I can't see anything in caves. In D2, the brightness HDR whitepoint setting, which is what you get when you have HDR enabled on the console, presents a white bar where you can barely see only the tricorn on the far right no matter where the slider is positioned. When you press X to apply, it turns dark and you can move the slider to see all three tricorns (what I suspect is the normal view). Nothing I do seems to make the game bright enough. I'm not eager to adjust the TV settings as most everything else viewed on my TV looks fine.

I know some of you have similar TVs. Has anyone else figured out a solution to this? It definitely seems buggy.

[Not really a raid spoiler below]

There's one point where you need to see something in detail. I had difficulty finding an angle where I could see what I needed to, but watching the stream from a teammate later I had no problem.

Kerm

EDIT: I have a LG OLED B7.

I can't see anything in caves. In D2, the brightness HDR whitepoint setting, which is what you get when you have HDR enabled on the console, presents a white bar where you can barely see only the tricorn on the far right no matter where the slider is positioned. When you press X to apply, it turns dark and you can move the slider to see all three tricorns (what I suspect is the normal view). Nothing I do seems to make the game bright enough. I'm not eager to adjust the TV settings as most everything else viewed on my TV looks fine.

I know some of you have similar TVs. Has anyone else figured out a solution to this? It definitely seems buggy.

[Not really a raid spoiler below]

There's one point where you need to see something in detail. I had difficulty finding an angle where I could see what I needed to, but watching the stream from a teammate later I had no problem.

Kerm

I constantly have problems with the black-level settings in D2 on my 4k HDR tv. If I brighten them to the point where I can see properly in caves and other dark spaces, half the dark tones on my screen have a bleached, washed out look (like the contrast on them has been turned all the way down). If I darken the black settings to the point where that unnatural effect goes away and everything looks "right", then the overall picture is way too dark for me to see properly.

I constantly have problems with the black-level settings in D2 on my 4k HDR tv. If I brighten them to the point where I can see properly in caves and other dark spaces, half the dark tones on my screen have a bleached, washed out look (like the contrast on them has been turned all the way down). If I darken the black settings to the point where that unnatural effect goes away and everything looks "right", then the overall picture is way too dark for me to see properly.

I suspect this is some kind of systemic problem. The blacks in Des2ny often seem washed out with a tint to them. Go into cave on Io, and they look purple for example. This doesn't seem to effect everything. I think it's just the game doing shitty color effects in some places.

It happens on both consoles.

If I go into certain caves (Io’s are the worst) the blacks feel like they’re glowing. Everything looks Taken, even when it’s not supposed to. If I fix that, everything else looks bad and way too dark.

I think their HDR implementation just sort of sucks, to be honest.

I can't see anything in caves. In D2, the brightness HDR whitepoint setting, which is what you get when you have HDR enabled on the console, presents a white bar where you can barely see only the tricorn on the far right no matter where the slider is positioned. When you press X to apply, it turns dark and you can move the slider to see all three tricorns (what I suspect is the normal view). Nothing I do seems to make the game bright enough. I'm not eager to adjust the TV settings as most everything else viewed on my TV looks fine.

I know some of you have similar TVs. Has anyone else figured out a solution to this? It definitely seems buggy.

[Not really a raid spoiler below]

There's one point where you need to see something in detail. I had difficulty finding an angle where I could see what I needed to, but watching the stream from a teammate later I had no problem.

Kerm

EDIT: I have a LG OLED B7.

So I'm hearing I'm not the only one who thinks everything is too dark. The brightness adjuster in Destiny seems broken though--what about that?

Bungie?

For me on my HDR TV I didn't really notice this until the pre-Forsaken update, then all of a sudden caves are super dark. With the graphical changes it seems like some lighting got tuned that made it really bad.

For me on my HDR TV I didn't really notice this until the pre-Forsaken update, then all of a sudden caves are super dark. With the graphical changes it seems like some lighting got tuned that made it really bad.

Yeah, this might be new, and I think you might be right. Around that time I remember noticing some weird blotches in dark areas while exiting Failsafe's room.

For me on my HDR TV I didn't really notice this until the pre-Forsaken update, then all of a sudden caves are super dark. With the graphical changes it seems like some lighting got tuned that made it really bad.

Yeah, this might be new, and I think you might be right. Around that time I remember noticing some weird blotches in dark areas while exiting Failsafe's room.

Personally, I’ve been having the issue of my blacks not looking quite right since I got my TV in January, although there definitely was some kind of tweak to the contrast/colour saturation of the game in the 2.0 update.

