Forsaken Spoiler Thread

Figured it might not be a bad idea to have a thread where we can talk more openly about Forsaken, while also keeping spoilers out of other threads for the time being :)

*** FORSAKEN SPOILERS BELOW ***

I had the day off yesterday, and was lucky enough to sink a good chunk of time into the game (staying up until 4am may have had something to do with that lol). I finished the campaign, did a bunch of patrol and post-campaign activities, ran the new strikes, did a bunch of the Wanted Bounties. I finished the night at max rank (50) and power level 500. I'm having loads of fun so far.

Here are some first impressions/random thoughts:

* I LOVE the new patrol space. Tangled Shore is probably my favorite destination in D2 so far. Fantastic visuals and atmosphere, great variety to the various regions. I love the crazy sci-fi look, feel, and concept. I also love that it isn't just a big circuit. Feels far more natural than most of the other patrol spaces in D2, IMO.

* The new bad guys are fun to fight. Cool mix of abilities, behaviors, shapes and sizes. Speaking more broadly D2's combat feels like it is in a particularly good place right now. All the tweaks they've made to the sandbox, weapon slots, the buff to in-air accuracy... it's all feeling great. I'm running a Kinetic Bow, the EP Shotgun, and Whisper as my primary loadout right now, and I feel just about as dangerous and effective as I ever did in D1. In some ways, perhaps even more effective.

* I enjoyed the Baron adventures. Each one was a fun and memorable setpiece. I'd really like to run through tougher versions of those missions again, co-op. I'd go as far as to say that it would be nice to see every one of those missions added to the Strike playlist. They seem particularly well made for multiple guardians to tackle together.

* I'm of two minds on the story/plot/lore side of things. In many ways, I agree with Raga's post from last week; there is stuff going on from a lore point of view that is fantastic, and its actually starting to trickle its way into the game and primary narrative. Not as much as I'd like, but I do think it is a step in the right direction. I also think Bungie has done a better job this time around when it comes to telling a story that tangles various different characters, groups, and factions together into a single plot.
However, when it comes to the real meat, the moment-to-moment writing and dialog, I think things fall apart. A lot of the dialog is terrible, IMO. Cayde's lines, particularly so. I haven't been a fan of the knee-slapping direction that they've taken with Cayde in D2 (I thought Taken King hit a good balance in terms of his personality), and they ramped up the cheese to a whole new level this time. I was relieved when Uldren finally killed him, because I was ready to do it myself by the end of that first mission. Personal taste and all, but I think its worth stressing because the whole narrative thrust of this campaign is supposed to be the fact that we're driven by rage to avenge our friend, and none of that works if I, the player, DESPISE the character than I'm supposed to be avenging. No big deal. I'm sure there are people out there who like Cayde. I just wish these pieces had clicked together for me, because I might have been far more invested in the narrative if I'd had any positive feelings about LameJokeyMcHorn Face.

* Another vague and undeveloped thought that's bouncing around in my head: It looks to me like the game is in a fantastic place in terms of the things to do on a regular basis moving forward. There seem to be loads and loads of activities that players can do on a daily or weekly basis that are fun, varied, and also help the player progress and earn gear. I'm super happy about that. But, at the moment, I think the general UX (the way in which all these activities are tracked and communicated to the player) is a mess. The bounty system feels overly chaotic and clumsy to me, especially with some quests thrown in there on the same screen, while a few pursuits are still tracked on the old Milestone blade, and other pursuits can only be tracked by highlighting their little emblems in the map screen... It's tough to know where to look for what, and even tougher to prioritize. There doesn't seem to be a way for me to look at bounties that are going to expire in 1 day, vs 1 week, vs ongoing quests that don't expire. They're just all jumbled together on 1 big sheet of little square tabs, except for the pursuits that aren't on that screen at all for whatever reason.

It goes beyond a mildly frustrating interface, though. I personally found it actually interfered with the STORY. For example, right after making contact with the Spider, he asks you to do some busy work for him before he agrees to help you out. In most games, this would be where we'd get one or two traditional "story" missions that involve us doing some dirty work for him. But instead, I end up lost in my menu for about 10 minutes trying to figure out what exactly I need to do in order to progress the story further, and the answer ends up being some simple patrol missions. Its this weird situation where the hyper-gamey elements of Destiny kind of bang into the attempt to tell a narrative arch. Bungie is trying to tell a story within a game system and structure that isn't really build or designed or optimized to tell stories. It's a fascinating little hiccup in the campaign for me, because it is such a perfect illustration of how these 2 important goals (tell a great story through a compelling campaign experience, and provide an expansive shared-world playground where people can play together indefinitely) are at strong odds with each other.

* Finally, it's obviously too early to say for sure, but my first impression is that the grind is too imposing at the moment. I was able to get up to power level 500 quite quickly (thanks in no small part to the 2000+ vanguard tokens I'd been saving), so that's nice. The game does seem to be the most generous it has ever been when it comes to getting drops that help increase your light level, and that's awesome. But when it comes to taking those drops and infusing them into the gear that you actually want to use, it is extremely expensive, and also a bit obtuse in a few ways. When i noticed that we can buy Masterwork Cores from the Spider, I was pumped. "They only cost a few Legendary shards, and I've got over 1500 of those!" i thought to myself. What I didn't notice until it was too late was that every time you buy Masterwork Cores, they get increasingly more expensive (apparently the price resets daily). So the first couple cores I bought were cheap, but after buying a few more, I was paying over 300 Legendary shards per core. So my 1500+ legendary shards was down to 600 in about 30 seconds, and all I had to show for it was a small handful of masterwork cores, which was just enough for me to infuse 2 or 3 weapons up to my current level.

We'll see how the grind plays out in the long run, but my first impression is that its gonna be a long time before I'm using some of the gear I really want to use in the activities that I'd like to use them in. And again, I'm having so much fun with all the activities available that the idea of a looooong grind, while not ideal, doesn't seem that bad to me.

How about everyone else?

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I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Tangled Shore is easily the best patrol space since the Dreadnaught. It feels alive, there's a reason the enemies are there, not just "fighting space monsters". That is important for world building and overall story. It feels less like a fetch quest (lets be real, we are still just protecting the ghost while he hacks or collecting something) when there are reasons you are where you are.

BOW IS AMAZING. I was skeptical, then I got my first Kill and its almost all I use. I am eager to try it in the crucible with a handcannon combo, might need to get a trials team together again (hint hint). I also got an Autorifle - Misfit. High ROF, looks and sounds badass. I like its uniqueness. No other new weapons of note at this time.

Story was great, Maybe I am the only one but I enjoy the Cayde humor, but I see how you do not.

I went from light level 360 to 406 in a few hours at a slower pace. I hate the new infusion system, way too costly. Granted, I do not have nearly as many mats/masterwork cores as the people that have been playing consistently. I started Forsaken with 98 Master work cores, and no Planetary mats as I always turned them in for Reputation; choosing which weapon to infuse has alot of weight for me.

New Super is super fun. I went with the Gunslinger Throwing Knife super, loads of fun. Even the new melee is neat and different, not just the same melee lunge with different effect. I saw that Hammerbro Titans get a hammer they can throw and pick up over and over though. That should have been a thing for Hunters. Or at least give us 2 knives standard. Titans already get 1 HKO shoulder charge.

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New Super is super fun. I went with the Gunslinger Throwing Knife super, loads of fun. Even the new melee is neat and different, not just the same melee lunge with different effect. I saw that Hammerbro Titans get a hammer they can throw and pick up over and over though. That should have been a thing for Hunters. Or at least give us 2 knives standard. Titans already get 1 HKO shoulder charge.

All I have to say is that Hunters have had throwable melees for so long that you have to give use other classes our hay day! Also, the super is kinda built around that throwing hammer. 3 of the 4 abilities (the other being the super) has to do with the hammer!

1. Hunters can have infinite grenades as long as they do it right :P
2. As far as I can tell, hammers don't get crits

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New Super is super fun. I went with the Gunslinger Throwing Knife super, loads of fun. Even the new melee is neat and different, not just the same melee lunge with different effect. I saw that Hammerbro Titans get a hammer they can throw and pick up over and over though. That should have been a thing for Hunters. Or at least give us 2 knives standard. Titans already get 1 HKO shoulder charge.

All I have to say is that Hunters have had throwable melees for so long that you have to give use other classes our hay day! Also, the super is kinda built around that throwing hammer. 3 of the 4 abilities (the other being the super) has to do with the hammer!

1. Hunters can have infinite grenades as long as they do it right :P
2. As far as I can tell, hammers don't get crits

Oh I definitely am JEALOUS. Looks like a load of fun, I will get it eventually. Looks like the Other Super subclasses are on a weekly lockout, so I will probably try and get all my characters through them these first few weeks and have it DONE.

Also, doesnt look like you need crits when its hitting like that on Body shots!

The new Knife mechanic keeps it running though. The knives thrown inflict burning damage. If you kill a burning enemy it replenishes your melee. Pretty nifty. I bet its great with Polaris Lance.

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Also, doesnt look like you need crits when its hitting like that on Body shots!

The new Knife mechanic keeps it running though. The knives thrown inflict burning damage. If you kill a burning enemy it replenishes your melee. Pretty nifty. I bet its great with Polaris Lance.

So, the subclasses last node gives you stacking damage up to x3 for every solar ability kill. As far as I can tell it basically doubles the damage of solar abilities at x3. Which means the hammers are doing about 15k to white guys.

