I’d like to echo comments from others elsewhere that the 10 day (minus 2 days for maintenance) beta duration is unacceptably short. Bungie: you spent months advertising the beta as a perk of pre-ordering. Those of us who are familiar with betas in the world of massively-multiplayer online games are used to betas that last several weeks if not months, and so it was not unreasonable to expect something similar.

The betas for the various World of Warcraft expansions lasted between 4 and 8 months. Guild Wars and its sequel had multiple beta ‘weekend’ events, to ensure that people could play en masse during free time (since midweek will rule out a lot of people). Diablo III had a beta that lasted roughly 8 months.

Even ignoring games from other companies, the precedent from your own company is for a substantially longer period, and this for games with a much narrower scope: both the Halo 3 and Reach betas were multiplayer-only, and lasted 4 and (nearly) 3 weeks respectively. Access to both were admittedly perks of buying other games, but at least with those on general release fans could decide if the game was actually worth buying alone.

Two things stand out when looking at how Bungie has conducted itself in the marketing ramp-up for Destiny: a notable PlayStation bias (particularly for PS4), and a strong encouragement to pre-order in order to get into the beta. Given the former, it stands to reason that a large number of Bungie fans will have purchased a new PS4 exclusively to play the Destiny Beta. I myself was about to do the same, but have held off after hearing rumours of the short beta duration.

This is unacceptably fan-hostile behaviour; you’re taking your most loyal customers and essentially asking: how desperate are you? Well here’s my answer: I’m not that desperate. I’ve cancelled my pre-order and I’ll wait to hear how good the game is after it’s on general release.

Throughout the entire run-up to Destiny’s release, I’ve felt like Bungie has been evasive, manipulative and — frankly — arrogant in its dialogue with fans (somebody wake me when Deej learns how to answer a straight question) and this is just the cherry on the cake. I have to assume you’ve got a good game in there somewhere, but this is not the way to go about selling it.

Thank you for saying this!

It bugs me to no end that the Beta is only available during San Diego Comic Con for the xbox systems. I won't even get to participate now. This pre-order perk has turned into a horrible joke.

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So many people are being unreasonable. You are not owed anything when you buy the game except the game. When the game releases, and you pay for it, you will have it. This massive culture around being rewarded with little trinkets and other nonsense for preordering is unhealthy. You're buying the finished game.

Bungie never promised how long the beta was, what it would include, or when it would be. It's a perk, like you said yourself. The final game will be improved, and without a time limit. If the beta is anything like the alpha, you'll have seen all there is to see by day two anyway. This entire thing is just a method for Destiny to have record breaking pre-order numbers for a new IP so Activision can brag about it, which they've already done.

It is not a betrayal. You're getting what you paid for. Anything extra, like getting to play the game before the release date, is icing on the cake. It's not worth getting mad over.

So many people are being unreasonable. You are not owed anything when you buy the game except the game. When the game releases, and you pay for it, you will have it. This massive culture around being rewarded with little trinkets and other nonsense for preordering is unhealthy. You're buying the finished game.

Bungie never promised how long the beta was, what it would include, or when it would be. It's a perk, like you said yourself. The final game will be improved, and without a time limit. If the beta is anything like the alpha, you'll have seen all there is to see by day two anyway. This entire thing is just a method for Destiny to have record breaking pre-order numbers for a new IP so Activision can brag about it, which they've already done.

It is not a betrayal. You're getting what you paid for. Anything extra, like getting to play the game before the release date, is icing on the cake. It's not worth getting mad over.

I'm more concerned about what parts of the DLC are locked behind timed exclusives

I agree that we are paying for a finished game. But when it's hyped for months on end about this great pre-order bonus where we get access to the beta and then have it be such a short time frame (no Alpha & late start for Beta) on the xbox family it's just extremely disappointing.

Indeed. What's actually happening is one set of people buy the game and get the whole game while a second set buy the game and get the whole game... sometime next year.

I was replying specifically about the beta. Exclusive content of any form in a multiplatform game sucks. I'm getting it on PS4 and my brother is getting it on Xbone and I don't want to see him upset that I'll have something he won't. However, this has been going on with Activision's biggest games for years, and I kind of expected it.

