Is just dumb. Mercifully, I can semi pay attention to IB and catch up on Netflix while I "unlock" the tokens. I refuse to give that idiotic, dare I say, sadistic part of the quest my full attention.

Bungie haven't known what to do with Iron Banner for 5 years. This doesn't even surprise me.

It took me 7 games to get my 15 SMG kills last time, and that was excruciating but at least I could chalk it up to being bad at SMGs. Artificial timegate on these kills is rough though.

Bungie haven't known what to do with Iron Banner for 5 years. This doesn't even surprise me.

It took me 7 games to get my 15 SMG kills last time, and that was excruciating but at least I could chalk it up to being bad at SMGs. Artificial timegate on these kills is rough though.

I remember that one!

I've always been impressed with people good with pre-Recluse SMGs... there was that one I got smoked by it all the time. Antelope maybe?

I love the Dawning, but a real gift would have been not to camp Heavies for all those games!!! Hear that, Lord Saladin?

I've always been impressed with people good with pre-Recluse SMGs... there was that one I got smoked by it all the time. Antelope maybe?

Probably Antiope-D.

An-tee-ohp or an-tie-oh-pee?

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So i'd been seeing a lot of complaints, and honestly it seemed a bit of a strange one. "Annoying, but Heavy drops 3 times per game, surely its not that bad" I thought.

And then I realised. There's one Heavy drop per map, not two like D1. And the entire other team is camping heavy too. And then of course you get stomped by rockets fir a few lives, and they've saved up their super for the next heavy.

I've lost four games now and got 4 rocket kills (let me count the times Ive successfully grabbed heavy only to he immediately Nova Bombed). No one cares about playing the objective. No one cares about anchoring positions. Its just heavy and supers.

Iron Banner is pretty bad to begin with, but this Quest takes the cake. Bungie are going to come back from Christmas to a lot of negative feedback - EDZ Obelisk still busted (locking players out of their seasonal questline), no new loot for Iron Banner, tokens lovked behind this quest, bad quest design (incompatible with gametype)

Why, if I successfully (and of course valiantly) take down an enemy with Heavy ammo, is some random on my team allowed to pick it up and immediately blow himself up with it?

There should at least be a 10 second grace period where only the killer is allowed to grab it before and old randy can take it.

PvP hasn't made me this mad sice D1 Y2 Trials (the "Snipers are the only weapon" meta)

So i'd been seeing a lot of complaints, and honestly it seemed a bit of a strange one. "Annoying, but Heavy drops 3 times per game, surely its not that bad" I thought.

And then I realised. There's one Heavy drop per map, not two like D1. And the entire other team is camping heavy too. And then of course you get stomped by rockets fir a few lives, and they've saved up their super for the next heavy.

I've lost four games now and got 4 rocket kills (let me count the times Ive successfully grabbed heavy only to he immediately Nova Bombed). No one cares about playing the objective. No one cares about anchoring positions. Its just heavy and supers.

Iron Banner is pretty bad to begin with, but this Quest takes the cake.

...that makes it frustrating, because you're not playing your best -- you're trying to focus on getting a rocket, and then a kill (or a double if you're lucky,) rather than playing optimally and helping your team win.

If the step was get two kills, I could see incorporating that into a couple IB games that I'm going to be playing anyway. but ten is just a little too much.

This isn't the first time Bungie has had quest steps like this, and it used to make me sad that I was gimping my team and frustrated that I was progressing so slowly.

Not anymore -- now, I just turn off the sound, turn on Netflix, and go with the flow.

Truth, by the way, was the best RL for this particular step, I found.

Bungie are going to come back from Christmas to a lot of negative feedback - EDZ Obelisk still busted (locking players out of their seasonal questline), no new loot for Iron Banner, tokens lovked behind this quest, bad quest design (incompatible with gametype)

Speaking of negative feedback, there's a thread on Reddit right now with like 1.8k replies that articulates some of the concerns I've had with D2 in recent months, specifically how logging in with a million flashing icons (of things to do) would give me anxiety rather than make me relaxed and enjoy the game.

I've learned to ignore them and focus instead of what makes me happy with Destiny, which is playing with friends.

The Season Pass locking the gear-earning rewards at such high levels has definitely led to me taking the more efficient and less fun approach to playing this holiday.