For me on my HDR TV I didn't really notice this until the pre-Forsaken update, then all of a sudden caves are super dark. With the graphical changes it seems like some lighting got tuned that made it really bad.

Yeah, this might be new, and I think you might be right. Around that time I remember noticing some weird blotches in dark areas while exiting Failsafe's room.

Personally, I’ve been having the issue of my blacks not looking quite right since I got my TV in January, although there definitely was some kind of tweak to the contrast/colour saturation of the game in the 2.0 update.

I’m just here to echo you again.

I’ve had this issue since I got an HDR capable TV. I didn’t really notice any change with 2.0, though.

The graphics engine changes that came along with 2.0 definitely changed how some of the dark areas displayed. Most of the problem areas I've noticed are in older launch-day D1 caves. Places like Rasputin's chamber or anything from Forsaken, though, look fantastic. I have the C7 (same panel as yours), so when I sign on tonight, I'll check let you know if there are any settings that you should be sure to tick. Generally I have things looking pretty good, though, so I bet you can optimize something on your end.

Ping me next time you see me on so we can compare settings.

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I've tried not to be. Been raiding for almost a solid week, and I think I've been online for most of that. I get messages on my phone regardless, FYI.

I haven't been back in dark areas to test everything, but the minor adjustments we made have helped. I definitely had the HDR brightness too low, and your explanation of how the TV saves two sets of settings, one for HDR and one for SDR helped to clarify things for me.

If anyone else has a 2017 LG OLED (B7 or higher) and wants to compare settings, I'll be glad to help.

One more note: I'd cited earlier what I thought was a bug in Destiny's HDR brightness setting. I stupidly didn't realize it was cycling between WHITE point settings and BLACK point settings. Duh! The good news is now that I've adjusted my set I can actually see all three tricorns in the white point settings. All is good.

Now I just to need solder a loose wire on my good headphones, and I'll be in optimal shape. :)

Kerm

I haven't been back in dark areas to test everything, but the minor adjustments we made have helped. I definitely had the HDR brightness too low, and your explanation of how the TV saves two sets of settings, one for HDR and one for SDR helped to clarify things for me.

If anyone else has a 2017 LG OLED (B7 or higher) and wants to compare settings, I'll be glad to help.

One more note: I'd cited earlier what I thought was a bug in Destiny's HDR brightness setting. I stupidly didn't realize it was cycling between WHITE point settings and BLACK point settings. Duh! The good news is now that I've adjusted my set I can actually see all three tricorns in the white point settings. All is good.

Now I just to need solder a loose wire on my good headphones, and I'll be in optimal shape. :)

Kerm

I love a good feel-good story, especially about TV calibration! Now about those headphones...

I love a good feel-good story, especially about TV calibration!

While watching Inception on my 500 dollar (in 2012) non smart 1080p TV with my cousin / neighbor, she commented on how amazing it looked, and wanted to know what I did since it was better than hers. She has a 4K TV…

Dark areas on Nessus still look like a blotchy mess (although I can still see), but Beorn warned me that this might be the case with older content. Hope they fix it.

The jumping puzzle in the raid is now easier, thank goodness!

I love a good feel-good story, especially about TV calibration!

While watching Inception on my 500 dollar (in 2012) non smart 1080p TV with my cousin / neighbor, she commented on how amazing it looked, and wanted to know what I did since it was better than hers. She has a 4K TV…

Where calibration drones come with TVs to automatically calibrate them.

I love a good feel-good story, especially about TV calibration!

While watching Inception on my 500 dollar (in 2012) non smart 1080p TV with my cousin / neighbor, she commented on how amazing it looked, and wanted to know what I did since it was better than hers. She has a 4K TV…

Where calibration drones come with TVs to automatically calibrate them.

I never understood why TVs need calibration?

Why doesn't every digital color value have one and only one corresponding physical value in terms of light wavelength and intensity? So like, a YUV value of XYZ represents light with a wavelength of 480nm with an intensity of how many ever candela. Why don't the digital values have exact defined real world specs?

I love a good feel-good story, especially about TV calibration!

While watching Inception on my 500 dollar (in 2012) non smart 1080p TV with my cousin / neighbor, she commented on how amazing it looked, and wanted to know what I did since it was better than hers. She has a 4K TV…

Where calibration drones come with TVs to automatically calibrate them.

I never understood why TVs need calibration?

Why doesn't every digital color value have one and only one corresponding physical value in terms of light wavelength and intensity? So like, a YUV value of XYZ represents light with a wavelength of 480nm with an intensity of how many ever candela. Why don't the digital values have exact defined real world specs?

