THAB 8.02.18 - DBO Forums

Some neat artwork to start:

https://twitter.com/Bungie/status/1024801987785777153

Followed by a neat statistics graphic:

With exception of Planetary Vendors and their gear, all other vendor gear will be going away in Forsaken. Y1 sets and shaders for IB, Crucible, Factions, Zavala, Ikora, emblems from Cayde's stashes, etc will be gone. So if you're missing something you want, go get it.

Reminder of the Forsaken Combat Stream on August 7th.

A note on elemental orbs:

Orbs are generated only by players who have an entire Solstice Armor set equipped (of any quality).
Elemental orb generation does not require Super ability kills or Masterwork weapon kills. Players can potentially generate orbs on any kill, as long as they are wearing their full Solstice Armor set.
Elemental orbs are generated based off of the player’s equipped subclass, as well as their equipped Energy and Power weapons. If, for example, you wanted to generate only Solar orbs, changing your loadout to all-Solar helps you accomplish this. Kinetic weapons can also generate orbs based off of the player’s loadout.
You can generate and receive elemental orbs from local allies. If you’re travelling in a fireteam, coordinating elements can help you more aggressively progress through elemental orb pursuits.

Some general known issues with the Solstice event are mentioned.

The conclusion of the event will coincide with the patch for Forasken. We are warned to expect some odd behavior during the week as the transition happens:

In general, collections will be unavailable. Specifically, this includes the collections for emblems, as well as Exotic weapons and armor. If players want to have an emblem or Exotic item in their inventory during this week, they will need to prepare their inventory ahead of time. (Edited 8/02 at 5:50 p.m. PDT: While collections will be unavailable, items stored within the Vault may continue to be accessed.)

Nightfall strike scoring will not be available. We’ll have more information about strikes and how they’re changing in Forsaken in the coming weeks.

Movie of the Week and Nightfall scores follow, with one final note at the end, reminding players that this is indeed a month long event, and don't sweat if you're not already rocking a fully Masterworked Solstice set.

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The image is too large to properly embed here. That said it's very interesting that in the last two weeks there are almost Two Hundred Thousand people who have achieved acquiring the Whispers Sniper, Versus the 250 shy of Nine Thousand who have been able to get Redrix in the last two months. That's nuts.

Oh Redrix, you tease.

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The image is too large to properly embed here. That said it's very interesting that in the last two weeks there are almost Two Hundred Thousand people who have achieved acquiring the Whispers Sniper, Versus the 250 shy of Nine Thousand who have been able to get Redrix in the last two months. That's nuts.

I wonder how many have the shotgun.

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I had a nice summary like always with embedded pictures and tweets. It’s gone now. That’s bummer, but I can’t edit it now, and I don’t know that I would even if I could at this point.

Edit: it’s all still there if you quote it in a reply, it’s just not displaying in the original post (at least on mobile). Also the preview looks fine, but it doesn’t display properly when posted. I deleted the tweet embed and it seems to work now. I don’t know.

Update is live.

Some neat artwork to start:

Followed by a neat statistics graphic:

With exception of Planetary Vendors and their gear, all other vendor gear will be going away in Forsaken. Y1 sets and shaders for IB, Crucible, Factions, Zavala, Ikora, emblems from Cayde's stashes, etc will be gone. So if you're missing something you want, go get it.

Reminder of the Forsaken Combat Stream on August 7th.

A note on elemental orbs:

Orbs are generated only by players who have an entire Solstice Armor set equipped (of any quality).
Elemental orb generation does not require Super ability kills or Masterwork weapon kills. Players can potentially generate orbs on any kill, as long as they are wearing their full Solstice Armor set.
Elemental orbs are generated based off of the player’s equipped subclass, as well as their equipped Energy and Power weapons. If, for example, you wanted to generate only Solar orbs, changing your loadout to all-Solar helps you accomplish this. Kinetic weapons can also generate orbs based off of the player’s loadout.
You can generate and receive elemental orbs from local allies. If you’re travelling in a fireteam, coordinating elements can help you more aggressively progress through elemental orb pursuits.

Some general known issues with the Solstice event are mentioned.

The conclusion of the event will coincide with the patch for Forasken. We are warned to expect some odd behavior during the week as the transition happens:

In general, collections will be unavailable. Specifically, this includes the collections for emblems, as well as Exotic weapons and armor. If players want to have an emblem or Exotic item in their inventory during this week, they will need to prepare their inventory ahead of time. (Edited 8/02 at 5:50 p.m. PDT: While collections will be unavailable, items stored within the Vault may continue to be accessed.)

Nightfall strike scoring will not be available. We’ll have more information about strikes and how they’re changing in Forsaken in the coming weeks.

Movie of the Week and Nightfall scores follow, with one final note at the end, reminding players that this is indeed a month long event, and don't sweat if you're not already rocking a fully Masterworked Solstice set.

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I had a nice summary like always with embedded pictures and tweets. It’s gone now. That’s bummer, but I can’t edit it now, and I don’t know that I would even if I could at this point.

Edit: it’s all still there if you quote it in a reply, it’s just not displaying in the original post (at least on mobile). Also the preview looks fine, but it doesn’t display properly when posted. I deleted the tweet embed and it seems to work now. I don’t know.

Looks like it's the palette symbol before the 'by AltairRafuel' in the tweet; it breaks the embed.

I deleted the '[tweet]' bbcode around the twitter link; it shows up as a clickable link now, and the rest of the post shows fine. Sorry - I'll try and dig into the code at some point.

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Thanks, and no worries!

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https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/947a5i/the_time_wasted_dismantling_shaders_by_guardians/

holy chit.

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Once again, Bungie lauds an idiotic oversight as something to be proud of.

Still waiting on that update, sweetheart!

[image]

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Or they’re taking the piss out of themselves. Good lord you’ve got it bad right now. Did Bungie forget your birthday or something?

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Or they’re taking the piss out of themselves.

Yeah, making comments like them saying they are "lauding" it is a big part of the reason they are less fun publicly as a company now.

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Or they’re taking the piss out of themselves.

Yeah, making comments like them saying they are "lauding" it is a big part of the reason they are less fun publicly as a company now.

That's not really true. It's a very tiny part to be honest.

The big part is their leadership and their publisher.

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Still waiting on that update, sweetheart!

The update that's announced with a date? I'm not even sure what the point of this comment is. Are you mad it took them so long? Are you mad it's still almost a month away? Either way, it doesn't make Bungie sound bad, it just makes you sound unreasonable.

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Still waiting on that update, sweetheart!

The update that's announced with a date? I'm not even sure what the point of this comment is. Are you mad it took them so long? Are you mad it's still almost a month away? Either way, it doesn't make Bungie sound bad, it just makes you sound unreasonable.

To be fair, it will have taken them a year after launch to add one of the most basic (and requested) functionalities to the game, which they themselves have admitted would have been easy to do, but, and I quote:

It would be relatively easy to find another button on the controller (L2 + X?) and let players actually delete a full stack, but that isn’t the spirit of what players are asking for, so we’re looking at a stronger solve.

And:

shaders that produce Glimmer could easily evaporate into nothing if you were at or near the cap.

Both absolutely idiotic excuses.
Not in "the spirit of what players are asking for"? It's literally what we've been asking for!

We might miss out on glimmer? I'm willing to bet that anyone would be perfectly happy with flat-out paying glimmer to delete a stack.

Anyway, seven months after those excuses, they choose to make light of their anti-player choices by posting a stat to highlight just how much player time they've willfully wasted. Boy that lovable Bungie, what a knee-slapper they are!

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I'm not calling Bungie loveable here, but when ANY developer says "Hey good news, we're fixing this in the next major update!" I consider it unreasonable to then complain further that it's not fixed RIGHT NOW.

Also, we all KNOW it's an issue right now. How much of my time does it waste? Less than a minute each session. Annoying? Yes. Anti-player? An exaggeration at best.

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Also, we all KNOW it's an issue right now. How much of my time does it waste? Less than a minute each session.

Apparently 25 years worth of minutes.

Annoying? Yes. Anti-player? An exaggeration at best.

That it is slow and tedious is not the anti-player aspect. It's that Bungie was aware of the issue, admitted to knowing of an easy fix, but decided to leave it alone until they could use a different fix in the hype-building stage of their Year 2 expansion.

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Also, we all KNOW it's an issue right now. How much of my time does it waste? Less than a minute each session.

Apparently 25 years worth of minutes.

If you actually do the math, this sounds a lot worse than it actually is:

525600 minutes in a year * 25 years = 13,140,000 minutes / 1 million players (a conservative number) = ~13 minutes per player.

Oh, the HORROR, 13 minutes wasted out of an average of hundreds of hours per player.

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Also, we all KNOW it's an issue right now. How much of my time does it waste? Less than a minute each session.

Apparently 25 years worth of minutes.

If you actually do the math, this sounds a lot worse than it actually is:

"If we pretend that the numbers are impossibly evenly distributed and ignore all facts, it doesn't sound as bad!" -Xenos

525600 minutes in a year * 25 years = 13,140,000 minutes / 1 million players (a conservative number) = ~13 minutes per player.

Conservative? I'd say you're being generous! Even though Solstice has no doubt given the population a huge boost, the population across all three platforms this weekend is at about a million unique players according to DestinyTracker (which is a lot higher than the Guardiangg count, which is just over 527k players). A million players on the weekend of a major event? And you're saying that you'd estimate (conservatively, of course!) that Destiny has had a million players on average throughout season 3... Gotta love your optimism, man.

Oh, the HORROR, 13 minutes wasted out of an average of hundreds of hours per player.

You have hundreds of hours over the past couple of months? Jesus, man, put the controller down! Remember that the stats are ONLY for Season 3, so just shy of three months, with the population peaking at a million players (conservative number).

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You don't understand averages do you? I'll go ahead and stop this argument since you refuse to actually use logic or to be the least bit polite, good day sir.

P.S. Important note to make: sites that use the API for D2 ONLY track players that have used their tracking service so your quoted peak number of players is absolutely missing a lot of players.

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Given the same info graphic, some 4,980,397 Guardians pledged to factions in Season 3. That's very roughly 1,660,132 players in Destiny 2 for season 3... figuring 3 characters per player. The actual numbers will be higher as some people will not have three characters and some people will not have pledged each faction rally and some people (like me) didn't earn any faction engrams for one or two characters.

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Given the same info graphic, some 4,980,397 Guardians pledged to factions in Season 3. That's very roughly 1,660,132 players in Destiny 2 for season 3... figuring 3 characters per player. The actual numbers will be higher as some people will not have three characters and some people will not have pledged each faction rally and some people (like me) didn't earn any faction engrams for one or two characters.

Yeah, that’s a good point which really supports my argument. 1.7 million unique users across all three platforms.
It’s important to remember that unique users, average players, and daily peak are all very, very different things, which means there’s even fewer players than I had initially thought, which throws that conservative 13 minutes per player out the window for Season 3.

I will say, though, that using Faction rally is a bit of a wonky metric, since I have had six guardians every single time, but I only hit rank 50 once on each console, and both times were with a single character (The second Faction rally, I think I only played Destiny enough to grab the final 12 packages that I needed on Xbox, despite pledging all six characters). And as half of DBO can attest at this point, many of us are running multiplat, which causes folks to count as two or three players, but I have no idea if that really is such a common thing.

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So, I’m really not sure what point you are trying to get at. 1.66 million players (as most players are not multiplaform, and even then players with 1-2 characters skews the player count up anyway) puts it at something around 8 minutes across 3 months per player. I don’t see how the logic follows that a distribution with more players somehow makes it worse than you though (cutting around 5 minutes off those averages) so I you are providing a boggle here.

1 million players:13 minutes::1.66 million players:8 minutes

Also, Faction level progress for Season 3 was account based. So you can’t hit 50 on 1 character if you have 3 characters on that platform. And To that effect, I think any attempt to downplay the unique player count by way of “on multiple platforms” is nonsense unless you have a majority of data that suggests a more-than-incidental volume of multi-platform users pledging each Rally.

One way or another, what you are arguing about so fervently is something that is not significant enough to matter.

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So, I’m really not sure what point you are trying to get at. 1.66 million players (as most players are not multiplaform, and even then players with 1-2 characters skews the player count up anyway) puts it at something around 8 minutes across 3 months per player. I don’t see how the logic follows that a distribution with more players somehow makes it worse than you though (cutting around 5 minutes off those averages) so I you are providing a boggle here.

Average playercount, friend. You can't see something that says "1.6 million players signed up", and correlate that with "1.6 million players are playing it on average!".

Look at Lawbreakers, for an extreme, but simple example. Over 70k people bought the game, essentially "signing up for it", but the average playercount for a 24-hour period was at about 663 during its launch month, when it was at its most popular.
It's the same across any game, even something as super popular as Fortnite. The average number of players who actually hop on to play will never match the number of players who have "signed up", so if you look at Destiny's Season 3 as having 1.6 million players "signing up", you're going to have to assume that you're not getting 1.6 million players a day. 1 million is on the optimistic side.

Also, Faction level progress for Season 3 was account based. So you can’t hit 50 on 1 character if you have 3 characters on that platform.

I was trying to say that in regards to how many Guardians are "pledged", due to the account-based numbers, you're contributing three by default (Or six in my case... Unless that deleted Warlock also counts, in which case 7), and regardless of how much you played (only a couple of hours on my end for the second rally), you're suddenly in the tally for playercount.

And To that effect, I think any attempt to downplay the unique player count by way of “on multiple platforms” is nonsense unless you have a majority of data that suggests a more-than-incidental volume of multi-platform users pledging each Rally.

One way or another, what you are arguing about so fervently is something that is not significant enough to matter.

Which is why I specifically pointed out how it might not really be a significant detail, just that it could skew numbers a bit (though admittedly only a few thousand at best). It's just a detail that I saw, let's not latch onto it as some sort of plot twist that could change the math. In fact, the math could be helped if you include the number of players who simply DIDN'T sign up for Faction Rally, but still played the game anyway. Do those numbers make a dent?

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But you’re talking about 7-10 months in, not a launch population spike or initial sales numbers. We are discussing a 1.66 million buy-in to an in-game activity in a game these players are actively playing. Obviously a lack of more explicit numbers means it is all supposition. It is substantially less likely to be a bunch of padded numbers. Your point of players who didn’t pledge but still played is interesting, as a number of high profile individuals within the community both advised they were not going to pledge because they didn’t like how Bungie was handling it and suggested other people who were not happy with it to not pledge either. Likely those numbers will also not show up.

Also, three by default is an assumption that all players have three characters, which they don’t. I play with people who only have one and only play one. However, it is also an assumption that leads to 1.66 and not a higher number of players.

All these numbers are skewed. But they all skew to the issue with shaders as negligible. (Not to mention the Infinity War meme presentation of the shader stats)

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But you’re talking about 7-10 months in, not a launch population spike or initial sales numbers. We are discussing a 1.66 million buy-in to an in-game activity in a game these players are actively playing. Obviously a lack of more explicit numbers means it is all supposition. It is substantially less likely to be a bunch of padded numbers. Your point of players who didn’t pledge but still played is interesting, as a number of high profile individuals within the community both advised they were not going to pledge because they didn’t like how Bungie was handling it and suggested other people who were not happy with it to not pledge either. Likely those numbers will also not show up.

Yeah, but I used API numbers as well, which show a player range for the first weekend of a major event (that requires tons of grind) landing at an estimate of a million players on the high end (but those numbers also depend on a number of factors).

But like you said, without actual data from Bungie, anything with regards to numbers is likely to be inaccurate in one way or another.

Also, three by default is an assumption that all players have three characters, which they don’t. I play with people who only have one and only play one. However, it is also an assumption that leads to 1.66 and not a higher number of players.

Yeah, that too Is an assumption (honestly, that they shared those specific stats about subclass and faction is weird to me, since it doesn't explain anything, but not unwelcome). I guess the only thing that supports that is the almost even number of classes across the board, but who knows there either (I main Warlock on PS4, Titan on Xbox, but did Faction Rally just for the Hunter armor)...

All these numbers are skewed. But they all skew to the issue with shaders as negligible. (Not to mention the Infinity War meme presentation of the shader stats)

Fair to say, but they did think of it as something significant enough to highlight, given that it's one of the most well-known of Destiny 2's longstanding problems (I wanna see how many years have been spent since D2's launch). But they were probably just making the joke because an actual fix is finally on the horizon.

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Oh, the HORROR, 13 minutes wasted out of an average of hundreds of hours per player.

If you had to wait 13 minutes to get a coke at 7/11, would you do it? Or would you just leave and go somewhere else?

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Yeah, but would you wait just over one minute once a week for 11 weeks for 11 cokes from 7/11?

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Yeah, but would you wait just over one minute once a week for 11 weeks for 11 cokes from 7/11?

Trick question. I don't shop at 7/11.

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Also, we all KNOW it's an issue right now. How much of my time does it waste? Less than a minute each session.

Apparently 25 years worth of minutes.

Annoying? Yes. Anti-player? An exaggeration at best.

That it is slow and tedious is not the anti-player aspect. It's that Bungie was aware of the issue, admitted to knowing of an easy fix

STOP.

You are going so far out of your way to twist words and antagonize your fellow forum member that it makes me sick.

1. Bungie only admitted it was an easy issue to solve if they were to solve it by removing the rewards you get when you dismantle shaders. I have played with several people who were very glad they could generate a large amount of extra glimmer or bright dust because they had some assets tied up in shaders. Sure, they didn't like that it took a few minutes of dismantling them one by one. But they were happy to get the emote or ship or shader or ornament they'd been after for a while. They would not have wanted Bungie to take the easy way out.

2. It was explained pretty well that dismantling more than one shader at a time while keeping the rewards was not easy or trivial. Since it appears Bungie wants to keep those rewards intact, any talk of this being an easy fix is irrelevant at best. And in your case? It's straight up, mean spirited trolling. Maybe Bungie is making things more challenging on itself, but any talk of this being an easy fix is a conversational dead end base on what Bungie has signaled they are doing with the shader issue.

Besides, if Bungie implemented the easy fix of dismantling shaders for nothing in return you, or someone like you, would instantly complain that you were being deprived of the rewards Bungie owed you.

3. As others have said to you in the past, it's not that we disagree with you on this or many other issues. For instance, I agree it was quite the embarrassing oversight / misstep / blunder for Bungie to ever let shaders build up in this way with no good way to get rid of them. It's that you constantly, without fail, work so hard at being smug and antagonistic to everyone here. I think you would be someone I'd enjoy talking to and interacting with. But right now, that's not going to happen solely based on how you treat people here. And I know several who feel the exact same way.

I am fully away that you'll either ignore more or mock me for this, but I have to try at least once. Please, Korny, try and be nicer and more understanding. I can't help but feel your posting style is driving people away. :(

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Anyway, seven months after those excuses, they choose to make light of their anti-player choices by posting a stat to highlight just how much player time they've willfully wasted. Boy that lovable Bungie, what a knee-slapper they are!

I'll never forget that dark day the Bungie strike force busted into my room, put a gun to my head and forced me to play destiny (which 0.03% of the time included deleting shaders.). My poor son cried and cried…. I can;t even look at a shader without feeling like a smaller person — helpless and afraid.

I mean if shaders are just the worst thing that brings a pain to your life that transcends the ability to have a knowing wink at it (but also does not bother you enough to stop playing the game) I feel bad for you, but man, its such a small part of this game that even as annoying as it is I can't get worked up about it. I'm sure I have spent way more time waiting for the game to launch than deleting shaders. Hell, I've spent more time waiting for people to join up into the fire team before a raid (A time when I have nothing better to do but delete shaders anyway). Or while you are in hyperspace loading screen.

I dunno. I feel like you really gotta want this one to be offended by it.

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I mean if shaders are just the worst thing that brings a pain to your life that transcends the ability to have a knowing wink at it (but also does not bother you enough to stop playing the game) I feel bad for you, but man, its such a small part of this game that even as annoying as it is I can't get worked up about it. I'm sure I have spent way more time waiting for the game to launch than deleting shaders. Hell, I've spent more time waiting for people to join up into the fire team before a raid (A time when I have nothing better to do but delete shaders anyway). Or while you are in hyperspace loading screen.

To be perfectly honest with ya, I don't ever bother with deleting shaders. I've always had more than enough vault space to simply shove the ugly ones in there and forget about them. The only time I'll bother is when I need Silver Dust, and even that's pretty rare. But what the "I got mine" folks around here never seem to get beyond is the fact that just because something isn't personally an issue for me, it doesn't mean that it is not a real issue.