I don't get the short duration either. One weekend during the summer? That's pretty terrible timing. I'll have a chance to play for maybe a few hours on the night of the 24th.

I just can't really comprehend the marketing campaign for this game. I was really excited about the concept and setting, but then the months dragged on and we learned nothing. Bungie told us to get excited, and we did, and then it kind of dropped off because there wasn't really much to sustain it. Then there were some big reveals, which still didn't tell us much about the game. Then there was an alpha, which people seemed to generally enjoy but wasn't that exciting to watch. "You have to play it to really get it." Sure, that seems reasonable. Now I'm barely even going to get to do that.

I just wanted to try it on 360 before making any console decision. I bought two consoles really only for Halo - I don't even play other games. The first time I ever played Halo it sold me, and I figured Destiny would probably be the same given it's creators. Maybe that will still happen. But I'm a lot more skeptical now. I don't feel cheated or anything - I can just cancel my preorder after the beta. It's just that it sure seems like Bungie keeps whiffing on this "selling the game" stuff.

To believe that the beta access is a trivial thing requires quite a selective perception of how Bungie has marketed this game. The beta was the carrot and, as you point out, record pre-orders was the prize they were seeking for their paymasters.

You can't make too many assumptions about how long a beta will be, but I hope what the examples I posted demonstrates is what is considered reasonable; if you consider 8 months at one end of the scale and 3-4 weeks at the other, what is your view of a 10 day period only including a single weekend?

Edit: In fact, I can't think of any game that has been 'in beta' for a period this short before. If you can think of any examples I'd love to hear about them.

8 months was never reasonable for the Destiny beta. I was hoping for something closer to the Reach beta which ran what? Like half a month?

Two Weeks would be nice. The xbox beta is during SDCC so I won't get to join in the fun.

I think part of it is that there won't be that much to do. Bungie has been really worried about spoilers of any form getting out, which may have influenced the amount of content in the beta, and subsequently affected its length.

Oh, absolutely. I never expected 8 months, but given the nature of the product I expected at least a month, maybe more. The usual meaning of beta is a product still actively in development, where you make changes based on customer feedback. The term here clearly just means: pre-release demo. But if they'd advertised pre-orders with “Free: 10 day pre-release demo access!” I'm sure the reaction would have been far less enthusiastic.

Not wanting content spoiled is a legitimate concern, but you'll hardly prevent that by making the beta shorter; you need to place barriers in the way (which is what Bungie did with the alpha anyway).

Same for me, leave on the 22nd and arrive back home on the 28th. Was hoping to at least get a couple hours in on the 22nd with it. Or even a few hours of the early morning of the 23rd before my flight.

Bungie never promised how long the beta was, what it would include, or when it would be. It's a perk, like you said yourself. The final game will be improved, and without a time limit. If the beta is anything like the alpha, you'll have seen all there is to see by day two anyway.

This is where i have to totally disagree. Almost everyone i heard from that played the alpha said that they were finding new areas/secrets/loot/dialogue all the way into the waning hours of gameplay, and the devs have continued to stress just how much more content we can expect in the Beta - pair that with the fact that (This is not aimed at you) normal people like probably all of us on these forums have these tricky things called lives that include things like jobs, spouses, and other responsibilities that prohibit us from spending every waking moment of 3 measly days playing the long-awaited Destiny Beta.

I agree that people shouldn't feel entitled, and i think it's silly that people are considering not even purchasing what is almost sure to be the best game of the year because of this - BUT - I think folks are TOTALLY justified in being pissed off and feeling like they have been slapped in the face by Bungie... I look at it like this: Imagine if you were childhood best friends with a current mega-star, and in your long-time early life friendship with with this person before they were famous, you were their primary source of unconditional love and support, driving them places, always front row, lending them money to get started etc. Now imagine that person finally hits it big, and realizes they don't need you anymore, and gives you the middle finger and tells you they have new friends now... that doesn't feel great does it? I'm pretty sure that's a close to accurate description of how a lot of long time XBOX playing Bungie fans are feeling right now, and you, as well as the entire company of Bungie needs to recognize and be more sensitive to that.

- III

You are not owed anything when you buy the game except the game. When the game releases, and you pay for it, you will have it.*

*some exclusions will apply, including, but not limited to: release date, alpha access, pre-beta access, beta access, skins, gametypes, missions, pre-DLC, DLC, etc, etc, etc.

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In some ways this is worse. Back then they weren't selling a Mac version with less content than an Xbox version. They weren't showering one side with exclusives while taking both side's money. Like someone else said, it might be better to just have the entire game be exclusive. At least that way you'd know that you won't have content cut off or delayed because you made the wrong choice.

BUT - I think folks are TOTALLY justified in being pissed off and feeling like they have been slapped in the face by Bungie... I look at it like this: Imagine if you were childhood best friends with a current mega-star, and in your long-time early life friendship with with this person before they were famous, you were their primary source of unconditional love and support, driving them places, always front row, lending them money to get started etc. Now imagine that person finally hits it big, and realizes they don't need you anymore, and gives you the middle finger and tells you they have new friends now... that doesn't feel great does it? I'm pretty sure that's a close to accurate description of how a lot of long time XBOX playing Bungie fans are feeling right now, and you, as well as the entire company of Bungie needs to recognize and be more sensitive to that.

Not even close.

The only reason Xbox users got front row was because they were the only ones the crazy, controlling, manager Microsoft let in the door.

Now they finally get a new manager, and the manager is telling Bungie to give the front seats to the PlayStation people that have been dying to see Bungie play for more than a decade.

Xbox users still get a seat - a really good seat - just not 'the best.' And if you put on a PlayStation hat instead of an Xbox hat, the new manager will still let you sit in the front row anyway!

In some ways this is worse. Back then they weren't selling a Mac version with less content than an Xbox version. They weren't showering one side with exclusives while taking both side's money. Like someone else said, it might be better to just have the entire game be exclusive. At least that way you'd know that you won't have content cut off or delayed because you made the wrong choice.

I definitely see where you are coming from, but at the same time when the Bungie did come out and tell us that Halo would come out for Mac, I at least didn't know if we would get the sequels on Mac or not. The messaging really wasn't any clearer than it is now. Hell, I'm pretty sure they didn't even announce a release date for Mac until significantly later.

I’ve cancelled my pre-order and I’ll wait to hear how good the game is after it’s on general release.

Don't you already have your Beta code? I've had mine registered at B.net since they were first available.

What good does refusing to play the Beta do now?

I’d like to echo comments from others elsewhere that the 10 day (minus 2 days for maintenance) beta duration is unacceptably short. Bungie: you spent months advertising the beta as a perk of pre-ordering. Those of us who are familiar with betas in the world of massively-multiplayer online games are used to betas that last several weeks if not months, and so it was not unreasonable to expect something similar.

The betas for the various World of Warcraft expansions lasted between 4 and 8 months.

You were honestly expecting a three week to eight month long beta for this game, when we knew there was only a maximum of ten weeks between the start of the beta and the full launch (assuming the beta had started in June). As it is, there are only six weeks between them. At some point you're talking about a demo, and not a beta. If anyone actually expects Bungie to be able to incorporate the feedback they get from the beta into the commercial product, how can they do that while still simultaneously supporting the old beta version and the new commercial version? Or do you expect updates during the beta, updates that would lock you out of playing until you download them?

I think people's outrage is starting to affect their abilities to do math...

In some ways this is worse. Back then they weren't selling a Mac version with less content than an Xbox version. They weren't showering one side with exclusives while taking both side's money. Like someone else said, it might be better to just have the entire game be exclusive. At least that way you'd know that you won't have content cut off or delayed because you made the wrong choice.

You, my good sir, are insane.

If there had been a Mac version of Halo 1 out day and date with the Xbox version that had as much "less content" in it as the Destiny versions for the Xbox do compared to the PS versions, then I would own exactly zero Xboxes.

In some ways this is worse. Back then they weren't selling a Mac version with less content than an Xbox version. They weren't showering one side with exclusives while taking both side's money. Like someone else said, it might be better to just have the entire game be exclusive. At least that way you'd know that you won't have content cut off or delayed because you made the wrong choice.