I like it a lot, because it almost feels like the run 'n punch that they tried to do, and didn't catch on imo, but it gives you more freedom of range. At a certain range it's really hard to figure how the hammer is going to bounce. At mid to short range it basically bounces right back into your hands.

I've had a couple times where it bounced off a guy and into another guy to get a double kill :D

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how racist.

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I've just started campaign but I've got a question about Exo, ala Cayde.

Why was he coughing so much and breathing heavily? He's a robot. This actually really bumped me.

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I've just started campaign but I've got a question about Exo, ala Cayde.

Why was he coughing so much and breathing heavily? He's a robot. This actually really bumped me.

Oil in his vocal actuator.

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I've just started campaign but I've got a question about Exo, ala Cayde.

Why was he coughing so much and breathing heavily? He's a robot. This actually really bumped me.

Oil in his vocal actuator.

Ship it.
:)

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Air circulation is also really important in a lot of modern machines. I doubt an Exo would be that different in needing some type of airflow.

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Air circulation is also really important in a lot of modern machines. I doubt an Exo would be that different in needing some type of airflow.

Is that how Exos work? I'm fine with giving robots human characteristics to add personality, but to the point that when they are dying, they are coughing and gasping and their chest is heaving to and fro. I can get behind this if "breathing" is necessary for an Exo to survive. Otherwise, when a computer is on its last leg, there should be a personified equivalent of a "safe mode."

I recognize that how his death was handled was a personal moment and making him glitched out robot style would greatly effect the emotion of the scene... but something, anything to show that his "functions" are failing. I dunno. Just a random thought. This is the most unnecessary thing I've ever said, and response is not necessary.

ON ANOTHER NOTE: You have to admit, Mara and Uldren are both the sexiest creatures in the universe. Holy cow those two are beautiful. I know I'm supposed to hate Uldren but I could get lost in his eyes as we slow dance.

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I’m not very far yet (just opened up the Baron adventures), but I don’t like the way they are handling Uldren’s story so far.

He’s such an interesting character, but they’re not using him well. I’d have loved to see him be cunning and plotting and leading the Awoken for his own purpose, rather than (I’m assuming) being tricked by whatever is in the Dreaming City. Like, the fact that he just slaughtered half of his people is weird to me—why not turn them towards his purpose? I feel like would have been more interesting.

It gets back to what I was talking about with the Spider. I love seeing different people and factions represented with their own motivations. Seeing an Awoken civil war could have been cool and interesting, again, with the animosity between Guardians and the Reef coming into play.
Zavala willingly abandoning the Reef to its fate is an interesting angle we could explore, but as it stands it’s just a boring way to let us be the central character again.

And it’s odd, because Ikora’s way would let the story and gameplay match up. Instead of the player being the lone Guardian seeking revenge, we could have had Guardian’s everywhere descending on the Reef, allowing the fact that there are actually a million Guardians in the Tangled Shore make sense, rather than having the game mechanics and the story at odds with each other. I wish Bungie would accept the type of game they’re developing and mold the story around it, rather than fighting it at every turn.

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There’s quite a bit of Uldren scheming in the lore. There’s a whole story about his journey into the Black Garden which I only have parts of but which looks real interesting. There’s also one small story talking about why he despises Guardians and the things he did to them. Killing them a few times wasn’t the meanest thing he did, for instance. When he started burying Patrol Beacons just far enough under ground that Guardians could find them but not activate them... that’s when he got nasty. :p

Ultimately, he didn’t use his people for his own ends because his actions were never really directed at his ends. He was trying to free his sister from the Dreaming City, but she was never actually trapped there. The creature trapped there was clearly distorting his mind and using his devotion to his sister to get him to do terrible things.

Fortunately, it seems we arrived in time to stop the thing trapped in The Dreaming City from getting out... or did we?! Or did it actually want out in the first place? Things are going to get really interesting once raiding starts. You can go read the 22,000ish word history of the Awoken that’s linked off a reply to my last topic and learn who all the players are that influenced Uldren and who will influence us. I could just say “the big bad is X working at the behest of Y for the purpose of Z, and I will eventually. But, I think this whole evolution of The Dreaming City over the next few weeks that Bungie has teased is going to be very interesting to watch unfold. Both from a gameplay sense and in the way the gameplay and lore merge.

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And I'll accept all that. I read a few of those cards, and they're fascinating. I want to get more of them before I really dive in. And I think they're great.

I guess, at a certain point, why does the creature in the Dreaming City want the Awoken dead, rather than under control? Wouldn't they be useful to have around?

Again, I'm not very far in the story, maybe that wouldn't make sense.

Really, I just think there would have been a more interesting, subtle angle that could have made for a more interesting story. Maybe that's just a problem with my expectations, wanting Destiny to tell a story that it just never well. I really find the "bad guy of the month" trope to be boring, almost inherently. Like I said before, we killed Oryx, everything else feels weak by comparison. I want to see Destiny tell more personal stories, stories about the actual people that live within the Universe. Less big bad guys with unknowable motivations, more smaller bad guys or morally questionable guys with interesting stories. Uldren's motivation (wanting to free his sister is great), but why couldn't they really make that the actual focus, let us actually get to know Uldren some, rather than just having him be a puppet for the raid boss.

Keep in mind, I am really nitpicking here. For as little as I've seen, this is still the best storytelling Destiny has ever done. I just want to get to know all the characters more, and not just have everything be secondary to whatever big bad we have to fight this week. I feel like we're stuck in one of the mid-series SG-1 seasons hunting Goa'uld over and over again and dealing with the Replicators, with none of it really getting anywhere. But we're missing all of the smaller character driven episodes that make that all bearable or even enjoyable.

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Ultimately, he didn’t use his people for his own ends because his actions were never really directed at his ends. He was trying to free his sister from the Dreaming City, but she was never actually trapped there. The creature trapped there was clearly distorting his mind and using his devotion to his sister to get him to do terrible things.

So in regards to the endgame boss and dreaming city... I would not read this if you haven't gotten to the dreaming city if you want to stay spoiler free.

I just assumed Riven was some bad creature that was trapped in the dreaming city/other plane and that was some malicious thing. But after thinking about Riven again, knowing it's made from light and darkness makes sense for the dreaming city aspect. However, it wasn't until [dreaming city spoiler] Petra talks to Mara Sov that they mention that Riven was familiar to them, as if it was a good friend that got tainted by the taken. And it makes me believe that Riven was one of the Techeuns that might have gotten corrupted? Because when you play the mission to get to the dreaming city, you see what look like Techeuns right before you are teleported into the taken realm. It's also stated in the [dreaming city spoiler] conversation with Mara Sov that she is fighting a battle that is constantly happening and that she needs to get back to it.

My bet is that Mara Sov and her Techeuns where somehow transported to the taken realm right before her ship exploded. And that she is either fighting to get out, although that didn't seem the case from the conversation, or she is trying to seize the power of the taken from Oryx or maybe one of the sisters.

I might add that the idea of a character that is off fighting a battle in some other time and place seems very familiar... maybe like the Stranger?

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And it’s odd, because Ikora’s way would let the story and gameplay match up. Instead of the player being the lone Guardian seeking revenge, we could have had Guardian’s everywhere descending on the Reef, allowing the fact that there are actually a million Guardians in the Tangled Shore make sense, rather than having the game mechanics and the story at odds with each other. I wish Bungie would accept the type of game they’re developing and mold the story around it, rather than fighting it at every turn.

Yeah. I agree. For me, I just assume that while not every Guardian flooded the Reef as an invading army, enough of us were angry enough that where before there were basically no Guardians around, now there are several. But... yeah, if Bungie had just tweaked the story just a little there would be zero gap there...

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

...

Anyway...

This is the full on spoiler thread.

So I presume that means spoilers.

You should too.

Why?

Cus' spoilers... yo.

So if you even think you are going to play

From these posts you should go away.

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How can I say something about the story when I haven't finished it? Because none of us have, and if you are here, all of us has. So for the moment, I'm to speak about what "Triumphs -> Vanguard -> General: Vengeance", which is the "Campaign of Destiny 2: Forsaken". So when I say Space Testicle, you know what I'm talking about.

The story is, well, on it's own is the ever standard Destiny shallow... crap that we've with apathy "groaned" to expect. But it's not on it's own. It's a part. It's motivating chapter, the call towards action, and not a full course. For me, the campaign ultimately felt more a nuisance. The bone in way of the marrow. That's not to say I didn't have my moments of fun, just that sitting back and thinking about what transpired is not fun. It's just in the way.

For the sake of size, I'm leaving out a bunch of stuff for the moment. What I'm not holding back on, is that ending. I can't... I just... Dear heavens... I want to see the concept art for that ending. I mean, was there even!? ... No, wait. I'm going to push back in time abit before we talk about the Space Meatball.

Alright, so Uldren is hearing voices, and the final push is being made by the whispers in his head. Now correct me if I'm wrong - and I know you will - one of those whispers FLAT-OUT-SAYS "Oh Brother mine", or something to such an effect. Now I'm no Forum Cryptarch, but I know a linguistic pattern when I see/hear one, and THAT pattern implys ONE THING. Ahamkara.

So I go, "Holy Shit - I'm about to fight an Ahamkara?"

Now... with retrospect being what it is, had that one line not been there, I would have put up with the Space Weeaboo in stride. I would have still rolled my eyes, but in stride. Now, I'm just disappointed. Worse - they calling this… this… Toothed Space Vagina, a "chimera", which I guess works but... man is it disappointing. This last, thing, this… Tentacled Langelier, doesn’t look like they planed this. It looks, and plays, like a last minute thing. Perhaps it’s because whatever they’ve planned on will be in the raid, but… seeing as apparently a fair number of people never get to play the raid, that’s rather sad.