It's the principle of the matter, where Bungie is full of seemingly lazy devs across the board, from reskinning content to lying to players so they don't burn through what scaps of content there are, shaders are just the one instance where they flat-out said "Oh yeah, we could fix this longstanding issue, but no, we're not going to until later, because the spirit of what players want hork hork. Game development is HAAAAAAARD! But please ignore those other devs doing things a million times better and faster with way fewer people, as that would only highlight how full of crap we are! Instead, look at this high-larious infographic that shows just how much player-time we've wasted with this single aspect of the game! Lol!".

So much of Destiny wastes player time, and much of that was fixed during D1, only to be brought back or broken just for D2.

Let's discuss the 7 hours where countless players sat waiting for a public event just to do a timed quest, or the five hours literally a week later where the same thing happened, and Bungie was like "Working as intended, lol!" I mean, that was more than 13 minutes per player.

Or the stupidly long loading screens that you are forced to sit through just to decrypt an engram, or turn in a milestone.

Or the pointless "Guided Games" that they hyped up, abandoned, and have acknowledged that they have zero intention of working on it (but no LFG or Tower chat for you!)

I mean, the list is pretty endless, and I could go on. Morpheus was just expressing annoyance with the shader issue, but our local Bungie cheerleaders can't stand someone saying anything remotely critical of Bungie without screeching in on them, so I was just saying that he had a point, only to get sarcastic replies from the Triggered Team.

I dunno. I feel like you really gotta want this one to be offended by it.

Eh. The fun aspects of the game are fun enough for me to play it, and while I haven't given my honest thoughts about Solstice (other than simply saying #Kornywasright), I've been having enough fun with that as well. I guess I'm just used to thinking about others besides myself, which isn't a thing for folks around here. I'm just too nice of a guy. :P

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It's the principle of the matter, where Bungie is full of seemingly lazy devs across the board, from reskinning content to lying to players so they don't burn through what scaps of content there are, shaders are just the one instance where they flat-out said "Oh yeah, we could fix this longstanding issue, but no, we're not going to until later, because the spirit of what players want hork hork. Game development is HAAAAAAARD! But please ignore those other devs doing things a million times better and faster with way fewer people, as that would only highlight how full of crap we are! Instead, look at this high-larious infographic that shows just how much player-time we've wasted with this single aspect of the game! Lol!".

This might be the dumbest thing posted on this forum, ever. You have literally no idea how hard Bungie devs work, how difficult the things you claim are easy might be. It's a judgment based on basically no information, and that's stupid, no matter how you cut it.

Let's discuss the 7 hours where countless players sat waiting for a public event just to do a timed quest, or the five hours literally a week later where the same thing happened, and Bungie was like "Working as intended, lol!" I mean, that was more than 13 minutes per player.

Yeah, you know, except the part where they said, "Yeah, that sucks, we're looking at future fixes."

Korny, you've become this forum's equivalent of the streamers you claim to hate.

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It's the principle of the matter, where Bungie is full of seemingly lazy devs across the board, from reskinning content to lying to players so they don't burn through what scaps of content there are, shaders are just the one instance where they flat-out said "Oh yeah, we could fix this longstanding issue, but no, we're not going to until later, because the spirit of what players want hork hork. Game development is HAAAAAAARD! But please ignore those other devs doing things a million times better and faster with way fewer people, as that would only highlight how full of crap we are! Instead, look at this high-larious infographic that shows just how much player-time we've wasted with this single aspect of the game! Lol!".

This might be the dumbest thing posted on this forum, ever. You have literally no idea how hard Bungie devs work, how difficult the things you claim are easy might be. It's a judgment based on basically no information, and that's stupid, no matter how you cut it.

Okay, okay, I admit that it's not a verbatim quote from Bungie.
PERO IT MIGHT AS WELL HAVE BEEN.

Let's discuss the 7 hours where countless players sat waiting for a public event just to do a timed quest, or the five hours literally a week later where the same thing happened, and Bungie was like "Working as intended, lol!" I mean, that was more than 13 minutes per player.

Yeah, you know, except the part where they said, "Yeah, that sucks, we're looking at future fixes."

Fixes for their own system, that they deliberately set up the worst way possible. It's weird that they don't seem to ever look at any of their terrible decisions and ask themselves "is this good?". Someone else said "if the Blight issue is "working as intended", maybe Bungie needs to question their intentions."

And it struck a chord. Why did they build the initial game entirely around Eververse and their Microtransactions? Why have they repeatedly lied to players? Why have they trademarked "we're listening", but don't bother to anticipate future issues? What are their intentions? When they finally acknowledged the Blight issue the first week, we haid it taken care of fifteen minutes later with an endless string of Blights. Why didn't they just make it all blights on Sunday for the people with lives and families? Why did they let it happen again?

Korny, you've become this forum's equivalent of the streamers you claim to hate.

I'm not pandering to an audience, or stirring up crap for the sake of profit. I call things out as I see them, and while I think it's a bit blunt at times, i don't think they're unfair assessments. However, if given decent evidence that I'm wrong about something (and not just speculation and ghetto math), I'll acknowledge that I'm wrong.
But Bungie's not the only developer that I follow, yet only Bungie seems to stumble so consistently over the dumbest no-brainer issues. Even 343 industries has spent the past few years crawling out of the hole that they dug themselves into, to great results.

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I'm not pandering to an audience, or stirring up crap for the sake of profit.

Then what are you stirring up crap for? I'm legitimately asking the question. You have valid points (even though it seems pretty widely acknowledged on this particular forum that lots of those issues aren't actually issues for many folks here, or are, at worst, a slight annoyance), but I can't figure out why you use the tone you do. It feels like you're intentionally using the most annoying, mocking tone possible. You know it grates on people, and yet you continue to do it, even though it's been pointed out multiple times. Why?

We could have an actual discussion about any of the issues you bring up, but the phrasing and tone of your posts make it seem like you don't actually want that, and, if that's the case, why bring it up at all?

I know "Korny is a troll" is a running joke around here, but it feels like it's become much more than that lately. It used to feel good-natured (or at least it did to me), but it feels spiteful now, more often than not. Maybe that's just a problem with my interpretation--I legitimately don't know.

I'm just trying to understand what you're trying to accomplish. It feels an awful lot like you're trying to convince us brainwashed fanboys that, no, actually, Bungie sucks and we should be ashamed for accepting the sub-par product they're giving us. Your tone makes it feel like we're all idiots for enjoying this game the way it is. It feels like you go beyond criticizing Bungie for their product and into criticizing us for enjoying their product. I assume that's actually not your intention, but your phrasing and mocking tone can give one that impression.

Anyway, I've said my piece. No hard feelings from my side--I think we've played together enough that you know I don't take this stuff personally, and I hope you don't either.

