Trespassing (Destiny)
by Cody Miller 
, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, May 22, 2018, 18:34 (2226 days ago)
The Leviathan raid is fun enough, but something about it has always bugged me. The issue is permission.
See, all previous raids have been intrusions into enemy lairs. You break in, then go deeper and deeper. The resistance and challenge gets more and more. You aren't supposed to be there. This of course gives it a mystique and a purpose to the exploration. There's just something very cool about being deep inside an enemy stronghold, be that the Vault of Glass, Oryx's / Crota's Throne Room, the SIVA chamber, or what have you. Because you aren't supposed to be there, progressing feels like you are earning it and forging your own way, forging into the unknown that you aren't supposed to have.
Leviathan is set up differently. You have permission. Almost an invitation. You aren't forging ahead into hostile territory but are playing games created explicitly for you. Finish one, then hop on over to the other. The order doesn't matter. The games could even change, and the result would still be the same. Even Robocalus himself was created as part of the game for you.
There's no feeling of trespass.
Argos was better in this regard. He isn't supposed to be there, and you have to infiltrate his domain with a sense of actual resistance. The fight kicks ass. But I still think it was slightly mishandled. Why are we fighting cabal up to that point? Don't they want us to kill Argos? Why weren't Vex pouring onto the Leviathan and fighting us instead?
I have no clue about the new raid lair until we do it in a few weeks. But I very much hope we have to break and enter.
Almost an invitation.
Not "almost." The collector's edition of the game comes with a literal invitation from Calus.
As for the rest, I do agree, to an extent. I quite like what they did with Leviathan in that regard, and it makes the whole thing make sense in-universe in a cool way. I also like the way Eater or Worlds works. It reminds me of Portal, a bit. It's like the moment when you go in the walls, break away that facade of the tests you've been participating in. Eater of Worlds sort of felt like that--we break out of the games, delve deeper into the Leviathan and see it's true purpose.
I'm eager to see what the new lair holds for us.
Trespassing
by Ragashingo 
, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, May 22, 2018, 19:16 (2226 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Read the lore on the Raid armors, especially the newest ones once you get them. In a nutshell, Calus is looking for Guardians to help him reach the end of everything. So he’s toying with us, testing us, urging us to overcome his challenges. He wants us to “grow fat from strength” so we can better serve him.
Trespassing
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, May 22, 2018, 20:50 (2226 days ago) @ Ragashingo
Read the lore on the Raid armors, especially the newest ones once you get them. In a nutshell, Calus is looking for Guardians to help him reach the end of everything. So he’s toying with us, testing us, urging us to overcome his challenges. He wants us to “grow fat from strength” so we can better serve him.
I know this… that's the whole point of the post… this raid is a test. A game. It's 'meant' to happen.
Trespassing
by MacAddictXIV , Seattle WA, Wednesday, May 23, 2018, 06:13 (2226 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Read the lore on the Raid armors, especially the newest ones once you get them. In a nutshell, Calus is looking for Guardians to help him reach the end of everything. So he’s toying with us, testing us, urging us to overcome his challenges. He wants us to “grow fat from strength” so we can better serve him.
I know this… that's the whole point of the post… this raid is a test. A game. It's 'meant' to happen.
I liked it for the very fact that it IS an invitation. That is almost far creepier than any hive lair. To me, it's a different kind of on edge. I'll put it a different way:
Using Batman.
1. Batman raids one of penguins warehouses with all his goons to stop something illegal and maybe find penguin there.
or
2. Batman is invited to have tea with the Joker.
In the second case I would be scared shitless as you don't know what's going to happen and you are walking into the enemies fortress.
In the leviathan I get a sense of "Am I being played? or am I one step ahead?" It's like you are playing Chess with Calus.
Trespassing
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, May 23, 2018, 06:18 (2226 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV
2. Batman is invited to have tea with the Joker.
The joker isn't looking to test batman to try to recruit him. He'd be trying to kill / distract or manipulate him into doing something evil. I never got the sense we were in any 'real' danger with Calus.
