I was waiting for the obligatory “this is just the beginning”, but they learned several new ways to say the same thing, so... progress!

On the flip side, it looks kind of like increased difficulty will just mean more bullet sponge enemies (and more protective modifiers for Champions, which means more sponginess), so they don’t seem to have learned anything on that front...

two cheers.

That dungeon preview sold me. I honestly really thought the dungeon was going to be the obvious thing and end up being a reworked Crota’s End. Glad to see that’s not that case.

I’m really excited to dive in. It all looked awesome.

That dungeon preview sold me. I honestly really thought the dungeon was going to be the obvious thing and end up being a reworked Crota’s End. Glad to see that’s not that case.

I’m really excited to dive in. It all looked awesome.

Yeah, but who is gonna capture the cutscenes for the DBO library?!

You should! They’re leveling everyone up to the current cap of 750, so you’ll just be able to play.

I can do it, but it won't be surround sound. Don't have the equipment for it. ;-(

I can do it, but it won't be surround sound. Don't have the equipment for it. ;-(

Intensity 4K will do 1080p60 with 8 audio channels. I think the card is $199. Never been easier!

...so that I'd have somewhere to install that card. :-\

Related: if anyone has a few thousand bucks just lying around, I'd be happy to take that off your hands. :-P

...so that I'd have somewhere to install that card. :-\

Related: if anyone has a few thousand bucks just lying around, I'd be happy to take that off your hands. :-P

You realize a 2010 or 2012 Mac Pro is perfectly capable of accepting PCI cards right? And depending on how many cores you have you can even do 4K.

two cheers.

Yeah... I cringed at that.

Who is asking for that?

Lots of people, really.

I think it's neat, in it's own way. We'll see how it ends up working, but it's potentially a okay solution for power level. You level up your Artifact just by earning XP. So, potentially it could be a way to get around the soft cap. If you can't (or just don't want to) raid or do nightfalls or whatever, you can just play the game however you want and the XP you earn will still be giving you progress. Hopefully it's actually a decent amount of progress and not just some absurdly small amount.

Lots of people, really.

I think it's neat, in it's own way. We'll see how it ends up working, but it's potentially a okay solution for power level. You level up your Artifact just by earning XP. So, potentially it could be a way to get around the soft cap. If you can't (or just don't want to) raid or do nightfalls or whatever, you can just play the game however you want and the XP you earn will still be giving you progress. Hopefully it's actually a decent amount of progress and not just some absurdly small amount.

Worrying about power level after they raise the cap is the worst part of Destiny for me. The sooner I can put that worry behind me, the sooner I can relax and have fun. If that stressor never goes away, well...maybe Destiny isn't the game for me.

Lots of people, really.

I think it's neat, in it's own way. We'll see how it ends up working, but it's potentially a okay solution for power level. You level up your Artifact just by earning XP. So, potentially it could be a way to get around the soft cap. If you can't (or just don't want to) raid or do nightfalls or whatever, you can just play the game however you want and the XP you earn will still be giving you progress. Hopefully it's actually a decent amount of progress and not just some absurdly small amount.

Worrying about power level after they raise the cap is the worst part of Destiny for me. The sooner I can put that worry behind me, the sooner I can relax and have fun. If that stressor never goes away, well...maybe Destiny isn't the game for me.

Is when I'm no longer worried about the power level and I can focus on the challenges that I find the most fun.

I'm in that place right now precisely because I'm far behind. I hadn't played D2 in months when I picked it up again maybe 2 weeks ago. I'm not even sure exactly how long, but the Black Armory and Menagerie stuff is all new to me. But I'm pretty casual and I'm still high enough to do most of the stuff I actually enjoy, so I'm just playing what I feel like and working toward the Vanguard pinnacle weapons (got 1 already). My power level is surely going up, but because I'm so far off from being current, I'm just not paying much attention to it. Other than trying to get into Menagerie with a group last week, it hasn't really been a factor.

Lots of people, really.

I think it's neat, in it's own way. We'll see how it ends up working, but it's potentially a okay solution for power level. You level up your Artifact just by earning XP. So, potentially it could be a way to get around the soft cap. If you can't (or just don't want to) raid or do nightfalls or whatever, you can just play the game however you want and the XP you earn will still be giving you progress. Hopefully it's actually a decent amount of progress and not just some absurdly small amount.