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A humorous gif and a shrug is a crap way to explain why you are constantly so abrasive to everyone. It’s a cop out. It’s ignoring responsibility. It is just further antagonizing the people who legitimately want to know what your issue is.

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A humorous gif and a shrug is a crap way to explain why you are constantly so abrasive to everyone. It’s a cop out. It’s ignoring responsibility. It is just further antagonizing the people who legitimately want to know what your issue is.

I'll agree that it's no explanation.

But I think most of us remain here for the same reasons. I don't know why people take Korny's tone to heart about things. Has Korny ever cut someone down for being a fan of Bungie or Destiny? Because if that happened I missed it. Generally when he expresses a point of view that I don't share (which is most of the time); he still makes good arguments for feeling that way. I would say the same thing about you, Raga. I'm pretty confident in saying that about most of us here.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we all generally value differing viewpoints, particularly when considering criticism of something we care about?

I think most of us are pretty familiar with the notion that Bungie are their own harshest critics. And I don't think there's anything wrong with taking a hard look at something that one wants to improve and being fearless in expressing the ways it can be better. The thing I don't see Korny doing that has become a trend among a large swath of the Destiny-playing public is become embittered and tear down the game/dev at every turn for trivialities, or better yet, at one's own (over)investment in the game.

Have we regressed recently into personal attacks or insults? I've admittedly stayed out of a lot of these discussions because frankly I don't care about shaders or how they're changing. They exist in my life and within my playstyle just fine. So forgive me if I'm weighing in only partially educated on this; but as I said at the beginning, I think we all hang out here for the same reasons. There's a history and a habit (and, I hope, a camraderie among us) of high-fidelity discourse that doesn't happen elsewhere.

I guess I want to clarify that I'm not necessarily trying to sail in to defend him, he's a big boy and he doesn't need my help on that. But I guess I'm just surprised at the extent of the reaction. I too sometimes hate the stuff I hear coming out of him about Bungie because I don't want it to be true. But that doesn't mean that it isn't.

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The thing I don't see Korny doing that has become a trend among a large swath of the Destiny-playing public is become embittered and tear down the game/dev at every turn for trivialities, or better yet, at one's own (over)investment in the game.

Uh, not touching whether it's right or wrong, that's exactly what the entire thread started about.

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If there's one thing I stand for, it's that tone matters as much or maybe even more than content. Especially in a non-realtime forum that lacks conversational clues. I think if we did a fair analysis, we'd find that most people agree with Korny's poinst, but very strongly disagree with the way he makes them and with the little digs he often includes.

Personally, I don't want to have to dig through goads and hyperbole and minor insults just to get to the actual, agreeable point. Further, I don't think the reaction you see is based on this one thread, but is the release of months of frustration at Korny's posting style. It's not hard to find where others have asked him to tone it down over the past few months.

I guess I want to clarify that I'm not necessarily trying to sail in to defend him, he's a big boy and he doesn't need my help on that. But I guess I'm just surprised at the extent of the reaction. I too sometimes hate the stuff I hear coming out of him about Bungie because I don't want it to be true. But that doesn't mean that it isn't.

Again, the validity of his points, in this thread especially (where I think they were very valid), are being overshadowed and smothered beneath the way he interacts. And I have no problem with that. I think anyone who goes out of their way to post in a disagreeable way deserves some large amount of backlash.

The good news is, I don't think anyone is permanently mad at Korny. We're just asking him to be less goading. I think if he were to follow through he'd get a lot of agreement with his points of view.

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If there's one thing I stand for, it's that tone matters as much or maybe even more than content. Especially in a non-realtime forum that lacks conversational clues. I think if we did a fair analysis, we'd find that most people agree with Korny's poinst, but very strongly disagree with the way he makes them and with the little digs he often includes.

Play a little bit with Korny. Whenever I read his posts, I picture his little "heh heh" laugh afterwards. Then I know he doesn't mean it.

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If there's one thing I stand for, it's that tone matters as much or maybe even more than content. Especially in a non-realtime forum that lacks conversational clues. I think if we did a fair analysis, we'd find that most people agree with Korny's poinst, but very strongly disagree with the way he makes them and with the little digs he often includes.

Play a little bit with Korny. Whenever I read his posts, I picture his little "heh heh" laugh afterwards. Then I know he doesn't mean it.

I have actually been playing with Korny more often these days and my head says he is the same person, but then I get on the forums and keep doubting that there isn't someone controlling his handle. Honestly, they are like completely different people.

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I have no problem with his differing points of view, I have a problem with him being a jerk while he argues the points. I don't think anyone was arguing in this thread that the shader system isn't annoying, the argument was about how big of the issue it is. Mocking someone, twisting their words, and even trolling saying statistics say one thing instead of what they clearly say is all behavior that is not only infuriating but needlessly antagonistic. And the thing that infuriates me the most is people acting like someone is upset because of the point they are making and not because of the way that they treat people in their responses. If anyone wants to discuss an issue civilly I am all for a serious conversation about almost any topic, it's when it progresses to being uncivil that I'm done with the conversation.

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But Bungie's not the only developer that I follow, yet only Bungie seems to stumble so consistently over the dumbest no-brainer issues. Even 343 industries has spent the past few years crawling out of the hole that they dug themselves into, to great results.

What? While this entire thread has been hilarious, I will be the judge of this last statement. I am the 343 expert, after all. And there’s some H4 BS going on with MCC playlist structure right now. But that’s for another time! You stick to wrecking Bungie on the clear and obvious bullshit. Stay outta my 343 territory. :P

All jokes and fun aside, this link here is a great example of how others view the total time sink that is Destiny. Sure, shaders are a small thing and maybe not that big a deal (at least not to those here, apologists or not), but hey. It all adds up.

https://kotaku.com/destiny-2-s-new-grind-for-400-level-armor-is-no-joke-1828139482

The article, the comments, all of it. I have put zero time into this event. I won’t buy Forsaken on day one. I absolutely am waiting for the reviews. And holy cow, I hope Forsaken ends up being good. If this thing fails, bury Destiny. Next game in a new IP please.

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The article, the comments, all of it. I have put zero time into this event. I won’t buy Forsaken on day one. I absolutely am waiting for the reviews. And holy cow, I hope Forsaken ends up being good. If this thing fails, bury Destiny.

The thing that I find amusing is that you will probably hit 400 in less than 30 minutes while playing Forsaken for the first time, since the cap is 600. So the only reason to do it is if you somehow LIKE the grind. I might play through the remixed campaign missions, but the armor will stay green.

Next game in a new IP please.

You mean the one they are developing with the financial backing of a company that generally makes shitty free to play online games? A company that runs portals devoted to monetization? Sounds good, sign me up!

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The article, the comments, all of it. I have put zero time into this event. I won’t buy Forsaken on day one. I absolutely am waiting for the reviews. And holy cow, I hope Forsaken ends up being good. If this thing fails, bury Destiny.

