where other series excel at the expense of provided a robust experience. And I am definitely looking forward to what Shadow brings to the table. Though as said RotTR had big boots to fill, I don’t think it faultered nearly as much as DS or ME and started on a much higher note than tW.

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I would have to disagree with all three of your examples as being “better series or franchises.” Tempered that they all have really, really strong aspects to them they aren’t without huge missteps. Dead Space, specifically, had one great game and some passable money-chasing offerings.

Whoah, to say that Dead Space 2 was a "money-chasing offering" is to do a pretty huge disservice to a sequel that did everything a good sequel should. It was bigger, it expanded the gameplay and enemy roster, it explored the world more, and the gameplay itself had waaaaaay less backtracking than the first game, opting for more unique locales and setpieces. I love the first Dead Space (played it religiously, Altman be praised), but even I concede that Dead Space 2 is technically superior on pretty much every level except for horror atmosphere (unless you play it on Hard Core, which caused me so much stress at every single corner).
Sure, the third game was a bit of a letdown, coming off of two amazing games, but it was a great co-op experience.

Even Dead Space: Extraction was a great entry in the Franchise, and that was a rail-shooter.

The Ben Templesmith comics are the only other aspect of the property I would hold up to the level of the first game.

+1 for Templesmith. His art style alone inherently nails the Dead Space atmosphere...

As game series go, I think the quality of the overall packages from TR13 and RotTR are far away better than the overall packages (with exceptions) of most recent series. Obviously, ymmv if you are looking at a specific feature of games where other series excel at the expense of provided a robust experience. And I am definitely looking forward to what Shadow brings to the table. Though as said RotTR had big boots to fill, I don’t think it faultered nearly as much as DS or ME and started on a much higher note than tW.

Maybe, although the same could be said of the Uncharted series, which has always had meh-to-pretty okay controls and gunplay, but nails pretty much everything else, and is a series that has consistently only ever gotten better (as much as people like to hail Uncharted 2 as the series' magnum opus). The overall package totally excuses the often-mediocre gunplay.

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Daed Soace 2 was technically more proficient, and added content as anticipated. But the encounter deisgn, weapon character, and balance between build and pay off were distinctly not improvements in DS2. It loses most of what made Dead Space good as an overall package. Added stress and simplified combat doesn’t really make up for gutting most of the actual horror atmosphere. The tension in DS2 is cheap and shock. Extraction may have been a good rail shooter, but I wouldn’t consider it a great Dead Space game. (Just to illustrate more clearly where I am coming from [hopefully])

Re: Uncharted, I don’t think that the overall experiences makes up for the weak end of it’s core action experience. I know that this is not the popular opinion. But Uncharted games have never been all that fun to play. The core loop is disappointing, and I don’t think the characters/story/set pieces/etc. make up for it in a way that doesn’t reduce the overall experience. Spec Ops: The Line is a good example of a game that does a lot of things well but has shitty gameplay (by design the gameplay is middling to not detract from the narrative) that does bring down the complete experience.

I mean, I don’t agree with the prior top 3 list. Mostly I think new!TR is a much better overall experience than it iften gets credit for.

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It seems widely acknowledged that Witcher 1 & 2 had some quality points and perhaps good story beats, but it wasn’t until Witcher 3 that everything really came together. I can personally attest to this in that Witcher 2’s tutorial was so bad that I quit then deleted the game.

But Witcher 3? It is probably my pick for “game of the generation” and near the top of my “top games of all time ever” list. If you never played it because the other two didn’t feel right, go and try 3. It’s scope and scale in both it’s world and story are just a bit beyond any other game I’ve played.

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3 is great. I haven’t had the time to get through it, but it is a much improved experience iver 1/2. But in the context of series as a whole I don’t feel I can consider it on its lonesome. Totally looking forward to Cyberpunk news showing up soon. Hopefully soon.

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CDProjekt Red is already confirmed to be at E3. Hopefully they show Cyberpunk and aren’t just there for Gwent.

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It seems widely acknowledged that Witcher 1 & 2 had some quality points and perhaps good story beats, but it wasn’t until Witcher 3 that everything really came together. I can personally attest to this in that Witcher 2’s tutorial was so bad that I quit then deleted the game.

I’d urge you to reconsider and give it another shot. And I’m the guy that absolutely hates slow or bad beginnings to games (The Order 1886, MGS V). The Witcher 2 does a lot right, arguably even better than TW3. The levels are amazingly detailed and interesting, in particular. Nothing in TW3 quite matches the Flotsam forest.

But Witcher 3? It is probably my pick for “game of the generation” and near the top of my “top games of all time ever” list. If you never played it because the other two didn’t feel right, go and try 3. It’s scope and scale in both it’s world and story are just a bit beyond any other game I’ve played.

Ditto. I suspect that HZD doesn’t feel quite right to me in part because I’m always still thinking about The Witcher 3.

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I would have to disagree with all three of your examples as being “better series or franchises.”

Mario.
Halo.
Metal Gear Solid.

Can't disagree with that!

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CG rather than gameplay, unfortunately, but we'll certainly see it at E3. I think both Tomb Raider and Rise of the Tomb Raider were good, if not great, games, and I'll totally play another one, dopey story and all.

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New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

HZD and Feel

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

+11

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

Witcher

Witcher

Witcher

Witcher

New Tomb Raider games are easily the third best game series.

Is that a challenge? :3c

If it is, I want in. :p

Me too :)

Related: Shadow of the Tomb Raider September 14, 2018