Trespassing
by MacAddictXIV , Seattle WA, Wednesday, May 23, 2018, 06:23 (2226 days ago) @ Cody Miller
2. Batman is invited to have tea with the Joker.
The joker isn't looking to test batman to try to recruit him. He'd be trying to kill / distract or manipulate him into doing something evil. I never got the sense we were in any 'real' danger with Calus.
That's the thing about Calus, I have no idea what he wants from us, that's what makes him even more diabolical in my mind. This is also why mentioned the Joker. They both have a sense of wtf is going to happen next. Does Calus want to be our friend? Save his life? Play around with us for amusement? Do his bidding?
I. Just. Don't. Know.
And that is what makes him such a great villain. The Hive? They want to end all life. The Vex? They want to simulate everything. The Cabal? They want to conquer the universe.
Trespassing
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, May 23, 2018, 06:27 (2226 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV
2. Batman is invited to have tea with the Joker.
The joker isn't looking to test batman to try to recruit him. He'd be trying to kill / distract or manipulate him into doing something evil. I never got the sense we were in any 'real' danger with Calus.
That's the thing about Calus, I have no idea what he wants from us, that's what makes him even more diabolical in my mind. This is also why mentioned the Joker. They both have a sense of wtf is going to happen next. Does Calus want to be our friend? Save his life? Play around with us for amusement? Do his bidding?
I guess I never thought about it that way.
But of course nobody else in the story / game ever mentions their thoughts on Calus… so there's no context at all. You'd think the Vanguard would be curious or something, especially with his agent in the tower. It doesn't help the story when past events don't influence the present.
Trespassing
by MacAddictXIV , Seattle WA, Wednesday, May 23, 2018, 06:37 (2226 days ago) @ Cody Miller
2. Batman is invited to have tea with the Joker.
The joker isn't looking to test batman to try to recruit him. He'd be trying to kill / distract or manipulate him into doing something evil. I never got the sense we were in any 'real' danger with Calus.
That's the thing about Calus, I have no idea what he wants from us, that's what makes him even more diabolical in my mind. This is also why mentioned the Joker. They both have a sense of wtf is going to happen next. Does Calus want to be our friend? Save his life? Play around with us for amusement? Do his bidding?
I guess I never thought about it that way.But of course nobody else in the story / game ever mentions their thoughts on Calus… so there's no context at all. You'd think the Vanguard would be curious or something, especially with his agent in the tower. It doesn't help the story when past events don't influence the present.
This is true, but Calus is kinda a new player isn't he? I mean we didn't really know much about Cabal royalty, heck I don't think we still do. And he was cast out of the higher circles of Cabal politics right? I could be way off on that though. So he kinda is a new player in this whole thing. This is our first experience with him.
I also guess that fact that no one else mentions Calus is kinda odd. Even if it was small snippets of something. I always envisions Calus as some high political power in the Cabal system but recently he got thrown out or deposed and so he is trying to get us to do his bidding instead. So this is like his first time out on the town.
Trespassing
by Malagate , Sea of Tranquility, Wednesday, May 23, 2018, 08:15 (2226 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV
But of course nobody else in the story / game ever mentions their thoughts on Calus… so there's no context at all. You'd think the Vanguard would be curious or something, especially with his agent in the tower. It doesn't help the story when past events don't influence the present.
Well, the agent is supposedly embedded undercover, right? It's a clandestine thing, for him to be "recruiting" our services. Otherwise, there should be some kind of rapport between Calus and the Vanguard. And, by extension, the Traveler.
But, to your point, right here is where I think the chosen format for presenting the Destiny experience snags a little. We have no interplay of characters whenever there is new information presented. There's little in the way of causality of the larger narrative, if one can really say there is one. We have...embellishments on bits of canon we already knew existed; but nothing really matters, because nothing changes. All content is self-contained in discrete chunks, so no chapter of DLC depends on any other. Context feels tenuous at best.
This is true, but Calus is kinda a new player isn't he? I mean we didn't really know much about Cabal royalty, heck I don't think we still do. And he was cast out of the higher circles of Cabal politics right? I could be way off on that though. So he kinda is a new player in this whole thing. This is our first experience with him.
We do know that he's got his own vector though, right? His purposes are not the Cabal's; nor are they the Traveler's. He's ultimately in it for himself; he just wants to use our power as Guardians to achieve his ends. Which is why there's no relationship established with the Vanguard. Or at least that's how I understand it.
M
We do know that he's got his own vector though, right? His purposes are not the Cabal's; nor are they the Traveler's. He's ultimately in it for himself; he just wants to use our power as Guardians to achieve his ends. Which is why there's no relationship established with the Vanguard. Or at least that's how I understand it.
M
Yeah, I kinda see him as the wild card. I don't know his true intentions other than he feels kinda slighted by the rest of the Cabal? I don't know if he wants to get back into power with the Cabal or wipe them out!
Trespassing
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, May 23, 2018, 08:48 (2226 days ago) @ Malagate
But of course nobody else in the story / game ever mentions their thoughts on Calus… so there's no context at all. You'd think the Vanguard would be curious or something, especially with his agent in the tower. It doesn't help the story when past events don't influence the present.
Well, the agent is supposedly embedded undercover, right? It's a clandestine thing, for him to be "recruiting" our services. Otherwise, there should be some kind of rapport between Calus and the Vanguard. And, by extension, the Traveler.But, to your point, right here is where I think the chosen format for presenting the Destiny experience snags a little. We have no interplay of characters whenever there is new information presented. There's little in the way of causality of the larger narrative, if one can really say there is one. We have...embellishments on bits of canon we already knew existed; but nothing really matters, because nothing changes. All content is self-contained in discrete chunks, so no chapter of DLC depends on any other. Context feels tenuous at best.
This is true, but Calus is kinda a new player isn't he? I mean we didn't really know much about Cabal royalty, heck I don't think we still do. And he was cast out of the higher circles of Cabal politics right? I could be way off on that though. So he kinda is a new player in this whole thing. This is our first experience with him.
We do know that he's got his own vector though, right? His purposes are not the Cabal's; nor are they the Traveler's. He's ultimately in it for himself; he just wants to use our power as Guardians to achieve his ends. Which is why there's no relationship established with the Vanguard. Or at least that's how I understand it.M
Ohh I get it now. We can't tell the Vanguard about him because… we don't speak! :-p
Bravo.
by Malagate , Sea of Tranquility, Wednesday, May 23, 2018, 09:00 (2226 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Ohh I get it now. We can't tell the Vanguard about him because… we don't speak! :-p
Zing!
But yeah, this whole agency-without-agency, or agency-without-a-voice thing gets to me. If the other characters interacted and actually processed new information in dialogue without breezing past it ["don't worry, we got this"], things would not only make more sense, but feel like they mattered.
I guess we're supposed to just believe in the intrinsic worth of humanity because the Traveler chose us; not because we've experienced any real loss or seen actual sacrifice.
When we see Hawthorne or Captain Teatime eat it; that'll be a start.
M
Ohh I get it now. We can't tell the Vanguard about him because… we don't speak! :-p
Zing!But yeah, this whole agency-without-agency, or agency-without-a-voice thing gets to me. If the other characters interacted and actually processed new information in dialogue without breezing past it ["don't worry, we got this"], things would not only make more sense, but feel like they mattered.
I guess we're supposed to just believe in the intrinsic worth of humanity because the Traveler chose us; not because we've experienced any real loss or seen actual sacrifice.
When we see Hawthorne or Captain Teatime eat it; that'll be a start.
M
Yeah, as soon as we see someone actually die on screen then I might start caring about my mortality. But so far every guardian we have "lost" has been in lore or off screen. Is there a reason why we can't see the light get ripped out of a guardian even if it's just a cut scene?
Trespassing
by MacAddictXIV , Seattle WA, Wednesday, May 23, 2018, 09:01 (2226 days ago) @ Cody Miller
We do know that he's got his own vector though, right? His purposes are not the Cabal's; nor are they the Traveler's. He's ultimately in it for himself; he just wants to use our power as Guardians to achieve his ends. Which is why there's no relationship established with the Vanguard. Or at least that's how I understand it.
M
Ohh I get it now. We can't tell the Vanguard about him because… we don't speak! :-p
Hahaha. We could have had universal peace if we weren't mute. Turns out that our ghost is great for a lot of things, translation is not his forte.