The thing that I find amusing is that you will probably hit 400 in less than 30 minutes while playing Forsaken for the first time, since the cap is 600. So the only reason to do it is if you somehow LIKE the grind. I might play through the remixed campaign missions, but the armor will stay green.

Bingo. I’ve had a fun enough time doing Crucible and Raids on occasion. Not even at 370 light. I want New Spindle, but I can wait until later. We already rock the Raid mechanics without it, gun would just be gravy at this point. Not wasting time on this weak event (clarification edit: Solstice), and didn’t need the article I linked to to make that choice. Such a focus on this thread on shaders. Shaders could be the straw that broke the camel’s back for people. Easier to dismiss anger than get where it’s coming from, though. D2 wastes a ton of player time by design. Oh and before the accusations come out, nope, I’m not mad in the slightest. You don’t see me grinding away and wasting my time. I got fooled enough in D1 and just long enough after D2 launch to learn from it. Doesn’t mean others out there, be it here at DBO or around the internet or not posting at all anywhere (or playing anymore as a result of all of this) aren’t upset or concerned.

Next game in a new IP please.

You mean the one they are developing with the financial backing of a company that generally makes shitty free to play online games? A company that runs portals devoted to monetization? Sounds good, sign me up!

Man, I didn’t know that. I was hoping for a more back to basics thing from Bungie. Trying to make games that have a soul. Crucible is relatively soulless, but I have fun with it. I enjoy the Leviathan, and I really really like Eater of Worlds. But Destiny 2 may as well be more of D1 at this point. In so many bad ways. Especially with respect to our time. I hope that a company and its backing for Bungie won’t lead to the stuff you’re implying.

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Man, I didn’t know that. I was hoping for a more back to basics thing from Bungie. Trying to make games that have a soul. Crucible is relatively soulless, but I have fun with it. I enjoy the Leviathan, and I really really like Eater of Worlds. But Destiny 2 may as well be more of D1 at this point. In so many bad ways. Especially with respect to our time. I hope that a company and its backing for Bungie won’t lead to the stuff you’re implying.

Look up NetEase and judge for yourself.

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Yeah, making comments like them saying they are "lauding" it is a big part of the reason they are less fun publicly as a company now.

It would probably help if they stopped making fun of us.

The update that's announced with a date? I'm not even sure what the point of this comment is. Are you mad it took them so long? Are you mad it's still almost a month away? Either way, it doesn't make Bungie sound bad, it just makes you sound unreasonable.

Honestly, there are a couple things I'm mad about, some of which was brought up by others.

A) The first thing I'm mad about is that more efficient shader management should've been implemented. On. Day. One. It's not like the new shader system was thought up right before gold shipping and they had no time to polish it. Bungie announced during their press runs, "Hey, we're gonna revolutionize shaders and customization for this sequel, possibilities will be endless, etc." so it was indeed planned. If it were last minute, I'd be completely understanding of something like this, because anger or not this system is pretty darn huge. It definitely wasn't like the old days where you got(or bought) a shader that made everything one or two colors and decided "Oh, this looks ugly" or "This could look good on character Y" or "Holy crap, I'm going to ask this shader to marry me", and pick something for their guardians! There really should've been somebody in this crowd of designers and programmers that could say "Hey, this new system will stack up on individual shaders pretty quick! What about the people who don't like this particular set of colors, or those who don't use shaders often? We need an option for them!"

B) The second source of my anger is, yes:the fact that it took—or I guess since it's not until next month, is taking—so long. I didn't even know about Bungie ignoring all the requests until Korny linked it in his post. That revelation is annoying, but not angering or infuriating...because stuff like that happens all the time, across thousands of games and companies--a sin that most developers are guilty of. What's angering is that easy fix or not, it wasn't addressed for an entire year and a half, on top of which...when they did create a solution, they decided to hold it until the next Expansion. If—Whenever there was some exploit that gave players a chance in hell of finishing a Nightfall or some f'ed up horrible advantage in Crucible, Bungie would learn about it same day or next, and would have it removed in varying times, but usually by next Tuesday. Deleting shaders one by one is by no means a reverse exploit(maybe of someone's time), but main point is: it was a problem--a problem that was brought to public light, and a problem the studio knew about. A problem not just moved to the back burner, it was taken off the stove and filled with water to soak.

C) The third and final reason that I'm angry is the actual reason I got angry and posted (albeit hastily) in the first place: the fact that they decide to add that statistic up and throw it in our faces.

"We gave you all these consumables with no method of management! We heard your pleas, specifically told you we'll do it when we feel like it, and decided to wait 'til the end of the summer to implement it with another marketing point; neither of which really have anything to do with each other. You guys deleted all these shaders one-by-one!"

This subtopic would not have even existed if they had not posted that particular statistic.

Taking the piss out of themselves? More like they're pissing on us.

1. Bungie only admitted it was an easy issue to solve if they were to solve it by removing the rewards you get when you dismantle shaders. I have played with several people who were very glad they could generate a large amount of extra glimmer or bright dust because they had some assets tied up in shaders. Sure, they didn't like that it took a few minutes of dismantling them one by one. But they were happy to get the emote or ship or shader or ornament they'd been after for a while. They would not have wanted Bungie to take the easy way out.

I do agree with you that people wouldn't want to lose their Bright Dust—especially since they had to empty their pockets to dust in order to get it, but that's another can o' worms—and coming up with a way to keep those rewards is indeed honorable for Bungie. Glimmer, however, is immaterial. There are plenty of ways to rake in tons of glitter through virtually every activity. Using Bright Dust as an argument only works for the stuff that applies to Eververse, and the events that followed it. That still leaves a large amount of shaders that can be deleted without consequence.

We might miss out on glimmer? I'm willing to bet that anyone would be perfectly happy with flat-out paying glimmer to delete a stack.

I would.

I mean if shaders are just the worst thing that brings a pain to your life that transcends the ability to have a knowing wink at it (but also does not bother you enough to stop playing the game) I feel bad for you, but man, its such a small part of this game that even as annoying as it is I can't get worked up about it. I'm sure I have spent way more time waiting for the game to launch than deleting shaders. Hell, I've spent more time waiting for people to join up into the fire team before a raid (A time when I have nothing better to do but delete shaders anyway). Or while you are in hyperspace loading screen.

I also agree with this—it is a small issue that doesn't deserve triggering over. For the past year, the two or three shaders I haven't used, I've just let pile up in my vault. But it's not so much the shaders as it is the omitting, ignoring and insulting that makes it a larger issue. It just doesn't make sense for them to do something like that.

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I just still don't grasp the nature of the problem.

There's this thing called multiplication. Computers can do it really quickly. So if you dismantle 15 shaders at once, take the reward for one, multiply it by 15, and then give that to the players. If you hit the glimmer / bright dust cap? That's no different than if you deleted the entire stack one by one now is it?

I honestly do not get it.

By the way the White Nail perk is broken yet again. If you use the Lunafaction Boots and are in a rift, The Worm won't generate ammo from nothing. OOPS! Working as intended.

