Some thanks, and early thoughts on DSC

Kermit, you're the man. Thank you so much for finding folks who were willing to teach me through a new, difficult activity!

INSANEdrive, breitzen, Blazerunner, Kupkake, and Destroyo: you were all a joy to play with, and I hope to do so again in the future!

We were only able to make it to the third encounter after 3 hours or so. The raid seems geared to punish you if you’re not on top of the responsibilities your specific role demands, and even a little rustiness or a missed call can cause things to go real bad, real fast.

I don’t want to pass too much judgement on the quality of the play experience until I’ve seen the whole thing, but I have both positive and negative thoughts regarding the actual encounter design.

Aesthetically, the interior of the clovis-bray labs is gorgeous, like something out of 2001: A Space Odyssey. Playing with different lighting and theming for different areas of a combat arena was really neat to see.

I was planning on holding the checkpoint over reset like you used to be able to do in D1, but some cursory research seems to indicate that this little trick has been fixed in D2.

I’m looking to try again either this weekend or next; I’ll post an FTB event when I get my ducks in a row.

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No negative parts! Shut up! ;p

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It’s their best raid, period. I think there are better specific encounters, but as a complete experience, DSC fucking rules.

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Kermit, you're the man. Thank you so much for finding folks who were willing to teach me through a new, difficult activity!

INSANEdrive, breitzen, Blazerunner, Kupkake, and Destroyo: you were all a joy to play with, and I hope to do so again in the future!

We were only able to make it to the third encounter after 3 hours or so. The raid seems geared to punish you if you’re not on top of the responsibilities your specific role demands, and even a little rustiness or a missed call can cause things to go real bad, real fast.

I don’t want to pass too much judgement on the quality of the play experience until I’ve seen the whole thing, but I have both positive and negative thoughts regarding the actual encounter design.

Aesthetically, the interior of the clovis-bray labs is gorgeous, like something out of 2001: A Space Odyssey. Playing with different lighting and theming for different areas of a combat arena was really neat to see.

I was planning on holding the checkpoint over reset like you used to be able to do in D1, but some cursory research seems to indicate that this little trick has been fixed in D2.

I’m looking to try again either this weekend or next; I’ll post an FTB event when I get my ducks in a row.

The most complicated encounter relies on the team being very coordinated. It's not surprising that an out-of-practice team with people who had not all played together would need time to find their groove. I enjoyed it!

I want to be there for your completion!

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When DSC came out, it was distinctly different from every raid that came before it:

Once you'd leveled up, the bottleneck was coordination only.

(All raids have a high level of coordination needed - I don't think DSC was worse than others, in this context. What made it different was that you were, for the most part, focusing on that coordination, not splitting your attention between the coordination and the difficulty of the enemies.)

What made it different was that the enemies were not particularly difficult to stay on top of.

Sometime after it came out (maybe when Beyond Light dropped? I'm not sure), this changed. Enemies are now an actual challenge, so DSC has gone from one of the most accessible raids to one of the least accessible ones. Just checked Raid Report, and my last two attempts were failures - I have to go back 36 weeks to find another failure.

I don't know why this is, but I'm sad about it.

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Sometime after it came out (maybe when Beyond Light dropped? I'm not sure), this changed. Enemies are now an actual challenge, so DSC has gone from one of the most accessible raids to one of the least accessible ones. Just checked Raid Report, and my last two attempts were failures - I have to go back 36 weeks to find another failure.

I don't know why this is, but I'm sad about it.

DSC dropped as part of Beyond Light, or are we talking about a different raid? Or maybe you meant to say Season of the Lost?

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Sometime after it came out (maybe when Beyond Light dropped? I'm not sure), this changed. Enemies are now an actual challenge, so DSC has gone from one of the most accessible raids to one of the least accessible ones. Just checked Raid Report, and my last two attempts were failures - I have to go back 36 weeks to find another failure.

I don't know why this is, but I'm sad about it.

DSC dropped as part of Beyond Light, or are we talking about a different raid? Or maybe you meant to say Season of the Lost?

That's what the 'I'm not sure' was about. I have no real idea when the change happened... but it was well after the raid dropped. Looks like it's been out for a year or so - I guess the change in difficulty happened a season or two ago, maybe?

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That's what the 'I'm not sure' was about. I have no real idea when the change happened... but it was well after the raid dropped. Looks like it's been out for a year or so - I guess the change in difficulty happened a season or two ago, maybe?

Was it possibly this patch?: 3.2.0

One of the first entries is about fixing an issue where enemies weren't shooting enough in 6 player activities.

It's hard to figure out when this actually changed because Chris seems to suspect something is different with the enemies almost every week haha.

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I need to try it again. I don’t think I’ve done it since the Beyond Light/Season of the Hunt.

Without actually experiencing it, more difficult enemies sounds like a good thing. They were so trivial in the normal version of the raid that they nearly might as well have not been there in many encounters.

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When DSC came out, it was distinctly different from every raid that came before it:

Once you'd leveled up, the bottleneck was coordination only.

(All raids have a high level of coordination needed - I don't think DSC was worse than others, in this context. What made it different was that you were, for the most part, focusing on that coordination, not splitting your attention between the coordination and the difficulty of the enemies.)

What made it different was that the enemies were not particularly difficult to stay on top of.

Sometime after it came out (maybe when Beyond Light dropped? I'm not sure), this changed. Enemies are now an actual challenge, so DSC has gone from one of the most accessible raids to one of the least accessible ones. Just checked Raid Report, and my last two attempts were failures - I have to go back 36 weeks to find another failure.

I don't know why this is, but I'm sad about it.

It definitely seemed harder to me, but I assumed it was because we were playing with a combination of players who hadn't played together before (and had not run this raid in a while) as opposed to a team that ran it together every week, and knew what to do to the point that it barely needed discussion.

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I have definitely been dying way more often in the security room lately, so I think you're onto something

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When DSC came out, it was distinctly different from every raid that came before it:

Once you'd leveled up, the bottleneck was coordination only.

(All raids have a high level of coordination needed - I don't think DSC was worse than others, in this context. What made it different was that you were, for the most part, focusing on that coordination, not splitting your attention between the coordination and the difficulty of the enemies.)

What made it different was that the enemies were not particularly difficult to stay on top of.

Sometime after it came out (maybe when Beyond Light dropped? I'm not sure), this changed. Enemies are now an actual challenge, so DSC has gone from one of the most accessible raids to one of the least accessible ones. Just checked Raid Report, and my last two attempts were failures - I have to go back 36 weeks to find another failure.

I don't know why this is, but I'm sad about it.

That's interesting- the only enemies I found to be much of a threat were the sniper shanks and Atraks clones, who seem to have a slightly more lethal version of the standard Vandal shock rifle.

For the security room, I spent a lot of time down in the Operator section, and never found the stealth vandals there to be much of a threat (and even less so after I started employing shoulder charge + Skullfort). People were dying way more up above though, so I assume it's just a much harder role due to less cover + more baddies.

We actually noted during one doomed run how difficult it is to intentially wipe because the fallen are such poor shots while you're standing still...

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When DSC came out, it was distinctly different from every raid that came before it:

Once you'd leveled up, the bottleneck was coordination only.

(All raids have a high level of coordination needed - I don't think DSC was worse than others, in this context. What made it different was that you were, for the most part, focusing on that coordination, not splitting your attention between the coordination and the difficulty of the enemies.)

What made it different was that the enemies were not particularly difficult to stay on top of.

Sometime after it came out (maybe when Beyond Light dropped? I'm not sure), this changed. Enemies are now an actual challenge, so DSC has gone from one of the most accessible raids to one of the least accessible ones. Just checked Raid Report, and my last two attempts were failures - I have to go back 36 weeks to find another failure.

I don't know why this is, but I'm sad about it.

That's interesting- the only enemies I found to be much of a threat were the sniper shanks and Atraks clones, who seem to have a slightly more lethal version of the standard Vandal shock rifle.

For the security room, I spent a lot of time down in the Operator section, and never found the stealth vandals there to be much of a threat (and even less so after I started employing shoulder charge + Skullfort). People were dying way more up above though, so I assume it's just a much harder role due to less cover + more baddies.

We actually noted during one doomed run how difficult it is to intentially wipe because the fallen are such poor shots while you're standing still...

The security room is the encounter that my most recent attempt failed at... precisely because people were dying upstairs at a much higher rate than they used to. (We used to be able to casually discuss last weekend during that encounter... now there needs to be real focus to get through it.) You're correct - the Operator job is the easier part of things (until, of course, time runs out and you die from the lava).

Atraks isn't much worse than it used to be (although we noticed more people were dying downstairs at the beginning of the encounter than used to be the case), the spacewalk is fine(ish - if you fall early on, the number of shanks getting dropped off can make it REALLY hard to catch up)... but the third encounter is MUCH more dangerous than it used to be (I can remember having multiple conversations about how that encounter was more hectic than most encounters in Destiny... but less dangerous than most; now it's hectic AND dangerous), and the fourth is trivial to fail (used to be almost guaranteed, with maybe a restart or two if you got unlucky with the running).

Squid might be right - it might be as simple as a bunch of enemies have been tweaked to fire at normal rates when they were underperforming for the first few seasons. I dunno. All I know is that it's not the cakewalk it used to be. (For its first few months, it was a great raid to take people who'd never raided before on - it was far more forgiving than most. That is no longer the case.)

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When DSC came out, it was distinctly different from every raid that came before it:

Once you'd leveled up, the bottleneck was coordination only.

(All raids have a high level of coordination needed - I don't think DSC was worse than others, in this context. What made it different was that you were, for the most part, focusing on that coordination, not splitting your attention between the coordination and the difficulty of the enemies.)

What made it different was that the enemies were not particularly difficult to stay on top of.

Sometime after it came out (maybe when Beyond Light dropped? I'm not sure), this changed. Enemies are now an actual challenge, so DSC has gone from one of the most accessible raids to one of the least accessible ones. Just checked Raid Report, and my last two attempts were failures - I have to go back 36 weeks to find another failure.

I don't know why this is, but I'm sad about it.

That's interesting- the only enemies I found to be much of a threat were the sniper shanks and Atraks clones, who seem to have a slightly more lethal version of the standard Vandal shock rifle.

For the security room, I spent a lot of time down in the Operator section, and never found the stealth vandals there to be much of a threat (and even less so after I started employing shoulder charge + Skullfort). People were dying way more up above though, so I assume it's just a much harder role due to less cover + more baddies.

We actually noted during one doomed run how difficult it is to intentially wipe because the fallen are such poor shots while you're standing still...

The security room is the encounter that my most recent attempt failed at... precisely because people were dying upstairs at a much higher rate than they used to. (We used to be able to casually discuss last weekend during that encounter... now there needs to be real focus to get through it.) You're correct - the Operator job is the easier part of things (until, of course, time runs out and you die from the lava).

Atraks isn't much worse than it used to be (although we noticed more people were dying downstairs at the beginning of the encounter than used to be the case), the spacewalk is fine(ish - if you fall early on, the number of shanks getting dropped off can make it REALLY hard to catch up)... but the third encounter is MUCH more dangerous than it used to be (I can remember having multiple conversations about how that encounter was more hectic than most encounters in Destiny... but less dangerous than most; now it's hectic AND dangerous), and the fourth is trivial to fail (used to be almost guaranteed, with maybe a restart or two if you got unlucky with the running).

Squid might be right - it might be as simple as a bunch of enemies have been tweaked to fire at normal rates when they were underperforming for the first few seasons. I dunno. All I know is that it's not the cakewalk it used to be. (For its first few months, it was a great raid to take people who'd never raided before on - it was far more forgiving than most. That is no longer the case.)

Cyber doesn't know anything about anything beyond what we played--especially the spacewalk. We were all looking forward to his reaction.

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When DSC came out, it was distinctly different from every raid that came before it:

Once you'd leveled up, the bottleneck was coordination only.

(All raids have a high level of coordination needed - I don't think DSC was worse than others, in this context. What made it different was that you were, for the most part, focusing on that coordination, not splitting your attention between the coordination and the difficulty of the enemies.)

What made it different was that the enemies were not particularly difficult to stay on top of.

Sometime after it came out (maybe when Beyond Light dropped? I'm not sure), this changed. Enemies are now an actual challenge, so DSC has gone from one of the most accessible raids to one of the least accessible ones. Just checked Raid Report, and my last two attempts were failures - I have to go back 36 weeks to find another failure.

I don't know why this is, but I'm sad about it.

That's interesting- the only enemies I found to be much of a threat were the sniper shanks and Atraks clones, who seem to have a slightly more lethal version of the standard Vandal shock rifle.

For the security room, I spent a lot of time down in the Operator section, and never found the stealth vandals there to be much of a threat (and even less so after I started employing shoulder charge + Skullfort). People were dying way more up above though, so I assume it's just a much harder role due to less cover + more baddies.

We actually noted during one doomed run how difficult it is to intentially wipe because the fallen are such poor shots while you're standing still...

The security room is the encounter that my most recent attempt failed at... precisely because people were dying upstairs at a much higher rate than they used to. (We used to be able to casually discuss last weekend during that encounter... now there needs to be real focus to get through it.) You're correct - the Operator job is the easier part of things (until, of course, time runs out and you die from the lava).

Atraks isn't much worse than it used to be (although we noticed more people were dying downstairs at the beginning of the encounter than used to be the case), the spacewalk is fine(ish - if you fall early on, the number of shanks getting dropped off can make it REALLY hard to catch up)... but the third encounter is MUCH more dangerous than it used to be (I can remember having multiple conversations about how that encounter was more hectic than most encounters in Destiny... but less dangerous than most; now it's hectic AND dangerous), and the fourth is trivial to fail (used to be almost guaranteed, with maybe a restart or two if you got unlucky with the running).

Squid might be right - it might be as simple as a bunch of enemies have been tweaked to fire at normal rates when they were underperforming for the first few seasons. I dunno. All I know is that it's not the cakewalk it used to be. (For its first few months, it was a great raid to take people who'd never raided before on - it was far more forgiving than most. That is no longer the case.)

Cyber doesn't know anything about anything beyond what we played--especially the spacewalk. We were all looking forward to his reaction.

Eep, sorry. I thought I'd read that you made it to the third encounter. I must have misremembered.

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but he did a good job acting like he didn't. :)

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Some thanks, and early thoughts on DSC (Destiny)

Best raid currently in offer!

Best raid currently in offer!

You are correct!