Bungie? or Halo? (from the front page)

After reading it I find that I am very similar to the writer. I agree with the majority of his points.

This paragraph is the most accurate summary of my own views:

"The answer to my introspective question is : No. I am not a fan of Bungie. I think their success with Halo has earned them my attention regarding Destiny, but that’s where it ends for me. I am approaching Destiny with a cautious curiosity that very likely could result in me not purchasing the game. Currently I am still on the fence about the game with a slight pull towards the negative. Not that there are enough facts out there to garner a concrete opinion, but there are some things working for and against them in my eyes."

- I also do not like magic. This is simply because I equate magic with the fantasy genre which I don't enjoy. Its not about immersion in my case.

- I am not opinionated on the subject of menus. Totally neutral.

- I also don't like MMOs. Yes, I know this supposedly isn't an MMO. Don't care. I'm hoping they are able to separate it enough so I enjoy it. A lot of other people have said that is something Bungie is good at- taking the good qualities from something and making them even better, while leaving out the rest. I am hoping this is the case for Destiny.

- I am not opinionated on the subject of the name "destiny". Totally neutral.

Simply put, I'm interested. You have my attention. Now you have to "sell" it to me. And no, I'm not leaning to the negative, I promise. I very much want to like this, and I am excited to see where things will go.

Lastly (more of an aside): One thing the writer did not touch on was the concept of community. Man, that really complicates it on a whole other level, doesn't it?

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After reading it I find that I am very similar to the writer. I agree with the majority of his points.

I couldn't the article to which you were referring on the DBO front page. Somewhere else? Am I a moron?

(Note: answer to 2nd question is not necessarily related to the first.)

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Here

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I have to agree. Not a fan of magic or mmo. I want to like this and I'm hopeful that it might be genre shifting enough to get me in but frankly I game alone most of the time so the social element may well be lost on me.

That said I will likely try before I buy if my interest stays as more details emerge.

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I'm thinking it's going to be magic like Mass Effect has magic, I don't know if that helps shift the idea in your mind, but that's how I've been imagining it, especially since they haven't used the word magic.

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Yeah. Everything we've seen in the ViDoc and "arg" points to a technological world. The only mention of magic I've seen are from game reviewers who didn't even seem sure what they were talking about and a quote about using an ability being like hitting the enemy in the face with a piece of the sun. Well that can describe a Myth II's Warlock fireball which is magic, or Jane Shepard's Incinerate which most certainly is not. Given how random the gaming press has been on the rest of their descriptions I wouldn't put much faith in this claim of magic until we learn more. :)

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Yeah, every thing I saw that said Magic was basically comparing it to the Mage/DPS class common in stuff with classes. I'm guessing canon-wise it's just some tech we don't understand from the Traveler, along with some of the other, more straight forward tech.

It's starting to show up more in games, with stuff like Mass Effect and Borderlands, and helps mix up the tradition of just having guns. We'll see later on, but I doubt it'll feel out of place.

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You can be a fan of an individual song
You can like an entire album
You can only like a specific genre or style they do
You can like everything that musician puts out
Or you can like them as a person, but not really like anything they make.

For me, Bungie have made enough albums that I like, and I've seen enough of them in interviews and vidocs to consider myself a total fan. I'm pretty sure I'll want to at least play Destiny to see what it's like.

It's totally fine to be sceptical since the 'style' of their album has shifted this time. That's healthy. I didn't preorder their Reach album until after I'd heard a bit of it.

(ok, this analogy is getting awkward)

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You can be a fan of an individual song
You can like an entire album
You can only like a specific genre or style they do
You can like everything that musician puts out
Or you can like them as a person, but not really like anything they make.

For me, Bungie have made enough albums that I like, and I've seen enough of them in interviews and vidocs to consider myself a total fan. I'm pretty sure I'll want to at least play Destiny to see what it's like.

It's totally fine to be sceptical since the 'style' of their album has shifted this time. That's healthy. I didn't preorder their Reach album until after I'd heard a bit of it.

(ok, this analogy is getting awkward)

That's all well and good, and I'm not looking for anyone to justify my thoughts as correct or incorrect. I'm just curious as to what the rest of the bORG think (though I admit I chuckled when Claude dodged the question- we all know what he likes in that equation lol).

But I feel the same as you did with Reach. Like I said, I'm interested, but I'm not one of the guys who have pre-ordered it already. Maybe I will if I like what I see! Maybe I'll wait a bit after its out.

So to circle back, when someone asks me "Bungie or Halo?" I say Halo.

*This is of course assuming that 343 can keep Halo interesting, otherwise my answer would be "Bungie's Halo" lol. And, if both turn out to be fun for me, then I can say "Both" :).

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This analogy is awesome.

I'm hoping Destiny is to Bungie as Achtung Baby was to U2. That's what we need, man.