You, my good sir, are insane.

If there had been a Mac version of Halo 1 out day and date with the Xbox version that had as much "less content" in it as the Destiny versions for the Xbox do compared to the PS versions, then I would own exactly zero Xboxes.

???

But there wasn't.

Maybe we're misunderstanding each other? I would rather Destiny only be for Playstation and thus avoid all these silly no-access Alphas and time delayed betas than for it to be on both platforms. In the same way I think Halo was better for being just on the Xbox since there was no chance of similar mucking around with gamers.

In some ways this is worse. Back then they weren't selling a Mac version with less content than an Xbox version. They weren't showering one side with exclusives while taking both side's money. Like someone else said, it might be better to just have the entire game be exclusive. At least that way you'd know that you won't have content cut off or delayed because you made the wrong choice.

You, my good sir, are insane.

If there had been a Mac version of Halo 1 out day and date with the Xbox version that had as much "less content" in it as the Destiny versions for the Xbox do compared to the PS versions, then I would own exactly zero Xboxes.

???

But there wasn't.

Maybe we're misunderstanding each other? I would rather Destiny only be for Playstation and thus avoid all these silly no-access Alphas and time delayed betas than for it to be on both platforms. In the same way I think Halo was better for being just on the Xbox since there was no chance of similar mucking around with gamers.

I simply cannot understand this.

You think it would be better to CUT OUT XBOX PLAYERS COMPLETELY than it is to provide nearly the same game (let's be honest, the timed exclusive content is a tiny fraction of what everyone gets) to both camps?

9 vs 5 days seems like a pretty big difference... but will it, still, in a year? Will you feel behind, somehow, because you missed those four days of playing in July 2014?

I'm not saying for a minute that nobody has the right to gripe, that PlayStation owners seem to be getting the better end of the stick at this point, that there isn't a reason to be put out... i'm saying that the response in this post, that you'd rather that there simply not BE any Xbox versions, so as to avoid the butthurt we've seen today...

I guess I haven't heard a better example of 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' in all the years I've been speaking english. :)

I simply cannot understand this.

You think it would be better to CUT OUT XBOX PLAYERS COMPLETELY than it is to provide nearly the same game (let's be honest, the timed exclusive content is a tiny fraction of what everyone gets) to both camps?

9 vs 5 days seems like a pretty big difference... but will it, still, in a year? Will you feel behind, somehow, because you missed those four days of playing in July 2014?

I'm not saying for a minute that nobody has the right to gripe, that PlayStation owners seem to be getting the better end of the stick at this point, that there isn't a reason to be put out... i'm saying that the response in this post, that you'd rather that there simply not BE any Xbox versions, so as to avoid the butthurt we've seen today...

I guess I haven't heard a better example of 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' in all the years I've been speaking english. :)

Yes. I mean, maybe?

I've spent the past decade happy with my Xboxes and Halos. But I also had a clear choice. I could invest in the Xboxes and play Halo and Forza and Gears but I also clearly gave up some really neat games like Journey and The Last of Us and the Uncharteds. But it was kinda more my choice. I knew I was investing in one set of games at the expense of the other. In the same way I've chosen to be a Mac and iOS guy over Android and Windows. I gain a lot from those choices but also miss out on a lot. I've done most of my gaming on Xboxes and iOS products over the last few years while my brother has built himself up some pretty cool gaming PCs and streaming, connected Android devices. Neither of us was wrong in our choices, but we both got and missed out on certain things because of them.

Now take it forward to Destiny. I was pretty darn unhappy with the surprise Alpha. I'd been looking forward to the Beta for a long time and suddenly my seemingly sound strategy of playing the beta on my 360 and maybe thinking about a nextgen console in the fall fell apart. I feel like I missed a whole lot. I'm sure you've noticed I like writing about Destiny and I would have written the heck out of the Alpha. I would have been up on that table looking at that map. I would have walked round and round that mechanical Traveler hologram contraption. I would have been out in old Russia trying to get a feel for the way each faction fights in case it could be linked back to story. Instead I missed out on all that and watching it on streams totally isn't the same for me. I watched a couple quick videos from Beorn and left the rest alone because I can't connect or relate without actually playing it. It's like trying to watch TV in another language or something. I could have kinda seen what was going on but I wouldn't really get it.