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I honestly do not get it.

We know, and we've been trying to tell you that for quite a while now. (:

I won't speak for anyone else, but I certainly don't understand the nature of the problem. Here's the thing though, I don't make video games for a living. If Bungie says it's hard, I believe them. Why don't you?

By the way the White Nail perk is broken yet again. If you use the Lunafaction Boots and are in a rift, The Worm won't generate ammo from nothing. OOPS! Working as intended.

You honestly can't understand how it's even remotely possible that a rift which gives blanket auto-reload from reserves might accidentally mess up and override White Nail? Or maybe it is working as intended, as a form of balancing. You want White Nail? Fine, but you're not also getting the Empowering Rift buff.

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I honestly do not get it.

We know, and we've been trying to tell you that for quite a while now. (:

I won't speak for anyone else, but I certainly don't understand the nature of the problem. Here's the thing though, I don't make video games for a living. If Bungie says it's hard, I believe them. Why don't you?

This, so much this.

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Taking the piss out of themselves? More like they're pissing on us.

This is the viewpoint I don't get though. You ended this post saying it's not a big deal, it's a very minor thing, but you still get mad about them joking about it... it's either one or the other. Either it's worth being upset about AKA it IS a big deal, or it's not which makes the joke not a big deal either. They are DEFINITELY not pissing on us, at worst one could say it is a badly timed, unfunny joke, at best it's making fun of their own limitations, something everyone should learn how to do.

I don't want to argue about this, I'm not trying to offend you or anyone else about this, I just don't see how them making a joke about something that almost all of us admit is not a big deal is even remotely offensive. Personally the second I saw that stat I laughed along with several people around me I showed it to that were Destiny players. Bungie obviously all thought it was funny and were not intending to hurt anyones feelings. I totally agree with the mindset that people and companies should be mindful of other people's feelings, but sometimes I also just take a step back and say "I'm offended, but did they mean offense? Is it even a big deal?" It actually made me a lot happier as a person when I learned to do that.

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What's angering is that easy fix or not, it wasn't addressed for an entire year and a half,

Okay, what?

Destiny 2 launched on September 6, 2017. That Weekly Update that Korny linked to, addressing the issue, was on January 25, 2018. I don't know what counting system you're using, but in my universe, 20 weeks is considerably less than "an entire year and a half".

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B) The second source of my anger is, yes:the fact that it took—or I guess since it's not until next month, is taking—so long.

I totally get this mindset, I myself have been annoyed with the shader deletion in the game many times, but as someone who helps software engineers troubleshoot new features, including identifying, recreating, and troubleshooting issues with said features, when I read their post about shader deletion I can say I think I understand what happened:

They thought over solutions, many different ones including the option of holding a button combination to delete a stack. It would be relatively easy to fix, but it wouldn't fix the underlying issue which is the shader system itself. Instead of going for a temporary solution that would still require 100s of man-hours to program and test (including making sure you keep your glimmer and bright dust) they realized the better thing to do would be to fix the entire system. It definitely is frustrating as a player to have to wait for it, but it does actually make sense.

And BEFORE anyone tries to argue that it wouldn't take 100s of man-hours to program, don't. Even with an incredibly non-critical enhancement for the product I support it usually takes 100+ hours of JUST MY TIME to help test.

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They thought over solutions, many different ones including the option of holding a button combination to delete a stack. It would be relatively easy to fix, but it wouldn't fix the underlying issue which is the shader system itself. Instead of going for a temporary solution that would still require 100s of man-hours to program and test (including making sure you keep your glimmer and bright dust) they realized the better thing to do would be to fix the entire system. It definitely is frustrating as a player to have to wait for it, but it does actually make sense.

Why are those choices mutually exclusive? Spend the 100 hours for the band-aid, then redesign the underlying system. At least players have relief in the meantime.

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Why are those choices mutually exclusive? Spend the 100 hours for the band-aid, then redesign the underlying system. At least players have relief in the meantime.

They're not mutually exclusive, but anyone that is familiar with programming will know there is one resource that is the most valuable over all others: man-hours. If they provide a band-aid that is hundreds of man-hours (also notice the 's' on there) that is NOT going into a different new feature, or even fixing the overall system for something that will be temporary. I don't know any developers that would decide to provide a band-aid like that unless the problem was completely ruining the product.

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Why are those choices mutually exclusive? Spend the 100 hours for the band-aid, then redesign the underlying system. At least players have relief in the meantime.

They're not mutually exclusive, but anyone that is familiar with programming will know there is one resource that is the most valuable over all others: man-hours.

How many employees does Bungie have again? It's always baffled me that for the size of Bungie's team, we've gotten two "disasters" in a row, which is crazy considering that D2 was the "clean slate" where they'd be iterating on and improving upon everything that they learned from D1. I really want to know where those man-hours are going, because they burn through thousands of them a day.

If they provide a band-aid that is hundreds of man-hours (also notice the 's' on there) that is NOT going into a different new feature,

Ah yes, that DOES explain the abundance of new content and features from Bungie's end since D2's launch... Again, they have thousands of man-hours a day, let's say that every department has at least a hundred man hours a day. Why can't any one of those departments provide a band-aid?

or even fixing the overall system for something that will be temporary.

There's a lovely Canadian who once said "YOU HAVE TO DO BOTH". And wouldn't ya know it, history has proven her very right. Bungie has spoken on this, and they themselves have said that a "bandaid" (I mean, what he said was clearly a fix) would be relatively easy. In a service based-game, to say that you don't want to provide a basic service is... crazy to me.

I don't know any developers that would decide to provide a band-aid like that unless the problem was completely ruining the product.

Do I even need to say it?

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Developers make this kind of trade-off all the time. Why make a band-aid fix (which is a non-trivial amount of effort) to fix something that isn't actually broken but is just an annoyance to some percentage of users? It all depends on the severity of the problem as well as the complications involved in fixing the problem. Any band-aid fix is likely to have to be reverted from the codebase to fix the real issue. Depending on the state of the codebase sometimes this makes sense as it's easy to have both changes in parallel, but in other cases it can actually make the "real" fix harder to do. Without fully understanding the Destiny codebase it's impossible to say what kind of challenges Bungie is facing here and I guarantee you they aren't lying about it being challenging to fix.

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Why are those choices mutually exclusive? Spend the 100 hours for the band-aid, then redesign the underlying system. At least players have relief in the meantime.

They're not mutually exclusive, but anyone that is familiar with programming will know there is one resource that is the most valuable over all others: man-hours. If they provide a band-aid that is hundreds of man-hours (also notice the 's' on there) that is NOT going into a different new feature, or even fixing the overall system for something that will be temporary. I don't know any developers that would decide to provide a band-aid like that unless the problem was completely ruining the product.

Things change when your game is now apparently a Software-as-Service. Who wants to use a service when problems aren't promptly addressed?

