Just got the notification. It's in the mail on the way.

Are we looking at the third masterpiece of 2020? Let's find out.

Fuck that game, Nintendo just announced a new Pokémon Snap!

Just got the notification. It's in the mail on the way.

Are we looking at the third masterpiece of 2020? Let's find out.

It’s really strange, considering how much I absolutely love the first game, but I just can’t drum up an ounce of excitement for TLoU 2. I’m sure it will be a superb game, and yet I just don’t care. Maybe it’s just too late? The first game sits in such a special place in my memory, but it’s long enough ago that it feels... complete. I don’t need or even want more. I hope it’s great and that people love it, but for whatever reason, the series is complete in my mind and I don’t want it to continue.

I also think that many people may just not be in the mood for a sad, apocalyptic, anti-humanity story right now? Some reviews I have read have borne this out. Also interesting, most of the big review sites who do scoring are scoring it very highly, but if I were to (subjectively, obv.) assign a score to reviews that don't contain one they would be much lower than the average of the scored reviews.

I am finally truly regretting my decision to not buy a Switch when I last had the opportunity

I also think that many people may just not be in the mood for a sad, apocalyptic, anti-humanity story right now? Some reviews I have read have borne this out. Also interesting, most of the big review sites who do scoring are scoring it very highly, but if I were to (subjectively, obv.) assign a score to reviews that don't contain one they would be much lower than the average of the scored reviews.

One stipulation with regard to the embargo was that reviewers were not allowed to talk about the last 12 hours of the game at all. So I'm not sure what kind of review you can write if you can't evaluate the whole game.

I have not heard anything at all about the game. I've not watched anything or read anything revealing any of the content. So I'll go into it with an open mind.

Just got the notification. It's in the mail on the way.

Are we looking at the third masterpiece of 2020? Let's find out.

It’s really strange, considering how much I absolutely love the first game, but I just can’t drum up an ounce of excitement for TLoU 2. I’m sure it will be a superb game, and yet I just don’t care. Maybe it’s just too late? The first game sits in such a special place in my memory, but it’s long enough ago that it feels... complete. I don’t need or even want more. I hope it’s great and that people love it, but for whatever reason, the series is complete in my mind and I don’t want it to continue.

I was just mentioning to my brother yesterday that it's really weird to think about how the followup to one of my absolute favorite experiences ever launches in just a few days, and while I preordered the Deluxe edition, and have had TLoU themes on my PS4 for the past year, I have zero hype or excitement.

A big part of that, I feel, is that I never wanted a followup to Joel and Ellie's story. The first one ended so perfectly, that a continuation kills the masterful closing moments of the game.
I know I'll probably love it in the end (and I seem to be one of the only people who loved the gameplay and mechanics of the first, so it's definitely my type of game), but that sense of dread lingers. I've heard some really great stuff about the game from non-numerical reviewers, so the quality isn't what's concerning me, but yeh. Didn't need a sequel.

Didn't need a sequel.

Not in the least. Anything after kind of just feels like fan fiction. It's like reading what happens after George kills Lenny.

Just got the notification. It's in the mail on the way.

Are we looking at the third masterpiece of 2020? Let's find out.

It’s really strange, considering how much I absolutely love the first game, but I just can’t drum up an ounce of excitement for TLoU 2. I’m sure it will be a superb game, and yet I just don’t care. Maybe it’s just too late? The first game sits in such a special place in my memory, but it’s long enough ago that it feels... complete. I don’t need or even want more. I hope it’s great and that people love it, but for whatever reason, the series is complete in my mind and I don’t want it to continue.

I honestly have no interest in seeing what they do afterwards...

I’m eager to play it, but I don’t think I’m excited for it like I normally would be. I’m expecting to be great and I fully expect to love it, but I also feel like I don’t need a continuation of that story.

I also agree with every reply so far. I'm savoring the moment.

Of course I bought it. Of course I'll play it. But I'm savoring the last few days I have when I can view the first game as a complete whole--perfect and undistorted by the inevitable revelations that will change its meaning.

I played for an hour. Now I’m excited again. Really fighting the urge to stay up and continue playing. Naughty Dog is so good at writing characters. Little moments are so well done. Laura Bailey is already knocking it out of the park as Ellie.

On a technical level it’s as good as I’ve come to expect Naughty Dog to be. That snow tech! I brushed by a pine tree and all the snow collapsed off of the branches. They’re so good at the details in a way not many other studios are.

I have a three day weekend after tomorrow, and it’s a good thing I didn’t have any plans to cancel to play this the entire time.

I played for an hour. Now I’m excited again. Really fighting the urge to stay up and continue playing.

Yeah, we had to put the game down at 4am because of work. Despite the ever-lingering sense of dread, there's just no beating Naughty Dog at creating a story that pulls you forward towards the next story beat.

Naughty Dog is so good at writing characters. Little moments are so well done. Laura Bailey is already knocking it out of the park as Ellie.

As Abby (not sure why Naughty Dog considers her name a spoiler, but whatever), you mean? Absolutely. That's the thing about Laura Bailey: They give her such BOOOOOOORING characters to play 99% of the time. But Naughty Dog clearly recognized talent when they cast her as Nadine in Uncharted 4, and they continue to give her acting some reach here. Just the things she does and the way you can somewhat understand why (the way her friends are the ragtag bunch of misfits of another tale that we'd probably be all-in for in any other scenario).
And JESUS, CAN SHE BRAWL. Slamming an infected on the ground before jumping on their head? Hoo boy...