I've barely touched non-bounty content (I was finally able to do a couple of adventures today under the guise of grinding the Cabal kills bounty) because the game tells me those aren't important. I had more fun doing those (with double 720rpm Auto rifles) than basically anything else today I've done today.

Luckily I'm rank 89 now so I'm almost done. Maybe I'll get to actually play the Sundial now! And finish collecting obelisk weapons. And do the OG perfect paradox quest. And play through Warmind!

I just have to finish my Season Pass homework first...

...that makes it frustrating, because you're not playing your best -- you're trying to focus on getting a rocket, and then a kill (or a double if you're lucky,) rather than playing optimally and helping your team win.

Situations like this always remind me of Chris Butcher's criticism of Gears of War's achievements back in the day. Same exact reasoning. Over-focus on personal achievement which exists tangential to the actual gameplay. I wonder what happened.

If the step was get two kills, I could see incorporating that into a couple IB games that I'm going to be playing anyway. but ten is just a little too much.

This isn't the first time Bungie has had quest steps like this, and it used to make me sad that I was gimping my team and frustrated that I was progressing so slowly.

Not anymore -- now, I just turn off the sound, turn on Netflix, and go with the flow.

They are encouraging people to divest their interest (I think I've used that right), when they should be doing the opposite. These objectives absolutely must align with the normal flow of gameplay.

[snip]

Speaking of negative feedback, there's a thread on Reddit right now with like 1.8k replies that articulates some of the concerns I've had with D2 in recent months, specifically how logging in with a million flashing icons (of things to do) would give me anxiety rather than make me relaxed and enjoy the game.

I still want Evil Otto back.

I've learned to ignore them and focus instead of what makes me happy with Destiny, which is playing with friends.

Same here. There's so much that I love about how the game feels, looks, and sounds (I will forever maintain that the sound design is perpetually underrated); but the thing that keeps me coming back is the people. I'm not sure what drove the change to lock IB engrams behind a quest (probably the permanent nature of mods in armor 2.0), but it absolutely kills my motivation to play Iron Banner. Once I get past the quest, I resent it and want to do something else.

My suggestion would be to rework the IB quests so that they focus on the kind of gameplay Bungie actually wants to encourage. The Iron Banner Control variant is already geared towards a team running together to overwhelm each point and locking down the map, so a Rocket Launcher Kills wicket should be something like "Score 5 kills with a Rocket Launcher while near teammates", or "while The Hunt is On".

Seem to be the vast majority of bounties (and quests) lately, and while I understand that this is fundamentally a game about shooting things, they don't align with any of the other goals of playing cruciblez

Why would I switch to my sidearm and get the guaranteed kill when I need scout rifle kills? Maybe if I'm lucky I can get this close-range scout kill. Oh but I didn't and now I'm dead and frustrated (which is of course a powerful negative feedback loop).

On a map with ling sightlines but you're on the shotgun step? Prepare to have a pretty bad time because all 6 of the opponents are going to be sitting at the back for their scout rifle and handcannon kills.

Why play the objective when I need kills? Standing in the zones is a surefire way of getting teamshot, and the sightlines are no good for those Scout kills.

At least I know where all the opponents will be at the 30, 3:30 and 6:30 marks I guess :/

Edit to add: Actually good Iron Banner quest ideas a

• Capture all three zones as a team
  
• Capture zones with an ally
  
• Assists (boring but actually very important to teach as you get double points (or more) for teamshotting)
  
• Kill enemies attempting to capture your zones
  
• Kill enemies while capturing a zone (should synergise with idea 4)
  
• Generate orbs of light (a little painful in PvP honestly, but still better than the current status quo)

Just play what you want to get stuff for The Dawning and just do Eva’s repeatable bounties. It takes like 6 to level. I’m at 82 and have had significantly limited play time. But I do that.

...that makes it frustrating, because you're not playing your best -- you're trying to focus on getting a rocket, and then a kill (or a double if you're lucky,) rather than playing optimally and helping your team win.

Hmm. Where have I heard this complaint about multiplayer bounties before? :-p

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It's not a new conplaint, but its certainly a more pronounced complaint this season

I've done a but of the Dawning Bounty grind, but its dull as hell. I had to have Netflix on while i did it so I didnt go insane. Which strikes me as defeating the purpose somewhat. I'm not even sure it's faster as such than doing other Bounties (those load times!!!).

