Marty O’Donnell talks about Activison x Bungie

Seen first @ Reddit. Brought it here for our Discussion. I'm just going to quote the OP. No need for formatting it.
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So hiddenXperia has an interview with Marty O’Donnell and they have a seriously illuminating conversation about how and why they chose Activison

Here’s the [timestamped] video

There are time stamps in the description but I’ll summarize it

From 1:38:25 onward

Marty thought siding with Activision was a horrible idea
They contemplated getting back with Microsoft but MS demanded that they have ownership of Destiny as a whole (like Halo)
It was far worse then Bungie had feared it would be. He said that Bungie went into business with Activision for the sole reason that they would allow Bungie to keep ownership of Destiny as a franchise
Despite what Bungie employees say, Activision messed with a lot of what Bungie was trying to do. Marty also brought up the point that the safeguard in place to prevent Activision from messing with Bungie was 7 studio heads (himself included) who would deliberate on ideas
Not all the studio heads felt that Bungie should remain completely autonomous and sided with Activision on some of their decisions. Many of those people still work at Bungie
The first red flag that Bungie notices was that at a dinner before the contract was signed, Activision higher ups mocked Marty’s statement that you should “respect the goose”
If you treat the goose with respect, it’ll make golden eggs.
one of their financial advisers made a joke about how regardless of the type of egg, it’ll always taste good
This threw Marty off and he says that he wishes they scrapped the idea then and there
He dryly jokes that the massive legal battle he and Bungie had was partly due to Activision
He jokes that hindsight is 20/20 and that they never should have partnered with Activision

Pretty eye opening stuff

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My first two thoughts where, good or bad, this is only one persons story and also where would Destiny be without Activision?

Now, I know Marty is a good guy and I like his work, I really do. But we all know this isn't black and white. I honestly don't know much about it, but I never take sides without hearing from both parties.

And the thing about Activision makes it sound like I think Activision swooped in and saved Bungie, but that's not what I meant by that statement. I am simply saying, where would Destiny be if Bungie hadn't signed with Activision or Microsoft? Would there even be a Destiny? Sure, Activision isn't exactly an amazing company, but regardless of what you think about them, they did make Destiny happen. Maybe it's not perfect but at least I got to play it and I'm glad for that.

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And the thing about Activision makes it sound like I think Activision swooped in and saved Bungie, but that's not what I meant by that statement. I am simply saying, where would Destiny be if Bungie hadn't signed with Activision or Microsoft? Would there even be a Destiny?

Well, they had a few choices. Due to the size and scope of Destiny, it had to be a big publisher:

1. Microsoft
2. Activision
3. EA
4. Sony
5. Nintendo

Apparently EA and Nintendo were non starters (supposedly), but the question remains why Sony wasn't in the running. It was down to MS and Activision at the end of the day. I don't know the answer to why Sony wasn't a good fit, but there was conceivably another option.

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You don't think Sony was eliminated for exactly the same reason that the OP says MS was - because they required exclusivity?

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You don't think Sony was eliminated for exactly the same reason that the OP says MS was - because they required exclusivity?

It wasn't just that MS required exclusivity. They wanted to own the IP. I do not know what Sony's terms would have been. Bungie went with Activision because Bungie could own Destiny.

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You don't think Sony was eliminated for exactly the same reason that the OP says MS was - because they required exclusivity?

It wasn't just that MS required exclusivity. They wanted to own the IP. I do not know what Sony's terms would have been. Bungie went with Activision because Bungie could own Destiny.

Even exclusivity on PlayStation would’ve been a disaster for Bungie. Remember the butthurt even on the saner places of the internet (like here) because of the little bit of exclusivity they did have?

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Even exclusivity on PlayStation would’ve been a disaster for Bungie. Remember the butthurt even on the saner places of the internet (like here) because of the little bit of exclusivity they did have?

There's a difference between having an entire game as a console exclusive (meaning it's only on PlayStation and never on Xbox) versus having console exclusive things. There's no way to justify a situation where two people pay the same price for a video game and get different content solely because of the chosen platform. It is inherently unfair. Phrasing the duration for the exclusivity of PlayStation content to "at least" one year was deceptive. Releasing the final wave of Destiny 1 PlayStation exclusives to Xbox players after Destiny 2 released was a slap in the face, and I'm happy that the practice no longer continues.

I'd bet that the only reason the game itself was never a console exclusive was because Sony didn't offer enough money to cover the projected loss in profits from the Xbox market. Or, maybe, someone fought to keep that playerbase alive.

-SR

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Even exclusivity on PlayStation would’ve been a disaster for Bungie. Remember the butthurt even on the saner places of the internet (like here) because of the little bit of exclusivity they did have?