I'm not nearly as unhappy about the beta as I was this morning. Miscounting the days it would last for Xbox at the very first got me upset, especially when added to missing the Alpha. Five days which now include both days of the weekend is better than it was first said to be. (To be clear, even Bungie's website listed the Xbox version only running through Saturday and later changed after the black and gold graphic was released.) Now, I'm more unhappy at the way all of this has been communicated. The Alpha was announced as it went live on one platform after the beta had been teased for months on all four. The Beta is shorter for one group after they already missed out on the Alpha. What constitutes the timed content and how long the time delay is still being communicated by asterisks instead of actually speaking to fans. That sucks. And of course, I also dislike the industry trend of more time exclusives, more limitation, more actual content being locked away. Maybe Destiny isn't so bad, but what about the next game? That Destiny, one of the biggest games in a while, is supporting the trend doesn't bode well for future titles from other developers.

So, when I combine my usual method of choosing one platform over another with my disappointment of the Alpha and Beta with my distaste at the industry trend of timed exclusives and the poor communication about those exclusives... then yes, I think it might be better for Destiny to be purely exclusive to one console and not the other. It would save on headaches like today. It would have given me a clear choice of what console platform I wanted to buy into.

Would it have made financial sense for Bungie, trying to develop a massive new game and once again try and sell it to only half the console population? Maybe not? Heck, maybe even probably not! I get that often business deals are the reality that get us great things like Destiny. I get that Destiny might need to sell to both halves of the console market to be profitable so Bungie can keep making us games. Would it makes sense to deprive millions of players the ability to play Destiny? Bungie is a game company, they like to make games for everyone, so no, maybe being console exclusive is not the way they wanted to go and I respect that too. But, I also have, over the past decade, very much enjoyed the stability and ease of use and assuredness of knowing what I am and am not getting when I choose a platform. Yeah, it sounds kinda awful to say I wish that either the Playstation or Xbox populations didn't get Destiny so the other half would have an easier time of it, but that's the way things have been for a long long time! And it largely worked! Of course I wouldn't want Destiny to be taken away from either side like Halo was taken away from the Mac users. But if Destiny had only been developed for Xbox or Playstation I do think it might have been less problematic.

This morning I did get overly upset, I was even a bit of a jerk especially when I usually try and stay level headed. I regret that, I really do. But I don't think I'm doing the "cutting off my nose to spite my face" thing here. At least, not completely...?

In some ways this is worse. Back then they weren't selling a Mac version with less content than an Xbox version. They weren't showering one side with exclusives while taking both side's money. Like someone else said, it might be better to just have the entire game be exclusive. At least that way you'd know that you won't have content cut off or delayed because you made the wrong choice.

I have to absolutely disagree here, as someone who has frequently not been able to play the games I want because they weren't available for a system I owned. I'll take this over that, for sure.

Maybe we're misunderstanding each other? I would rather Destiny only be for Playstation and thus avoid all these silly no-access Alphas and time delayed betas than for it to be on both platforms. In the same way I think Halo was better for being just on the Xbox since there was no chance of similar mucking around with gamers.

I find the news about the Beta and timed content to be a bummer because it was Bungie Day, and don't care much in the end. I'm still very happy that I'll be able to enjoy Destiny on XB1 with my friends.

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The betas for the various World of Warcraft expansions lasted between 4 and 8 months.

And guess what? WoW is built around being shitty and having to grind making stuff take way more time than it needs to. Destiny, appears to be very much NOT THAT.

I look at it like this: Imagine if you were childhood best friends with a current mega-star, and in your long-time early life friendship with with this person before they were famous, you were their primary source of unconditional love and support, driving them places, always front row, lending them money to get started etc. Now imagine that person finally hits it big, and realizes they don't need you anymore, and gives you the middle finger and tells you they have new friends now... that doesn't feel great does it? I'm pretty sure that's a close to accurate description of how a lot of long time XBOX playing Bungie fans are feeling right now, and you, as well as the entire company of Bungie needs to recognize and be more sensitive to that.

Not really. This is a problem a lot of people have with famous folks. The admiration is one way. You might have supported someone by buying their albums / games / movies since the beginning, but they have never met you nor do they have a relationship with you. The illusory relationship is only flowing from you to them.

Bungie as an entity is not, nor has it ever been, your longtime friend. Only Claude or Miguel could possibly say that, and even that may be a stretch.

I dislike a lot of the decisions Bungie has been making in the past 6 or 7 years, but you can't take that shit PERSONALLY. It's okay to be upset, even pissed off, but it's not an attack on YOU.

Don't you already have your Beta code? I've had mine registered at B.net since they were first available.

What good does refusing to play the Beta do now?

As somebody on TSDIRC pointed out, I can use that code for any platform (not just the one I pre-ordered: PS4), but I'm away the only weekend during the beta period. Lately work commitments mean I rarely have a lot of time mid-week for games, so given the short duration I'll be lucky to get more than a couple of hours play. I may try and get that in anyway (as you say, I already have the code), but that doesn't change the fact that this feels like a bait and switch. I don't feel like rewarding such behaviour with a pre-ordered purchase to bump up their sales figures.

You were honestly expecting a three week to eight month long beta for this game, when we knew there was only a maximum of ten weeks between the start of the beta and the full launch (assuming the beta had started in June). As it is, there are only six weeks between them. At some point you're talking about a demo, and not a beta. If anyone actually expects Bungie to be able to incorporate the feedback they get from the beta into the commercial product, how can they do that while still simultaneously supporting the old beta version and the new commercial version? Or do you expect updates during the beta, updates that would lock you out of playing until you download them?

Bungie initially said the beta was starting in ‘Spring 2014’, and this was *after* they announced the September 9th release date, which naturally leaves several months for the more traditional beta period. I wouldn't go so far as to say I expected an 8 month long beta, but I certainly expected at least 6-8 weeks.

The betas for the various World of Warcraft expansions lasted between 4 and 8 months.

And guess what? <Cody slags WoW here>

Nothing new here, eh? You obviously know very little about what format the WoW betas take.

You were honestly expecting a three week to eight month long beta for this game, when we knew there was only a maximum of ten weeks between the start of the beta and the full launch (assuming the beta had started in June). As it is, there are only six weeks between them. At some point you're talking about a demo, and not a beta. If anyone actually expects Bungie to be able to incorporate the feedback they get from the beta into the commercial product, how can they do that while still simultaneously supporting the old beta version and the new commercial version? Or do you expect updates during the beta, updates that would lock you out of playing until you download them?

Bungie initially said the beta was starting in ‘Spring 2014’, and this was *after* they announced the September 9th release date, which naturally leaves several months for the more traditional beta period. I wouldn't go so far as to say I expected an 8 month long beta, but I certainly expected at least 6-8 weeks.

Maybe that was an unrealistic expectation considering no Bungie beta has lasted over four weeks?

The initial plan was probably different. I understand disappointment that we don't have longer. Maybe development didn't go as smoothly as they hoped. Maybe they need to marshall their resources to finish the game that would've been used supporting a longer beta. Who knows?

I remain in the Louis C.K. camp. I'm still amazed we got to play Halo 3 early. (One weekend for me--I had to borrow a 360.) Everything's amazing and nobody's happy.

The betas for the various World of Warcraft expansions lasted between 4 and 8 months.

And guess what? <Cody slags WoW here>

Nothing new here, eh? You obviously know very little about what format the WoW betas take.

You might not have liked the way he made the point, but the main point still stands - your original post said that you looked to WoW for beta length because you "are familiar with betas in the world of massively-multiplayer online games," but Destiny is not very much like WoW (or other MMOs) at all.

Lots of good points in all this; I wholeheartedly agree. Another point you've not mentioned as well as the fact this is potentially a system-seller, is that these games don't have cross-platform play. Splitting up all the potential players between four different platforms instead of maybe one or two worsens the experience for gamers, without really necessarily hurting Bungie so much (they can still sell to all platform customers). Particularly once a product starts to get older, network effects can be vastly more damaging when you're starting off with a smaller audience, which is more likely when a game is on more, separate platforms, than one single über-platform. Just look how long people were playing Halo 2 for!