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Why are those choices mutually exclusive? Spend the 100 hours for the band-aid, then redesign the underlying system. At least players have relief in the meantime.

They're not mutually exclusive, but anyone that is familiar with programming will know there is one resource that is the most valuable over all others: man-hours. If they provide a band-aid that is hundreds of man-hours (also notice the 's' on there) that is NOT going into a different new feature, or even fixing the overall system for something that will be temporary. I don't know any developers that would decide to provide a band-aid like that unless the problem was completely ruining the product.

Things change when your game is now apparently a Software-as-Service. Who wants to use a service when problems aren't promptly addressed?

Because this "problem" is relative to the user. The "problem" is actually functionally as intended. It's just that it's not up to par to what people want. There have been far greater problems in Destiny that Bungie has been all over. For instance the Bureaucratic Walk emote problem or the infinite tether problem. Those were problems because they broke the game. This is just something that people are annoyed with, don't like, or hate.

As someone who works in a SAAS company, we prioritize requests (generally) by
1. Fixes that have broken the software
2. Features that get us more customers
3. Features that keep our customers
4. Features

The shader problem is 3 or 4. There is far more time spent on 1 and 2 for Bungie right now.

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As someone who works in a SAAS company, we prioritize requests (generally) by
1. Fixes that have broken the software
2. Features that get us more customers
3. Features that keep our customers
4. Features

The shader problem is 3 or 4. There is far more time spent on 1 and 2 for Bungie right now.

This isn't specifically about the shaders. Bungie is slow to adapt and implement any changes (unless it is closing an exploit that gets you gear!). They are slow to move on just about everything.

After what was detailed in HandMade Con regarding the mistakes they made in Destiny's design resulting in changes and additions being very painful, you would think that they would have decided not to repeat that mistake, and design Des2ny to be robust and flexible when it comes to fast or frequent changes. Other companies with online games are able to respond much more quickly, so it simply looks bad when issues go unaddressed. No one issue is super major, but it's death by 1000 cuts.

And when Bureaucratic Walk happened I distinctly remember they didn't fix the actual issue right away. They simply canceled Trails!

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As someone who works in a SAAS company, we prioritize requests (generally) by
1. Fixes that have broken the software
2. Features that get us more customers
3. Features that keep our customers
4. Features

The shader problem is 3 or 4. There is far more time spent on 1 and 2 for Bungie right now.

This isn't specifically about the shaders. Bungie is slow to adapt and implement any changes (unless it is closing an exploit that gets you gear!). They are slow to move on just about everything.

That feels like a generalization to me. They are held back by server side changes, which they can do instantly, which is what they did for Bureaucratic walk by removing it from being purchased. And local changes, which have to go through a large QA/testing team, not only from Bungie but from XBox as well.

After what was detailed in HandMade Con regarding the mistakes they made in Destiny's design resulting in changes and additions being very painful, you would think that they would have decided not to repeat that mistake, and design Des2ny to be robust and flexible when it comes to fast or frequent changes. Other companies with online games are able to respond much more quickly, so it simply looks bad when issues go unaddressed. No one issue is super major, but it's death by 1000 cuts.

I don't know what to say about what you consider "slow" as well as what other companies consider "quickly". Every fix is dependent on so many factors. Engine, employees, platform, just to name a few. I'm not saying that Bungie hasn't made mistakes, but I feel like Bungie has done a good job at reacting to actual game breaking problems.

And when Bureaucratic Walk happened I distinctly remember they didn't fix the actual issue right away. They simply canceled Trails!

They fixed it within a couple weeks as I recall. Canceled trials because they didn't want it to affect everyone as well as took it off the store. That is as best as any development team can do.

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...

*Backs Away Slowly*

ಥ_ಥ

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Looking at the stats from pledges to factions there are about 500,000 more hunters pledging than titans/warlocks (not combined). That could just be that more hunters are pledging or it could be that more people play hunters?

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Looking at the stats from pledges to factions there are about 500,000 more hunters pledging than titans/warlocks (not combined). That could just be that more hunters are pledging or it could be that more people play hunters?

I'm looking at the emblem you can get from Shaxx that displays your total competitive kills, and it breaks it down by class. My Hunters defeated stat is very close to the titans and warlocks combined.

I think people play more hunters.

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3659 views

Looking at the stats from pledges to factions there are about 500,000 more hunters pledging than titans/warlocks (not combined). That could just be that more hunters are pledging or it could be that more people play hunters?

I'm looking at the emblem you can get from Shaxx that displays your total competitive kills, and it breaks it down by class. My Hunters defeated stat is very close to the titans and warlocks combined.

I think people play more hunters.

I agree, I think in general more people play hunters.

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3592 views

A lot of Crucible-only (relative term) players also main hunters because of their neutral game and many exotics supporting PvP playstyles.

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3606 views

I'm looking at the emblem you can get from Shaxx that displays your total competitive kills, and it breaks it down by class. My Hunters defeated stat is very close to the titans and warlocks combined.

I think people play more hunters.

Nah, people who play Hunters are just easy to kill. ;)

So when's that 1v1 again?

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3628 views

So when's that 1v1 again?

Make an event! We'll set something up.

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I had two games yesterday where I was the lone Warlock, playing with 7 Titans. Not a single Hunter in the bunch, for two straight games.

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The other night, I commented to Claude that Doomfang Pauldrons were not playtested for Mayhem at all. The shield spam is real!

Imagine if I actually knew what I was doing in that clip...

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THAB 8.02.18 (Destiny)

Stats are Fun

Stats are Fun

I don’t know what happened to my post.

Weird. It's like that on on PC too.

I don’t know what happened to my post.

I don’t know what happened to my post.

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

+1

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

lol, 25 years wasted dismantling shaders in season 3

C'mon Korny, that's horsecrap, and you know it.

C'mon Korny, that's horsecrap, and you know it.

C'mon Korny, that's horsecrap, and you know it.

^^ This is probably the best post I've read in this thread.

+1. They're great questions!

Not good enough.

Not good enough.

Not good enough.

Not good enough.

Not good enough.

Not good enough.

Not good enough.

C'mon Korny, that's horsecrap, and you know it.

C'mon Korny, that's horsecrap, and you know it.

C'mon Korny, that's horsecrap, and you know it.

C'mon Korny, that's horsecrap, and you know it.

All replies

All replies

You're exhausting.

You're exhausting.

All replies

All replies

I’m Counting The Beta, Too.

'k - but July-Jan is STILL not 1.5 years.

My theory on what happened

This

My theory on what happened

My theory on what happened

My theory on what happened

My theory on what happened

My theory on what happened

My theory on what happened

My theory on what happened

My theory on what happened

Golly Gee! I wonder what everyone is talking about...

More hunters than other classes

More hunters than other classes

Maybe you just really hate hunters

Maybe you just really hate hunters

More hunters than other classes

More hunters than other classes

Mayhem Matches—All Hunters!

lol

How many of those Titans were Solar???

Most.

How many of those Titans were Solar???