There's a difference between having an entire game as a console exclusive (meaning it's only on PlayStation and never on Xbox) versus having console exclusive things. There's no way to justify a situation where two people pay the same price for a video game and get different content solely because of the chosen platform. It is inherently unfair. Phrasing the duration for the exclusivity of PlayStation content to "at least" one year was deceptive. Releasing the final wave of Destiny 1 PlayStation exclusives to Xbox players after Destiny 2 released was a slap in the face, and I'm happy that the practice no longer continues.

100% agree with this.

I'd bet that the only reason the game itself was never a console exclusive was because Sony didn't offer enough money to cover the projected loss in profits from the Xbox market. Or, maybe, someone fought to keep that playerbase alive.

-SR

I also think that Bungie very much believes in getting their games to as many people as possible. There is a reason why it's on 3 (4?) platforms, it's not because it's easy on the development team to maintain all of that, or because they want to make as much money as physically possible. I could be wrong, but I get that feeling about Bungie.

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I also think that Bungie very much believes in getting their games to as many people as possible. There is a reason why it's on 3 (4?) platforms, it's not because it's easy on the development team to maintain all of that, or because they want to make as much money as physically possible. I could be wrong, but I get that feeling about Bungie.

It was on 4 platforms because Bungie delayed. Development was originally for PS3 and Xbox 360 only. That was in the contract. Then with the delay Activision said “You’re doing next gen versions now”. “Uh no, the contract says PS3/360”. “Tough. If we give you an extension, then you ship on all 4.”

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I also think that Bungie very much believes in getting their games to as many people as possible. There is a reason why it's on 3 (4?) platforms, it's not because it's easy on the development team to maintain all of that, or because they want to make as much money as physically possible. I could be wrong, but I get that feeling about Bungie.

It was on 4 platforms because Bungie delayed. Development was originally for PS3 and Xbox 360 only. That was in the contract. Then with the delay Activision said “You’re doing next gen versions now”. “Uh no, the contract says PS3/360”. “Tough. If we give you an extension, then you ship on all 4.”

I was talking about Consoles and PC, not generational platforms. Also I imagine making it for the next gen version wasn't that much harder to do other than making sure it looks prettier. Way big of a difference than say making it work on PC.

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Even exclusivity on PlayStation would’ve been a disaster for Bungie. Remember the butthurt even on the saner places of the internet (like here) because of the little bit of exclusivity they did have?

There's a difference between having an entire game as a console exclusive (meaning it's only on PlayStation and never on Xbox) versus having console exclusive things. There's no way to justify a situation where two people pay the same price for a video game and get different content solely because of the chosen platform. It is inherently unfair. Phrasing the duration for the exclusivity of PlayStation content to "at least" one year was deceptive. Releasing the final wave of Destiny 1 PlayStation exclusives to Xbox players after Destiny 2 released was a slap in the face, and I'm happy that the practice no longer continues.

In this case I'd take that model over Destiny being a Playstation exclulsive. I always said that Sony hyped the exclusive content to make it seem more important than it was. The only content that really mattered were the strikes, which were hit and miss, and like all strikes, pretty soon became nice comfort food, not crucial content IMHO. I'm not going to re-legislate the issue about which most of us regulars wrote thousands of words years ago. I'll just say that a popular argument was that Bungie owed a special debt to their core audience--Xbox owners. It was deja vu for those of us who remember the Great Mac Abandonment, which was, frankly, a much more significant "betrayal."

I'd bet that the only reason the game itself was never a console exclusive was because Sony didn't offer enough money to cover the projected loss in profits from the Xbox market. Or, maybe, someone fought to keep that playerbase alive.

Probably so, and this is why my butthurt over Bungie leaving Mac users behind, and my slight wince over PS Destiny exclusives quickly dissipated--I like the stuff Bungie makes, I want them to continue making it, I understand it's a tough business, and that you sometimes have to make compromises in order to survive. That certainly seems an accurate characterization of the Microsoft acquisition. Whether the exclusivity deal and Activision money was necessary is still being debated, and who knows about NetEase. All that said I give Bungie credit for consistently leaning into their ambition. Of course Cody holds the cards, and will give us the REAL story about bad leadership and whatever else, and I bet a portion of that is true, too. I'm not cynical for saying that--I'm realistic. I've seen enough of big organizations to know how rare competence is. Much of the time companies are in the process of tacking away from a storm on the horizon, and the trick is to make it appear as if the course and destination is and was always clear.

Disclaimer: haven't listened to the interview yet.

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The only content that really mattered were the strikes, which were hit and miss, and like all strikes, pretty soon became nice comfort food, not crucial content IMHO.

They definitely toed the line well enough to get away with it. Not quite significant enough exclusive content to keep Xbox players away.

I'll just say that a popular argument was that Bungie owed a special debt to their core audience--Xbox owners. It was deja vu for those of us who remember the Great Mac Abandonment, which was, frankly, a much more significant "betrayal."

I wouldn't subscribe to that argument, but I'd love to know if someone fought to prevent Destiny from being a PlayStation console exclusive and we ultimately ended up with a compromise.

Whether the exclusivity deal and Activision money was necessary is still being debated, and who knows about NetEase.

Out of the frying pan...

Much of the time companies are in the process of tacking away from a storm on the horizon, and the trick is to make it appear as if the course and destination is and was always clear.

Agreed, and we'll likely never know the real details.

-SR

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Thanks for summarizing, I appreciate it.

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“Sometimes there’s nothing like a good foie gras”.

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Just kidding. I hate liver, in any form.

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Just kidding. I hate liver, in any form.

Of ordering Foie Gras as an appetizer not realizing that my entrée was served on a "bed of foie gras". Suffice it to say, my french client was very amused.

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Just kidding. I hate liver, in any form.

Of ordering Foie Gras as an appetizer not realizing that my entrée was served on a "bed of foie gras". Suffice it to say, my french client was very amused.

I'll be honest… I love the stuff.

Yeah I know how it's made, and yeah it's now illegal in California (the grandfather clause for the last place here to be able to serve it expired recently), but man it's delicious.

This is one thing I'm totally full of shit about. I know it's wrong, but whenever I travel I always get it at least once.

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We were just discussing this story on my Discord so I popped my head in here, naturally.

Anyway, I get the feeling that guy didn't expect anyone to understand the reference. In any case, good on you Marty.

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It was exciting to learn during this interview that Paul Bertone has joined Highwire Games!? I hope that doesn't fall through or fizzle out.
I think if I remember correctly, amongst other things Bert was one of the many key folks that helped make ODST into a really unique and memorable foray into the Halo universe.

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It was exciting to learn during this interview that Paul Bertone has joined Highwire Games!? I hope that doesn't fall through or fizzle out.
I think if I remember correctly, amongst other things Bert was one of the many key folks that helped make ODST into a really unique and memorable foray into the Halo universe.

I just noticed that as well. In addition to his work on ODST, I believe he was one of the lead designers on Halo 3.

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It was exciting to learn during this interview that Paul Bertone has joined Highwire Games!? I hope that doesn't fall through or fizzle out.
I think if I remember correctly, amongst other things Bert was one of the many key folks that helped make ODST into a really unique and memorable foray into the Halo universe.

I just noticed that as well. In addition to his work on ODST, I believe he was one of the lead designers on Halo 3.

I double checked the Halo 3 Credits and found he was titled 'Campaign Design Lead' along with Rob Stokes.

Paul worked on every Halo game including Halo 1, in some varying degree.
I specifically called out ODST because I remember that team did something really special on that project, working within many constraints while purposefully pushing "outside the box" to craft something new/interesting/unique. They absolutely took ownership of that expansion/game.

After my post the other day, I found myself re-reading this old article from a few years back on:
Vice
(wayback)
I was pleasantly reminded just how much diligence and devotion they (Paul specifically) invested into ODST.
I had also forgotten over the years Paul was often getting pulled from other projects like "Phoenix", "Gypsum", or the Peter Jackson video game (that never truly materialized), in order to help primary projects.

“Gypsum” was my second-favorite time at Bungie. It was a small team, we all sat with each other. We were doing something that I absolutely wanted to do, and I still want to do in my career.

I only went down there one time [New Zealand*], right on the heels of Halo 3 shipping. But as design lead I pretty much had free reign to do what I wanted. And we knew for this (WingNut) game [infer:Halo 4*] you weren’t going to be the Chief, you were just going to be a marine. We did a lot of work on prototyping what that would feel like, during that timeframe. And Joe was hashing story stuff back and forth with Peter’s [Peter Jackson's*] writing team, because they didn’t know how to do anything with games. [*added my notes for context]

Microsoft wanted Halo 3 campaign DLC. And Joe and I were interested in doing that, but less so in taking existing Halo 3 campaign content and reusing that in any way, shape or form. It’d have felt cheap to us, and we’d have gotten killed in the press. We wouldn’t have been happy working on it.

I’m not going to look at ODST and say everything about it was perfect. There were a lot of hardships and passionate debates on how things should’ve been, a lot of starts and a lot of stops. But to see the amount we did, with fewer than 20 people full-time on the project, with help at the end to push it over the line, I’m super proud. ODST is definitely my top project at Bungie. It’s the one I’m most proud of.

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Marty O’Donnell talks about Activison x Bungie (Destiny)