Worrying about power level after they raise the cap is the worst part of Destiny for me. The sooner I can put that worry behind me, the sooner I can relax and have fun. If that stressor never goes away, well...maybe Destiny isn't the game for me.

Join me. It’s so much better when you’re free.

Or maybe everyone gets boosted to The old Max whenever they raise the power cap.

Your title, "infinite power grind" implies some requirement to keep pushing indefinitely that "power" number. Yet this is not by all accounts the case, no more than it has in anything else in Destiny 2. The lack of a cap simply means, in this public experiment they make, prestige.

Correct me if I'm wrong Kermit, but you don't strike me as someone who cares about E-peen. There may be those whose goal is to get their power level over 9000 to 69420 or whatever, but that's not your goal. Having fun with your fellow Doobers at least, that's the goal. In what has been seen so far (and what I recall seeing) all the hard stuff caps out 850. There may be more, but... you know. We've done this nonsense before.

We got this.

Nah. The power grind can be deeply frustrating, I won’t deny that. The rest of the game is still so fun that the grind is worth enduring, in the increasingly rare case that does become almost unbearably annoying. It is easier than ever to climb that ladder. While that does not necessarily excuse it, it does weigh that equation in such a way that Destiny is a worthwhile experience on its own terms.

I’ve been there. I stopped playing after The Taken King. Completely missed Rise of Iron (except for picking it up shortly before D2 released). While I didn’t necessarily miss playing at the time, and I don’t regret the break, I do feel like I missed a cool time in Destiny. Maybe that in itself is a problem, and it seems they’re really pushing that angle even more now.

For many of us, Destiny isn’t something we wish to be free of.

I spent the last two nights playing Iron Banner with DBO. All we really did was lose spectacularly and bitch about how absolutely broken Crucible is. Anyone listening would have surely wondered why we were even playing. It was still an absolute blast. I can’t wait to do it again tonight. (:

The way it sounded to me was that there will be some very high end challenges you can play at above 900. Imagine putting on a bunch of Nightfall modifiers that push it to 1,200. Before, you’d be stuck at 900. Now, your artifact can keep pushing your Light ever higher so you’ll actually be able to reach significantly above 900 even though your gear tops out at 900.

I do wonder how it will affect Iron Banner.

I'm in that place right now precisely because I'm far behind. I hadn't played D2 in months when I picked it up again maybe 2 weeks ago. I'm not even sure exactly how long, but the Black Armory and Menagerie stuff is all new to me. But I'm pretty casual and I'm still high enough to do most of the stuff I actually enjoy, so I'm just playing what I feel like and working toward the Vanguard pinnacle weapons (got 1 already). My power level is surely going up, but because I'm so far off from being current, I'm just not paying much attention to it. Other than trying to get into Menagerie with a group last week, it hasn't really been a factor.

If raiding weren't my favorite activity, I'd be more cavalier about it. Unfortunately, raiding (and blind raiding) remain the special sauce in Destiny for me.

Actually, it will really bother me to the extent it becomes a factor when raiding. Not doing everything leads to deficits, like right now not having Swarm for the newest raid. I'm naturally enough of a deficit--I hate feeling like I don't meet some requirement that is causing failure.

- No text -

I do wonder how it will affect Iron Banner.

I could be wrong, but I'm GUESSING that there'll be a max light imposed for IB; above that, and you get no additional benefits.

The way it sounded to me was that there will be some very high end challenges you can play at above 900. Imagine putting on a bunch of Nightfall modifiers that push it to 1,200. Before, you’d be stuck at 900. Now, your artifact can keep pushing your Light ever higher so you’ll actually be able to reach significantly above 900 even though your gear tops out at 900.

Yeah. And if that's what it turns out to be too, great! More gameplay options for those who seek more. The HARDEST of the HARDCORE! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

As long as there isn't some "NEED", short the classics (the grind towards the raid :/) then hey, no issue. But if it turns out there is...

BEHOLD!

Thy Quoteth the all knowing wisdome of Wu-Father!

...real life is definitely more important than this stuff.

BEHOLD AND TREMBLE! ALL HAIL THE WU-FATHER!

;P

I do wonder how it will affect Iron Banner.

I could be wrong, but I'm GUESSING that there'll be a max light imposed for IB; above that, and you get no additional benefits.

I’m guessing maybe diminishing returns? Perhaps you can keep grinding as long as you want but the benefit approaches an asymptote.

I do wonder how it will affect Iron Banner.

