Not all but notable;

• Cyberpunk 2077
  
• Just Cause 4
  
• Gears Of War 5(And Two Spinoffs)
  
• Battletoads
  
• Cuphead DLC - The Delicious Last Course
  
• Dying Light 2 (Gameplay)
  
• Devil May Cry 5
  
• The Division 2 (Gameplay)
  
• Microsoft Buys Four Independent Studios - Undead Labs, Playground Games, Compulsion, & Ninja Theory.
  
• Forza Horizon 4.
  
• Metro Exodus.
  
• Ori And The Will Of The Wisps
  
• Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
  
• Halo Infinite

Battletoads

Go on …

Fun fact: Embedding Youtube stuffs removes age gates. THE SYSTEM WORKS! :D

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Is this Halo 6? Something else?

It looks interesting, and, although I generally like the 343i art style, it is neat to see a return to the more classic Halo look. I'm assuming this is still really early, because, technically, it doesn't look all that impressive. That shot of the Warthog bombing across the landscape looks like something from last gen almost.

Cyberpunk looks flipping awesome. I mean, obviously we still have no clue what that game actually is based on that trailer, but holy hell I am all the way in. That style is just great.

Dying Light looks great. Metro looks really cool. The Division 2 looks just like more The Division, but it's nice to see some open spaces.

Is this Halo 6? Something else?

It looks interesting, and, although I generally like the 343i art style, it is neat to see a return to the more classic Halo look. I'm assuming this is still really early, because, technically, it doesn't look all that impressive. That shot of the Warthog bombing across the landscape looks like something from last gen almost.

It looks like it is “Halo 6.” From Halo Waypoint. They specifically call out a return to a more classic art style.

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The quality of a lot of the natural stuff, the flora and fauna and water, has got me kinda excited. I'm holding my breath, really, though. I have a very bumpy relationship with 343i products.

The quality of a lot of the natural stuff, the flora and fauna and water, has got me kinda excited. I'm holding my breath, really, though. I have a very bumpy relationship with 343i products.

Oh, parts of it looks really impressive.

After reading that post on Waypoint, it seems clearer. It does seem like it's very early still. I'm optimistic. I've generally like the 343i Halo games, so I don't have any reason to doubt I'll enjoy whatever is next.

Cyberpunk 2077
Battletoads
The Division 2
Metro Exodus
Ori And The Will Of The Wisps
Halo Infinite

And:

Battlefield V
Fallout 76
Kingdom Hearts 3
Crackdown 3
Tunic
Shadow of the Tomb Raider

I'm probably missing out on others. But those were the core of hype for me. The Ori series is beautiful. The only things that would be able to pull harder at that particular tone of my nostalgia strings would be Blaster Master or Earthworm Jim. Halo Infinite is kinda obvious, but the more traditional art style plays on the visual artist in me and what originally drew me to the series. The Division 2 looks like it will be more of the same, in the best kind of learning from their prior release. Crackdown 3 is too long coming. I skipped Crackdown 2, but Terry Crews got me hyped. Metro Exodus, since we don't have any news about STALKER 2 yet, is part of what I need. I guess I should finish up the prior entries. Battlefield V has me interested for the story they are trying to tell now. And Fallout 76 looks like whatever it is that is new they are doing with it I won't be disappointed. 4x the world to explore compared to Fallout 4? Sign me up. I guess I need to wait for the Bethesda brief.

Kingdom Hearts 3 while not entirely new gave me a lot of youthful feels. The story-oriented elements get with them emotions, and that new Utada Hikaru theme? Oh my heart. Also a distinct appreciation of the modern Disney Canon means that trailer is pretty nice.

Tunic is out of nowhere to me, but anything that is refreshingly inspired by traditional Zelda will always be worth my time investment. Made me feel like a kid watching it. Also have a weakness for foxes.

Cyberpunk 2077 and Shadow of the Tomb Raider, though? I have such a torrent of sentiment I can't even really express it. Cyberpunk 2020 and the genre spawned by Gibson are in the root of my being. Tingles. There is so much they showed feels like it will be everything I was hoping for and more. And SotTR looks to be taking what is probably the best ever series reboot and continuing that forward.

I think I should probably tone down the HYPE that this press brief brought me. It just feels so good to be excited about games again, though.

It is a CGI representation of an admission that their art design choices were awful and have been for six years. And apparently Halo 6. Gears 5 in 2019 and already something to show for it. H6 announcement with nothing to show. lol

I am much more concerned about the good things I am hearing about the MCC fixes and was hoping they’d say something about that. I want a fix badly. Then I can come here and post about how 343 did a great thing and proved me wrong and MCC is viable and everyone should play it (and never give them money again for H6 or anything else). Just need a bit more patience. I’m daring to get my hopes up on MCC!

I figure it for a Holiday 2019 release. So yeah. I suppose it's more of a tech demo in some regards. I just temper myself because while I've enjoyed the 343i games, I have not been the biggest fan of how they handled Lore, Characters, Arcs, and to varying degrees Gameplay.

But I give them the benefit of the doubt still because of how big the boots they have had to fill are. Personally I think the is the most HALO of a presentation they've had. And that has me positive in a good way.

• Cyberpunk 2077

[*]Dying Light 2 (Gameplay)

I wanted to play the 1st game, but never got around to it. It's been a while since I played a "your choices matter" game. I've heard good things about how the 1st game was supported, so this seems like I might give this game a shot.

[*]The Division 2 (Gameplay)

I have yet to play the new, improved, and fixed Division 1. I just have no care to. Well, at least there's going to be a beta.

[*]Microsoft Buys Four Independent Studios - Undead Labs, Playground Games, Compulsion, & Ninja Theory.

Good.

[*]Forza Horizon 4.

See "Halo Infinity"

[*]Metro Exodus.

Holy shit this game is realistically beautiful.

[*]Ori And The Will Of The Wisps

Holy shit this game is stylistically beautiful.

[*]Halo Infinite

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that, despite its shortcomings - Destiny and thus Bungie has changed the industry. Again.

Big open social worlds that are no longer limited to MMOs. Forza Horizon 4 has public events? Oh, you don't say. And for Halo Infinite? Well. It's a whole new engine. It's speculation on my part but... "Infinite". Halo... the shared world shooter. If it is truely this, then we have come full circle in a way.

Halo as been inspired by Bungie.

It just feels so good to be excited about games again, though.

I’d add, it feels good to be excited by Microsoft’s gaming future again. The game trailers were great. There was no nonsense or buffooery on stage. And the renewed focus on 1st party was great! The purchase of Ninja Theory, in particular got a wow out of me. Maybe Sony has a great show tomorrow m but I think this was Microsoft’s truly great show since the 360 era.

It’s been over 2077 days since we announced our plan to develop Cyberpunk 2077. We released a CGI trailer, gave some interviews and… went dark. Normal Procedure for these kinds of things - you announce a game and then shut up, roll up your sleeves, and go to work. We wanted to give you The Witcher 3 and both expansions first which is why this period of staying silent was longer than we planned. Sorry for that.

As soon as we concluded work on Blood and Wine, we were able to go full speed ahead with CP2077’s pre-production. But we chose to remain silent. Why? At some point, we made a decision to rescue talking about the game only when we have something to show. Something meaningful and substantial. This is because we do realise you’ve been (im)patiently waiting for a very long time, and we wouldn’t like anyone to feel that we’re taking this for granted. On the contrary - it gives us a lot of extra motivation. The hype is real, so that the sweat and tears need to be real, too :).

But, to the point. Today is the day. If you’re seeing this, it means you saw the trailer - our vision of Cyberpunk, an alternative version of the future where America is in pieces, mega-corporations control all aspects of civilised life, and gangs rule the rest. And, while this world is full of adrenaline, don’t let the car chases and guns mislead you. Cyberpunk 2077 is a true single player, story-driven RPG. You’ll be able to create your own character and… well, you’ll get to know the rest from what we show at our booth at E3. Be on the lookout for the previews!

Before we finish, you probably have some questions, right?

1. When?

When we told you we would only release the game when it’s ready, we meant it. We’re definitely much, much closer to a release date than we were back then :), but it’s still not the time to confirm anything, so patience is still required. Quality is the only thing that drives us - it’s the beauty of being an independent study and your own publisher.

2. How big?

Seriously big, but… to be honest, we have no bloody clue at this point in time. Once we put it all together, we will openly tell you what you can expect. And we promise we’ll do this before we start talking about any pre-orders or ask anything of you.

3. Free DLC/Expansions/DRM?

Expect nothing less than you got with The Witcher 3. As for DRM, DP2077 will be 100% DRM free on PC.

4. Microtransactions?

In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?

Once again, thank you for your patience. If you have a miniute, do visit cyberpunk.net and share your opinion (about anything) with us. We read everything you post and we treat it very seriously.

Yours,

CD PROJEKT RED Team

Cyberpunk 2077 and Shadow of the Tomb Raider, though? I have such a torrent of sentiment I can't even really express it. Cyberpunk 2020 and the genre spawned by Gibson are in the root of my being. Tingles. There is so much they showed feels like it will be everything I was hoping for and more. And SotTR looks to be taking what is probably the best ever series reboot and continuing that forward.

I think I should probably tone down the HYPE that this press brief brought me. It just feels so good to be excited about games again, though.

For Cyberpunk 2077: Yeah. I admit it. When I heard the theme song from the CGI trailer, I yelled at my ceiling with glee. I still need to finish the Witcher 3. Haven't even started the DLCs yet. :/

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- No text -

Is this Halo 6? Something else?

It looks interesting, and, although I generally like the 343i art style, it is neat to see a return to the more classic Halo look.

And that classic Halo sound. The music sounds oh so familiar…

The quality of a lot of the natural stuff, the flora and fauna and water, has got me kinda excited.

Rhinos and not Hippos? Thumbs down.

And the wait continues.

You're not hinting that...

Never mind.

Marty agrees:

Nice music.

— Marty O'Donnell (@MartyTheElder) June 11, 2018

Is this Halo 6? Something else?

It looks interesting, and, although I generally like the 343i art style, it is neat to see a return to the more classic Halo look.

And that classic Halo sound. The music sounds oh so familiar…

... you're such a troll Cody.

Geeze.

So Rico is going to fight a fucking tornado now?!

I’m dead. roflmao

JC4 will be a must-buy for me, no question.

Well, it certainly looks like a reversion back to Halo 1 in style and tone, which is a good thing in my opinion.

Halo 4 and 5 drifted away from the exploration and military sci fi feel of the Bungie series and replaced it with a very COD lite feel. The characters were much more stereotypical and poorly written. The games themselves were pretty but seldom captured the feeling of exploration for set piece battles with forgettable enemies.

I'm not sure they can confine the action to a single Halo ring though, given how they have been writing themselves into a corner with all the AI rebellion and "The Banished" stuff.

Well, it certainly looks like a reversion back to Halo 1 in style and tone, which is a good thing in my opinion.

Halo 4 and 5 drifted away from the exploration and military sci fi feel of the Bungie series and replaced it with a very COD lite feel. The characters were much more stereotypical and poorly written. The games themselves were pretty but seldom captured the feeling of exploration for set piece battles with forgettable enemies.

I'm not sure they can confine the action to a single Halo ring though, given how they have been writing themselves into a corner with all the AI rebellion and "The Banished" stuff.

I'm generally weary when folks take their style and story backwards so to speak. Any time a new game in a franchise comes out that does this, I think it indicates that there's a lack of good ideas moving forward. I have Halos 1-3 already. I want a franchise to move forward not back.

Megaman 8 looked like this:

Megaman 9 looked like this:

It's like… seriously. I hate this trend.

I hate that it feels like the internet bullied 343i into moving back to the old art style. Did they do it because they wanted to, or did they do it because they feel like they need to to make the internet happy. If you’re a fan of something and spend all your time bitching about a new art style or story direction or whatever else, seriously fuck off. It’s happening with Halo, Destiny, Star Wars, just about everything. There’s voicing your criticism, but at a certain point it’s better if you just recognize the series went a direction you don’t like and move on. I’d much rather see a product made with passion, even if I don’t love it, versus a product designed just to make people happy.

