https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/50752

Main blerb is in the title. Full details in link above. Yes, this means Dreaming City is still somehow go. Look forward to the chatter.

Seeing a few Q's already -

What about Dreaming City? Destination will be retained, including the Last Wish Raid and Shattered Throne Dungeon.

How will I earn Dead Man's Tale and Hawkmoon after their missions enter the DCV? Team is working on alternative acquisition sources. https://t.co/9mbJW3CVY7

— dmg04 (@A_dmg04) October 7, 2021

What about those Exotic Catalysts? Team is also working on ways to continue earning DMT and Hawkmoon catalysts. They're also looking at acquisition sources for Fourth Horseman, Outbreak Prime, and Whisper.

— dmg04 (@A_dmg04) October 7, 2021

This is kind of what I was thinking might happen, given the seeming importance of the Dreaming City to the story moving forward.

Losing Prestige and Harbinger kind of stinks, but not really for me (I've already done them enough). More for people that will never have had a chance to do them.

So, besides the Triumphs that we knew expired Season 15, looks like I've just got a few extra on the Tangled Shore to get done. Empty Tank Lost Sector stuff, more Ether Harvest shooting, and killing a "Tortured Abomination" in a Public Event in 4-Horn Gulch (apparently somewhat rare).

- No text -

It's kinda weird that they let me play the forsaken strikes in the strike playlist, but when that same strike is a nightfall it restricts access.

I got to attempt the medium-difficulty nightfall when it was Sepiks a few weeks ago, but I didn't have any anti-champion mods then ._.

I want to live in a world where they leave the good stuff and instead get rid of the shit, like Nessus and all of Gambit.

Ah, but some people love Nessus and Gambit. Can't please everyone, of course!

Ah, but some people love Nessus and Gambit.

It’s okay to be wrong sometimes.

and a spit in the face to people that buy into this game.

Making a campaign free before it leaves the game is a scam to get people to pay money? I’m not following.

Making a campaign free before it leaves the game is a scam to get people to pay money? I’m not following.

Me either. I mean, any free content in a game could be characterized that way.

and a spit in the face to people that buy into this game.

I have never understood this attitude.

Forsaken was released a little over 3 years ago. When they vault it, it'll have had 41 months of total life. If you didn't buy it, you could play it in its entirety for 3 of those months.

How is that a spit in the face to ANYONE? What do I lose by having friends (who didn't think it was worth the $50) get it for free and be able to play with me for 3 months? I thought it was worth the $50, I bought it. I played it for a long time. Letting someone else have access for free for a short window doesn't hurt me AT ALL.

(And in this particular case, if you love what you see, paying extra to play it longer isn't even an option - they're vaulting it. So the whole 'pushing people into going paid account' doesn't even make sense in this case.)

and a spit in the face to people that buy into this game.

I have never understood this attitude.

Forsaken was released a little over 3 years ago. When they vault it, it'll have had 41 months of total life. If you didn't buy it, you could play it in its entirety for 3 of those months.

How is that a spit in the face to ANYONE? What do I lose by having friends (who didn't think it was worth the $50) get it for free and be able to play with me for 3 months? I thought it was worth the $50, I bought it. I played it for a long time. Letting someone else have access for free for a short window doesn't hurt me AT ALL.

(And in this particular case, if you love what you see, paying extra to play it longer isn't even an option - they're vaulting it. So the whole 'pushing people into going paid account' doesn't even make sense in this case.)

I still hate the idea of vaulting, but they've always billed Destiny as a living world, and buying it at all implies an acceptance of the fact that the content in the game at the time of purchase will not remain static.

I hate vaulting out of principle. I fucking paid for it, what right do they have to take it?

That said, it’s been nearly a year now, and that’s the expectation moving forward. I’m not paying for specific content, I’m paying for access to the thing that is Destiny, whatever it’s current form. I can accept that. I just think the way the decided to do it after I’d already spent hundreds of dollars on it with no way to opt out is fucking shitty. They should have made Destiny 3, or at least left the current iteration of Destiny as a stand alone app somehow and moved forward with a new thing from there.

I don’t hate vaulting as a concept—I hate that it was done without my knowledge when that wasn’t what I agreed to when I gave them
money. I think Destiny as a thing with rotating content and activities is a totally fine idea, and I even think it has allowed them to make a better, more interesting game.

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯. So what you gonna do? Write to your senator? Heh, presuming they even know that we stopped using punch cards and tubes. It's a shame this is the attitude I bring, as I am not so alien as to not understand this frustration of things. This "as a service" concept, basically. Yet, as far as this sort of thing goes, Bungie has been by and large fairly earnest about this, me thinks. And so this take, this...

What a blatant scam to push people into going paid account... and a spit in the face to people that buy into this game.

