What are the characteristics of a perfect video game boss? In my opinion:

1. Challenging - Bosses need to be harder than regular enemies.
2. Intensity - Bosses need to provide a challenge that is intense, rather than mundane.
3. Novelty - Bosses should have unique properties that make them fun to fight.
4. Crescendo - The intensity of the challenge should increase throughout the fight, with the maximum at the moment you kill a boss.

If you have these four things, then you have a great boss in my opinion.

But why? Well, I've always seen bosses as sort of the climax to a level or segment. Like in a movie, everything builds to that one moment, releases, then comes down. And just like we love seeing films whose intensity increases throughout to the climax, I think most players enjoy having a steadily increasing intensity throughout their play session.

This has been done in simple ways for a long time. The easiest way is the make a boss get quicker and more powerful the closer to death he gets. The majority of arcade games did this, and it's a simple and fairly effective way to up the intensity and add a little tension.

Better still, were the games that gave bosses various forms or changed up their attack patterns. As the boss is damaged, it switches to new attacks that are harder, ramping up until it's nearly dead. Cave shooters were really good at this, and bosses had notches on their lifebars dividing it into 3,4, or sometimes 5 segments. After each segment was depleted, parts of the boss would explode, and it would start new attacks or change forms, each more powerful than the last.

Most boss fights end up being relatively short, under 3 minutes. This helps keep things intense, since if things drag on too long it can lead to boredom. However, short length is not necessarily a requirement for a good boss, so long as the boss keeps you on your toes throughout. See Seven force in Alien Soldier / Gunstar heroes.

Destiny has major problems with intensity and crescendo. Boss fights in Destiny are not intense, seeing as how they do not change forms, and there is little penalty for dying. There is no Crescendo since the attacks are the same throughout, and the stakes are never raised.

I think Bungie can keep the long boss fights, so long as the bosses change into tougher and tougher forms as time goes on. Let's say you want Sepkis Prime to take 10 minutes for a properly geared fireteam. If he had 5 segments to his lifebar, that's 2 minutes a segment, which is kind of the sweet spot. Provided he have 5 different, ever tougher attack patterns / forms, then a 10 minutes fight could be very enjoyable.

I realize not a lot can be majorly changed when the game has to go gold in less than 2 months, but since content is going to be added for ten years, I think Bungie should prioritize more intense multiform bosses.

You want that steadily increasing rush. You want your player to say 'Yeah! I did it!' not 'Finally…'

I agree on all points, but this in particular is crucial:

I think Bungie can keep the long boss fights, so long as the bosses change into tougher and tougher forms as time goes on. Let's say you want Sepkis Prime to take 10 minutes for a properly geared fireteam. If he had 5 segments to his lifebar, that's 2 minutes a segment, which is kind of the sweet spot. Provided he have 5 different, ever tougher attack patterns / forms, then a 10 minutes fight could be very enjoyable.

I've always been a fan of bosses that require a few steps in the process of taking them down; be it dropping shields, or peeling back the armor over the glowing red spot, etc. Environmental hazards that do more damage than you can manage with your weapons are always fun, too.

The key (for me, at least) is that it needs to be a dynamic experience. You don't get the crescendo effect if you aren't kept on your toes for the duration of the battle, not knowing what to expect next. It's why I've never agreed with the argument a lot of people make about hating that boss fights take you out of the normal conventions of the established gameplay. That's the whole point, after all.

~m

I'm guessing Cody got his subject from here. (Edge Online)

Sepkis Prime seemed like a great introduction to the idea of a proper Boss in Destiny. If this is one of the first of many Strikes in the game I imagine we'll see a variety of more elaborate bosses, or I at least hope so.

I do agree with your suggestions for good bosses though.

What are the characteristics of a perfect video game boss? In my opinion:

1. Challenging - Bosses need to be harder than regular enemies.
2. Intensity - Bosses need to provide a challenge that is intense, rather than mundane.
3. Novelty - Bosses should have unique properties that make them fun to fight.
4. Crescendo - The intensity of the challenge should increase throughout the fight, with the maximum at the moment you kill a boss.