It was obnoxious to fight, confusing to look at, and simply out from left field story wise. The “Dark Heart” from OG Vanilla Destiny made more sense. Come ON!

Yet, none of us has finished story, so who knows, maybe Bungie can make a Space Butthole endearing. I doubt it, but we’ll see. After all, everything else so far has been flippen awesome.

Oh. One more thing. The Awoken = Tolkien Elves. Confirmed. The Dreaming City... Wow.

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I've been back and forth on Cayde a lot.

Ultimately, I mostly land where you do, Cruel. He was great in the Taken King, then they cranked it up to the point of being ridiculous.

The first mission of Forsaken had me bouncing back and forth on him more than ever. Some of his jokes landed for me, some moments had me rolling my eyes pretty hard. The bit where he was in the room dicking with the security system really worked for me. The way he entered the prison by just jumping over the ledge worked as well. But lots of his dialog was straight up bad.

The cutscene at the end of the mission is like perfect Cayde, though. Being a badass, cracking some jokes, but nothing over the top, then some real emotion at the end. That's the Cayde I loved, and I think it was ultimately a great note that lets me remember Cayde fondly rather than just being glad he's dead.

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I've been back and forth on Cayde a lot.

Ultimately, I mostly land where you do, Cruel. He was great in the Taken King, then they cranked it up to the point of being ridiculous.

The first mission of Forsaken had me bouncing back and forth on him more than ever. Some of his jokes landed for me, some moments had me rolling my eyes pretty hard. The bit where he was in the room dicking with the security system really worked for me. The way he entered the prison by just jumping over the ledge worked as well. But lots of his dialog was straight up bad.

Agreed. I kept wondering if I would have been OK with the cheesy dialogue if I wasn't also adjusting to a new voice actor, but either way, nearly everything Cayde said during that mission bugged the crap out of me. I am really sad that Nathan Fillion didn't get to play Cayde's final scenes :(

The cutscene at the end of the mission is like perfect Cayde, though. Being a badass, cracking some jokes, but nothing over the top, then some real emotion at the end. That's the Cayde I loved, and I think it was ultimately a great note that lets me remember Cayde fondly rather than just being glad he's dead.

Agreed here, too. I guess if I'm honest, I just want Cayde to be Exo Malcom Reynolds, and I think that's what we got all through the Barons fight and in his final scenes.

-Disciple

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Remember when I said that Tangled Shores was my favourite D2 location? Well that was before I’d reached the Dreaming City. Sweet Christmas, Bungie’s art team have outdone themselves.

I’m pretty sure I found the entrance to the Raid O_o

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Remember when I said that Tangled Shores was my favourite D2 location? Well that was before I’d reached the Dreaming City. Sweet Christmas, Bungie’s art team have outdone themselves.

I’m pretty sure I found the entrance to the Raid O_o

*** Dreaming City Spoilers ***

I had a strange night last night... fell asleep at 8pm, woke up at 2am and then stayed up the rest of the night playing Destiny. I started the night by unlocking access to the Dreaming City. Since it was so late, none of my friends were online. This early into Forsake, I'm guessing that not many people have progressed far enough to reach the Dreaming City, so there weren't many other guardians in the patrol space (I saw other players occasionally, but for the most part I was by myself).

When you first enter the Dreaming City, there's a short introductory mission that leads you towards the main patrol space, and culminates in you being granted access to the new patrol space (similar to the first mission in Rise of Iron, where you had to make your way up the mountain and retake it, which then unlocked the area as a social space).

I loved this intro mission. Stellar scenery and art design (it's like Lord of the Rings in space!), plus the plot at this point is beginning to drive towards more of the lore that I find fascinating.

I am a bit torn by what happens after that intro mission. You get dropped down into one region of the Dreaming City patrol space, with no specific instructions aside from a Vendor node on the map, and a Milestone that says "Complete 3 weekly challenges in the Dreaming City". I eventually made my way over to Petra (she's the vendor for this destination) and picked up all her Bounties. There were a bunch of daily bounties, and a few weekly bounties. I assume these weekly bounties are the "3 weekly challenges" that the milestone tracker refers to.

Here's the thing; of those 3 bounties, only one of them is an objective that I know how to complete. The other 2 either tell me to kill something that I've never heard of and don't know where to find, or tell me to acquire something that I have no clue how to acquire. Now, when I say "here's the thing", I don't mean that its a bad "thing". I could be a great thing. The idea of having this gorgeous, mysterious location that we need to collectively explore and figure out sounds awesome to me. But yet again, I wish the game was a little more clear about what is expected of me at this point, because the way it is presented is so jarring that I can't help wondering if I've missed something. You arrive at the Dreaming City, there's a big plot reveal and an objective that you are given (through dialogue in the cutscene), and then when you load into the patrol space, there's nothing on the map or in your menu about the objective you were just told... instead there's just this "complete 3 weekly challenges" milestone. The other thing that's a bit strange is that, at just over 500 light, I'm drastically under-leveled for this space. Everything seems to be at least 540 ll, or higher (1 lost sector in particular was filled with enemies that I couldn't even damage, so they must be at least 550 or 560). This makes exploration kind of stressful, since there are lots of areas that are tough to get through without being slaughtered.

Yet despite all this, I spend at least 2 hours slowly making my way around the patrol space, completing a few patrols and public events, searching hidden nooks and caves. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm pretty sure I found the entrance to the Raid. It's super cool. Can't wait to go back there with a team. I'm thoroughly captivated by this destination and am excited to go straight back and spend more time exploring, searching for puzzles, and just being in that place. Even though I find my point in the mission continuity to be a bit jarring, the location itself is more than good enough to keep more playing while I figure out what to do next.

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I agree with basically all of that. I felt it was jarring, but I also felt like I was back on the leviathan. There was so much stuff that was just a mystery to me. I spent a couple hours just exploring and I was finding things that was sure to be cool later on.

One example was a thing that required 3 arc orbs. I was like "YEAH! I found my first puzzle!" So I look around for a bit and find what looks like a brazier with an arc orb resting in it, and I got REALLY excited. So I pick it up and start heading back to where the thing was, but I got lost and the arc orb expired. I was sad for a bit until I saw some rando back at 3 arc orb location and so I try to get his attention to show him where the arc orb spawned. I lead him back eventually and the orb hasn't respawned so I'm sure he was super confused.

It wasn't until later that I found that one of the public events actually spawns arc orbs, so I tried my best to capture them and get them to the spot. I managed to get 2 of them by the end of the Public Event. I then head over to the place where the other one spawned and it was there!! I was so happy know this was going to happen! So I run it over to the thing, shaking with excitement. My first puzzle! It isn't until I plop the third orb down that I realize that there is a chest in the middle of the three orb holders. It opens and gives me my reward... planetary resources and blue pants :P

So the reward was actually doing it, but still soooo much fun. Like the good ol' days of the leviathan.

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Where do you think the entrance to the Raid is? I’m under the impression we go to the larger walled part of the city via the super big bridge during a cutscene...

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Where do you think the entrance to the Raid is? I’m under the impression we go to the larger walled part of the city via the super big bridge during a cutscene...

*** DREAMING CITY SPOILERS ***

From the patrol landing zone, you need to go back down towards the building where you first meet up with Petra (when she speaks to Mara). Then turn around and start walking back up the path towards the Patrol zone that you just came from. From the courtyard outside of that building, there is a bridge that you've just crossed. If you are on that bridge, facing in the direction that takes you back to the main patrol space (with that building I just mentioned behind you), you want to look over the left edge of the bridge, and down. You'll see a small path below and to the side of the main path that leads to the patrol zone. Jump down there, and you'll find a cave and a portal. Go through the portal and you'll find yourself in a grand palace or temple, which I assume is at the top of the mountain in the center of the patrol zone (which theoretically is on one end of that super long bridge we've seen in the trailers).

I could be totally wrong about this being part of the raid. It might be part of some other mission or quest. The palace just struck me as being so grand and epic that "it must be part of the raid" (<- my thoughts). But then, everything in the Dreaming City is grand and epic :)

I'll record a video of the entrance location tonight when I get home. Did a quick search on youtube, but couldn't find one already posted.

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There are at least three portals in The Dreaming City that connect to different points within it. I explored extensively over the past couple of days and I don't think anything I reached will have anything to do with the Raid. But... it's also a massive and confusing place.

My favorite things so far:

Most of The Dreaming City is Powerlevel 510, while some of the challenging parts are like 540... which is high enough to make enemies ??? invincible when you are in the 400s. I breached 500 last night and suddenly I could explore everywhere. Some of the fights were really tough by myself, but nothing stood in my way in the end.

The Gardens of Esila are probably my favorite locations. You can see the main garden in the distance from where Petra is. To the left of the beach Public Event location. It's the tall dome-like structure made of loops that has ivy and stuff growing off of them. There's a bunch of challenging enemies, but it is so beautiful.

Harbinger's Seclude is also beautiful and mysterious. Also... there are the bones (and spirits?!) of a pair of dead Ahamkara there! They will trade materials with you... There's also a working elevator!

I love that Patrol Beacons are Awoken Corsairs!

Speaking of Corsairs, I found an interesting mini mission that involved tracking one down.

There are also multiple Arc Cores hidden around The Dreaming City that you can pick up and presumably use to charge or power... something. For instance, see if you can find the one near Petra Venj! There's another one out in the mists a little past the generator you have to defend on the beach in Petra's area. There's probably more!