On a technical level it’s as good as I’ve come to expect Naughty Dog to be. That snow tech! I brushed by a pine tree and all the snow collapsed off of the branches. They’re so good at the details in a way not many other studios are.

That horse ride into Seattle was crazy good. On a technical level I'm blown away by what they can demand from a base PS4 performance-wise. And I haven't heard my Pro scream like it was since God of War (even Death Stranding usually only causes my PS4 to make a... Low Roar).
And even though we only went through the one major setpiece (Abby running from the horde of infected), the game filled us with more "Holy Crap" heart-pumping moments in five minutes than any other game has been able to in recent memory - And then what happens next...

I have a three day weekend after tomorrow, and it’s a good thing I didn’t have any plans to cancel to play this the entire time.

And to think Sammy's already caught up to us on Dying Light. :P
Yeah, we were just going to play for an hour or so, however long we thought the prologue would be... but man, four hours flew by so quick. I'm almost bummed that I made plans for Sunday.

As Abby (not sure why Naughty Dog considers her name a spoiler, but whatever), you mean? Absolutely. That's the thing about Laura Bailey: They give her such BOOOOOOORING characters to play 99% of the time. But Naughty Dog clearly recognized talent when they cast her as Nadine in Uncharted 4, and they continue to give her acting some reach here. Just the things she does and the way you can somewhat understand why (the way her friends are the ragtag bunch of misfits of another tale that we'd probably be all-in for in any other scenario).

No, I meant Ellie, I just got the actor names mixed up. I haven’t really seen enough Abby to judge, I just finished her first segment and stopped. The snowball fight is what really impressed me with Ellie. The writing is really natural and the delivery of everything there was perfect. It was all very real and believable. I find myself being really impressed by the small stuff like that.

And JESUS, CAN SHE BRAWL. Slamming an infected on the ground before jumping on their head? Hoo boy...

Yeah, all the reviews have talked about the brutality of the game. I’ve only fought a few runners, but you can already see it. I do like the hand to hand in the game. Nothing very complex, but it feels good and tense. You playing on Hard or Survivor? I’m in Survivor, but I bumped my health down to hard. The difficulty customization in this game is really neat.

And to think Sammy's already caught up to us on Dying Light. :P

I’m totally in for Dying Light . . . next week sometime. (:

Yeah, we were just going to play for an hour or so, however long we thought the prologue would be... but man, four hours flew by so quick. I'm almost bummed that I made plans for Sunday.

I forgot that I also do have plans Sunday afternoon. I washed to keep playing last night but forced myself to quit.

I’m way too early to really say it definitively, but it’s a masterpiece. Even if the ending totally blows it, the game is incredible. The combat encounters are great and tense. Earlier today I threw a glass bottle to attract clickers to go after a group of humans that were searching for me. Not wildly impressive, but it felt amazing. It also feels way more feasible to just sneak by encounters without fighting than it was in the first game.

I know lots are angry about aspects of the story, but I’m loving it so far.

Can't play darts.

Or Jak and Daxter.

Or Jak and Daxter.

I tried that, too. I guess doing that in Uncharted was enough.

I’m way too early to really say it definitively, but it’s a masterpiece.

I think you were right about it being too early.

20 hours in, and the game is unraveling for me. I'm not going to totally judge to till the end, but so far it appears we have the cowardly moral relativism of Bioshock Infinite, and a story that is actually quite anti-woman (or more specifically, a rejection of the feminine).

Maybe this will turn around by the end? I don't know what to expect.

I read all the spoilers during the leak last month. I know generally what happens.

I’m still in the first half of the game (Day 3).

It’s story is working for me. It’s sort of doing the Spec Ops/Bioshock thing, but I think it’s much more effective, if only because this game is actually fun to play. The violence of the game is cathartic in a really fucked up way. And the revenge plot helps—I want to kill the bastards that killed Joel as much as Ellie does. In Bioshock or Spec Ops, I was just doing what the game told me to do, I didn’t have any personal stake in what was happening. In this, Ellie’s motivations are also my motivations. The self reflection the game (I assume) is going to ask of me is much more powerful because of that.

I'd be super-interested in final reviews from all of you.

After all of the drama around this game, all the reactions, the mistrust of gaming-journalism and Critics reviews, of user review bombing, and all the rest...

It's hard to know what to believe.

Tell me what to believe. ;)

I will let you know in a few days.

I can say the gameplay is top notch. It is among the best stealth action games ever. The level and encounter design puts nearly everything I’ve ever played to shame.

The acting and animation and everything that goes into making these characters real is the best I’ve ever seen, period. I quite like the story so far, but I haven’t reached the end yet. I can’t imagine an ending terrible enough to make this journey not worth experiencing though.

The reaction to this game is so much like the reaction to The Last Jedi in just about every regard.

Ok random thing but it's pretty funny.

The actress for Dina did a playthrough of the original last of us. She just flat out burns Abby's dad with the flamethrower lol. (26:45 if it doesn't go there automatically).

I know you don't give a damn about spoilers, and I know the first trailer from two years ago hinted at revenge being a theme, but please don't let this be the start of you posting evocative titles. The game has been out four days. I'd like to keep coming here until I finish it.