If you have these four things, then you have a great boss in my opinion.

Agreed, for whatever reason I keep thinking back to Banjo-Kazooie for my favorite boss fights. They were unique fun, and at least the final boss was challenging (especially because it would get easier or harder depending on if you answered the quiz show questions right mid boss fight.)

But I do disagree on this:

Most boss fights end up being relatively short, under 3 minutes. This helps keep things intense, since if things drag on too long it can lead to boredom. However, short length is not necessarily a requirement for a good boss, so long as the boss keeps you on your toes throughout. See Seven force in Alien Soldier / Gunstar heroes.

All boss fights I remember loving the most were long epics where error lead to losing all the time investment (usually 20 or so minutes). To the point where you begin to lose hope that you are capable at defeating them.

Example: Darth Malak at the end of KOTOR, he was tougher than my dude and I used most my resources just to get to that point. Head on attack would be suicide, my only option was to run. So I did. I used force speed to out run him as we ran in circles around the bridge of the ship. occasionally stopping to chip his health. This wasn't a super way to take down a boss, but I had a blast and is one of my most cherished memories of a final boss. It also added to his epicness, as just running away was the only way to face him and win.

Anyway, I like long boss battles where my heart is racing.

The only other thought I had is I love when a boss who is too powerful/scary to get close to goes into a vulnerable state where you have to get close. Adds tension that at any moment he could come to and clonk you to the bonkersphere. So in that respect, at least for the titan, the spider tank has that.

I'm guessing Cody got his subject from here. (Edge Online)

Believe it or not I had not seen that article.

The term boss rush is common, usually meaning a mode where you just fight bosses, but I made a pun on the high you get while fighting good ones.

Good thoughts and ideas, and arguments, and a nice, discussable tone. :)

Your post reminds me of Matt LeBlanc's excellent essay on the Tools to Create Dramatic game Dynamics.

http://www.cs.vassar.edu/_media/courses/cs389-201303/leblanc-drama-tools.pdf?id=courses%3Acs389-201303%3Aschedule&...

It's more about multiplayer games (both digital and non), but if you treat a boss battle as an asymmetric contest between the player and the AI I think it makes sense.

He has two kind of key points, one is the same as you hit on, that you want the excitement and challenge to build and crescendo right at the end of the fight.

More importantly, he talks about Uncertainty, which is something that sepiks prime and the devil walker seem to lack. Once a player learns the patterns, the fights aren't uncertain anymore. The contest is never close because the player always knows what's next and how to expect it.

New phases creates uncertainty, but I get the impression that raids are designed for multiple play throughs (Public events too, especially since PE's have medal rankings). Instead I'd like to see some significant randomization, or procedurality to the bosses behavior. Or alternatively, more complicated systems that gird what they do and when they do it. That's what I'd prefer over static stages, as those are the kinds of games I like to make.

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Boss Rush or Rush Boss?

Destiny has major problems with intensity and crescendo. Boss fights in Destiny are not intense, seeing as how they do not change forms, and there is little penalty for dying. There is no Crescendo since the attacks are the same throughout, and the stakes are never raised.

Unless I'm incorrect, you have not played the entire game yet.

Boss Battle! Catch Phrase!(drink diet Dr. Pepper)
I realize, that with time and exposure, just about anything can be boiled down into a 'trope'. That is sort of unfair, sarcastic, and usually in a way de-values the topic at hand or patronizes the argument. I get that, but...

There are no rules set into stone. Why do games have to follow the pre-prescribed notions that have come before it and become stereotypical through time?

On that one level, Headed down the Boss Corridor, towards the Boss Room? When a Big Bad, Advancing Boss of Doom shows up? Don't worry! In case of Fight, Break Glass. Attack its weakest point, it turns red. Go For The Eye for massive damage. Scripted battle ensues. etc. etc. [ad infinitum ad nauseam]

Unless I'm incorrect, you have not played the entire game yet.

Not unless Bungie wants to hire me to make another award winning, highly rated strategy guide :-p

I swear, I typed the thread up twice to make sure I didn't do that.

Then I did it.

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The first thing I thought of was this: