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Director's Cut - Part 2 (Destiny)

by bluerunner @, Music City, Thursday, August 15, 2019, 10:23 (1935 days ago)

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Director's Cut - Part 2

by ManKitten, The Stugotz is strong in me., Thursday, August 15, 2019, 11:09 (1934 days ago) @ bluerunner

The section that discusses Short term goals (a day to a week) Medium goals (weeks) and Long term goals (a season to multiple seasons) intrigues me but also worries me.

As a "committed casual" player, I really enjoy the longer term goals. I can log in a few times a week for my 1 hour of play time each night and gradually work on something, and still receive something awesome at the end. The part that worries me is, where is he getting these time frames? Since they've already mentioned they are going to cater to hardcore players, do those timelines now shift for me as Weeks, Seasons, and Never gonna happen?

I also enjoyed in D1 playing to boost my newly acquired armor and weapons. I liked that a lot better than spending shards and cores to upgrade them. That would be a welcome change (iff'n that is what he was eluding to).

Otherwise, everything I read seemed positive from my PoV and style. Looking forward to the fall.

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The POWER to play ~ A Work in Progress.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Thursday, August 15, 2019, 11:26 (1934 days ago) @ bluerunner

While Director's Cut #1 left me with some troubling concerns (as much as a videogame can anyway), Director's Cut #2 of 3 here has me more pleased then not. This is because, for one thing at least, I don't have to guess anymore.

I'm going to leave my largest post for the inevitable 3rd and final post. I'll put a pretty bow on it.

But when we look to the future, we feel like the Power system may benefit from a rework further down the road. There’s real potential in creating more agency for players, figuring out if Power should be prestigious or not, and taking on the challenge of how to keep players relatively close together Season after Season, while still allowing them to make progress.

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The POWER to play ~ A Work in Progress.

by bluerunner @, Music City, Thursday, August 15, 2019, 11:45 (1934 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

While Director's Cut #1 left me with some troubling concerns (as much as a videogame can anyway), Director's Cut #2 of 3 here has me more pleased then not. This is because, for one thing at least, I don't have to guess anymore.

I'm going to leave my largest post for the inevitable 3rd and final post. I'll put a pretty bow on it.

But when we look to the future, we feel like the Power system may benefit from a rework further down the road. There’s real potential in creating more agency for players, figuring out if Power should be prestigious or not, and taking on the challenge of how to keep players relatively close together Season after Season, while still allowing them to make progress.

I'd be happy if they ditched power altogether and replaced that "prestige" with ornaments or other visible badges rather than just a number. But really my only gripe is the rush to level up to raid. I hate that first week or two of each new release. I feel like I have to drop everything and grind or else I will be a hindrance to my raid team.

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Short answer: Me too.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Thursday, August 15, 2019, 12:10 (1934 days ago) @ bluerunner

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Director's Cut - Part 2

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, August 15, 2019, 12:12 (1934 days ago) @ bluerunner

All of this said, Power in Destiny 2 is still imperfect.

Yes it is. By virtue of the fact it exists at all.

Also… the RPG elements. I can't help but feel this is a fool's errand to try to bring these out. The game just isn't an RPG. It's an MMO FPS. In a real RPG, there are many paths to success beyond shooting. You can customize your character in Deus Ex to win by never firing a shot. But with the goal of the game being 'kill things quickly', there's basically just going to be one set of customizations that is optimal unless the game activities incentivize or allow other types of play. But when the game is built around playing things over and over as efficiently as possible to get gear…

I don't think it's going to work.

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Director's Cut - Part 2

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, August 15, 2019, 13:03 (1934 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I have to disagree with you here.

People are already making pretty diverse builds with the system we have now. Yes, it’s always focused around killing things and that won’t change. But there’s some pretty great builds focusing on different exotics and keeping buffs going.

It’s a good direction for the game to go.

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Director's Cut - Part 2

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, August 17, 2019, 15:22 (1932 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I have to disagree with you here.

People are already making pretty diverse builds with the system we have now. Yes, it’s always focused around killing things and that won’t change. But there’s some pretty great builds focusing on different exotics and keeping buffs going.

It’s a good direction for the game to go.

Given that I’ve been out of the game for nine months, I’ll take your word that the build customization is interesting currently. I’d kind of like to know more.

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Director's Cut - Part 2

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Saturday, August 17, 2019, 16:05 (1932 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I have to disagree with you here.

People are already making pretty diverse builds with the system we have now. Yes, it’s always focused around killing things and that won’t change. But there’s some pretty great builds focusing on different exotics and keeping buffs going.

It’s a good direction for the game to go.


Given that I’ve been out of the game for nine months, I’ll take your word that the build customization is interesting currently. I’d kind of like to know more.

How do you feel about dem Destiny youtubs?

Lion Rampant + Last Word + Orewing's Maul (Chopper Gunner) | Destiny 2 Builds
Bad Juju + Celestial Nighthawk (Juju on that Beak) | Destiny 2 Builds
Bad Juju + Geomag Stabilizers (Curse of Chaos) | Destiny 2 Builds

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Director's Cut - Part 2

by cheapLEY @, Saturday, August 17, 2019, 19:26 (1932 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I guess I don't know what you're expecting.