I found a Lost Sector that had a puzzle involving Servitor Balls. (Remember the mini Servitor you could roll around the Vestian Outpost in D1? Those things. Several of them.)

I found the Blind Well (I mean... it's on the map so it's not hard) but have not activated it yet. I want a team with me when I do...

There's a ton of scripting and enemies and battles that have multiple waves that get harder almost everywhere. Even in the farthest reaches I've gotten to I've been challenged by interesting enemy encounters. If nothing else, this space is a challenge to explore!

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***DREAMING CITY SPOILERS***

There are at least three portals in The Dreaming City that connect to different points within it. I explored extensively over the past couple of days and I don't think anything I reached will have anything to do with the Raid. But... it's also a massive and confusing place.

My favorite things so far:

Most of The Dreaming City is Powerlevel 510, while some of the challenging parts are like 540... which is high enough to make enemies ??? invincible when you are in the 400s. I breached 500 last night and suddenly I could explore everywhere. Some of the fights were really tough by myself, but nothing stood in my way in the end.

There is definitely at least 1 area that goes above 540. There's a Lost Sector near the very center of the map... you reach it from within Petra's zone. Not only did the enemies in this lost sector have skulls over their heads, but I literally could not damage them, and I was over 500 at the time. Just a few minutes earlier, I had cleared another Lost Sector that was 540 without much trouble. I don't know how much higher these foes would need to be in order to be invincible to a 500 guardian, but I'm guessing in the 550-560 range at least.

I love that Patrol Beacons are Awoken Corsairs!

Right!? It's so cool. There is also at least one point on the map where the Corsairs are defending a position against attacking Skorn. It's funny how excited I was just to see NPCs fighting each other :)

Speaking of Corsairs, I found an interesting mini mission that involved tracking one down.

Was that a patrol-beacon mission, or just something that you happened across?

There are also multiple Arc Cores hidden around The Dreaming City that you can pick up and presumably use to charge or power... something. For instance, see if you can find the one near Petra Venj! There's another one out in the mists a little past the generator you have to defend on the beach in Petra's area. There's probably more!

There is at least 1 chest that can be unlocked by Arc cells

I found a Lost Sector that had a puzzle involving Servitor Balls. (Remember the mini Servitor you could roll around the Vestian Outpost in D1? Those things. Several of them.)

Is it the one right next to the landing zone? I saw a mini Servitor rolling around there, but thought nothing of it. I'll need to go back :)

I found the Blind Well (I mean... it's on the map so it's not hard) but have not activated it yet. I want a team with me when I do...

I wandered in there and found a Blueberry in the middle of an activity. There was a sort of dome shield over the pit in the middle of the room. We basically had to stand in it and survive a wave of Skorn that attacked us. When it ended, there was a button prompt while standing next to the pillar in the middle, which I believe would activate the next "tier" of the challenge, but I couldn't activate it. It requires some kind of currency that you buy from Petra. Looks like there are several versions of the currency, with different versions used to activate different tiers of the challenge. There was no reward for completing Tier 1, so it doesn't seem particularly worth doing (from a loot point of view) unless you also have the currency to activate later tiers.

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Was that a patrol-beacon mission, or just something that you happened across?

Not a patrol beacon I don't think. I forget how it happened. I think it popped up in the world or after turning in a bounty or something...

There is at least 1 chest that can be unlocked by Arc cells

Heh. I had, earlier, found such a chest then forgot about it. Thanks for the reminder!

Is it the one right next to the landing zone? I saw a mini Servitor rolling around there, but thought nothing of it. I'll need to go back :)

Maybe... I'd have to check but I think maybe it was.

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Was that a patrol-beacon mission, or just something that you happened across?

Not a patrol beacon I don't think. I forget how it happened. I think it popped up in the world or after turning in a bounty or something...

I have an item in my inventory saying I that there is a faint SOS from a corsair and I should find him. So maybe that's it?

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I literally just got that. It just dropped from a random Scorn that I killed.

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*** DREAMING CITY SPOILERS ***

Where do you think the entrance to the Raid is? I’m under the impression we go to the larger walled part of the city via the super big bridge during a cutscene...

So I went back yesterday to the teleporter I’d found with the intention of recording a quick, 2 minute video tour of me entering and then walking around this location. I found the cave, went through the teleporter, and began walking around the palace, only to discover that it is waaaaaay bigger than I initially thought. I found a bunch more rooms and courtyards, teleporter that lead to other areas of the palace, some very interesting skulls that you can trade with...
All of these areas are actually off the map (meaning if you look at the region map, the player marker is way off to the top-right, beyond the boundaries of the map).

Finally, I found another teleporter that connects back to a different location in the main patrol space. It put me in some kind of “garden”, at the very bottom of Petra’s patrol zone.

I did broadcast through Mixer while I was doing all this, but apparently Mixer doesn’t save broadcasts once you’re done (unless there’s something I’m missing?).

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*** DREAMING CITY SPOILERS ***

Where do you think the entrance to the Raid is? I’m under the impression we go to the larger walled part of the city via the super big bridge during a cutscene...

So I went back yesterday to the teleporter I’d found with the intention of recording a quick, 2 minute video tour of me entering and then walking around this location. I found the cave, went through the teleporter, and began walking around the palace, only to discover that it is waaaaaay bigger than I initially thought. I found a bunch more rooms and courtyards, teleporter that lead to other areas of the palace, some very interesting skulls that you can trade with...
All of these areas are actually off the map (meaning if you look at the region map, the player marker is way off to the top-right, beyond the boundaries of the map).

Finally, I found another teleporter that connects back to a different location in the main patrol space. It put me in some kind of “garden”, at the very bottom of Petra’s patrol zone.

I did broadcast through Mixer while I was doing all this, but apparently Mixer doesn’t save broadcasts once you’re done (unless there’s something I’m missing?).

You found the spot everyone needs to see. The spot where you'll know you are in the right place when you stop running, and start walking - if that.

There is more to this space, and I've been using it as my secret short cut sience I posted about it. Again... everyone needs to see this space. It's not only is is stunning (through I wonder if that word even had any meaning) but I... again... think that it's going to change. There is something in this space that I think imply how. Could.

Those Skulls, by the way, are not implicitly part of the aforementioned space. I would suugject you give your 50 offerings, collect the blessing, and, for example say hello to Petra's area. Also if you go up the elevator, you will eventually find yourself into a grand hall. GRAND. HALL. In fact... I wonder if you can still call it a hall?

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*** DREAMING CITY SPOILERS ***

Where do you think the entrance to the Raid is? I’m under the impression we go to the larger walled part of the city via the super big bridge during a cutscene...

So I went back yesterday to the teleporter I’d found with the intention of recording a quick, 2 minute video tour of me entering and then walking around this location. I found the cave, went through the teleporter, and began walking around the palace, only to discover that it is waaaaaay bigger than I initially thought. I found a bunch more rooms and courtyards, teleporter that lead to other areas of the palace, some very interesting skulls that you can trade with...
All of these areas are actually off the map (meaning if you look at the region map, the player marker is way off to the top-right, beyond the boundaries of the map).

Finally, I found another teleporter that connects back to a different location in the main patrol space. It put me in some kind of “garden”, at the very bottom of Petra’s patrol zone.

I did broadcast through Mixer while I was doing all this, but apparently Mixer doesn’t save broadcasts once you’re done (unless there’s something I’m missing?).

You found the spot everyone needs to see. The spot where you'll know you are in the right place when you stop running, and start walking - if that.

There is more to this space, and I've been using it as my secret short cut sience I posted about it. Again... everyone needs to see this space. It's not only is is stunning (through I wonder if that word even had any meaning) but I... again... think that it's going to change. There is something in this space that I think imply how. Could.

Those Skulls, by the way, are not implicitly part of the aforementioned space. I would suugject you give your 50 offerings, collect the blessing, and, for example say hello to Petra's area. Also if you go up the elevator, you will eventually find yourself into a grand hall. GRAND. HALL. In fact... I wonder if you can still call it a hall?

... Elevator?

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*** DREAMING CITY SPOILERS ***

Where do you think the entrance to the Raid is? I’m under the impression we go to the larger walled part of the city via the super big bridge during a cutscene...

So I went back yesterday to the teleporter I’d found with the intention of recording a quick, 2 minute video tour of me entering and then walking around this location. I found the cave, went through the teleporter, and began walking around the palace, only to discover that it is waaaaaay bigger than I initially thought. I found a bunch more rooms and courtyards, teleporter that lead to other areas of the palace, some very interesting skulls that you can trade with...
All of these areas are actually off the map (meaning if you look at the region map, the player marker is way off to the top-right, beyond the boundaries of the map).

Finally, I found another teleporter that connects back to a different location in the main patrol space. It put me in some kind of “garden”, at the very bottom of Petra’s patrol zone.

I did broadcast through Mixer while I was doing all this, but apparently Mixer doesn’t save broadcasts once you’re done (unless there’s something I’m missing?).

You found the spot everyone needs to see. The spot where you'll know you are in the right place when you stop running, and start walking - if that.

There is more to this space, and I've been using it as my secret short cut sience I posted about it. Again... everyone needs to see this space. It's not only is is stunning (through I wonder if that word even had any meaning) but I... again... think that it's going to change. There is something in this space that I think imply how. Could.

Those Skulls, by the way, are not implicitly part of the aforementioned space. I would suugject you give your 50 offerings, collect the blessing, and, for example say hello to Petra's area. Also if you go up the elevator, you will eventually find yourself into a grand hall. GRAND. HALL. In fact... I wonder if you can still call it a hall?

... Elevator?