All that said, I’m not trying to imply that 343i isn’t passionate or dedicated or excited about this new vision. They probably are! I just hate feeling like the artists and designers are bowing to a bunch of internet fuckwits that throw tantrums because they don’t like something. Even if that’s not what happened, look at the attitude of people about this. Hell, look at the posts on HBO. It’s all “I’m glad 343i realized their shit sucked,” and I just can’t get behind that attitude. And that will always be the narrative now—that 343i fucked up, when what really happened is a bunch of manbabies can’t move on when they don’t like something.

I hate that it feels like the internet bullied 343i into moving back to the old art style. Did they do it because they wanted to, or did they do it because they feel like they need to to make the internet happy. If you’re a fan of something and spend all your time bitching about a new art style or story direction or whatever else, seriously fuck off. It’s happening with Halo, Destiny, Star Wars, just about everything. There’s voicing your criticism, but at a certain point it’s better if you just recognize the series went a direction you don’t like and move on. I’d much rather see a product made with passion, even if I don’t love it, versus a product designed just to make people happy.

I totally agree with this. And we don't know yet whether this is a step back to Halo 1 in a good way because that's where they want the direction to go. I mean, it's going back to a halo, so that might be the aesthetic they want and they are doubling down. Only time and the developers perspective can enlighten us on this.

I for one am excited because I know I liked Halo 1 and if they get some of the feeling back from what I got from Halo 1, great, I'm all for it. But I know they can't reproduce Halo 1 and that's perfectly okay with me. I don't want them to remake Halo 1 or 2 or even 3. I want a Halo that I love.

All that said, I’m not trying to imply that 343i isn’t passionate or dedicated or excited about this new vision. They probably are! I just hate feeling like the artists and designers are bowing to a bunch of internet fuckwits that throw tantrums because they don’t like something. Even if that’s not what happened, look at the attitude of people about this. Hell, look at the posts on HBO. It’s all “I’m glad 343i realized their shit sucked,” and I just can’t get behind that attitude. And that will always be the narrative now—that 343i fucked up, when what really happened is a bunch of manbabies can’t move on when they don’t like something.

I'm just not touching this. I understand the passion and emotions that are involved, but regardless of whether it's true or untrue, I would rather have a conversation about a topic that doesn't involve slandering people in the process.

I hate that it feels like the internet bullied 343i into moving back to the old art style. Did they do it because they wanted to, or did they do it because they feel like they need to to make the internet happy. If you’re a fan of something and spend all your time bitching about a new art style or story direction or whatever else, seriously fuck off. It’s happening with Halo, Destiny, Star Wars, just about everything. There’s voicing your criticism, but at a certain point it’s better if you just recognize the series went a direction you don’t like and move on. I’d much rather see a product made with passion, even if I don’t love it, versus a product designed just to make people happy.

All that said, I’m not trying to imply that 343i isn’t passionate or dedicated or excited about this new vision. They probably are! I just hate feeling like the artists and designers are bowing to a bunch of internet fuckwits that throw tantrums because they don’t like something. Even if that’s not what happened, look at the attitude of people about this. Hell, look at the posts on HBO. It’s all “I’m glad 343i realized their shit sucked,” and I just can’t get behind that attitude. And that will always be the narrative now—that 343i fucked up, when what really happened is a bunch of manbabies can’t move on when they don’t like something.

I strongly disliked just about everything 343i did to Halo. The art style, the revised Forerunner, the bringing in of a new Spartan team, the Hunt The Truth marketing that lied about the direction of the game. But I also almost entirely moved on. I haven't made a post at HBO in a long time. Maybe years. I saw Halo as a thing that changed too much for me to love so I found something new and didn't bother those that liked the new direction.

Am I too an internet fuckwit? Or is there room for people like me who are happy to see a return of the style we grew up with and loved? I'm fine with disliking people who hang around just to complain, but I think you have to allow and respect those that stated their dislike then went somewhere else.

... it's from Music of the Spheres!

Looks amazing.
It's an engine demo, but it pulls that more traditional Halo "look" with higher fidelity off quite well IMO.
A nice safe reveal. Good job 343! Take your time, but I'm excited to see more.

Sadly the voicing of legitimate concerns is often lumped with the bullying and abuse and in this context the “accept change or move on” is harmful to the community at large. Deligitimizing rational and passionate criticisms hurt the property and the community.

The vitriol spitters that have made me stop calling myself a Star Wars fan haven’t stopped me from loving and being critical of Star Wars. I refuse to let Halo be any different. 343i has done a lot of things that the community has legitimate complaints about from lore, art, and gameplay perspectives.

Am I too an internet fuckwit?

Do you repeatedly jump in every time Halo is mentioned to rant about how much 343i sucks? Then, no. But that is happening all over the internet and has been for years.

Or is there room for people like me who are happy to see a return of the style we grew up with and loved? I'm fine with disliking people who hang around just to complain, but I think you have to allow and respect those that stated their dislike then went somewhere else.

I’m fine with folks that disliked 343i Halo. I’m fine with folks being excited about a return to a classic art style. Hell, I’m excited. I’m bummed that it feels like 343i just got beat down by the internet mob. It’s that same sort of folks that harassed the actress from The Last Jedi enough that she quit social media.

Yes, I’m aware that my post was hyperbole and over-generalizations, but you and I both know I wasn’t talking about folks with reasonable complaints and the willingness to have a discussion. It’s the people that just want to be loud and can’t let go of the fact that 343i had a different idea about where Halo should go.

It’s also totally okay for 343i to react to those people and revise the direction of Halo. My real problem is the “we won! 343i sucks and we beat them into submission!” attitude that really bums me out. It’s happening in basically every fandom now, and it sucks, and I hate seeing those people feel like they won.

Maybe I’m just overestimating how negative those people were and the amount of general harassment that happened because of it, but I doubt it.

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Sadly the voicing of legitimate concerns is often lumped with the bullying and abuse and in this context the “accept change or move on” is harmful to the community at large. Deligitimizing rational and passionate criticisms hurt the property and the community.