It's all subtle stuff. At the end of the day you're always going to be shooting stuff while you wait for your abilities to recharge.

I watched a video by True Vanguard last week where he did a middle tree solar Titan with an exotic (I can't recall which one) for Crucible. He said it was still pretty difficult to proc the perks, maybe once per game, but when he got it going, he was just using the hammer throw melee and it would one shot enemy Guardians and instantly recharge his melee, so he could keeping chaining them.

Once per game isn't exactly a super useful build, but it sure looked like a ton of fun.

Even a small example, look at the video Ragashingo posted a while ago. Run the Sixth Coyote chest armor which gives you two dodge charges, then stack your armor with paragon mods (faster class ability recharge), and run top tree Nightstalker. It's damn near infinite invisibility dodges.

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Hi. :)

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, August 18, 2019, 00:15 (1932 days ago) @ cheapLEY

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Hi. :)

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, August 18, 2019, 08:56 (1932 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I don’t use Sixth Coyote because I crutch Knucklehead Radar too much, but I did stack my Crucible armor with Paragon mods because you posted that video. I used to run all Super mods, but always having an invisibility dodge has been far more useful than getting an extra tether in a game.

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Director's Cut - Part 2

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Sunday, August 18, 2019, 10:54 (1931 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I guess I don't know what you're expecting.

It's all subtle stuff. At the end of the day you're always going to be shooting stuff while you wait for your abilities to recharge.

I watched a video by True Vanguard last week where he did a middle tree solar Titan with an exotic (I can't recall which one) for Crucible. He said it was still pretty difficult to proc the perks, maybe once per game, but when he got it going, he was just using the hammer throw melee and it would one shot enemy Guardians and instantly recharge his melee, so he could keeping chaining them.

WORMGOD CARESS
Burning Fists
Melee kills increase melee damage for a period of time. Additional kills extend duration and increase effects.

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Director's Cut - Part 2

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Thursday, August 15, 2019, 13:12 (1934 days ago) @ Cody Miller

All of this said, Power in Destiny 2 is still imperfect.


Yes it is. By virtue of the fact it exists at all.

Also… the RPG elements. I can't help but feel this is a fool's errand to try to bring these out. The game just isn't an RPG. It's an MMO FPS. In a real RPG, there are many paths to success beyond shooting. You can customize your character in Deus Ex to win by never firing a shot. But with the goal of the game being 'kill things quickly', there's basically just going to be one set of customizations that is optimal unless the game activities incentivize or allow other types of play. But when the game is built around playing things over and over as efficiently as possible to get gear…

I don't think it's going to work.

Deus Ex is a poor example to compare with, by virtue of the fact that DE has never professed to be an action game. DE games have generally been story driven, with various avenues of approach to advance the story. To my knowledge, there isn't an activity in all of Destiny that you can complete without firing a shot; short of a couple of patrol types, and seasonal things in social spaces. That is say that there is a specific action-gameplay loop that underpins more or less all of the content. Completely apples and oranges. Destiny has never professed to be a "real" RPG by your subjective definition.

Destiny is an action shooter before anything else that defines it. Bungie has been an action-game company all along. You know this better than many. So stop being a stick in the mud. If you want to challenge yourself; go spec a 100% support Warlock and carry a team through Reckoning without firing a shot. I'm sure it can be done.

It's a meaningful critique to say that the focus of the time spent ingame is being deliberately shifted by design. Or even that the grind-game is being expanded, and the result will likely be more of that same grindy behavior expected of the player base, with longer intervals between feelings of success, because now that players have been playing for years and know what feels good, they've essentially moved the goalposts to make the goals the players have now established for themselves harder to achieve by orders of magnitude.

But claiming a thing is not another thing that it never professed to be is pointless.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that A) Bungie is aware that there's always going to be a meta, and B) they value a range of player choice within said meta; as nobody finds a lack of options desirable in a game they've made into a hobby. I feel like bringing the viability of Ward of Dawn forward is just one example of this.

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Director's Cut - Part 2

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, August 15, 2019, 14:19 (1934 days ago) @ Malagate

But claiming a thing is not another thing that it never professed to be is pointless.

This isn't true at all. For example, it's a completely valid, and in fact very sound critique to say something like "Bioshock Infinite should have been an adventure game".

In my opinion, trying to add these types of RPG elements to an MMO with strong FPS elements is foolish. I mean dude, look at the mods. You don't get 'new' skills and abilities, you just increase the effectiveness of existing ones. That's not interesting.

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Caveat:

by Harmanimus @, Thursday, August 15, 2019, 14:20 (1934 days ago) @ Cody Miller

That’s not interesting to Cody Miller*

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Caveat:

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, August 15, 2019, 14:21 (1934 days ago) @ Harmanimus

That’s not interesting to Cody Miller*

Yes this is true. I think min/maxing is just not a very fun thing to do in a video game.

Over 9000!!! er. I mean... 900!

by CougRon, Auburn, WA, USA, Thursday, August 15, 2019, 13:12 (1934 days ago) @ bluerunner

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