[img]https://giphy.com/gifs/mashable-l3q2K5jinAlChoCLS[/img ]

Yep. In the room with the Skulls of... whatever they are.

You turn left, find where X marks the spot and up you go. It Connects to... whatever the place is called on the Top Right of the Map.

Edit: Also! Be careful in this area until you can get your light up a bit. Foes here are at 550. Then again... that's part of the fun right?

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Yep. In the room with the Skulls of... whatever they are.

I haven't been here yet, so it might feel totally different in-game... but this pic reminds me of this:

[image]

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Yep. In the room with the Skulls of... whatever they are.

I haven't been here yet, so it might feel totally different in-game... but this pic reminds me of this:

it's funny you mention that. I've been getting more "Halo" vibes through this expansion than at any other time in Destiny. Particularly in the Dreaming City. I've made a big deal about the "Lord of the Rings" similarities, but there's definitely something to the juxtaposition of ancient, elegant, monolithic alien structures surrounded by picturesque mountains, valleys, ravines and waterfalls that reminds me of Halo and Delta Halo.

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*** DREAMING CITY SPOILERS ***

Where do you think the entrance to the Raid is? I’m under the impression we go to the larger walled part of the city via the super big bridge during a cutscene...

So I went back yesterday to the teleporter I’d found with the intention of recording a quick, 2 minute video tour of me entering and then walking around this location. I found the cave, went through the teleporter, and began walking around the palace, only to discover that it is waaaaaay bigger than I initially thought. I found a bunch more rooms and courtyards, teleporter that lead to other areas of the palace, some very interesting skulls that you can trade with...
All of these areas are actually off the map (meaning if you look at the region map, the player marker is way off to the top-right, beyond the boundaries of the map).

Finally, I found another teleporter that connects back to a different location in the main patrol space. It put me in some kind of “garden”, at the very bottom of Petra’s patrol zone.

I did broadcast through Mixer while I was doing all this, but apparently Mixer doesn’t save broadcasts once you’re done (unless there’s something I’m missing?).

You found the spot everyone needs to see. The spot where you'll know you are in the right place when you stop running, and start walking - if that.

There is more to this space, and I've been using it as my secret short cut sience I posted about it. Again... everyone needs to see this space. It's not only is is stunning (through I wonder if that word even had any meaning) but I... again... think that it's going to change. There is something in this space that I think imply how. Could.

Those Skulls, by the way, are not implicitly part of the aforementioned space. I would suugject you give your 50 offerings, collect the blessing, and, for example say hello to Petra's area. Also if you go up the elevator, you will eventually find yourself into a grand hall. GRAND. HALL. In fact... I wonder if you can still call it a hall?

... Elevator?

[img]https://giphy.com/gifs/mashable-l3q2K5jinAlChoCLS[/img ]

Yep. In the room with the Skulls of... whatever they are.

You turn left, find where X marks the spot and up you go. It Connects to... whatever the place is called on the Top Right of the Map.

Edit: Also! Be careful in this area until you can get your light up a bit. Foes here are at 550. Then again... that's part of the fun right?

So I went back and found the elevator, fought through a bunch of courtyards, and eventually made my way out through what is apparently the front door to the whole place. It's in the Rheasilvia region, top-right corner (you can actually see the entrance way on the map, where there's a break in the "boarder" of the zone). So those 2 teleporters I found before were just the back exits, lol.

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*** DREAMING CITY SPOILERS ***

Where do you think the entrance to the Raid is? I’m under the impression we go to the larger walled part of the city via the super big bridge during a cutscene...

So I went back yesterday to the teleporter I’d found with the intention of recording a quick, 2 minute video tour of me entering and then walking around this location. I found the cave, went through the teleporter, and began walking around the palace, only to discover that it is waaaaaay bigger than I initially thought. I found a bunch more rooms and courtyards, teleporter that lead to other areas of the palace, some very interesting skulls that you can trade with...
All of these areas are actually off the map (meaning if you look at the region map, the player marker is way off to the top-right, beyond the boundaries of the map).

Finally, I found another teleporter that connects back to a different location in the main patrol space. It put me in some kind of “garden”, at the very bottom of Petra’s patrol zone.

I did broadcast through Mixer while I was doing all this, but apparently Mixer doesn’t save broadcasts once you’re done (unless there’s something I’m missing?).

You found the spot everyone needs to see. The spot where you'll know you are in the right place when you stop running, and start walking - if that.

There is more to this space, and I've been using it as my secret short cut sience I posted about it. Again... everyone needs to see this space. It's not only is is stunning (through I wonder if that word even had any meaning) but I... again... think that it's going to change. There is something in this space that I think imply how. Could.

Those Skulls, by the way, are not implicitly part of the aforementioned space. I would suugject you give your 50 offerings, collect the blessing, and, for example say hello to Petra's area. Also if you go up the elevator, you will eventually find yourself into a grand hall. GRAND. HALL. In fact... I wonder if you can still call it a hall?

... Elevator?

[img]https://giphy.com/gifs/mashable-l3q2K5jinAlChoCLS[/img ]

Yep. In the room with the Skulls of... whatever they are.

You turn left, find where X marks the spot and up you go. It Connects to... whatever the place is called on the Top Right of the Map.

Edit: Also! Be careful in this area until you can get your light up a bit. Foes here are at 550. Then again... that's part of the fun right?

So I went back and found the elevator, fought through a bunch of courtyards, and eventually made my way out through what is apparently the front door to the whole place. It's in the Rheasilvia region, top-right corner (you can actually see the entrance way on the map, where there's a break in the "boarder" of the zone). So those 2 teleporters I found before were just the back exits, lol.

Yep. :)

I don't think of the portals/teleporters as exits (or entrances), more like... shortcuts. Alternate paths with far fewer (as in none currently) foes shooting at you. A touch more senic too.

There are, to my knowledge as they are currently, three. one in the Gardens, one in the "Church" and one in the... lobby?

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So are we going to talk about the flying spaghetti monster, or what? Is it just me, or did the phrase "oh Brother mine" seem... emphasized? That thing didn't look like a dragon to me, but then it was also labeled "The Voice of Riven," like it was just an emissary for something else. I think I like where this is going.

I loved the Barons. Some of them felt almost Borderlands-ish to me, in a good way. Especially The Rider.

Needing Masterwork cores for an infuse is the lamest shit ever. Makes me want to put the game down once I get through all the story stuff, honestly. There do appear to be a few new sources, but they're still not exactly raining from the sky - to be honest, I think with the reduced drop rate for masterworked legendaries (which I haven't actually seen one of yet) it might just end up being the same rate of acquisition as before. I like some of the new items I'm finding, for sure, but there are plenty of old ones I'd like to get current, and the only reason I can't is this masterwork cores thing.

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I loved the Barons. Some of them felt almost Borderlands-ish to me, in a good way. Especially The Rider.

The Barons are awesome. I actually think The Rider is my least favorite, though. Great concept, but the fight just wasn’t very fun or interesting. It was very easy and quick. I’m glad they gave us a neat vehicle segment, but it just made me think about how much I miss Halo’s vehicle sandbox, and it feels so half-hearted by comparison.

I really liked the whole Mad Bomber mission, but I think the Hangman was might favorite fight. I had just obtained a cool new kinetic shotgun, which worked out really well for that cramped room, but it was still incredibly intense.

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The Barons are awesome. I actually think The Rider is my least favorite, though. Great concept, but the fight just wasn’t very fun or interesting. It was very easy and quick. I’m glad they gave us a neat vehicle segment, but it just made me think about how much I miss Halo’s vehicle sandbox, and it feels so half-hearted by comparison.

Oh, I just meant that it seemed the most Borderlands-ish. With the sputtering boost comedy bit and the flame trails from the Pike. It really could have BEEN a Borderlands mission.

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The Barons are awesome. I actually think The Rider is my least favorite, though. Great concept, but the fight just wasn’t very fun or interesting. It was very easy and quick. I’m glad they gave us a neat vehicle segment, but it just made me think about how much I miss Halo’s vehicle sandbox, and it feels so half-hearted by comparison.

Oh, I just meant that it seemed the most Borderlands-ish. With the sputtering boost comedy bit and the flame trails from the Pike. It really could have BEEN a Borderlands mission.

Yeah that’s definitely true.

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If you're trying to infuse up old gear, try grabbing a copy from your Collection. When you have two of the same item, it only costs glimmer to infuse it.

For everything else, there's MasterCard.

Wait, no. But really, for everything else, don't bother trying to infuse, just keep whatever highest Light in your pocket and delete anything that you don't want to keep and isn't highest Light.

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Needing Masterwork cores for an infuse is the lamest shit ever.

Needing anything more for infusing is the lamest shit ever. I'm not glued to the game 24/7. I have a life. I have other games (which are frankly often more interesting) to play.

It was a big enough pain in the ass just getting shards to keep on hand, and now I'm expected to have a massive stock pile of shards in addition to micromanaging world mats. As far as I'm concerned, this is an openly player hostile change. And now shit needs Masterwork Cores too?

Super.

So the thing I already never saw the point of and collected so slowly it took the better part of a year before I had enough on hand that I could shrug and say, "Meh, just dump em on my armor to get rid of them", I'm going to need to actually infuse my armor.

Why am I playing this game again?

There were multiple problems with D2 when it launched. The way it handled progression and infusion so you could quickly move up the ladder playing what you wanted was not one of them.

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Needing Masterwork cores for an infuse is the lamest shit ever.

Needing anything more for infusing is the lamest shit ever. I'm not glued to the game 24/7. I have a life. I have other games (which are frankly often more interesting) to play.