In certain respects sure. But for the art style? At a certain point, let 343i use the art style they want to use. They’re artists, let them make art. By all means, voice your criticisms. We know now that it worked, but what was the cost? I legitimately don’t know, but I think bowing to the internet mobs is potentially just as damaging as sometimes just letting the people that are mad just be mad.

I’m basically with Raga in that I didn’t dig where Halo went and just moved on. I think I might have made a post or two about the narrative, but that’s really it.

But it’s more along the lines of living in the past rather than moving forward with something new. You might be able to capitalize on the nostalgia, but the way Halo felt, looked, and played is really a product of its time. Halo played and looked great, but there are games now that play and look better. Part of this is advancing tech, but part of it is the collective knowledge about what feels good to play.

When you forge ahead you can create an experience for the ages. When you move back into nostalgia, you create an experience for the moment.

... it's from Music of the Spheres!

More like music of the rings :-p

I hate that it feels like the internet bullied 343i into moving back to the old art style. Did they do it because they wanted to, or did they do it because they feel like they need to to make the internet happy. If you’re a fan of something and spend all your time bitching about a new art style or story direction or whatever else, seriously fuck off. It’s happening with Halo, Destiny, Star Wars, just about everything. There’s voicing your criticism, but at a certain point it’s better if you just recognize the series went a direction you don’t like and move on. I’d much rather see a product made with passion, even if I don’t love it, versus a product designed just to make people happy.

Disclaimer: Nothing in this post is my usual hating on 343 stuff. Genuinely trying to have a discussion on this one. Also, long post, so sorry ahead of time and can't blame you if you don't wanna read it. :P

I think there may be a third option (probably combined with both of your options, if we're being honest): They didn't just do it because they wanted to and/or because of the internet. We've heard "we're listening to the fans!" plenty of times from them, and plenty of times it's just been talk. BUT THIS TIME, I think they actually legitimately have listened to a lot of feedback (good and bad). I also view this art direction as a decision based on trying to use nostalgia to bring people back. This will be combined along with whatever their plan is to make their story work. I like the new art style, but they still have designs that I hate like that Warthog. There's a compromise going on in what they showed, if you ask me.

To some of your other points, how is it happening to Destiny? You talking about grind and power and all that? Destiny still barely has any story, and Bungie's been getting piled on since D1 for it. And the grind/not-grind battle has been an issue back to D1. Also, Bungie has done and said some pretty shady things in D2, so let's not wash over that. Destiny's complications don't really compare to Halo's. I think Destiny's issues with people are less "direction-based" and more execution of mechanics/features. I feel like all of D1's issues and battles are being relitigated in D2, and that's not good.

Destiny's story, for example, has been a pretty complete failure. Its lore, on the other hand, has been fantastic. And it sucks that they couldn't figure out how to reconcile all of that backstory into something great and meaningful within the world we're in right now while playing.

Luckily, I'm a Bungie fan more than I'm a Destiny fan. And I'm eagerly awaiting that new shiny product that Bungie is going to deliver in the future. Bungie tried a new thing with Destiny. They took a huge risk. It made a lot of money, but it's never going to stand out among the greats decades from now. Hell, if they ever shut off the servers, there goes the world all together as far as revisiting it. Bungie's allowed to have a letdown every now and then after franchise after franchise of greatness. I look forward to what's next, and in the meantime can still enjoy D2's Crucible and current Raid things even if I don't go buying their upcoming expansion(s).

As for Star Wars, Episode VIII's hatred is mirroring pretty heavily to what went down with the prequels. Or at least I think it is. That's not an excuse for it, btw. I still enjoyed the movie, but it has some serious, serious problems. Star Wars hate right now is due to how massively flawed it is. I'm curious to see how IX does at the box office. Either way, I know I'll be seeing it, but I seriously wish I could knock out the world's slowest police chase and all of the casino planet stuff from VIII. There's such a great movie in there, but it's surrounded by a lot of really bad writing decisions.

And as for Halo, on a personal level, my issue has always been competence and honesty, not direction. Sometimes, and this doesn't just apply to Halo, all of the passion and new direction in the world doesn't count for much if it's executed horribly.

All that said, I’m not trying to imply that 343i isn’t passionate or dedicated or excited about this new vision. They probably are! I just hate feeling like the artists and designers are bowing to a bunch of internet fuckwits that throw tantrums because they don’t like something. Even if that’s not what happened, look at the attitude of people about this. Hell, look at the posts on HBO. It’s all “I’m glad 343i realized their shit sucked,” and I just can’t get behind that attitude. And that will always be the narrative now—that 343i fucked up, when what really happened is a bunch of manbabies can’t move on when they don’t like something.

Assuming I'm in reference here (fuckwits and all that), that's fair considering how I've gone about it in the past few years! But prior to the fuckwittery, my HBO posts were actually filled with pretty detailed and specific criticisms as well as solutions that go beyond art and different directions (writing, marketing, truth-telling, having your game be tested before releasing broken products, etc.).

But to the meat of your post, when you say that will always be the narrative NOW? What? Now, as in because of this art change? Again, what I'm about to say is NOT me hating on 343. H4 happened. It lost 80% of its population in its first 3 months. That includes casuals and people who never ever post or bitch online. MCC happened. It was literally unplayable online for months, and now after nearly 4 years might FINALLY get fixed. H5's sales and population have not been a thing. They DID fuck up, and it wasn't now. I'm actually stating facts here. 343 HAD to change something for H6, because what they did was not working with the vast majority of gamers, not just the loud minority of haters on the internet. The vast majority of people DID move on when they didn't like something. You might hate the constant hate toward 343 online, but the actual reality of 343's raw data of population numbers and sales is the true driving force here.

So to tie this back to the top of this post, just think, what if H6 ends up being amazing after bowing to fuckwits and/or population charts and/or nostalgia-dollar-hunts, and what if it leads to a grand revival of Halo going into the future? Even if they have to take a few steps back while moving forward to truly move into a new great era, this could be amazing for them, for Halo, and for you! Right this very second, I'm daring to dream about MCC being fixed and 343 actually proving that they've listened and do care about something. A month or two ago, I quite rudely laughed at the thought of it when Kermit mentioned it. If they can turn their harshest critic around at all, what other critics and fuckwits and whoever else might come back around, too? Halo could have a good future on the way if Infinite works out (and it's going to take more than an art style change to pull it off, like tightening up that writing and testing and honesty).