Just don't reveal what's under the spoiler tag.

- No text -

Contempt for the feminine is a staple of the patriarchal culture. For a game about women, staring women, and featuring so many women, I’m staggered nobody has mentioned the The Last of Us 2’s constant punishing of anything feminine.

Does Naughty Dog actually think many women can relate to Abby and Ellie, two hyper masculine women who perpetrate some of the most hideous violence I’ve ever seen in a game?

This seems like yet another line of ‘strong’ female characters. Leads who are accepted by essentially becoming men. Where ‘strength’ is taken literally instead of as willpower or spirit. It’s a tacit acknowledgment of the weakness of the feminine. Yes, it’s the apocalypse, and yes it makes sense for Ellie and Abby to be physically strong, but every display of femininity in this game is punished or framed as weak. The problem isn’t that some women are masculine. The problem is that the story doesn’t let any women be feminine.

Not a single woman is ever shown wearing anything feminine such as a dress, even at the town’s dance where it would be appropriate. Ellie wears jeans, flannel, and high tops, much like nearly every woman you see. Even when things are safe, when society is more or less functioning, displays of femininity are absent.

While the women who exhibit feminine qualities are all pushed out of the story and punished, the characters with story agency, Abby and Ellie, lack almost any feminine qualities. Ellie is vicious, tempered, violent, physically strong and good with weapons. We see in flashbacks she’s into traditionally masculine interests such as rocket ships and dinosaurs. Even her sexual preferences are masculine, in that she likes women. At home, Dina does the dishes and laundry while Ellie hunts and herds sheep. She comes on to Dina repeatedly with a traditionally masculine libido before being shooed away. It’s quite clear who’s the ‘man’ and who’s the ‘woman’ in the relationship.

Abby is so unrecognizable as a woman, many people online have asked if she is supposed to be trans. Her sex scene with Owen is blocked and framed as if it were two men. Both women drive the story and solve problems almost exclusively through violence and physical prowess. Never their insight, their instinct, their sensitivity. Always their rage. Abby’s care of Yara and Lev is meant to echo Joel’s care for Ellie. A traditional masculine protector.

The women who exhibit femininity are punished in a horrible fashion. While male characters like Jessie and Owen die quickly with little fanfare, Dina, Mel and Yara are subjected to torturous violence. Dina immediately becomes sick while pregnant, explicitly equating femininity with literal weakness. Ellie scolds her for being a burden, before she is eventually shoved out of the story with no agency, but not before being savagely beaten, her head being brutally slammed into the ground repeatedly.

Mel is a doctor, a healer, potential mother, and yet her fate is to be brutally murdered, her death only useful as a plot device for the masculine leads.

Yara suffers a particularly brutal and savage beating, rendering her arm so useless it must be amputated, and ends up with her body riddled with bullets.

Because of the targeting, it becomes hideous. None of these characters have story agency, and the violence against them is more gruesome than the others. And all are horribly punished by the narrative. Not a single feminine quality is shown to be rewarded at all in this story. Nothing.

The game couldn’t be clearer. This is a man's world.

Last of Us 2 lacks any moral conviction at all in its themes. I’m not even sure the game is coherent in ANY of its theming. Is violence bad? Then why is it so awesome? So visceral and cathartic? So necessary? Is revenge bad? Then why did it work out pretty well for Abby?

In this day and age, when the President says there are ‘good people’ on both sides of the white supremacy issue, the idea of a game falling back on this very notion is irresponsible and lazy. “You’re a good person Abby”. No she’s not. So why does the game force us to sympathize with her? What genuinely is the larger aim here with this? What is the game actually saying here? It it actually standing for anything? Because it commits to nothing. What is this game about?

The power of forgiveness? What did Ellie gain through this act? What was wrong with seeking revenge? Where was the actual self reflection? Was it killing Mel? No… she never seems to think about it again. At the end, only Joel flashes before her as she decides to let Abby live. And yet in forgiveness she loses everything. She loses her vengeance, and she loses her family. She is worse off than if she’d gone through with it. What motivated her to change her mind? Seriously. In the story as shown, I cannot point to a reason why Ellie’s character at that moment would let her go.

What do your characters want, and what do they need? Why did Ellie need to let Abby go? I have genuinely no idea.

The game was absolutely too long. While the stealth mechanics can make for some tense moments, everything about the game felt recycled. Similar combat scenarios. Similar weapons. Animations lifted straight form the first game and from uncharted. These absolutely gorgeous environments were ruined with a game that felt repetitive. The novelty sections like going after Tommy when he’s sniping you were great. Making your way through the island when two sides were at war was great (although Metal Gear Solid 4 pulled this trick almost 15 years ago). I was not really having ‘fun’ for a large portion of this game. The conceit here is roughly 13 years old; the game still exhibits the same DNA that made Uncharted great. The formula is stating to wear thin.

I was willing to be taken along on the story. I don’t have a problem per se with Joel being killed and Ellie out for revenge, but it’s in how you handle it. It’s in having a solid theme, that weaves into the character’s psychology. It’s about a story that asks the right questions, and hit you in the gut with the answer like the first game did.

Last of Us 2 is this decade’s Bioshock Infinite. An impressive facade with a cowardly lack of moral conviction masquerading as depth.

I think it's fairly obvious that I'm not a very critical media consumer--I tend to just get absorbed in stories, and I don't give it much more thought than "Did I enjoy that?"

The answer for The Last of Us Part II is absolutely "Yes!"

I think this game was fantastic, and I think it was a worthy follow up to the first game, which ranks among my favorites of all time.

The presentation of everything is exactly what you'd expect from Naughty Dog. It's a master class in nearly every regard, from the visuals to the voice acting, the animation, etc. I think that mostly goes without saying from this studio, but they still managed to impress me every step of the way. I want to give particular shoutouts to the voice cast. Everyone absolutely killed it, all the way down to the random enemy barks. Just phenomenal.

I won't comment on the story, so as to avoid spoilers. I'll only say that I enjoyed it. I cried several times (not that that's the indication of a good story--I'm pretty easy to get in that regard with good manipulative presentation). I think it's a good follow up to the first game, and it settles some long standing debates about the first in some ways.

The gameplay, though, is where the game truly shines for me. I really liked the gameplay in the first game. I think it's far better than a lot of people give it credit for. Part 2 takes the same formula and really expands it. I don't want to oversell it, it's still that same gameplay, but everything just feels so much better. I think most of that boils down to the arena design. Most of them are incredibly large, with pathways between sections absolutely everywhere. Getting spotted, repositioning and laying traps, luring the enemies in and scampering away through a hole in the wall . . . it's just so good. There's also a lot more set piece moments than I remember being in the first game, but it has been a few years since I've played it, so maybe that's not true.

I can't think of much else to say without getting into spoilers. I think it was fantastic. I'll be interested to hear what the rest of you think of it.

The gameplay, though, is where the game truly shines for me. I really liked the gameplay in the first game. I think it's far better than a lot of people give it credit for. Part 2 takes the same formula and really expands it. I don't want to oversell it, it's still that same gameplay, but everything just feels so much better. I think most of that boils down to the arena design. Most of them are incredibly large, with pathways between sections absolutely everywhere. Getting spotted, repositioning and laying traps, luring the enemies in and scampering away through a hole in the wall . . . it's just so good. There's also a lot more set piece moments than I remember being in the first game, but it has been a few years since I've played it, so maybe that's not true.

Perhaps it's because I played on normal and not the harder difficulties, but traps rarely seemed to be a good option. The best option always just seemed to sneak through the encounter and engage nobody. Maybe do some silent takedowns on your way. Between being able to crawl and having the listening mode this was viable in almost every encounter. If there wasn't a stuck door or some other slowly movable obstacle blocking the way, sometimes just running was enough.

That way you will be well stocked for the mandatory combat the game sometimes throws at you.

I saw that the difficulty was quite customizable, with settings for each individual aspect of the game rather than a blanket difficulty changing everything. This is so cool.

Just a random collection of thoughts, here.

Let's start with the obvious--I think Abby is brilliant. It's probably the most divisive aspect of this game. I think it totally works. The presentation of her story was great.

I also love the pacing of the game. I have seen lots of comments wishing that they had flipped perspectives every day, so you play Day 1 as both characters, then Day 2. I'm glad they didn't. The game works much better as it is--play all the way through as Ellie, sharing her desire for revenge, wreaking havoc to get that revenge at any cost. Only afterwards do you get to see the other side, and get the humanization of the people you've been killing. The only thing I would have changed is to cut Abby's section from the prologue, so you only play as Ellie and then stumble upon Joel's murder as confused as Ellie is. Then, after Ellie's Day 3, go all the way back to the prologue as Abby. I'm not sure why they did it they way the did. It feels sort of at odds with what they seemingly were trying to accomplish with the perspective shift in the rest of the game.

I'm also a little surprised that Abby's 3 days didn't intertwine with Ellie's more. I sort of assumed that we would see (or hear about) all of her friends' murders, and Abby either trying to find Ellie or possibly trying to hide. As it is, Abby really only learns about it at the end. Which is fine, I found what she was doing pretty compelling.

I really liked the brief open-world segment in Ellie's Day 1. I think it worked well for what it was. I sort of wish the entire game had been like that--I can imagine having a decent chunk of the city to explore, trying to find Abby's friend's one by one. On the other hand, that might be a little too video gamey for way the story is handled. I'm not sure you could make that work and make it feel as good as a set progression. It was fun segment, though.

I think Abby's gameplay segments were without a doubt the stronger sections. Getting stuck in that room while Yara and Lev tried to find a way out was an incredible experience. Finding the way down the skyscraper before the hospital was likewise terrifying. That whole area was wonderfully designed. Fuck Stalkers and the infected stuck on the walls. The hospital itself and the Rat King was just . . . god. I only have so many ways to say amazing. I also liked the entire island segment. I was honestly a little surprised at how "big" they went with the set pieces. I don't really remember anything like it in the first game.

I also really loved all of the flashback segments. It gave me much needed Joel and Ellie time. The museum segment was a real standout, but I think they were all fantastic. I liked Abby's, too!

The thing I'm conflicted on is the ending. The last few hours of the game, every time the screen went to black I though it was going to be over. Part of me has a hard time believing that Ellie would leave Dina to go find Abby at that point. I think they did an okay job selling that she needed the closure somehow, that it was still eating at her, but she also seemed so happy there with Dina and JJ.

That final segment in California was great, though. I loved that area from a gameplay perspective. It was just a fun play space to go through.