Because the display is impacted by the environment in which it is viewed. It's the same reason that iPads now calibrate their displays automatically based on lighting conditions. That technology just hasn't be added to TVs yet I guess.

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Can you elaborate?

A pixel sensor on a camera reads light of X nm and Y intensity.

Why can't the display then show light with X nm and Y intensity?

I know about gamma and shit, but even with that why are in and out not exactly the same?

- No text -

I know about gamma and shit, but even with that why are in and out not exactly the same?

They are, within a certain acceptable range of error. But that doesn’t mean your eye will see it that way. That could change based on the lighting in the room that the television is placed in. That’s literally what calibration is for. You calibrate the screen in the environment it’s in—if the television moves to a different environment, the previous calibration is all but useless.

I know about gamma and shit, but even with that why are in and out not exactly the same?

They are, within a certain acceptable range of error. But that doesn’t mean your eye will see it that way. That could change based on the lighting in the room that the television is placed in. That’s literally what calibration is for. You calibrate the screen in the environment it’s in—if the television moves to a different environment, the previous calibration is all but useless.

Why do projectors need calibrating then? The environment in a theatre is literally he same everywhere: a dark room with a neutral white screen.

I never understood why TVs need calibration?

Why doesn't every digital color value have one and only one corresponding physical value in terms of light wavelength and intensity? So like, a YUV value of XYZ represents light with a wavelength of 480nm with an intensity of how many ever candela. Why don't the digital values have exact defined real world specs?

Can you elaborate?

A pixel sensor on a camera reads light of X nm and Y intensity.

Why can't the display then show light with X nm and Y intensity?

I know about gamma and shit, but even with that why are in and out not exactly the same?

Alright. I'm pulling out of my brains archives here, so... I can't guarantee total accuracy here. I think I can get out enough explanation for at least a push.

For starters, your examples as I interpret them, presume a world with zero entropy. That ever pesky 2nd law of thermodynamics, to say the least. Plus, there are the differences in the type of panel or screen, the array used, and the differences in how these elements are manufactured in a factory.

It does not matter what the signal is, if the elements used to display them can't or won't do it.

You ever wonder why there is a different color gamut for print, then there is for digital? If you didn't know then, I'll tell ya, CYMK is print and RGB is digital. Why? Well - it's based on how we see it. Print is refractive light, so "white" paper gets varying degrees of black ink mixed with colors. RGB is directly light based, light is being pushed straight into our eyeballs. The screens when off are black, and made white by our digital ink... light, which is then parsed into red, green, and blue respectively.

That is where color 'temperature' comes in. How "white" something is. That white value, when it drifts effects how ALL the colors appear. If the base light becomes too cool or too warm, well... even if the signal is pure it doesn't matter.

How does the white value drift? Full circle. Thermodynamics! Yay!

At least... that's what I recall. Take it or leave it. :P

One more thing, I have no idea if this applies to OLEDs as well, as those diodes are pure color, no back light needed. I guess in theory they could... but I don't know.

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OLED's degrade over time. Different colors become less glow-y as a screen ages and even as certain colors are used more than others in different sections of the screen. There's also OLED burn-in where an image can semi-permanently or permanently burn into the screen based on displaying the same image over long periods of time. I recall hearing that blues are more susceptible to degrading than other colors...

How much any of this happens depends on the quality of the screen. Cheap OLED screens can suffer burn-in extremely quickly, while the highest end ones are much more resilient. But again... yep... thermodynamics.

OLED's degrade over time. Different colors become less glow-y as a screen ages and even as certain colors are used more than others in different sections of the screen. There's also OLED burn-in where an image can semi-permanently or permanently burn into the screen based on displaying the same image over long periods of time. I recall hearing that blues are more susceptible to degrading than other colors...

How much any of this happens depends on the quality of the screen. Cheap OLED screens can suffer burn-in extremely quickly, while the highest end ones are much more resilient. But again... yep... thermodynamics.

You're not wrong. One reason I bought an OLED anyway is that I watch very little broadcast or cable TV (which often have logos or chryons always present). I was worried about game HUDs, but I've had very few problems with image retention (and no burn-in--they are two different things) with my screen (I do take precautions). I did have image retention once when I fell asleep with a web page up, and for some reason my Xbox didn't automatically dim like it usually does. My TV has a pixel refresh feature that took care of that problem. My TV is/was one of the best according to the reviewers, but I don't know how much difference there is in the quality of the actual pixels across brands. I think I read that LG manufactures most screens no matter the nameplate. It's the other technology between price points and brands that differs--at least that was my understanding a year ago.

Kerm

P.S. I suspect microLED is the next big thing that will have the advantages of OLED without some of the downsides.