MCC is the start. If they pull this off, there's the good will they've been badly needing. And it's been enough years since H5 that they can combine MCC good will with Infinite's launch if they don't mislead in their marketing and if they deliver a game that has a soul.

You all are correct. While I stand by my general sentiment, my language and tone wasn’t appropriate or conducive to actual discussion. I still have trouble letting my thoughts cool a minute before I post something. I’ll continue to try to be better.

There are legitimate complaints to be levied against 343i. By all means, continue to remind them that The Master Chief Collection is broken. By all means, make them aware that you don’t like the art or the story direction or gameplay changes. But at a certain point, let them make the art they want to create.

The return to the classic art style is cool. I prefer it too. It is inherently less interesting to me than seeing a different, new take on Halo though, which is what Halo 4 and 5 were. I pretty much always prefer the comic book mentality of changing art styles and different takes on familiar things. Canon matters far less to me than interesting ideas. That is not to say that others that feel differently are wrong. Just that I much prefer giving talented people room to create interesting new things, free from harassment. And I don’t think anyone here has crossed any line in that regard, but the internet in general certainly has, and I hope their return to old art styles isn’t a result of those people.

I’ll reply to this later when I get off work—I do want to have this conversation with you. But I wanted to make it clear that I was not referring to you at all. I find your posts tiresome pretty often, I won’t deny that, but I have found them to mostly be reasonable complaints about a broken game, and not just needless whining about art you don’t like. While I’m not perfect, I try not to deal in veiled insults.

I’ll reply to your other points in a few hours, but I didn’t want that misunderstanding left uncorrected.

Hey it's all good! I didn't take an ounce of what you said personally, and it wasn't necessarily an unfair characterization (if it had been directed at me) when I've largely just piled on with a lack of substance toward 343, so I figured I may as well address it from the perspective of someone who definitely be hatin. At the same time, I did want to make it clear that my hate totally has substance to it even if it rarely shows, and that it's also beyond "OMG I don't like where they went with this" and such.

I look forward to your reply and to wherever the discussion may go!

Why are there remnants of a space elevator on a Halo ring?

In the future, humanity built a space elevator to get to the Halo in a misguided attempt to imitate the length of how long a Mass Effect elevator truly had to be for the rides to take so horribly long while loading the next area. The elevator eventually collapsed during some conflict, as tends to happen when bad things occur near them.

Edit: In case you weren't joking, looks like much smaller stone rings that I assume are randomly about this particular Halo that's being shown off in the demo that are similar to the ones that the Marines were walking under later in the teaser.

As an artist, yes, you are free to create whatever you want. And as long as it’s just you and your art, I don’t really get a say. But, I do get a say once you try and sell it to me. If I don’t like what you’ve done, you being the artist doesn’t mean I have any obligation to buy your work.

Me and a lot of people like me didn’t like the direction of Halo 4 and 5. If they want us to buy Infinte, going back to the style we liked better is a good first step.

Why are there remnants of a space elevator on a Halo ring?

No kidding! That was confusing to me, a guy who pretty much stopped following Halo after Reach... "oh, wow, are we going back to the New Mombasa area? Oh, wait, no, those are on a halo, huh."

You have expressed my sentiments much more eloquently and politely than my initial, emotional response to the suggestion to not be critical of the art direction would have been. So I appreciate that.

Though I would like to add that not "having an obligation to buy [their] work" goes hand-in-hand with not being excluded from being critical of said work. I will never be critical of a person who makes art for the art they produce (within ethical reason) however I reserve the right to be critical of any art - at any level - that is presented for my consumption in an IP that I am otherwise invested in.

I much prefer giving talented people room to create interesting new things, free from harassment
I don’t think anyone here has crossed any line in that regard, but the internet in general certainly has

Sadly, the internet is the lifeblood of the world now and we haven't sorted a way to filter out the poison. I wish no one were assailed by the harassment people often receive as creators - whether the works they produce merit such critique or not. Maybe one day we'll all listen to Carl and really appreciate our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

I appreciate the general sentiment of your post, but for the sake of my argumentative impulses, I will agree in full to giving talented people room to create interesting new things but have to hammer that caveat into the ground that that is not luxury people possess when working within established settings and intertwined with the existing frameworks and materials therein.

Had 343i done Halo 4 in a more traditional style - I'm not gonna have the argument about if that was to make Halo their own or not as it's not pertinent - and followed it on with something like Halo 4: Forerunner and embraced a change in artistic and gameplay styling I would likely have been all aboard that hype train. Instead they stopped a lot of good will in its tracks. They've done a lot to rebuild some of that good will, but they've definitely continued to handle it with questionably steady hands. But I keep giving them another shot each time because I have investment in the world they are playing in.

As an aside, the negativity leveled at 343i isn't new to them in the Halo series. Whether you want to discuss the changes to gameplay between CE and 2 or 2 and 3, or art direction changes between the same (everyone remember the negativity grunts with exosekeletons brought about in the first place, and then when 343i removed them?) or, hell, almost everything people say about Reach. People are critical of things they love. Sometimes that is to much higher degrees when we see things we used to love mishandled and falling to something we don't anymore.

You have expressed my sentiments much more eloquently and politely than my initial, emotional response to the suggestion to not be critical of the art direction would have been. So I appreciate that.

Though I would like to add that not "having an obligation to buy [their] work" goes hand-in-hand with not being excluded from being critical of said work. I will never be critical of a person who makes art for the art they produce (within ethical reason) however I reserve the right to be critical of any art - at any level - that is presented for my consumption in an IP that I am otherwise invested in.

I'm not being clear. I don't mean to suggest that there is no room for being critical of the game or it's art (or any aspect of it). I understand that they're actively trying to sell you something, and you're perfectly within your right to not buy it and make it clear why you're not doing so. You're within your right to do it for as long as you deem prudent.