It was a big enough pain in the ass just getting shards to keep on hand, and now I'm expected to have a massive stock pile of shards in addition to micromanaging world mats. As far as I'm concerned, this is an openly player hostile change. And now shit needs Masterwork Cores too?

Super.

So the thing I already never saw the point of and collected so slowly it took the better part of a year before I had enough on hand that I could shrug and say, "Meh, just dump em on my armor to get rid of them", I'm going to need to actually infuse my armor.

Why am I playing this game again?

Because it's fun to play? If that isn't true, then you shouldn't be playing.

There were multiple problems with D2 when it launched. The way it handled progression and infusion so you could quickly move up the ladder playing what you wanted was not one of them.

As far as I'm concerned, the progression to 500 is super easy and fluid which is all you need to complete the campaign. It becomes bit harder once you start going after end game events.

You also don't need to infuse ANYTHING to play the entire forsaken campaign. Infusing is a bonus on top of all the gear you get. I've infused maybe 2-3 things. They are putting less emphasis on infusing by a LOT in this expansion. So don't think of it as one of those necessary things you gotta do.

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Needing Masterwork cores for an infuse is the lamest shit ever.

Needing anything more for infusing is the lamest shit ever. I'm not glued to the game 24/7. I have a life. I have other games (which are frankly often more interesting) to play.

It was a big enough pain in the ass just getting shards to keep on hand, and now I'm expected to have a massive stock pile of shards in addition to micromanaging world mats. As far as I'm concerned, this is an openly player hostile change. And now shit needs Masterwork Cores too?

Super.

So the thing I already never saw the point of and collected so slowly it took the better part of a year before I had enough on hand that I could shrug and say, "Meh, just dump em on my armor to get rid of them", I'm going to need to actually infuse my armor.

Why am I playing this game again?

Because it's fun to play? If that isn't true, then you shouldn't be playing.

There were multiple problems with D2 when it launched. The way it handled progression and infusion so you could quickly move up the ladder playing what you wanted was not one of them.

As far as I'm concerned, the progression to 500 is super easy and fluid which is all you need to complete the campaign. It becomes bit harder once you start going after end game events.

You also don't need to infuse ANYTHING to play the entire forsaken campaign. Infusing is a bonus on top of all the gear you get. I've infused maybe 2-3 things. They are putting less emphasis on infusing by a LOT in this expansion. So don't think of it as one of those necessary things you gotta do.

Pretty much agree with this. There are now so many sources of drops that will increase your light level, levelling up is the smoothest that it’s ever been.

However...

That’s not really what infusion is about. Infusion is basically a way of taking your favourite old stuff and keeping it usable. And in a game where it can take a very large amount of playtime to acquire some of these weapons or pieces of armor, I do think it’s a bit of a dick move to make so obscenely expensive to infuse it upward. I put a lot of time, effort, and energy into my masterworked Whisper of the Worm. So obviously, I’d like to be able to use the damn thing. Now, I’m not the average player. I’m able to put more time into Destiny than a lot of other people. So I went into Forsaken with enough resources to infuse a select few favourite weapons up to 500, and I’m glad about that because I’m having a blast. But I do sympathize with players who don’t spend as much time playing as I do, and are looking at the cost of infusion and thinking “WTF?!”.

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Needing Masterwork cores for an infuse is the lamest shit ever.

Needing anything more for infusing is the lamest shit ever. I'm not glued to the game 24/7. I have a life. I have other games (which are frankly often more interesting) to play.

It was a big enough pain in the ass just getting shards to keep on hand, and now I'm expected to have a massive stock pile of shards in addition to micromanaging world mats. As far as I'm concerned, this is an openly player hostile change. And now shit needs Masterwork Cores too?

Super.

So the thing I already never saw the point of and collected so slowly it took the better part of a year before I had enough on hand that I could shrug and say, "Meh, just dump em on my armor to get rid of them", I'm going to need to actually infuse my armor.

Why am I playing this game again?

Because it's fun to play? If that isn't true, then you shouldn't be playing.

There were multiple problems with D2 when it launched. The way it handled progression and infusion so you could quickly move up the ladder playing what you wanted was not one of them.

As far as I'm concerned, the progression to 500 is super easy and fluid which is all you need to complete the campaign. It becomes bit harder once you start going after end game events.

You also don't need to infuse ANYTHING to play the entire forsaken campaign. Infusing is a bonus on top of all the gear you get. I've infused maybe 2-3 things. They are putting less emphasis on infusing by a LOT in this expansion. So don't think of it as one of those necessary things you gotta do.

Pretty much agree with this. There are now so many sources of drops that will increase your light level, levelling up is the smoothest that it’s ever been.

However...

That’s not really what infusion is about. Infusion is basically a way of taking your favourite old stuff and keeping it usable. And in a game where it can take a very large amount of playtime to acquire some of these weapons or pieces of armor, I do think it’s a bit of a dick move to make so obscenely expensive to infuse it upward. I put a lot of time, effort, and energy into my masterworked Whisper of the Worm. So obviously, I’d like to be able to use the damn thing. Now, I’m not the average player. I’m able to put more time into Destiny than a lot of other people. So I went into Forsaken with enough resources to infuse a select few favourite weapons up to 500, and I’m glad about that because I’m having a blast. But I do sympathize with players who don’t spend as much time playing as I do, and are looking at the cost of infusion and thinking “WTF?!”.

(That's JUST 2. Not 2 Factorial.)

I can't use the stuff I want to use because its a lower light. :(

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Yep, exactly. No one's saying that it's hard to GET to 500. It isn't. But being at 500 with the gear I actually WANT to use is a very different question. I've played a lot over the past 2 days and I still only have enough masterwork cores to infuse 5-6 items. That might sound like a lot, but if you consider that I've got 1 kinetic weapon, 3-4 energies, and 3-4 heavies (for different elements, plus the odd exotic), PLUS the armor pieces... well, that's a lot. And, generally, that's per subclass, since I like to cater each build to a different playstyle. Granted, SOME of them are now Forsaken items which dropped recently, but since I was in the PROCESS of leveling when some of those dropped, even they aren't necessarily at 500.

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Pretty much agree with this. There are now so many sources of drops that will increase your light level, levelling up is the smoothest that it’s ever been.

However...

That’s not really what infusion is about. Infusion is basically a way of taking your favourite old stuff and keeping it usable. And in a game where it can take a very large amount of playtime to acquire some of these weapons or pieces of armor, I do think it’s a bit of a dick move to make so obscenely expensive to infuse it upward. I put a lot of time, effort, and energy into my masterworked Whisper of the Worm. So obviously, I’d like to be able to use the damn thing. Now, I’m not the average player. I’m able to put more time into Destiny than a lot of other people. So I went into Forsaken with enough resources to infuse a select few favourite weapons up to 500, and I’m glad about that because I’m having a blast. But I do sympathize with players who don’t spend as much time playing as I do, and are looking at the cost of infusion and thinking “WTF?!”.

Exactly. I'm more than open to finding new gear that I'll love, but until I do, I'd rather not be using Item #153 - A Rare Relic Of The Golden Age Part 37. I'd much rather keep using my tried and true standbys, and I can't do that if I have to keep dropping whatever enjoyable activity I'm doing to spend time bouncing between planets gathering mats, or waiting for RNGeesus to bestow a Masterwork Core unto me.

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Pretty much agree with this. There are now so many sources of drops that will increase your light level, levelling up is the smoothest that it’s ever been.

However...

That’s not really what infusion is about. Infusion is basically a way of taking your favourite old stuff and keeping it usable. And in a game where it can take a very large amount of playtime to acquire some of these weapons or pieces of armor, I do think it’s a bit of a dick move to make so obscenely expensive to infuse it upward. I put a lot of time, effort, and energy into my masterworked Whisper of the Worm. So obviously, I’d like to be able to use the damn thing. Now, I’m not the average player. I’m able to put more time into Destiny than a lot of other people. So I went into Forsaken with enough resources to infuse a select few favourite weapons up to 500, and I’m glad about that because I’m having a blast. But I do sympathize with players who don’t spend as much time playing as I do, and are looking at the cost of infusion and thinking “WTF?!”.

Exactly. I'm more than open to finding new gear that I'll love, but until I do, I'd rather not be using Item #153 - A Rare Relic Of The Golden Age Part 37. I'd much rather keep using my tried and true standbys, and I can't do that if I have to keep dropping whatever enjoyable activity I'm doing to spend time bouncing between planets gathering mats, or waiting for RNGeesus to bestow a Masterwork Core unto me.

I don't know about you guys, but this is a brand new meta of weapons and abilities. I personally would be living in the past if I was using the same weapon sets that I used in the last era of Destiny. Along with that, I personally can't tell a weapon is good just by looking at the stats. Sure, it helps to look at it, but until I use the gun I won't know how good it is. And the campaign is a great safe environment to do just that. I would worry about your tried and true weapon sets after the campaign when you will really need them.

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OK, I'm done with the campaign now. Where do you suggest I pick up my ten thousand masterwork cores?

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OK, I'm done with the campaign now. Where do you suggest I pick up my ten thousand masterwork cores?

The same place you can pick up 10,000 of anything. The game.

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Pretty much agree with this. There are now so many sources of drops that will increase your light level, levelling up is the smoothest that it’s ever been.

However...