I could be wrong, but I'm GUESSING that there'll be a max light imposed for IB; above that, and you get no additional benefits.

I’m guessing maybe diminishing returns? Perhaps you can keep grinding as long as you want but the benefit approaches an asymptote.

Your confidence that they'd rather use a complicated math algorithm when figuring out relative benefits than a flat cutoff amuses me. :)

I do wonder how it will affect Iron Banner.

I could be wrong, but I'm GUESSING that there'll be a max light imposed for IB; above that, and you get no additional benefits.

I’m guessing maybe diminishing returns? Perhaps you can keep grinding as long as you want but the benefit approaches an asymptote.

Your confidence that they'd rather use a complicated math algorithm when figuring out relative benefits than a flat cutoff amuses me. :)

Well a cutoff would piss off the people who do infinitely grind, and it appears that’s the player they are trying to cater to!

I do wonder how it will affect Iron Banner.

I could be wrong, but I'm GUESSING that there'll be a max light imposed for IB; above that, and you get no additional benefits.

I’m guessing maybe diminishing returns? Perhaps you can keep grinding as long as you want but the benefit approaches an asymptote.

Your confidence that they'd rather use a complicated math algorithm when figuring out relative benefits than a flat cutoff amuses me. :)

Well a cutoff would piss off the people who do infinitely grind, and it appears that’s the player they are trying to cater to!

Almost everyone, including most of the people who would be in the class to infinitely grind, understands that extra rules generally get imposed in pvp because otherwise the gameplay is unfair. Infinite power only makes sense against pve enemies.

I do wonder how it will affect Iron Banner.

I could be wrong, but I'm GUESSING that there'll be a max light imposed for IB; above that, and you get no additional benefits.

I’m guessing maybe diminishing returns? Perhaps you can keep grinding as long as you want but the benefit approaches an asymptote.

Your confidence that they'd rather use a complicated math algorithm when figuring out relative benefits than a flat cutoff amuses me. :)

Well a cutoff would piss off the people who do infinitely grind, and it appears that’s the player they are trying to cater to!

Almost everyone, including most of the people who would be in the class to infinitely grind, understands that extra rules generally get imposed in pvp because otherwise the gameplay is unfair. Infinite power only makes sense against pve enemies.

I stopped playing D2 for a while a few months ago. I came back the week that the Mars community event was going.

By this point, Bungie had already announced that at the beginning of next season, everything was being raised to 750.

It turns out this was incredibly freeing for me. I didn't need to grind all the Powerful Gear stuff to get more 750 gear in anticipation for the next season. I ended up doing tasks related to exotic quests that I had previously been ignoring in favor of quicker rewards.

I interpret the "infinite power grind" a little differently than you--as completely optional. It helps both the players that play all the time and those that can't play very much.

For the 24/7 players, they will have something to chase. It gets rid of the "I've hit 750, what's the point in even playing now?" But by the end of the next season, all of that goes away and everyone will be on a level playing field again. So there is no downside to skipping out on it.

So those two things lead to my next thought:

Bungie has also said that all future DLC/seasons are a la carte and don't require past content. But what they haven't explicitly said is, does this mean that "everything goes up to max level at the end of the season" keep happening? Personally, I think that would be FANTASTIC. For the 24/7 players, they can still rush to max out their power and they get the prestige of getting there first.

For more casual/less often players, there is no longer a long-term penalty for dropping out of the game, taking a break, whatever. You would be guaranteed to be high enough level to participate regardless of your previous time commitment.

I'm really interested to see where this goes.

Your confidence that they'd rather use a complicated math algorithm when figuring out relative benefits than a flat cutoff amuses me. :)

I was actually thinking the "algorithm" would be applied at the point of grind, rather than in each activity individually. If you make each power level of the artifact above the normal cap take double the EXP to achieve, it very quickly requires insane amounts of time to level up further, and no Iron Banner scaling would realistically be necessary. So it's "infinite" grinding, but at an exponential cost.

My hope is the infinite doohickey is for custom insane nightfalls and that's it. Let me raid without feeling like a total schlub for not being a daily player, and I'm fine.

Honesty, given that Artifact Power does not impact your Gear Power, I would not be in the slightest surprised if IB only cares about Gear Power.

I hope that's not the case. I still envision Artifact Power as a way to allow players to make up the difference if they don't want to do the "Powerful Gear" activities every single week. Just let me play the damn game the way I want, please.

