Hi all, not sure how many of you listen to Guardian Radio but they brought up an interesting point/concern in the latest podcast (Ep. 66) regarding Fireteams being locked to three people in strikes, raids etc but also explore mode.

Basically, the concern is that you are not able to team up with more than two friends even in the explore mode, which is strange given that explore mode instances can actually hold more than 3 players - random other people are matchmade into your instance after all.

The scenario given is three friends are already in a fireteam, exploring in Old Russia and I want to join them. I cannot join them through their fireteam because they already have three people. I go into explore mode, hoping that I'm placed into their instance, or that I might get matchmade into it - this doesn't happen, or is extremely unlikely. How do I join them and explore with them? I can't. Which is kind of weird considering the game is still matchmaking random other people in and out of my friends' instance anyway.

I understand strikes etc likely have a cap of 3 or six because they've been designed that way; but explore mode? That is designed for more than three people...but not more than three friends it seems.

TL;DR - 3 people in a fireteam, a fourth person cannot join and stay with them even in explore mode (which is actually designed to be able to have have more than 3 people in one instance).

What do you guys think? Is this a problem? Have Bungie considered this?

Basically, the concern is that you are not able to team up with more than two friends even in the explore mode, which is strange given that explore mode instances can actually hold more than 3 players - random other people are matchmade into your instance after all.

I brought this point up in the Alpha. While it's far easier to find two friends to play with, the fact that it's removing the almost-standard four-player co-op from focus really knocks things out of our comfort zone. You'd think that they'd either be able to replace one of the randoms in your game in favor of a fourth, or they'd have matchmaking prioritize grouping you with friends.

I can see that being a problem if 8 coordinated people that know each other end up in a single game, though. The four-man fireteam is something that I really hope they're able to patch in, even if we have to wait for a fourth class to be added.

I understand strikes etc likely have a cap of 3 or six because they've been designed that way; but explore mode? That is designed for more than three people...but not more than three friends it seems.

Bungie hasn't explicitly stated that explore mode would be limited to three, have they? Might just be an Alpha thing to test as many different connections as possible, but that's just me being an optimist...

What do you guys think? Is this a problem? Have Bungie considered this?

Nobody who interviews them ever asks important things like this, it's just whining about PS4 getting more attention or asking when the Beta releases...

I do wonder about this. I was Lone Wolfing it throughout the Alpha, curious how those with beefier PSN friends lists managed.

TL;DR - 3 people in a fireteam, a fourth person cannot join and stay with them even in explore mode (which is actually designed to be able to have have more than 3 people in one instance).

What do you guys think? Is this a problem? Have Bungie considered this?

They have most certainly considered this. They think about little else.

3 seems to be the number they've settled on, and do it consistently. They seem to view it as the ideal party size, and it likely won't change.

In explore mode, you're meeting other groups, because of the instance structure I'd say it kind of unlikely [at launch] that you'd run into groups or friends you already know. It being strangers adds to the "living world" / connected vibe.

It's personally not a problem for me, because I think if my "first pic" group was already full, then I can join up with some fun DBO/HBO/HaloGAF/DestinyGAF peeps :-).

And hey, if it's someone I don't really know yet, it's a chance to make a new friend.

Bungie hasn't explicitly stated that explore mode would be limited to three, have they?

Yeah:
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=115321786&postcount=1557

If raids can have up to 6, I don't see why explore couldn't. I guess you could just load up a raid (assuming there's one on each location) and then head off in whatever direction you want.

I guess you could just load up a raid (assuming there's one on each location) and then head off in whatever direction you want.

If Raids work like large-scale Strikes, you won't be able to, since Strikes close off access to other areas, it seems.

- No text -

It's personally not a problem for me, because I think if my "first pic" group was already full, then I can join up with some fun DBO/HBO/HaloGAF/DestinyGAF peeps :-).

You're saying we're not your first pick. [pouts]

Heh, actually I'm very luck to have my first pics be from these wonderful groups of people, especially the ones I've met at college and brought onto GAF.

I guess you could just load up a raid (assuming there's one on each location) and then head off in whatever direction you want.

If Raids work like large-scale Strikes, you won't be able to, since Strikes close off access to other areas, it seems.

Right. Whenever you see that vignetting around the edges of the screen, that means you entered an instanced area and can't go back.

Thanks to both for the clarification. I didn't play the alpha.

Still, I would like to know what limitations there would be to opening up explore to 6 players. I would like to think of it as a slower more relaxed mode where friends could meet up and just goof off or play with the sandbox. Maybe even engage in exploration parties to get to the tough to reach or hidden areas of the maps. To me, having more people in the party sounds like more fun. Plus you get to have more coordinated experiences in the public areas.

What happens when someone leaves my team in explore mode?

I assume the below wouldn't work

I don't know enough of the mechanics of inviting friends and meeting etc in explore mode but what about something like this:

1. I invite Cody.
2. Cody joins me in explore mode.
3. Cody leaves the team, but is still nearby in explore mode, I can still see him.
4. We each repeat these 4 steps.

I'm guessing though, that leaving a team splits your instance / pops you out to your ship in space.

It does seem like they have gone with a base 3 system, which since I have a regular group of 4 is going to make someone the odd man out lots of times. We may end up limited to the larger game modes to ensure everyone is together, and that is kind of a bummer because we've often talked about how cool it would be if we could just wander around in Skyrim with all our characters together, and were hoping Destiny would fulfill that wish.

1. I invite Cody.
2. Cody joins me in explore mode.
3. Cody leaves the team, but is still nearby in explore mode, I can still see him.
4. We each repeat these 4 steps.

This would probably work if you stayed in the same area, but as soon as you move through a load-zone* you'll lose each other.

*load-zones still exist in Destiny, they're just very well hidden. If you speed around on a Sparrow enough you can still trigger 'loading...' messages.

1. I invite Cody.
2. Cody joins me in explore mode.
3. Cody leaves the team, but is still nearby in explore mode, I can still see him.
4. We each repeat these 4 steps.

This would probably work if you stayed in the same area, but as soon as you move through a load-zone* you'll lose each other.

*load-zones still exist in Destiny, they're just very well hidden. If you speed around on a Sparrow enough you can still trigger 'loading...' messages.

yeah, unfortunately it doesn't work like that.

So that causes the problem that if you have four or so friends online, you cannot simply split into two fireteams of two and go exploring around old russia (or whereever) like that. Both fireteams will simply be in separate instances, with no way to merge into the same instance.

Also, I just realised this means you can only bring a fireteam of up to 3 people into Cruicible matches. No matter what the player cap is for that mode, everyone else is mtachmade into the game. I.e. Control is 6 vs 6, but you can only bring in your fireteam of 3; you cannot choose who fills out the rest of your team. What does this mean for competitive teams?

This whole issue seems very contradictory to Bungie's oft-promoted philosophy that Destiny is designed to be more fun with friends.

Worry not! We actually had 6 person fireteam matchmaking in the Alpha earlier this month for the 6v6 Crucible playlist.