My problem comes with how folks choose to express those sentiments. Korny's post on HBO is titled "343 acknowledging that their art sucked . . ." That's the sort of sentiment I have a problem with. It's the same discussion we have in circles around here all the time, about stating opinions as fact. I try not to get too caught up in it, but I fail sometimes. This doesn't have to be 343 acknowledging that their art sucked. I doubt they believe that it id. This is 343 acknowledging that folks preferred the old art style. That's not the same thing. My problem is that folks hounded them endlessly, telling them their art sucks, and now those same people have the perception that 343 now agrees that their art sucked.

I don't like caving in to bullies. And logically, I know that's not what happened. I have no real doubt that 343 is excited about this direction. But it still feels bad, especially when I see stuff like "343 acknowledging that their art sucked," is now the narrative surrounding Halo. It bums me out.

I think there may be a third option (probably combined with both of your options, if we're being honest): They didn't just do it because they wanted to and/or because of the internet. We've heard "we're listening to the fans!" plenty of times from them, and plenty of times it's just been talk. BUT THIS TIME, I think they actually legitimately have listened to a lot of feedback (good and bad). I also view this art direction as a decision based on trying to use nostalgia to bring people back. This will be combined along with whatever their plan is to make their story work. I like the new art style, but they still have designs that I hate like that Warthog. There's a compromise going on in what they showed, if you ask me.

But to the meat of your post, when you say that will always be the narrative NOW? What? Now, as in because of this art change? Again, what I'm about to say is NOT me hating on 343. H4 happened. It lost 80% of its population in its first 3 months. That includes casuals and people who never ever post or bitch online. MCC happened. It was literally unplayable online for months, and now after nearly 4 years might FINALLY get fixed. H5's sales and population have not been a thing. They DID fuck up, and it wasn't now. I'm actually stating facts here. 343 HAD to change something for H6, because what they did was not working with the vast majority of gamers, not just the loud minority of haters on the internet. The vast majority of people DID move on when they didn't like something. You might hate the constant hate toward 343 online, but the actual reality of 343's raw data of population numbers and sales is the true driving force here.

My problem isn't that 343i changed their art, or that they're responding to what fans want. I'm glad they did, and I think it's great that they are willing to do so. My problem is maybe just one of semantics. Even that paragraph there is something I take some issue with. The narrative is that they fucked up. I just think that's a shitty way to put it. They didn't fuck up--they just made something some people didn't like (excluding the MCC at this point, because even I'll acknowledge they fucked that up). The narrative is now "343 fucked up, and we made them fix it" rather than "343 made changes we didn't like, and they listened to us to make it better." Is that effectively the same thing? I dunno, maybe.

To some of your other points, how is it happening to Destiny? You talking about grind and power and all that? Destiny still barely has any story, and Bungie's been getting piled on since D1 for it. And the grind/not-grind battle has been an issue back to D1. Also, Bungie has done and said some pretty shady things in D2, so let's not wash over that. Destiny's complications don't really compare to Halo's. I think Destiny's issues with people are less "direction-based" and more execution of mechanics/features. I feel like all of D1's issues and battles are being relitigated in D2, and that's not good.

Destiny's story, for example, has been a pretty complete failure. Its lore, on the other hand, has been fantastic. And it sucks that they couldn't figure out how to reconcile all of that backstory into something great and meaningful within the world we're in right now while playing.

I won't debate any of that. It's the same thing as Halo, where the narrative is "This thing is bad," rather than "I didn't like this thing." Folks just can't accept that they didn't like something, and instead have to say it sucks. I guess that's really the heart of my issue, and maybe that doesn't matter. I guess my problem is the internet outrage machine, and that will probably still be my problem the day I die.

So to tie this back to the top of this post, just think, what if H6 ends up being amazing after bowing to fuckwits and/or population charts and/or nostalgia-dollar-hunts, and what if it leads to a grand revival of Halo going into the future? Even if they have to take a few steps back while moving forward to truly move into a new great era, this could be amazing for them, for Halo, and for you! Right this very second, I'm daring to dream about MCC being fixed and 343 actually proving that they've listened and do care about something. A month or two ago, I quite rudely laughed at the thought of it when Kermit mentioned it. If they can turn their harshest critic around at all, what other critics and fuckwits and whoever else might come back around, too? Halo could have a good future on the way if Infinite works out (and it's going to take more than an art style change to pull it off, like tightening up that writing and testing and honesty).

I hope all that happens. I fully realize that all the folks complaining about Halo will probably have been the ones to bring about the change that makes it truly great again. Just like all the folks complaining about Destiny might be responsible for Forsaken, which looks incredible. I think healthy criticism is great and necessary. I just don't like the way all too many folks express that criticism, and think not liking something makes it automatically bad. I'm always willing to listen to people with actual criticism and points of discussion, but so much of what I see is just "That thing sucks! It used to be better!"

That is a different context than I had been interpreting this discussion in, as I didn't hop over to HBO and haven't checked a bunch of other places I normally get my gaming discussion at. Albeit I don't think providing consistent feedback with a desire to induce change is a negative. Straight up give you on the methodology, though.

where the narrative is "This thing is bad," rather than "I didn't like this thing." Folks just can't accept that they didn't like something, and instead have to say it sucks

Minor comment here, as I didn't have any strong words to other things but this stood out to me. A lot of that comes from people not having the vocabulary to express their issues with the media they consume. Obviously there are people who are vile to be vile, but unless it's explicitly bile-spewing there is a high chance that the consumer just doesn't know how to express why they didn't like something so the short hand it that it just must be bad.

Sadly it is a really hard thing to fix. Then again, I also am not sure if you're accounting for those folks. As I know most of the worst folks are definitely not just having troubles expressing themselves and it is just that they're mean people. A query for the group: How do you guys separate the pure negativity with people who just aren't sure how to provide constructive criticism?

That is a different context than I had been interpreting this discussion in, as I didn't hop over to HBO and haven't checked a bunch of other places I normally get my gaming discussion at.

I spend a lot of time on reddit, I still visit Kotaku and Polygon, too. I guess I can't say that context is the majority, it's certainly common.

Albeit I don't think providing consistent feedback with a desire to induce change is a negative. Straight up give you on the methodology, though.

I don't think it's necessarily negative, either. But who's to say that Halo Infinite is better than whatever the Halo 6 they were going to make would have been? We can never know, and obviously the prevailing thought for most people is that Infinite will be better than Halo 6 without a tonal change would have been. The fact that they made the change isn't inherently good or bad for me. I think a willingness to change and listen to fans is great, and it has me excited. It really is mainly just that context that really bugs me.

Sadly it is a really hard thing to fix. Then again, I also am not sure if you're accounting for those folks. As I know most of the worst folks are definitely not just having troubles expressing themselves and it is just that they're mean people. A query for the group: How do you guys separate the pure negativity with people who just aren't sure how to provide constructive criticism?

It's hard. I think that's the source of a lot of the arguments on this very forum. I'm not very good at expressing myself, as this thread shows. I often feel like the point I was trying to make is misunderstood. I don't blame any else for that--I fully recognize that's a fault of my writing and choice of vocabulary, rather than a fault of the reader. But I also often feel like I have a difficult time in actually articulating whatever point I want to make. I've never been a very effective writer. I try to be conscious of that, but I often let emotion lead me to post too quickly.

where the narrative is "This thing is bad," rather than "I didn't like this thing." Folks just can't accept that they didn't like something, and instead have to say it sucks

I have expressed my dislike for the direction in both story and art from 343I before, and I have done so after trying both Halo 4 and 5. People are conflating my statements with far more acrimony than I have ever stated. I've made my points on what I think 343I has done poorly, and without restoring to base name calling elsewhere.

That being said I have my issues with D1 and D2. Bungie is swinging towards "grind" and randomness to satisfy the players with more time to devote to the game. Is this the right thing to do for Bungie? I don't know. They think it is, I'll let them experiment and see what happens. Worst case is I stop playing just like I did for Halo.

It is always difficult for any company to sift the wheat from the chaff in online feedback, game companies are worse as they tend to get groups of people with more time to whine online then commodities like refrigerators. In my experience in the automotive world you try to determine if a comment is legitimate, then balance out the feedback with your other quality and performance indicators. It is a delicate balance game and it's easy to get it wrong.

You also need a strong idea of the goal of the program, a strong vision of the theme and feel. I don't think there is a strong vision at Bungie, just because we don't see champions pushing their vision much. At the same time it seems to me that online games in general are living and dying by online "thought leaders" who are different from the general playing community.

It is good to design your game for the top 1% of players? Can you do so while keeping players who don't have the time to invest? Is time the best metric? I will admit not knowing the answer to these questions. All I can say is what works best for me personally. I will give this feedback repeatedly in the hope that the game succeeds and is the most fun for me, and hopefully everyone else. It is not meant in hate, but in good faith.

It is a CGI representation of an admission that their art design choices were awful and have been for six years. And apparently Halo 6. Gears 5 in 2019 and already something to show for it. H6 announcement with nothing to show. lol

I am much more concerned about the good things I am hearing about the MCC fixes and was hoping they’d say something about that. I want a fix badly. Then I can come here and post about how 343 did a great thing and proved me wrong and MCC is viable and everyone should play it (and never give them money again for H6 or anything else). Just need a bit more patience. I’m daring to get my hopes up on MCC!

MCC is an ongoing process. I don't think there's as heavy of the "long term plan" when it comes to a timeline. We'll be seeing that progress in real-time somewhat.

The narrative is now "343 fucked up, and we made them fix it" rather than "343 made changes we didn't like, and they listened to us to make it better." Is that effectively the same thing? I dunno, maybe.

It absolutely is not the same thing. Tone matters, and you are correct in making this distinction.

I'm with Avateur, I don't think that's a space elevator, at least not as we know it. The rings seem much too small.

the way Halo felt, looked, and played is really a product of its time. Halo played and looked great, but there are games now that play and look better.

Play and look better at what? I've never played a game that's anywhere near as good at being Halo as Halo is. And while Halo does still exist and can be played, the possibilities in that style of game are hardly exhausted.

When you forge ahead you can create an experience for the ages. When you move back into nostalgia, you create an experience for the moment.

If you think it so easy for new games to strictly better old masterpieces, how is the "experience for the ages" any less ephemeral than that nostalgic experience for the moment?

the way Halo felt, looked, and played is really a product of its time. Halo played and looked great, but there are games now that play and look better.

Play and look better at what? I've never played a game that's anywhere near as good at being Halo as Halo is. And while Halo does still exist and can be played, the possibilities in that style of game are hardly exhausted.

Play Destiny and Titanfall 2. Then go back and play Halo. The weight and physicality of movement is severely diminished. Halo feels like you are floating across the ground, not running on it. But Halo also felt way better than anything before it.

When you forge ahead you can create an experience for the ages. When you move back into nostalgia, you create an experience for the moment.

If you think it so easy for new games to strictly better old masterpieces, how is the "experience for the ages" any less ephemeral than that nostalgic experience for the moment?

It's not easy. It's harder for newer games to be better, but when they are better they can be a lot better.

Play Destiny and Titanfall 2. Then go back and play Halo.

I haven't played TF2, but I've switched between Destiny and Halo plenty.

The weight and physicality of movement is severely diminished. Halo feels like you are floating across the ground, not running on it. But Halo also felt way better than anything before it.

While Halo's movement definitely comes across as slow and floaty when felt back-to-back with a game like Destiny, this isn't really a new thing. Halo has never been very punchily kinetic with its movement. Go back to 2001, and there were plenty of folks who noted that it felt sluggish and floaty after playing, say, Quake.

In terms of the comparison with games like Destiny, I also view this as being more of a loudness war thing than a real evolution in game quality. Halo feels excellent when I'm actually engaged in the game; it's only if I rapidly switch between it and Destiny side-by-side that Destiny feels "better."

And none of this invalidates the desire to build on the past anyway, because Destiny is a totally different game than Halo and doesn't scratch all of the same itches. Even if Destiny's movement is both better and applicable to a Halo-like experience, why not take that and apply it to a Halo-like experience? Why not take advantage of that nostalgia AND build a fresh experience that stands toe-to-toe with the new stuff? These things aren't mutually exclusive.

It's not easy. It's harder for newer games to be better, but when they are better they can be a lot better.

I guess I just mostly disagree. And it's not like it's just for stuff that I played back in the day and have nostalgia for; like, I tried the original Doom for the first time around 5 years ago, and I think it's easily one of the best first-person shooters I've ever played.

There are definitely tools in the developer's toolbox that they have today that they didn't have decades ago. Plenty of games today would never have been able to work the way they do, if they'd been made back then. But the toolbox was already expansive enough to do some things very very well, and not everything has had that much room for direct improvement; and some things haven't improved at all, because nobody has been trying to improve upon them.
There weren't a whole lot of good electric guitar riffs coming out of the 19th century, but some of those symphonies are still quite nice.

Play Destiny and Titanfall 2. Then go back and play Halo. The weight and physicality of movement is severely diminished. Halo feels like you are floating across the ground, not running on it. But Halo also felt way better than anything before it.

Man, this must be some kind of record. I haven't seen you be correct about anything since Super Meat Boy > Limbo. Can't wait to see how long it lasts.

4. Microtransactions?

In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?

Play Destiny and Titanfall 2. Then go back and play Halo. The weight and physicality of movement is severely diminished. Halo feels like you are floating across the ground, not running on it. But Halo also felt way better than anything before it.

Man, this must be some kind of record. I haven't seen you be correct about anything since Super Meat Boy > Limbo. Can't wait to see how long it lasts.

Well, I think I'll end up being right in 6 days… a prediction 3 years in the making.

https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=75334

Also note in that thread I was right about No Man's Sky.

What does three years have to do with anything? I read the original article about Highwire Games and didn’t see any three year type announcement. Was it said somewhere else that Golem supposed to be out in exactly three years or less?

If not, shouldn’t we judge what a game does or doesn’t do only once it is released?

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My problem isn't that 343i changed their art, or that they're responding to what fans want. I'm glad they did, and I think it's great that they are willing to do so. My problem is maybe just one of semantics. Even that paragraph there is something I take some issue with. The narrative is that they fucked up. I just think that's a shitty way to put it. They didn't fuck up--they just made something some people didn't like (excluding the MCC at this point, because even I'll acknowledge they fucked that up). The narrative is now "343 fucked up, and we made them fix it" rather than "343 made changes we didn't like, and they listened to us to make it better." Is that effectively the same thing? I dunno, maybe.

I'm one of the people who think their art was awful and that these changes are a recognition of that fact. I get where you're at as far as how people are describing things. I'm one of them, obviously. While they may be effectively the same thing, I think that their reasons for changing might be a combination of both. They went a direction people didn't like, they refused to genuinely hear and accept feedback, they screwed up along the way, overall numbers and feedback did make them fix it, but I think there's now a genuine want of them to listen to reasonable feedback to make things better.

Also, in the past they've claimed to listen and have totally not done anything of the sort. I'm not the only one who feels this way. Thus, it's hard for people (including myself) to acknowledge that they have listened instead of thinking that they just realized that everything they do is horrible and that they've finally gotten wise.

I hope all that happens. I fully realize that all the folks complaining about Halo will probably have been the ones to bring about the change that makes it truly great again. Just like all the folks complaining about Destiny might be responsible for Forsaken, which looks incredible. I think healthy criticism is great and necessary. I just don't like the way all too many folks express that criticism, and think not liking something makes it automatically bad. I'm always willing to listen to people with actual criticism and points of discussion, but so much of what I see is just "That thing sucks! It used to be better!"

There's the opposite problem. There are the homers who refuse to acknowledge when a thing isn't working or can be improved upon, even when the people complaining aren't just saying "OMG IT SUCKS" or something similar. Great way of stifling discussion or progress. As far as Destiny goes, I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said (positive or negative). Frankly, I don't feel like D2 has anything to offer beyond Raid stuff and Crucible. I don't post as frequently because no one really needs to hear that, and I feel like a lot of people may even agree. Ideally, Bungie will get this next expansion right. I'm gonna wait and see before I drop cash on it.

I've heard multiple industry folks say that the behind closed doors demo is amazing, and that it feels like the game that the modern Deus Ex games should have been.

And you already saw their stance on microtransactions.

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PC, Xbox, and PS4.

PC, Xbox, and PS4.

The Witcher didn't really interest me because of the apparent abundance of busy work quests. If Cyberpunk isn't like that I'll give it a shot.

PC, Xbox, and PS4.

The Witcher didn't really interest me because of the apparent abundance of busy work quests. If Cyberpunk isn't like that I'll give it a shot.

Can you think of examples? The Witcher is almost universally praised because none of the quests feel like busy work. Sure, there are tons of them that aren't relevant to the main story, but all the quests have their own little stories, and more than most (any?) RPGs I've played, none of it feels like bullshit.

I've learned that your definition of busywork is probably far different from mine, though.

Please god, don't let them push it to next gen. I can't wait that long for this

Please god, don't let them push it to next gen. I can't wait that long for this

That definitely seems like a possibility, unfortunately.

I did just see an article on GameInformer, though:

CDPR Confirms Cyberpunk 2077 Targeting Current-Gen Consoles

That's no guarantee, though, obviously.

PC, Xbox, and PS4.

The Witcher didn't really interest me because of the apparent abundance of busy work quests. If Cyberpunk isn't like that I'll give it a shot.

Can you think of examples? The Witcher is almost universally praised because none of the quests feel like busy work. Sure, there are tons of them that aren't relevant to the main story, but all the quests have their own little stories, and more than most (any?) RPGs I've played, none of it feels like bullshit.

I've learned that your definition of busywork is probably far different from mine, though.

Boy, I sure enjoyed fetching paints and supplies for a troll!

... I mean, I actually did, since he was such a dumb and loveable creature, but... still.

Boy, I sure enjoyed fetching paints and supplies for a troll!

... I mean, I actually did, since he was such a dumb and loveable creature, but... still.

Thank you for making my point for me.

Did it feel like busy work, or was it just a funny quest that took all of two minutes?

You're right, I said "none" when I should have said "very few" instead. The Witcher 3 is far from perfect, but calling its quest designs busywork isn't a criticism that it really deserves.