EDIT: God, now I'm so fucking jazz'd.

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Sorry, long time lurker. I always wondered if your screen name referred to ZooTV. I hope the game is that awesome too. Time to innovate!

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Sorry, long time lurker. I always wondered if your screen name referred to ZooTV. I hope the game is that awesome too. Time to innovate!

Haha. I kinda forgot that IS where my name is from.

To Russia, I give you capitalism. Now you can all dream of one day being as wealthy and glamorous as me.

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This analogy is awesome.

I'm hoping Destiny is to Bungie as Achtung Baby was to U2. That's what we need, man.

Oh, MacPhisto, Jr., you do make me smile. Yes. Here's hoping.

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- I also do not like magic. This is simply because I equate magic with the fantasy genre which I don't enjoy. Its not about immersion in my case.

So, I take it you didn't like Halo 4?

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- I also do not like magic. This is simply because I equate magic with the fantasy genre which I don't enjoy. Its not about immersion in my case.

So, I take it you didn't like Halo 4?

I sense that you are trying to be snide/clever but to be honest its going over my head.

Indeed, there are parts of Halo 4 that I don't like. So, if you are trying to say that ordinance drops are like magic, then you are correct that I don't like them.

Halo 4 is a mixed bag for me. There are things I like and there are things I don't like. The only difference is that Halo 4 has some major "I don't like"s.

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I sense that you are trying to be snide/clever but to be honest its going over my head.

Halo 4's story and gameplay use space magic frequently. Slipspace everything, hard light everything, magic Didact force choke...and so on.

Space Magic -
Something magical that has a few scienc-y terms slapped on it so it "makes sense".
See: Technobabble.

The moral?
I don't get why people don't like "magic", but are okay with it if it just has a different name slapped on it. Flux capacitor style, yo. Personally, I enjoy both if they're done well, and recognize that both require a certain suspension of disbelief.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
~ Arthur C. Clark.

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You hit the nail on the head!

I'll bet that the 'Magic' in Destiny is gonna turn out to be like the 'magic' in Halo, anyway.

I reckon the term was used as a whitewash term to explain why the player characters have 'powers' without giving away important story elements. It's 'magic' now, till they reveal more about the traveller, why it 'saved' us and what is actually going on.

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You hit the nail on the head!

I'll bet that the 'Magic' in Destiny is gonna turn out to be like the 'magic' in Halo, anyway.

I reckon the term was used as a whitewash term to explain why the player characters have 'powers' without giving away important story elements. It's 'magic' now, till they reveal more about the traveller, why it 'saved' us and what is actually going on.

Bada-bing, bada-boom.

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Once again, I just said that when I see the word "magic" it is associated with the fantasy genre, magicians, Houdini and other elements like that.

I know that Sci-fi has its own fair share of "magical" things.

It's just a simple trigger.

Also

Edit: Damn. Can't embed videos the way I remember. How do I video?

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Once again, I just said that when I see the word "magic" it is associated with the fantasy genre, magicians, Houdini and other elements like that.

I know that Sci-fi has its own fair share of "magical" things.

It's just a simple trigger.

I understand, a lot of people have that issue. I think it's unfortunate for them because said people tend to write amazing things off just because of a word that entails certain things for them.

It also applies to other examples I've heard, like...

"I don't play RPGs, because Final Fantasy."

"I don't play MMOs, because WoW."

"I don't play shooters, because CoD."

"I don't like magic in stuff, because Harry Potter."

"I don't like sci-fi in stuff, because Trekkies."

And so on, and so forth.

I understand I'm rare in that I enjoy a very wide variety of genres in my entertainment, and other people have different tastes. I respect that. I just recommend that people wouldn't let labels (or certain words) get in the way of enjoying something that they would otherwise not have given a chance to.

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More bang bang!

Less abra cadabra!

(lol yes, I realize that I mixed up some journalist wording. If they'd all quit regurgitating it, maybe I'd forget it. The dicks.)

I just like seeing which people say "Bungie" and which say "Halo". From a people watching stand point it helps me understand members a little better.

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Platforms that materialize just before we land on them. Enemies that disappear and reappear whenever and wherever they want.

A few know-nothing journalists use the word "magic" and suddenly all bets are off.

Hell, when I was a kid Pong was amazing, and playing a game on a TV with the sophistication of the first Halo would have seemed like witchcraft.

Halo was a great IP. It probably has potential greatness still in it, but its incredible popularity makes doing anything other than tweaking the formula a big risk. Frankly, I don't know what it is anymore. It feels like it's trying to be a few too many things right now. Is it now serious Greg Bear Sci-Fi [yawn] with a capital S? Or is it a cliche-ridden, bravado-laden, technologically advanced game of army men? I will follow it, but I don't expect reinvention. I expect familiarity. Familiarity is one of its selling points. I will play Halo, but I have a hard time imagining it being what it once was--the game that shocked me with what was possible.

I don't know what I want in Destiny, honestly, but I know I want something I haven't had before. No one wanted an MP3 player before the iPod. No one wanted a touch-screen phone before the iPhone. Someone has to anticipate what I'll want and have the guts and vision to make it for me. (And btw, Steve Jobs made the gadgets that he wanted to have--sound familar?)

I want the future. Give me magic. Astound me with what I didn't realize could be done. Bungie has always aimed high. They've hit more targets than they missed. Yeah, I played most of their non-Halo games, too, but I have to wonder how many games does it take to convince people that it's worth the price of admission just to see what they're up to? I can't relate. It's like claiming to be be a rock'n'roll fan in the 60s and not buying the new Beatles album because you heard it doesn't sound like Sgt. Pepper. Or being a patron of the Elizabethan theater and not going to the Tempest, because, you know, that Prospero dude is kind of like a wizard, and I don't dig wizards.

I mean, damn. There's no way I'll accept less than a front-row seat for what's next.

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I love my timing. Really do. Idk how I don't hit every bus when I cross the street haha.

Yeah, I admit that in the deluge of news coverage last week I can't remember what I read on news sites that were quotes and what were observations and their opinions.

So yeah, "magic" hit a sour note for me. The ME3 comparison is a good one, and does bridge that gap though I did not enjoy it much when I played it outside of a few matches with Bones.

Save the Apple talk, fanboy, I get enough of that from my co-workers :P

So I'll put you in the "Bungie" category.

You're one of my barometers Kerm- you have a level head on most things.

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Until Bungie makes a game I don't like, I will be a total Bungie fan.

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I thought about how I would explain this, listing a bunch of poorly worded and vague reasons why I am a Bungie fan and why I am extremely excited for Destiny. But at the root of all those reasons and attempts at explaining is one certain thing: Bungie makes me happy. For me that's enough.

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Halo is pretty much my favorite game series of all time. All things considered, Bungie is by far my most favorite developer, and they mean more to me than just Halo. I love Oni. I love Marathon. I've never played Myth. And I seriously, seriously can't wait for Destiny.

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Halo is pretty much my favorite game series of all time. All things considered, Bungie is by far my most favorite developer, and they mean more to me than just Halo. I love Oni. I love Marathon. I've never played Myth. And I seriously, seriously can't wait for Destiny.

Seriously?

Myth is awesome. Find a copy on Ebay, load up the updated Myth 2 engine from playmyth.com, and give it a go. You won't regret it.

Plenty of time for Destiny. It awaits. Somewhere in the heavens. Or something.

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So excited for new IP!

I look forward to seeing were this will go.

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but ended up Bungie because I liked what they were doing from an industry standpoint.

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"I don't like magic" just seems to me like a very odd position.

Everything we know about the universe seems to indicate that faster than light travel does not exist. Yet games like Halo feature this. When it needs to be explained, you get a bunch of psuedoscientific jargon.

How is this distinguishable from "magic"?

Does it matter, when your Spartan turns invisible, that the fictional reason is fictional science instead of fictional magic?

Does the writer or the OP play Mass Effect? Does it affect one's opinion of the game if "biotic powers" were suddenly called "magic"?

I'm given to wonder if this position is informed by a topic that I assume is verboten on this board...

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"I don't like magic" just seems to me like a very odd position.

Everything we know about the universe seems to indicate that faster than light travel does not exist. Yet games like Halo feature this. When it needs to be explained, you get a bunch of psuedoscientific jargon.

How is this distinguishable from "magic"?

Does it matter, when your Spartan turns invisible, that the fictional reason is fictional science instead of fictional magic?

Does the writer or the OP play Mass Effect? Does it affect one's opinion of the game if "biotic powers" were suddenly called "magic"?

I'm given to wonder if this position is informed by a topic that I assume is verboten on this board...

I've already addressed this concept in a previous post within this thread.

I am aware of the... similarities. My perception has to do with presentation. "Magic" triggers the fantasy genre in my mind. "Magic" exists in sci-fi, but it is never specifically referred to as "magic". ME3 is a good example of this.

There was a mix up between what was reported on a few journalistic websites and what Bungie has actually quoted so far. I'm sure this will happen several times. I am only human.

I personally don't like the term, "Magic".

That is not the main point of this thread.

The point of this thread was to gauge an idea on what folks here thought about regarding what the article asked: Bungie? or Halo?

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is informed by a topic that I assume is verboten on this board...

I've already addressed this concept in a previous post within this thread.

I am aware of the... similarities. My perception has to do with presentation. "Magic" triggers the fantasy genre in my mind. "Magic" exists in sci-fi, but it is never specifically referred to as "magic". ME3 is a good example of this.

So you're against genre mixing? Is Star Wars science fiction or fantasy, do you think? Or is this really just semantics?

There was a mix up between what was reported on a few journalistic websites and what Bungie has actually quoted so far. I'm sure this will happen several times. I am only human.

Sure, it's inevitable. So far I think nobody at Bungie has said "magic"-- I think IGN may have started that, but if not, it was inevitable it would. I believe the ViDoc talked about Guardians being able to wield "some of the Travelers awesome power" or some such thing, which probably means things from a gameplay perspective that are like ME's biotic powers or Bioshock's tonics and plasmids. None of which were ever really called "magic" even though they are, from a gameplay perspective, functionally inseparable from how well implemented magic systems work in games that feature them, like the Elder Scrolls series. If one doesn't enjoy RPGs with fantasy settings, that's cool, but if one did, but avoided a game because one doesn't like the word "magic" that just seems a bit odd, especially since you can easily, if you like, play a game like that while never using any magic of any kind, if one so chose.

I personally don't like the term, "Magic".

That just struck me as sort of weird. Just sayin'.

That's why I speculated that the cause was a topic banned on the forum. Is that the case? Is there a root for your dislike of magic, or at least your dislike of the word?

That is not the main point of this thread.

No, but I addressed that in the subject. And threads never go offtopic. Never.

The point of this thread was to gauge an idea on what folks here thought about regarding what the article asked: Bungie? or Halo?

I was a fan of Bungie quite awhile before Halo. I was interested in Halo first because it was Bungie, and then because of what I saw. If Bungie hadn't been the one making Halo, I don't know what it could have been, but it's very likely I might never have played it.

I'm interested in Destiny right now because it's what Bungie is doing. I like what I see so far. I suppose something might happen to lessen my interest over time, but so far that has yet to happen to me with a Bungie game since Marathon 1.

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I was a fan of Bungie quite awhile before Halo. I was interested in Halo first because it was Bungie, and then because of what I saw. If Bungie hadn't been the one making Halo, I don't know what it could have been, but it's very likely I might never have played it.

I'm interested in Destiny right now because it's what Bungie is doing. I like what I see so far. I suppose something might happen to lessen my interest over time, but so far that has yet to happen to me with a Bungie game since Marathon 1.

I feel the same, and your experience mirrors mine precisely.

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I'm not in particular a big fan of magic in a sci-fi setting either, but that's because I prefer my sci-fi hard.

I like that the game is mostly limited in scope to our solar system, that's a touch more realistic, but the FTL space fighters, the space-magic, etc. just tickle me the wrong way.

I think the space magic and soft science fiction will grant a lot more creative freedom - you're not after all restrained by the laws of our universe as we know it, but it may come at the cost of internal consistency. Time after time I find this to be the case when magic comes into play, because it is 'You can do anything' power and that is a very easy tool to misuse.

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I'm not sure those ships have FTL. It could even be like in Ender's Game where they can get to 99% of light speed but can't actually reach it or surpass it. Also many people that watched Firefly thought that Serenity had a light-speed drive because of the way it lit up when it "rabbited" but really that was the cool effects of the engine

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I'm not in particular a big fan of magic in a sci-fi setting either, but that's because I prefer my sci-fi hard.

I like that the game is mostly limited in scope to our solar system, that's a touch more realistic, but the FTL space fighters, the space-magic, etc. just tickle me the wrong way.

I think the space magic and soft science fiction will grant a lot more creative freedom - you're not after all restrained by the laws of our universe as we know it, but it may come at the cost of internal consistency. Time after time I find this to be the case when magic comes into play, because it is 'You can do anything' power and that is a very easy tool to misuse.

Generally I tend to agree, but I allow for leeway where it's set up properly. After all, any sufficiently advanced technology seems like magic. I'd be willing to admit that whatever unusual "powers" the Travel assigns to Guardians would seem to the less-advanced human culture like magic without actually contravening the laws of physics as they exist in the Destiny universe.

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I was about to agree with you about magic, but then I realized that I love Harry Potter. But the magic isn't really the point. It's a means to an end, the end being a great story and true, sincere characters. I do know that there are a lot of times when the mythology gets in the way of that and the author/developer/whatever thinks that worldbuilding is the end of a story rather than the beginning. That's the thing I don't like.

I can easily buy something very unusual and outlandish about the world you're setting your story in. But give me a reason to. If Destiny is full of ancient mythology and gods and junk that I typically have no interest in at all, I will care if it has a cathartic point. I absolutely won't care if it's just there for the sake of "worldbuilding".

That's where I draw the line, anyway.

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I realized this after my disappointment with Halo 4.

Destiny will be the proving grounds, though. Maybe I'm really a fan of neither :(

But I'm very optimistic :)

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