I suppose there are a few caveats. I do enjoy the ritual activities. When I’m in patrol I like to hit up Patrol Beacons and hit most Public events I cross. A handful of Crucible matches means 5+ cookies. Insofar as time? Caveat is I’m on PC with Destiny on an M.2 drive.

And it isn’t like I can’t do other bounties while getting the Essence collected. I’ve gone from 82 to 85 just in the small handful of IB games I was able to play so far today. YMMV, of course. But I think it’s pretty easy to mix in with anything else I want to do.

I think my biggest issue is that they’ve shown that they don’t have to tie it to Final Blows for these. My biggest problem in the logic is that IB is inherently a team activity. Similar to Strike Bounties or what not. I would happily accept higher point requirements if they didn’t make the goals internally antagonistic. I remember in some prior season a require For kills across 5-6 archetypes, but your team’s final blows contributed. I completed the sniper kills without touching a Sniper. Obviously it took longer, but it supported team play.

As it stands all the “Get X Kills” parts of the quest steps (and that they only count while on the step) are at least double what is reasonable. Make it take more captures or plain old Defeats, but only force me through 3 Rocket Kills if you want me netting Final Blows.

I suppose there are a few caveats. I do enjoy the ritual activities. When I’m in patrol I like to hit up Patrol Beacons and hit most Public events I cross. A handful of Crucible matches means 5+ cookies. Insofar as time? Caveat is I’m on PC with Destiny on an M.2 drive.

And it isn’t like I can’t do other bounties while getting the Essence collected. I’ve gone from 82 to 85 just in the small handful of IB games I was able to play so far today. YMMV, of course. But I think it’s pretty easy to mix in with anything else I want to do.

It's not difficult, it's just a pain in the ass.

You have to stop every four minutes to switch weapon types to focus on whatever weapons you have bounties for. Then you have to run back to the Tower every twenty minutes to load up on more bounties (or move on to another activity that still has active bounties).

They doubled-down on making it feel lie you're wasting your playtime if you don't focus on very specific activities to work on that season level.

Bounties should absolutely not be the main source of XP for seasonal ranks. It's really silly. XP should just come from doing stuff. It's sort of ridiculous that you can do a Nightfall and get basically nothing, whereas the twenty minutes that activity takes could have been far better spent doing Destination Bounties or something. They just actively encouraging the worst way to play the game.

For a game that wants you to play with friends, they sure sure go out of their way to cause as much annoyance as possible. You either have to forego that valuable XP, or you have to annoy your party by making Tower runs every time you finish an activity.

For a game that they say they want you to play however you want, they sure do insist on railroading you onto a pretty direct path for progression, if you want to make progress in a reasonable time.

So the thing about this perspective that always razzes my berries is that what you present is a request that how you personally would like to invest your time in game should be the most efficient way to gain experience for a seasonal loot track that is available for about 12 weeks. Some folks ran through it in under a week. Some took two or three.

You might feel railroaded to complete this secondary activity in a specific way. It is definitely appropriate to say that you are being guided to certain methods. But Bungie directing you to the Matchmade Ritual Activities and the current Seasonal Event are hardly nefarious. Even having you visit the Tower periodically is far from some devaluation of your time by some game devs.

Forgoing XP to not "annoy your friends" is a conscious decision you are making just as much as not playing with friends to focus on grinding XP would be. Making a choice to play with weapons you regularly wouldn't to get Bounty XP is also choosing how you want to play.

I forego a lot of bounties and play what I feel like playing, to include "low efficiency" activities. With 73 days left in the season I have 11 more ranks to get to hit 100. Personally I think these issues are mole hills, and nothing more. Any magnification of that is chosen perspective.

Sure I could forego doing all that (which I have, in the form of not playing at all), but if I played how I wanted, I would not make it through the seasonal ranks. I know it’s true, because it’s what happened last season.

I’m just not a big fan of being handed a list of chores for my $10, which is what the seasons have been so far this year. The addition of the season rank rewards makes that even more true, because now the pressure is there to get it all done before it goes away (or choke up even more money at the end of the season).

Don’t take that as me hating the game. I love the game. When it’s interesting.