That said, I hadn't considered the distinction. Actual damage dealt cares more about your gun's level than your power level, right? If I'm 750 with a 750 Whisper, it's going to do more damage than if I'm 750 with a 700 Whisper. Unless they completely overhauled the way Power works in general.

Per Director's Cut Part II:

. . . the seasonal artifact can award players a Power bonus, but that bonus is not applied to gear (nor does it increase the Power of future drops), but instead to all of your characters. This way, even if a player doesn’t play the raid, Iron Banner, or the [REDACTED], they can still have a high Power value for the Season.

And I don't think I've heard/read anything has changed about the weighing of gear power for weapons and that your character power level is still what dictates your damage received/ability damage output.

So those two things lead to my next thought:

Bungie has also said that all future DLC/seasons are a la carte and don't require past content. But what they haven't explicitly said is, does this mean that "everything goes up to max level at the end of the season" keep happening? Personally, I think that would be FANTASTIC. For the 24/7 players, they can still rush to max out their power and they get the prestige of getting there first.

For more casual/less often players, there is no longer a long-term penalty for dropping out of the game, taking a break, whatever. You would be guaranteed to be high enough level to participate regardless of your previous time commitment.

I'm really interested to see where this goes.

Bungie is bumping everyone to 750 because of New Light. It will mean that any new kinderguardians will be able to play immediately with their friends. They aren't doing this because of new content. So I think I can confidently answer you question by saying no, they won't keep bumping the LL up of guardians with each DLC. I think it will be status quo after this.

I would tend to agree, but at the beginning of this season they had an hour long quest that bumped you to effectively the previous cap. I can totally see them just making that automatic moving forward. Not that they just bump all gear, but I can see the new season coming with a full set of blue gear at the previous cap so everyone starts on an even playing field and no one has to play catch up to even start the new season.

I would tend to agree, but at the beginning of this season they had an hour long quest that bumped you to effectively the previous cap. I can totally see them just making that automatic moving forward. Not that they just bump all gear, but I can see the new season coming with a full set of blue gear at the previous cap so everyone starts on an even playing field and no one has to play catch up to even start the new season.

Mac--You are right that it is the beginning of New Light. However, they have also said that going forward you can always play the new end-game content right when it comes out, even if you didn't play before.

So what this meant with "old Destiny" was that you had to play through Mars & mercury before you could play Forsaken, for both story reasons and required power level reasons. You couldn't play the base campaign and be power level 300 (or whatever it was) and expect to damage any enemies in Forsaken.

To be more clear: if they continue to bump up the required power level for each season, and you can play any new content without playing old content, there has to be a way to get a brand new player to that starting power level.

So perhaps cheapLEY is right--there will be an easy way to bump up an entire loadout to the required-power-level kit at the start of each season.

I would tend to agree, but at the beginning of this season they had an hour long quest that bumped you to effectively the previous cap. I can totally see them just making that automatic moving forward. Not that they just bump all gear, but I can see the new season coming with a full set of blue gear at the previous cap so everyone starts on an even playing field and no one has to play catch up to even start the new season.

Mac--You are right that it is the beginning of New Light. However, they have also said that going forward you can always play the new end-game content right when it comes out, even if you didn't play before.

So what this meant with "old Destiny" was that you had to play through Mars & mercury before you could play Forsaken, for both story reasons and required power level reasons. You couldn't play the base campaign and be power level 300 (or whatever it was) and expect to damage any enemies in Forsaken.

To be more clear: if they continue to bump up the required power level for each season, and you can play any new content without playing old content, there has to be a way to get a brand new player to that starting power level.

So perhaps cheapLEY is right--there will be an easy way to bump up an entire loadout to the required-power-level kit at the start of each season.

In that regard, I thought they were mostly referring to the fact that non of the seasons were required of each other, like you said, you don't have to play one season before the doing another. They called this basically a la carte. But I still don't recall them ever saying that you light level will be bumped with each season. I could be wrong (I'm more wrong then I like to admit), but that just what I remember.

That is enticing, but I unfortunately can't afford that--at least not for a while. I'm not too trusting of internal CC's either. I'll look into some possibilities for upgrading what I have already.

That is enticing, but I unfortunately can't afford that--at least not for a while. I'm not too trusting of internal CC's either. I'll look into some possibilities for upgrading what I have already.

It CANNOT do 4K60 though. Do not buy it thinking you can capture 4K from your console.

I don't want it to. 4K is the devil.