The fight against Ellie in the theater was dumb. I can see the appeal of it on paper, but it wasn't fun, and it felt really silly and video gamey in a way that actually ruined the tension of that moment.

Likewise, the fight against Abby at the very end was not great. It wasn't awful, but Naughty Dog have a bad habit of making those set one on one fights go on for entirely too long. That needed to be fifteen seconds, not a two minute fight with three phases.

I do like that Ellie ultimately let her go. I'm mixed on how to feel if it would have been better if she had just stayed on the farmhouse and not gone at all, though, just let it all go right there. But there is something to be said for driving the point home by having her return to an empty house, missing fingers and unable to play the guitar.

I do like that Ellie ultimately let her go. I'm mixed on how to feel if it would have been better if she had just stayed on the farmhouse and not gone at all, though, just let it all go right there. But there is something to be said for driving the point home by having her return to an empty house, missing fingers and unable to play the guitar.

Which is why the theming makes no sense. Abby gets to sail away and live on Catalina with Lev happily ever after. What exactly did her revenge cost her? As shown in her sections, her 'friends' didn't even really seem to like her that much.

I'm not opposed to Ellie letting her go in the end… but how did Ellie come to that decision? She knows next to nothing about Abby. If she knew Joel Killed Abby's dad, perhaps the reflection of losing her own father figure would cause her to change her mind. But Ellie doesn't know this. I'm not understanding the emotional chain of events leading to this decision.

The gameplay, though, is where the game truly shines for me. I really liked the gameplay in the first game. I think it's far better than a lot of people give it credit for. Part 2 takes the same formula and really expands it. I don't want to oversell it, it's still that same gameplay, but everything just feels so much better. I think most of that boils down to the arena design. Most of them are incredibly large, with pathways between sections absolutely everywhere. Getting spotted, repositioning and laying traps, luring the enemies in and scampering away through a hole in the wall . . . it's just so good. There's also a lot more set piece moments than I remember being in the first game, but it has been a few years since I've played it, so maybe that's not true.

Perhaps it's because I played on normal and not the harder difficulties, but traps rarely seemed to be a good option. The best option always just seemed to sneak through the encounter and engage nobody. Maybe do some silent takedowns on your way. Between being able to crawl and having the listening mode this was viable in almost every encounter. If there wasn't a stuck door or some other slowly movable obstacle blocking the way, sometimes just running was enough.

I did that a fair bit, too, and I love that it's a legitimate option. I ran through most of Hillcrest (fuck those dogs). I loved the way that played, out, too. In most games, after you drop to the second tier, the enemies above wouldn't be a problem, the game would reset to it's neutral state, but that didn't happen, so I ended up having to book it through all three tiers with enemies on my heels.

I found traps to be pretty useful when I got caught. I'd lay a trap, then leave through a whole in the wall while the explosion and death of their buddy made everyone focus on the wrong building, so I could then either kill them or just leave the area.

That way you will be well stocked for the mandatory combat the game sometimes throws at you.

I saw that the difficulty was quite customizable, with settings for each individual aspect of the game rather than a blanket difficulty changing everything. This is so cool.

It's fantastic. I played with everything on Survivor except I set the scavenging down to Hard (and then to Moderate at one point). The Rat King encounter made me reload a previous checkpoint and drop the scavenging setting to moderate, because I was out of nearly everything, and I could not figure out a way to kill that bastard.

I do like that Ellie ultimately let her go. I'm mixed on how to feel if it would have been better if she had just stayed on the farmhouse and not gone at all, though, just let it all go right there. But there is something to be said for driving the point home by having her return to an empty house, missing fingers and unable to play the guitar.

Which is why the theming makes no sense. Abby gets to sail away and live on Catalina with Lev happily ever after. What exactly did her revenge cost her? As shown in her sections, her 'friends' didn't even really seem to like her that much.

I didn't get that impression. Mel hated her for obvious reasons, but I loved her relationship with Manny (wish we saw more of it).

It's fantastic. I played with everything on Survivor except I set the scavenging down to Hard (and then to Moderate at one point). The Rat King encounter made me reload a previous checkpoint and drop the scavenging setting to moderate, because I was out of nearly everything, and I could not figure out a way to kill that bastard.

I think I threw 3 pipe bombs at him, emptied the shotgun, then a single rifle shot.

It's fantastic. I played with everything on Survivor except I set the scavenging down to Hard (and then to Moderate at one point). The Rat King encounter made me reload a previous checkpoint and drop the scavenging setting to moderate, because I was out of nearly everything, and I could not figure out a way to kill that bastard.

I think I threw 3 pipe bombs at him, emptied the shotgun, then a single rifle shot.

I didn’t have any pipe bombs, only had three shotgun rounds, and a few of every other ammunition type. On Survivor, mind you. Then once he was dead, I’d have had to deal with the thing that pulled out of him.

It’s a small thing, but I’m really freaking impressed with the guitar. Best use of the touchpad ever.

It’s a small thing, but I’m really freaking impressed with the guitar. Best use of the touchpad ever.

And guess what? She can't really play Joel's song anymore after Abby bites off her fingers.

You mean Pearl Jam’s song. Which was released a full two weeks after Outbreak Day.

You mean Pearl Jam’s song. Which was released a full two weeks after Outbreak Day.

If the infection is caused by a fungus, I never understood why someone who's bitten doesn't just take an antifungal drug and call it a day.