I think the seasonal content model is a failure. I literally don’t think the two seasons we’ve seen this year are worth the development resources to create them. It’s artificial engagement through chores to level up. That’s it. And it bums me out. As okay as I am putting Destiny down (there are other games! Who knew?), it bums me out that I’ve fired up Destiny multiple times this season looking for anything compelling, only to be greeted with “Kill 25 Captains and get 75 Precision Final Blows with a Sniper Rifle.” No thanks.

If it is, that's a special kind of stupid, even by Bungie's standards. As it is, a heavy brick only gets you what, one rocket now, maybe two.

Not gonna lie, I'm really starting to hate Bungie's quests. I get that they want to show us everything, but stuff like this isn't the way to do it.

If it is, that's a special kind of stupid, even by Bungie's standards. As it is, a heavy brick only gets you what, one rocket now, maybe two.

Not gonna lie, I'm really starting to hate Bungie's quests. I get that they want to show us everything, but stuff like this isn't the way to do it.

Yup. All in one single match. And you lose progress if you die.

If it is, that's a special kind of stupid, even by Bungie's standards. As it is, a heavy brick only gets you what, one rocket now, maybe two.

Not gonna lie, I'm really starting to hate Bungie's quests. I get that they want to show us everything, but stuff like this isn't the way to do it.

Yup. All in one single match. And you lose progress if you die.

Wait, for real?

I just assumed people were blowing this way out of proportion. If that’s true, that’s really dumb. All the steps last season were cumulative.

If it is, that's a special kind of stupid, even by Bungie's standards. As it is, a heavy brick only gets you what, one rocket now, maybe two.

Not gonna lie, I'm really starting to hate Bungie's quests. I get that they want to show us everything, but stuff like this isn't the way to do it.

Yup. All in one single match. And you lose progress if you die.

Wait, for real?

Would I give blatantly false information to anyone for my own amusement?

I just assumed people were blowing this way out of proportion. If that’s true, that’s really dumb. All the steps last season were cumulative.

Regardless of whether or not ten rocket kills is a lot to ask, the problem is that if you want to get past a restrictive wall that keeps you from getting armor as drops (which, given how all of the IB weapons are just recycled drops, armor is the only thing worth chasing), you have no choice but to endure the grind. There are zero workarounds (and the game will only start tracking your rocket kills when you get to that step).

And as a guy who rarely touches Heavy, having to change my playstyle to include "camp around Heavy Spawn and hope we win it, then hope I get a kill, then repeat the process successfully at least nine more times", on top of having to equip a Rocket Launcher (which I suck with), just to eventually progress a single half step of the quest?

It's poop.

And if you want to run a second character in IB? RIP

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I just realised they tricked me into buying a cosmetic microtransaction in the form of season-specific armor. Shit.

Also can you farm godroll weapons from the Obelisks without paying for the season pass? Is this P2W? Uh oh.

That said, I finally hit 92 and get to play the game I like. Ive been mopping up adventures (they're pretty cool!) and World Quests (they unlock exotics?! Neat!). I even got to play some Sundial (the real reason I bought the pass) and got an awesome roll on Traveler's Judgement 5 (Rapid hit/TtT).

This game is weird.

I think the seasonal content model is a failure. I literally don’t think the two seasons we’ve seen this year are worth the development resources to create them. It’s artificial engagement through chores to level up . . .

Saying it is not for yourself, sure, that's fine. Suggesting it is a failure is questionable at best. The game is still lively and active. Engaging with the current content is easy and quick. People are running around with Sundial and Dawning stuff on.

It’s a failure at providing worthwhile content. I’m sure it’s making Bungie boatloads of money. That’s not how I measure success, even if they do.

Last season was masked by accompanying a pretty good, content-rich expansion. This season doesn’t have that luxury, Andy it shows just how thin it is.

Again, more power to the folks that like it. I’ll jump back in when they put out something worthwhile. Some bounties wrapped around the Obelisks ain’t that, though. Hopefully we get a good expansion again this fall.

And being reductive that it's "some obelisks with bounties" only presents it as if you didn't actually participate in the Season or what is on offer.

Are we destined to have this conversation endlessly? Of course it’s subjective. Pointing that out is asinine.

I haven’t participated in the season since week two. That’s the other problem with the seasonal mode of content. Is there good stuff? I surely don’t know because I quit playing because they thought making me grind out idiotic bounties and one mediocre activity would keep me occupied for more than like two hours.