That’s not really what infusion is about. Infusion is basically a way of taking your favourite old stuff and keeping it usable. And in a game where it can take a very large amount of playtime to acquire some of these weapons or pieces of armor, I do think it’s a bit of a dick move to make so obscenely expensive to infuse it upward. I put a lot of time, effort, and energy into my masterworked Whisper of the Worm. So obviously, I’d like to be able to use the damn thing. Now, I’m not the average player. I’m able to put more time into Destiny than a lot of other people. So I went into Forsaken with enough resources to infuse a select few favourite weapons up to 500, and I’m glad about that because I’m having a blast. But I do sympathize with players who don’t spend as much time playing as I do, and are looking at the cost of infusion and thinking “WTF?!”.

Exactly. I'm more than open to finding new gear that I'll love, but until I do, I'd rather not be using Item #153 - A Rare Relic Of The Golden Age Part 37. I'd much rather keep using my tried and true standbys, and I can't do that if I have to keep dropping whatever enjoyable activity I'm doing to spend time bouncing between planets gathering mats, or waiting for RNGeesus to bestow a Masterwork Core unto me.

I don't know about you guys, but this is a brand new meta of weapons and abilities. I personally would be living in the past if I was using the same weapon sets that I used in the last era of Destiny. Along with that, I personally can't tell a weapon is good just by looking at the stats. Sure, it helps to look at it, but until I use the gun I won't know how good it is. And the campaign is a great safe environment to do just that. I would worry about your tried and true weapon sets after the campaign when you will really need them.

I don’t see it as being cut and dry one way or the other. I certainly want to try out some of the new toys that come with each expansion. I take a look at each new drop that I get, if it looks interesting I’ll use it for 10 minutes. 99% if the time, I shard it and go back to what I was using before. I totally appreciate the argument that it’s a new expansion, so play with the new stuff! However, at this point in D2’s lifespan, a weapon needs to stand out in some significant way for me to be excited about using it. Being a player who spends a lot of time in the game, most of the weapons I use are top-tier. Most of the drops I’m getting now are just another average hand cannon or fusion rifle or sidearm... nothing that stands a chance of eclipsing what I’m already using.

And I think we all know that’s the real reason that infusion is so expensive. Most of the new guns simply can’t be as good as the best stuff we’ve already acquired, so Bungie needs to somehow force us into using the new blues and generic legendaries. Which for me ultimately makes me feel like I’m being de-powered. Even though the numbers on all my new weapons are higher than my old weapons, I feel less effective in combat. Doesn’t that run counter to the entire idea of increasing our light level? (<- this is where my inner cynic jumps in and says “light levels going up has never, ever, been about making the player feel more powerful. It’s purely about creating compulsion-driving dopemine hits while also time-gating content”, but I’ll tell my inner cynic to be quiet for now, lol).

All that said, there are ways around this trap and Bungie has already achieved it, at least partially. Bows are completely different than anything that was in the game before. Everyone will have their own opinions of them (I freaking love them), but there’s no denying that they are a literal game changer. By introducing a whole new class of weapon, Bungie completely sidestepped the power-creep dilemma I described above, because I simply can’t compare my new bow to any previous pieces of gear. It’s a new thing.

I think adding gear along these lines is the best way to avoid the tension that always seems to pop up whenever Bungie tinkers with our ability to bring our favourite old gear forward. I personally would be happier about playing through a new campaign with all-new gear if the gear was really NEW, not just inferior and forgettable versions of weapons I already have.

All that stuff aside, there’s another potential reason for some players to want to keep using their old gear (or at least some of it) through a new campaign; narrative consistency. In the timeline of Destiny 2, my guardian’s most recent actions were to rebuild the Sleeper Simulant, find all the IKELOS weapons and armor on Mars, then travel far under the surface of Io and discover the Whisper of the Worm. Now I’m on a quest to avenge the murder of my most annoying friend, which takes me to the far reaches of the Reef to tackle an entire army single-handedly. You’re damn right I’m gonna be bringing my very best gear to a challenge like that :) And if, over the course of my adventure, I find a new weapon that’s more effective or fun in new ways, I’ll add it to my loadout. That way, the process at least feels natural from an in-universe perspective.

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And I think we all know that’s the real reason that infusion is so expensive. Most of the new guns simply can’t be as good as the best stuff we’ve already acquired, so Bungie needs to somehow force us into using the new blues and generic legendaries.

In D1 that was absolutely true. How do you top Fatebringer? I don’t think that same thing is true in D2, though. I love my Servive Revolver, but it’s not some untopable power house. That does get muddier when you start talking about IKELOS weapons or Whisper of the Worm. Although, I’ve already found a Kinetic shotgun I love just as much as IKELOS, even if it’s less effective in terms of sheer damage potential.

I do think random rolls help in that regard though. I have a 180rpm energy handcannon that feels great, but with shit perks (hip-fire grip, seriously?), so I’ll be hunting that gun with Outlaw (hopefully—I’m looking forward to the breakdowns of perks and which guns can get which perks).

Regarding bows:

It actually blows my mind how good they feel, and how new they feel, despite mechanically being basically reskinned linear fusion rifle (yes, I know that’s an over-simplification, but c’mon, you still just hold the trigger to charge up a shot).

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I don’t see it as being cut and dry one way or the other. I certainly want to try out some of the new toys that come with each expansion. I take a look at each new drop that I get, if it looks interesting I’ll use it for 10 minutes. 99% if the time, I shard it and go back to what I was using before. I totally appreciate the argument that it’s a new expansion, so play with the new stuff! However, at this point in D2’s lifespan, a weapon needs to stand out in some significant way for me to be excited about using it. Being a player who spends a lot of time in the game, most of the weapons I use are top-tier. Most of the drops I’m getting now are just another average hand cannon or fusion rifle or sidearm... nothing that stands a chance of eclipsing what I’m already using.

We are back at the Age of God-Rolls again. I agree it sucks, but it's definitely worth fiddling around before sharding.

And I think we all know that’s the real reason that infusion is so expensive. Most of the new guns simply can’t be as good as the best stuff we’ve already acquired, so Bungie needs to somehow force us into using the new blues and generic legendaries. Which for me ultimately makes me feel like I’m being de-powered. Even though the numbers on all my new weapons are higher than my old weapons, I feel less effective in combat. Doesn’t that run counter to the entire idea of increasing our light level?

No. You are also running against higher level enemies, so it balances out. Try running your old gear in the new strikes, see how 'much more effective' you really are. ;)

Other than that, I definitely agree with your sentiment. These new weapons, for now, feel kind of meh. Maybe we should give the game more than 5 days of RNG before deciding it all sucks, though.

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Other than that, I definitely agree with your sentiment. These new weapons, for now, feel kind of meh. Maybe we should give the game more than 5 days of RNG before deciding it all sucks, though.

I actually completely disagree. I don’t think any of the year 1 guns are so good that nothing compares. I have found quite a few new guns that I like quite a lot.

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And I think we all know that’s the real reason that infusion is so expensive. Most of the new guns simply can’t be as good as the best stuff we’ve already acquired, so Bungie needs to somehow force us into using the new blues and generic legendaries. Which for me ultimately makes me feel like I’m being de-powered. Even though the numbers on all my new weapons are higher than my old weapons, I feel less effective in combat. Doesn’t that run counter to the entire idea of increasing our light level?

No. You are also running against higher level enemies, so it balances out. Try running your old gear in the new strikes, see how 'much more effective' you really are. ;)

Other than that, I definitely agree with your sentiment. These new weapons, for now, feel kind of meh. Maybe we should give the game more than 5 days of RNG before deciding it all sucks, though.

I actually did that to an extent with the campaign. I did a tiny bit of infusing to get my light level up to about 400, then ran the whole campaign using my EP armor, EP Shotgun, and Whisper (I started with the Winter Wolf as my primary, but swapped it out for the bow once it was given to me). This meant that I was 40 points underleveled by the time I reached the end of the campaign, and it was awesome. It actually felt like I was facing more challenging and dangerous enemies, and it took everything I had to get passed them.
But eventually, you hit a point where you’re so underlevelled that you just can’t keep going without infusing your gear or swapping out for new, higher level gear. But as soon as I do that, the extra challenge is negated and I’m right back to “par” difficulty, only now I’m using weapons I don’t like.

Again, this time around, none of this has really been a problem for me. I had a blast playing through the campaign underlevelled, and I had enough resources to infuse a few favourite pieces of gear up to 500 as I dive into the end game. For me, as a player who sinks loads of time into the game, it feels like a nice balance. I’m just saying that I can sympathize for players who didn’t go into Forsaken with thousands of legendary shards in the bank, and are finding infusion costs a bit steep.

*edit*

Also, I didn’t say that all the new weapons suck :) I just said that I’ve tried almost every drop that I’ve gotten, and so far I don’t like any of them as much as the weapons I already have, with 1 or 2 exceptions.

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I’ve tried almost every drop that I’ve gotten, and so far I don’t like any of them as much as the weapons I already have, with 1 or 2 exceptions.

This has largely been my experience, too. That solar pulse rifle I've gotten a hundred versions of (Right Side of Wrong) has some potential with the right roll, and I love my Thin Line with auto-loading holster. What a great gun to whip out and de-shield a charging Minotaur - it's never disappointingly out of ammo at the wrong moment. :) It's already replaced my old void hand cannon, which I didn't like that much TBH. I also found a Good Bone Structure (which is a Y1 gun, but this one dropped with the new perk structure) with a pretty good roll.

*Side note: What's the scoop on old weapons with new perks, anyway? I thought it was just Vanguard stuff at first, but that thing isn't Vanguard, is it?