I keep seeing people saying the game is "bad writing". Folks are even trying to dethrone D.B. Weiss and David Benioff as the first thing you see when you google "Bad Writers".

I dunno, it seems like most of the actual criticisms are petty, and amount to the narrative simply not matching their own head canon.

Like obviously people flip their shit about the ending, but the idea of it isn't really that bad. It's just the execution and motivation. I simply don't think Ellie would have had the change of heart, as there wasn't really much change or self reflection upon the journey. The huge missed opportunity was of course to have Ellie discover that Abby's dad was killed by Joel. Remember that only we know that. Ellie doesn't.

Finding that out, and having her imagine that loss, which she herself experienced when Abby took Joel from her, realizing they are essentially even, seeing Lev depend on Abby like Ellie depended on Joel, would actually make this course of action believable.

All the pieces were there. But the game never put them together. Strip out all the Abby sections from the game, and discard them from your mind. You now know what Ellie knows. And so do you think Ellie would spare her? Do you think the story would have changed Ellie? I don't.

I remember mentioning that the Naughty Dog formula was to never show the player something the character doesn't know. Your perspectives are the same in say, Uncharted or the original Last of Us as that of the main character. Uncharted 2 breaks that rule, but I think forgets that the characters don't know what we know. We as the player might have had an arc, but Ellie has not. Unless she learns what we know.

I'm willing to accept that some people who played the game came around to Abby. But not that Ellie did.

For me, I think it’s the imagery at the end that sells it. She cuts Abby down, and Abby ignores her and goes immediately to Lev and carries in to the boat. It echoes Joel carrying Ellie out of the hospital. You’re right, I don’t think it’s sold incredibly well for Ellie to have the change of heart. I could buy it more if she had simply stayed with Dina.

I’m replaying the game now. Are you sure Ellie doesn’t know? Obviously we do, so maybe it was just too easy to jump to that conclusion. At one point one of the WLF (maybe Abby, I can’t remember) says “You’re her,” meaning the immune girl from the hospital. I think that’s probably enough for her to connect the dots.

If anything at all in that final scene echoed Joel's execution, I would've called it a day.

Joel flashing right then doesn't really explain the change in heart, since that exact same flash of memory is exactly what drove Ellie away from Dina. If that last flash of memory also flashed back to Ellie pleading on the ground and Lev was doing the same thing on the boat, we would get the exact same ending we did, but tighter, imo.

I’m replaying the game now. Are you sure Ellie doesn’t know? Obviously we do, so maybe it was just too easy to jump to that conclusion. At one point one of the WLF (maybe Abby, I can’t remember) says “You’re her,” meaning the immune girl from the hospital. I think that’s probably enough for her to connect the dots.

I don't think so. That literally has nothing to do with Joel killing Abby's father. All Ellie knows is that Abby was after Joel because of him killing everyone and rescuing her. Abby never tells her the personal connection.

If anything at all in that final scene echoed Joel's execution, I would've called it a day.

Joel flashing right then doesn't really explain the change in heart, since that exact same flash of memory is exactly what drove Ellie away from Dina. If that last flash of memory also flashed back to Ellie pleading on the ground and Lev was doing the same thing on the boat, we would get the exact same ending we did, but tighter, imo.

Fanfic time.

Ellie spares Abby. "Where will you go?" Abby: "To the fireflies on Catalina". Ellie "Take me with you. I should have died for a cure". Abby says no, and that the fireflies probably would have used a cure for leverage and political gains rather than altruism. A fact Joel could have pointed out to Ellie to justify his decision. Ellie is mad at Joel for robbing her of a future that probably could never have happened, and they both understand why he did it. They both square up and Ellie returns home.

I think the cure is a moot point. How would you even manufacture and distribute a cure? Even if you could, you’re right—I don’t think the Fireflies are just going to give it to everybody.

Jackson proves that humanity can still do okay. They’re doing better than just surviving.

I think the cure is a moot point. How would you even manufacture and distribute a cure? Even if you could, you’re right—I don’t think the Fireflies are just going to give it to everybody.

Jackson proves that humanity can still do okay. They’re doing better than just surviving.

I updated the post to be better. The cure is indeed moot, but the recognition of that fact could bring them both together.

Yeah I guess you’re right.

Well, that changes things entirely. Not that it's bad, mind you.

I think end to being a little too clean, puts too much of a bow on it for me.

Where do you think Ellie goes? Is she going back to Jackson to find Dina, or is she going somewhere else?

I think end to being a little too clean, puts too much of a bow on it for me.

Where do you think Ellie goes? Is she going back to Jackson to find Dina, or is she going somewhere else?

She's lost Dina forever. I think she'd tell Tommy she forgives Joel, but not go back to anyone and instead start anew somewhere.

Yeah, I had to. ;-)

You mean Pearl Jam’s song. Which was released a full two weeks after Outbreak Day.

[Go to 1:50:02 if hitting play on the clip doesn't take you straight there.

This is hilarious. Spoilers obviously, not that anyone should care at this point.

https://youtu.be/6UDi8pL4RWg

This is hilarious. Spoilers obviously, not that anyone should care at this point.

https://youtu.be/6UDi8pL4RWg

Worst game he ever played huh? He must not have played Final Fantasy 15.

You know, the internet’s constant mocking of Abby’s appearance I think really does expose an ugly truth. It’s specifically why the trope of the strong masculine woman typically has her being either uninterested in sex, or a lesbian. Men are uncomfortable with heterosexual displays by masculine women. And lo and behold this is what we see in aggregate with Abby, a masculine heterosexual woman, while Ellie fits the trope and is loved. I cannot believe this is solely due to her being “poorly written” when her motivations and reasons for change are the most clear of any characater.

It’s so weird when critics of the game are accused of hating women, while the game so completely re enforces the patriarchal subjugation of the feminine. I didn’t even talk about Lev, who is subject to such overt oppression (being a child bride), that the solution is to shave his head and become a man. Rather than fight for women, he discards the feminine all together.

I’m just baffled that no critics really even discuss any of this. Is their ability to analyze so shallow that they think female leads automatically mean the game is good for women?

You mean Pearl Jam’s song. Which was released a full two weeks after Outbreak Day.

The album was released two weeks later (it’s even advertised in the Seattle music store as “coming soon”). Songs off of albums are often released well in advance. Future Days was first performed on July 19, a full two months before the first game starts (September 26), so it makes sense that Joel would have locked into that song if he was a fan.

Even Neil addressed this particular nitpick from people:

But how did Joel know @pearljam's Future Days if the song didn't drop until October 2013 -- a month after Outbreak Day? Glad you asked! You see... it was performed live and posted on youtube months prior to the album's release. https://t.co/WEQmwPrE7L pic.twitter.com/g6Wa3GcMUh

— Neil Druckmann (@Neil_Druckmann) June 28, 2020

I miss Ellie's jokes and enthusiasm for comics. Snowball fight aside, the game is oppressively heavy. I can't play for more than an hour before I have to take a break. It's interesting because I just now got to a part where something very, very bad is happening. I was surprised that there wasn't a gut punch in the first level like there was in the first game, but I guess you can't ring that bell again. I recall feeling this way playing the first game, too, but it felt lighter somehow. It could just be that 2020 sucks.

BTW, I probably won't read comments for a while, but try to keep them spoiler free. For reference, Joel & Tommy & Abby just escaped the horde.

BTW, I probably won't read comments for a while, but try to keep them spoiler free.

Joel Kills Dumbledore.

The game can definitely feel oppressive. There are some absolutely great lighter, happy moments throughout, tough. Just to give you something to look forward to.

Eager to hear what you think.

The game can definitely feel oppressive. There are some absolutely great lighter, happy moments throughout, tough.

I can think of TWO. The rocket ship, and the weed bunker. MAYBE the first bit on the farmhouse.

No Take On Me???

I think a lot of the flashbacks have moments of happiness. Seeing Abby with her dad, her and Owen finding the aquarium. Hell, the beginning if Day One for Abby. I played fetch with Bear for fifteen minutes. Although was also sad, because I definitely killed Bear as Ellie at some point.

I do wish they hadn’t sidelined Dina, because their little conversations were good.

https://www.polygon.com/2020/6/26/21304642/the-last-of-us-2-violence

So no, Ellie can’t change. She can’t change because AAA games can’t change. Let’s say Ellie learns her lesson, that violence begets violence. That to save the world and herself, she must put down the gun. What would she even do? Literally, what would a AAA game even allow for her to do?

I've always said, the future is in RPGs. AAA games will inevitably all have to become RPGs.

(Apparently my brain is very wordy today. Hope y'all don't mind a read.)

Game Platform Exclusivity sucks. Once again, like a steam sale, the library of games "I must play", grows larger. I haven't owned a Playstation since it was... well, PLAYSTATION. (Which still is just THE BEST intro.)

Silver lining though, as long as I don't dig in too greedily and too deep like some Lord Of the Rings Dwarf, I can skip across a field of spoilers and get to the other side unscathed. Most of the stuff I've read about which involves the story of Last of Us 2, fortunately doesn't MEAN anything to me at this point. At this point all I have is some names of folk (which I'll probably forget), a Zombie Apocalypse, and the apparent(?) shock that valley girls probably wouldn't survive said apocalypse. Other than that, I don't know shit about this game. I'm OK with that.

Why am I saying all this? Well, in my peeks around the corner, selectively eavesdropping on conversations about Last of Us 2, one thing is blatantly true - even with the pre-reivews I read; Through the level of realism Naughty Dog has achieved, THIS SUCKER IS STRAIGHT UP VIOLENCE PORN!

Violence, of course, is nothing new in games. If you have been playing videogames at all, you know what to expect if you play a Mortal Kombat game. Shoot, it's why we have the ESRB in the first place. For their latest iteration, there was apparently at least one Developer for Mortal Kombat 11 who apparently got PSTD from the process of creating Mortal Kombats ever infamous Fatalities, Brutalities, and what not. Just in case you don't know, part of the creation process that must be done is to collect REAL WORLD VISUAL references. Man, what does THAT Google history look like! Essh! Link to the source of this has an expectantly, Mortal Kombat Violent picture.

I bring this up, as, the little I've seen for Last of Us 2 is 110X more violent for our minds than anything Mortal Komabat has done. Of course, your results may very. It all depends on your natural tendency, for lack of a better word. If you're a hunter who has in the field skinned an animal moments after getting a kill, your mental space is arguably wired differently than... a vegetarian who has become such for reasons not due to dietary needs. Not calling out anything, just throwing out examples.

Watching someone pull out a beating heart with their bare hands? Or even a human spine? Ripping off an arm and beating the poor sucker to death with it? It's so out there, even with the realistic-ish look of modern games, it's debatably arcadeish. It's JUST SO crazy enough to possibly be able to separate yourself from the violence you see, like one may also do in a movie. As long as you aren't a toddler, you can separate "real" from this crazed "shared imagination".

Than, there is Last Of Us 2. There is some pretty cool tech and tricks in this game. I've seen the rope physics, which... how long did that take to make? I love the trick they used to fake global illumination in dark rooms, which as I understand it is essentially using the flash light as a color picker and than tinting your screen though post-prosessing. Very cool.

Than I watched a character stab viciously bearing teeth, with fear drenched intent, as if some poor animal who has long forgotten warmth, shank repeatedly-rapidly-again-and-again as if a motion was a scream and time a blur *SHK* in neck of some poor poor fool. Boom Boom. Blood with a realistically accurate shape gushes out with each jagged stab, only to be thrown aside a former person now slab of meat, recklessly collapsed in a crumple slopped to the floor, doomed to draw one last gurgled breath in some bloody pool of their own will-less making. That's... how I'm going to describe it anyway.

"Oh... SHIT!"

That was just one. I've seen a few other clips too. Folks... that shit can stay with ya. We're at a point now in virtual visualization the question needs to be asked, "Has Science gone too far?". In fact... before I continue this... whatever this is, now seems a good time as ever for some eye bleach.

I've long enjoyed the pursuit of realism in games. Learning how these things work, and WHY it works, helps bring an appreciation for things that you wouldn't even know to think of. What makes something look real versus a more stylized look or just... not even "right" at all? It's all very fascinating. But now... now as we are at the cusp of breaking that visual 4th wall practically completely (which I say, as I'm note sure where else needs to be improved visually), it seems to me that with great power comes great responsibility.

It's one thing to watch a movie with some sort of realistic violence in it, but playing a game that is visually realistic is different. It's an experience. And right now... y'all experiencing the tribalistic end of all things. AND THAT'S JUST 2020! /s(?)

I've not even played the game and man... even if it was a movie. Would this shit be R or NC-17? Man.

Look, I worry bout y'all. It's a casual worry, but its a worry. Y'all take care of yourselves. It all might be 1's and 0's, but wow... it really seems to be transcending to be something else. Be careful out there.

---
Next Time On "INSANEdrive Rambles about [Subject Goes Here]"
Cyberpunk 2077; How Much Snoo Snoo is Too Much Snoo Snoo?

I haven't owned a Playstation since it was... well, PLAYSTATION. (Which still is just THE BEST intro.)

Jerk.

:-p

(I was originally goin' to do this one... but than... I had an idea. ^_^. Gotta say, that was far quicker than I thought. LOL.)

Skimmed while squinting. One thing The Last of Us 1 did was cut away after just showing you a flash of the worst thing. So far part 2 is similar. That said, I could barely watch the reveal teaser scene they released for Part II last summer or whenever it was, so I'm anxious.

Good reflections. I do have some other thoughts though.

What we perceive as the uncanny valley is a moving target. Early film, while obvious to us now, looked like reality. Violence, digested through time, has looked real in its various incarnations. Sure, it is more realistic now, but I'm not sure the psychological impact is different now.

We've been using digital representations of violence to make humans more killable for years. From changing the shape of targets to represent humanoid shapes to using simulators to practice killing, we have used technology and visual styles to wear away our initial hesitancy to kill.

I'm with you that this is probably a bad thing (and I have my own convoluted rationalizations for my own consumption of violent media as a filthy vegetarian wannabe pacifist), but I'm not sure that changing the "realism" threshold makes this worse than previous iterations.

If anything at all in that final scene echoed Joel's execution, I would've called it a day.

Joel flashing right then doesn't really explain the change in heart, since that exact same flash of memory is exactly what drove Ellie away from Dina. If that last flash of memory also flashed back to Ellie pleading on the ground and Lev was doing the same thing on the boat, we would get the exact same ending we did, but tighter, imo.

It's not the same memory, though. That final memory where she wants to try and forgive Joel was only flashed once: just before Ellie let her live. It's arguably the most painful memory for Ellie as it was her finally trying to come around and then Joel is stolen right from her.

If anything at all in that final scene echoed Joel's execution, I would've called it a day.

Joel flashing right then doesn't really explain the change in heart, since that exact same flash of memory is exactly what drove Ellie away from Dina. If that last flash of memory also flashed back to Ellie pleading on the ground and Lev was doing the same thing on the boat, we would get the exact same ending we did, but tighter, imo.

It's not the same memory, though. That final memory where she wants to try and forgive Joel was only flashed once: just before Ellie let her live. It's arguably the most painful memory for Ellie as it was her finally trying to come around and then Joel is stolen right from her.

But what changed in her character between leaving Dina and the beach? There was no moment of change, no real introspection. There COULD have been if Abby told her Joel killed her father. But as presented, Ellie has no reason to change.

Characters shouldn't just change their minds on a whim. They should have an experience which leads them to change.

I can't recall if this was confirmed, but the idea is that Ellie is unpacking her memories as we see them. She's unable to face that final, most painful memory until that moment, where she remembers her attempt at forgiveness.