...is moot.

. . .

It's a shame we must weigh things by how evil they could be.

I hate vaulting out of principle. I fucking paid for it, what right do they have to take it?

Yep, I never liked the idea that I couldn't replay stuff. I didn't like even minor things that were added to the world temporarily and wouldn't or couldn't be seen again (but more significantly, I'd like to play the missing raids with CyberKN).

That said, it’s been nearly a year now, and that’s the expectation moving forward. I’m not paying for specific content, I’m paying for access to the thing that is Destiny, whatever it’s current form. I can accept that. I just think the way the decided to do it after I’d already spent hundreds of dollars on it with no way to opt out is fucking shitty. They should have made Destiny 3, or at least left the current iteration of Destiny as a stand alone app somehow and moved forward with a new thing from there.

I don’t hate vaulting as a concept—I hate that it was done without my knowledge when that wasn’t what I agreed to when I gave them
money. I think Destiny as a thing with rotating content and activities is a totally fine idea, and I even think it has allowed them to make a better, more interesting game.

Yep, agree.

. . .

It's a shame we must weigh things by how evil they could be.

... assuming the most evil intentions.

I hope you remember our bet about there never being a Destiny 3. :-p

Im just not gonna play this game that thinks removing large chunks of itself is a good idea.

I hope you remember our bet about there never being a Destiny 3. :-p

You’re misremembering our bet.

My money is on Activision using their option to pull out of the contract with Bungie (which they can do now that Forsaken is out). Bungie will sell or license the Destiny IP, and another studio will continue making Destiny games (perhaps even VV or High Moon). Bungie then moves forward with whatever they are going to make with the Netease money.

Where does Destiny 3 come up? This was about Bungie no longer making Destiny going forward.

My reply:

I'll bet you a copy of Destiny 3 that doesn't happen, and that Bungie will be the developer of that game.

Even that was more about who is developing it than whether it’s actually Destiny 3.

And finally, your bet:

I'll take it. If Destiny 3 is developed by Bungie, I buy it for you. If it's developed by someone else, you buy me Naughty Dog's next game.

At worst for me, that’s a draw. Destiny 3 doesn’t exist, so it’s moot, but Bungie is still actively developing Destiny.

I hate vaulting out of principle. I fucking paid for it, what right do they have to take it?

I mean, I paid for Forsaken, but I haven't played the campaign past since 2019 and haven't really engaged with the Tangled Shore outside of going to it to get glimmer from Spider since probably early 2020.

I get why people are mad for content they paid money to access going away, and I really wish Bungie would address this from a game preservation standpoint (ie, making a permanently standalone playable build of each version of Destiny before vaulting it - they don't even need to make it publically accessible in some way right away, but at LEAST start the preservation effort), on the other hand if we think of any node we hit to play an activity like a Halo playlist, they are just culling the unpopular ones and trying to have the world move forward canonically at the same time.

Even if Warden of Nothing strike seems to be surviving because it's not connected to patrol, for example, it's also been kind of obvious that the two being cut were also not popular, especially deaaaaadthiiiinng's strike. Although it also results in all the flashback bosses in Shadowkeep being from vaulted content (if you count Crota as vaulted) now, so new players will be having nightmares of content they can't even play......

It's kind of like how I paid full price for Rise of Iron, and that's still *technically* available 5 years later, but I also haven't played it in roughly 4 years. The thing is, Bungie isn't updating D1 anymore so RoI's content doesn't cost them anything more than their servers to run. The more content Bungie adds, the more they have to test in every update, and they aren't charging a monthly subscription to play the game nor do they have 10 other studios they can farm testing out to like Activision or Microsoft did for them (they even roped in Rare as a test studio for Halo 3 to get that game out the door). They can't give the same attention and care to content 2% of the playerbase is engaging as to the content 40% of the playerbase is engaging in. They have to pick their battles if they want to keep the game updated and also avoid crunch.

The fact that Forsaken will still be a purchase as of Witch Queen as the "Forsaken Pack" to access Last Wish and Throne tells me there's also an element of old Activision contract involved here. Forsaken won't even be free after it's vaulting.

Also, honestly, I wouldn't put it past Bungie that The Final Shape will bring back most or all vaulted content, then they just park that version like Destiny 1 is forever as they drop the One and PS4 and post Final Shape is the Series/PS5 and later hardware only. Because honestly, with that name, the fact they said it's the end of the light/dark storyline and how old the One/PS4 will be at that point, I expect Destiny 2: The One After Final Shape effectively vaulting the *entire* game in one go to start anew.

As I said, I don’t hate vaulting as a concept. Destiny is a game in which old content just becomes irrelevant, and I personally think it’s acceptable to get rid of chunks to make room for new and better things.

But there is a downside. You mentioned D1. I have played every D1 raid at least two or three times since D2 has released. That content is still there and available. I’d love to be able to do the same for Leviathan, Ester of Worlds, and Scourge of the Past, but Bungie decided that’s not allowed (until they probably repackage and sell them to me as part of some future season).

Again, my issue is not with vaulting, but in them taking away stuff I paid for. If Destiny had been sold as paying $70 a year for access to whatever Destiny currently is, I’d still have totally paid and this wouldn’t be an issue, and I’m happy to keep paying that every year knowing the deal. That they unilaterally decided that’s the deal retroactively is absolutely fucked.

Why do you think I take issue with the content going free to play? I have no problem with that. I take issue with content I paid for being wholesale removed from the game. I can go back to D1 and still play everything I paid for right now no issues. Content vaulting is nothing but forced FOMO under the guise of caring about Hard drive space. Hell even WoW does a better job of preserving legacy content at this point

And finally, your bet:

I'll take it. If Destiny 3 is developed by Bungie, I buy it for you. If it's developed by someone else, you buy me Naughty Dog's next game.

At worst for me, that’s a draw. Destiny 3 doesn’t exist, so it’s moot, but Bungie is still actively developing Destiny.

So if Destiny 3 never happens… then what do we do? I guess I would win since not existing means Bungie didn't develop it.

Not that I enjoy vaulting, but it's for a good reason—without it, the game would be near 200gigs, whether you paid for it or not. And then we get Destiny 1 loading screens.

And finally, your bet:

I'll take it. If Destiny 3 is developed by Bungie, I buy it for you. If it's developed by someone else, you buy me Naughty Dog's next game.

At worst for me, that’s a draw. Destiny 3 doesn’t exist, so it’s moot, but Bungie is still actively developing Destiny.

So if Destiny 3 never happens… then what do we do? I guess I would win since not existing means Bungie didn't develop it.

What? No. If Destiny 3 never happens, nobody wins.

I was under the impression Destiny 3 has released, it's just named "Beyond Light?"

Like, they had whole interviews and explanations that instead of separating the game by major release numbers every few years they decided to just have Destiny be one centralized game going forward, so they just replaced Destiny 2.0 client with the Destiny 3.0 version of the engine, hence them having to hand-port a bunch of the D2 content over to it. They didn't so much remove content as.. that content no longer works or functions in the 3.x engine anyway.

This is why I called it a draw. The thing I was actually betting against was Bungie no longer personally developing Destiny. But we did specify Destiny 3, even if that was mostly just shorthand for “the next big Destiny release.” We could just wait a decade and see if they ever make a Destiny 3.

Why do you think I take issue with the content going free to play? I have no problem with that. I take issue with content I paid for being wholesale removed from the game. I can go back to D1 and still play everything I paid for right now no issues. Content vaulting is nothing but forced FOMO under the guise of caring about Hard drive space. Hell even WoW does a better job of preserving legacy content at this point

I think the kicker here is their argument is that if they were to make that content available in the same condition D1 is available, what they'd have to do is have left Destiny 2 behind, making Destiny 3, wiping the slate clean, leaving behind every strike and destination. And start over again.

Instead they're moving Destiny 2 into a greatest hits version of Destiny. It's a curated selection of their content that is focused on being the best version of Destiny it can be at this moment.

I'm also sad that I can't just pop back over to Io and say hi to Asher just for the jolly's, but on the flip side, if Destiny 3 were out, I wouldn't bother.

I don't buy video games, ever, for it to be a "thing" that I "bought" and "own". I buy them to experience and I firmly think what Bungie is doing is at any given moment, id providing me a better experience than the alternative. To that end, thinking about how I've tracked down my copy of Chrono Trigger, bought an Analogue SuperNT, to get the best "experience" of Chrono Trigger, and realizing after playing it that it just isn't the same playing it now.

This is why I called it a draw. The thing I was actually betting against was Bungie no longer personally developing Destiny. But we did specify Destiny 3, even if that was mostly just shorthand for “the next big Destiny release.” We could just wait a decade and see if they ever make a Destiny 3.

Ok. Draw it is.

What's going away that I need to do? And it's safe to assume that I just haven't done it...whatever "it" is.

What's going away that I need to do? And it's safe to assume that I just haven't done it...whatever "it" is.

A lot of that depends on what exactly you have purchased. There is content such as Presage, Wrathborne Hunts, whatever the Hawkmoon one is called, and other things that are tied to your ownership of specific seasons. All of that is going away, but if you down own those specific seasons, you straight up can’t do it. If you own Forsaken, then I’d focus on doing that campaign, and the lone Wanted Hunt mission that Spider has for it. Also the Lost sectors.