But, on the other hand, the stats on Wrong Side of Right are so low that I'm not sure any roll or mod could ever put it on par with Garden Progeny. And I don't care what kinf of solar hand cannon comes along, Bungie can have my Annual Skate with stability masterwork when they pry it from my Guardian's cold, dead hands. That thing is NEVER getting replaced:

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/stabbim/video/60087111

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Have you tried a Go Figure yet? Kinetic pulse rifle. Mine dropped with full auto and Outlaw, and I love it. I also have a kinetic shotgun that I like a whole lot, but can’t recall the name of. It has rangefinder, I think. I also really like the energy hand cannon Trust, although my roll on it is shit.

I’m torn on random rolls. I do like the excitement of checking out new rolls and seeing that variety, but it’s also sort of annoying to get a cool hand cannon and then know there’s got to be a version with Outlaw out there waiting for you.

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Have you tried a Go Figure yet? Kinetic pulse rifle. Mine dropped with full auto and Outlaw, and I love it. I also have a kinetic shotgun that I like a whole lot, but can’t recall the name of. It has rangefinder, I think. I also really like the energy hand cannon Trust, although my roll on it is shit.

I have a Go Figure that I'm keeping around and plan to try. Haven't actually equipped it yet. From the LOOK of the stats and perks, I'd say it's probably the closest thing I've seen to a non-exotic Vigilance Wing, but I'm probably going to want a roll with some kind of reload boost.

Haven't seen Trust at all.

I’m torn on random rolls. I do like the excitement of checking out new rolls and seeing that variety, but it’s also sort of annoying to get a cool hand cannon and then know there’s got to be a version with Outlaw out there waiting for you.

Same. There's no denying that it does result in a certain level of excitement when you find an especially good version of something. But I feel like that only happens because of all the crap versions. It's the same reason the Mustang Cobra R was so amazing in the 90's - because the REST of the American car industry existed. :P

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Remember that sometimes that drop is going to be higher than a version of the weapon you already have and enjoy (and similar to finding one you like better) and 5k glimmer is, relatively speaking, nothing.

For example: while my first Trackless Waste (Kinetic SMG) dropped with Dynamic Sway reduction and Grave Robber. Problem is that the Sunbreaker throwing hammer doesn’t proc Grave Digger. One drops at a slightly lower power but with better perks (Zen Moment and Under Pressure, with Alloy Mag) and a paltry sum of glimmer makes it my new SMG I’m running. Later one dropped at 50 with trash perks and bam, 5k more and now it is at 500.

I’ve had quite a few weapons do that and it does make getting duplicates a much, much better experience.

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That’s not really what infusion is about. Infusion is basically a way of taking your favourite old stuff and keeping it usable. And in a game where it can take a very large amount of playtime to acquire some of these weapons or pieces of armor, I do think it’s a bit of a dick move to make so obscenely expensive to infuse it upward. I put a lot of time, effort, and energy into my masterworked Whisper of the Worm. So obviously, I’d like to be able to use the damn thing. Now, I’m not the average player. I’m able to put more time into Destiny than a lot of other people. So I went into Forsaken with enough resources to infuse a select few favourite weapons up to 500, and I’m glad about that because I’m having a blast. But I do sympathize with players who don’t spend as much time playing as I do, and are looking at the cost of infusion and thinking “WTF?!”.

Find a new crutch! :P

That said, I've been able to infuse about five or six things up to 500 so far by buying Cores from the Spider every day, and all of my other stuff simply by pulling it from the Collections bin and paying the 5k glimmer to infuse (Don't use any MCs until you're at 500!).

As far as Masterwork Cores go, if you only buy three or four a day from Spider, you don't pay so much. Plus, yesterday he was selling almost all of the planetary resources for 1 Legendary shard per stack of 5. Crazy cheap way to stock up on them, and he never once raised the price on those, so infusing gear was a cinch.

Among the normal Masterwork drops and that weird consumable thing that guarantees you a Masterwork Core, I was able to infuse my Right Side of Wrong up to Masterwork 9 before I ran out of cores, so I just have to wait to buy four more from Spider today. It's not a race!

And that said, I found myself running not just a lot of the new weapons (again, RSoW is a monster. It's basically The Messenger from D1 if you use Empowering Rift), but a lot of Blues as well. Not only are the classics still great (Ros Lysis), but I found one SMG that I carried around for almost 100 Light levels. Do blues get random rolls as well? Because this thing ate people alive with almost no recoil...

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(Don't use any MCs until you're at 500!).

Solid advice for anyone still leveling. If you infuse things up before that, you know you're just going to have to infuse it a second time (unless you end up dropping it for something else in the meantime, in which case it was even MORE pointless).

As far as Masterwork Cores go, if you only buy three or four a day from Spider, you don't pay so much. Plus, yesterday he was selling almost all of the planetary resources for 1 Legendary shard per stack of 5. Crazy cheap way to stock up on them, and he never once raised the price on those, so infusing gear was a cinch.

I've been sticking to 1 per day. It'll take me longer to get cores, but I'll be able to afford more in the long run. Planetary mats probably won't be an issue long term, once the flashpoint has had a chance to rotate through all the planets. The problem right now is it hasn't, so I've got 1 or 2 of those stacks with hundreds of items, and all the others have 15 or less.

Among the normal Masterwork drops and that weird consumable thing that guarantees you a Masterwork Core, I was able to infuse my Right Side of Wrong up to Masterwork 9 before I ran out of cores, so I just have to wait to buy four more from Spider today. It's not a race!

I really like that thing, but it'll take some doing for it to unseat Inaugural Address as my go-to solar pulse rifle. We'll see. Am I correct that, despite random perk rolls, everything seems to have a set element now? I knew the collection items were set, but I was under the impression that damage tpyes were still randomized, until I started playing Forsaken. I got 3 arc Misfits and I'm thinking that wasn't a coincidence.

I do like those new consumables - it's nice to have a solid way to work toward MW cores and shards, etc. Though I haven't used the glimmer ones yet because I'm constantly sitting at the cap.

Do blues get random rolls as well? Because this thing ate people alive with almost no recoil...

I don't think so. Pretty sure all my Cuboid ARUs were identical, other than light level.

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Spider almost always has something to burn 25k of glimmer on. I never find myself at the cap anymore.

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For those that have already scavenged Forsaken and found neat tips, tricks and secrets, what all is out there for us to find?

For a lazy dumb dumb like me with minimal available game time, what have you all figured out that I need to do? Where's that secret room? Or that secret chest? Or that part of the mission I ignorantly missed? What are some of these weird consumables in Dreaming City?

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This isn't exactly a secret, but I haven't heard it specifically mentioned much and some people who are interested might not know. Lord of Wolves drops (randomly) from those "wanted" bounties The Spider gives out. If you're interested in getting the gun, make sure to keep picking those up and doing them!

Each one you do also gives a piece of Scatterhorn legendary armor, so it's also potentially useful for leveling and/or trying for certain armor perks. I did enough of them that I started to remember which lost sector names were in which locations, so it was really easy after a while to get a bunch of them done quickly. It's probably the fastest way that I've been able to get multiple legendary drops consistently.

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It’s also a decent way to get Prime Engrams, which can drop from Majors. I’ve gotten a few so far.

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This isn't exactly a secret, but I haven't heard it specifically mentioned much and some people who are interested might not know. Lord of Wolves drops (randomly) from those "wanted" bounties The Spider gives out. If you're interested in getting the gun, make sure to keep picking those up and doing them!

This one may be a side effect of the accidental level reset or something... but those bounties have not refreshed for me, at all. I finished them all last Tuesday, when they first dropped, and haven't seen a new one since then.

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This one may be a side effect of the accidental level reset or something... but those bounties have not refreshed for me, at all. I finished them all last Tuesday, when they first dropped, and haven't seen a new one since then.

Huh. They reset for me, though I must admit half of them are repeats.

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I found grieving to scale rock walls more fruitful then I thought. Got two region chests that way, found a cat and an artifact.

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Are what happens when you use one of the consumables and go to the right places. They (at least the one last week) are very challenging and interesting!

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Ah, so that's what was supposed to happen with that Tincture of whatever? I remember using it, and thinking that an icon on the description looked like a resource chest, so I was expecting it to just give me indicators for chests and/or planetary resources. It didn't, but I kinda forgot I'd used it and never looked into it further.

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Ah, so that's what was supposed to happen with that Tincture of whatever? I remember using it, and thinking that an icon on the description looked like a resource chest, so I was expecting it to just give me indicators for chests and/or planetary resources. It didn't, but I kinda forgot I'd used it and never looked into it further.

Also gives you access to tons of hidden paths in the sky. :)

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Ah, so that's what was supposed to happen with that Tincture of whatever? I remember using it, and thinking that an icon on the description looked like a resource chest, so I was expecting it to just give me indicators for chests and/or planetary resources. It didn't, but I kinda forgot I'd used it and never looked into it further.

Also gives you access to tons of hidden paths in the sky. :)

Are we talking about drugs now? It sounds like we are talking about drugs. Claude, stop telling the kids to do drugs.

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Ah, so that's what was supposed to happen with that Tincture of whatever? I remember using it, and thinking that an icon on the description looked like a resource chest, so I was expecting it to just give me indicators for chests and/or planetary resources. It didn't, but I kinda forgot I'd used it and never looked into it further.

Also gives you access to tons of hidden paths in the sky. :)

Are we talking about drugs now? It sounds like we are talking about drugs. Claude, stop telling the kids to do drugs.

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Yeah, it seems like the Ascendance buff serves a few different purposes. If you need more of the tinctures, or some Level 2 Blind Well things, there are 2 random skulls in the Harbinger's Respite that you can trade Baryon-bush-stuff for.

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