Maybe that was an unrealistic expectation considering no Bungie beta has lasted over four weeks?

I don't think so. Both previous Bungie betas were purely to test the multiplayer components of larger products; here the ‘beta’ is for a much larger-scope game which is more comparable to an MMO than a matchmaking multiplayer-only game. If the plan was indeed to test and gather feedback, it stands to reason they'd want at least as long, if not longer, than they gave their previous betas. Instead it's substantially shorter, and given the proximity to actual release, clearly not so much about testing as about promotion.

It's a demo, just under a different name. Pure bait and switch.

Splitting up all the potential players between four different platforms instead of maybe one or two worsens the experience for gamers

Yet another thing I've been saying on here for over a year.

:-p

You might not have liked the way he made the point, but the main point still stands - your original post said that you looked to WoW for beta length because you "are familiar with betas in the world of massively-multiplayer online games," but Destiny is not very much like WoW (or other MMOs) at all.

I cited lots of different types of games actually Claude; maybe you should go re-read. Fixating on WoW and then repeating the same tired refrain 'Destiny is not an MMO' is a pretty weak straw man.

You might not have liked the way he made the point, but the main point still stands - your original post said that you looked to WoW for beta length because you "are familiar with betas in the world of massively-multiplayer online games," but Destiny is not very much like WoW (or other MMOs) at all.

I cited lots of different types of games actually Claude; maybe you should go re-read. Fixating on WoW and then repeating the same tired refrain 'Destiny is not an MMO' is a pretty weak straw man.

It's not like Guild Wars or Diablo III, either. Did I miss any other titles you mentioned?

As somebody on TSDIRC pointed out, I can use that code for any platform (not just the one I pre-ordered: PS4), but I'm away the only weekend during the beta period. Lately work commitments mean I rarely have a lot of time mid-week for games, so given the short duration I'll be lucky to get more than a couple of hours play. I may try and get that in anyway (as you say, I already have the code), but that doesn't change the fact that this feels like a bait and switch. I don't feel like rewarding such behaviour with a pre-ordered purchase to bump up their sales figures.

You should just do what I do and never ever pre-order. Just wake up at 8am, walk into the store, and buy the game. Or, go to Best Buy at midnight since there are never any lines and you can walk in and out in about 8 minutes.

Can't be enticed or disappointed by pre-order bonuses if you make a policy not to pre-order.

He mentioned the Halo betas [but you may have addressed those and I missed it].

I cited lots of different types of games actually Claude; maybe you should go re-read. Fixating on WoW and then repeating the same tired refrain 'Destiny is not an MMO' is a pretty weak straw man.

It's not like Guild Wars or Diablo III, either. Did I miss any other titles you mentioned?

I didn't cite examples of other games with open betas based on whether or not they are ‘like Destiny’; clearly there aren't that many games that are like Destiny (although one that comes to mind that I didn't mention is Planetside 2, which had a 3-month long beta). Even so, most of those games I mentioned share an awful lot of mechanics with Destiny.

In any event, the point of citing all these other games is to demonstrate what is likely to be the popularly perceived manner in which a public beta to an online-only, persistent-world game would play out. All of these games roughly match that description (except, interestingly enough, Halo 3 and Reach). So, if you take a game like World of Warcraft (or one of its expansions) with an 8-month beta as representing one end of the scale, and then Halo Reach, with its 2 and a bit week beta as another end of the scale, roughly where on this scale would you choose to put Destiny, based on the scope of the game and its similarity to others on that scale?

I think most people would say somewhere in the middle. Towards which end is debatable, but I'd argue that — particularly given the game has a much bigger scope than either Halo 3 or Reach — it would not be closer to the shorter end of the scale. What has actually happened is the beta is even shorter than the shortest example in the list. I'm fairly certain that's unprecedented for any video game with a public beta.

This fixation of ‘Destiny is not an MMO’ is a red herring; the game shares lots of mechanics with many MMOs, even if Bungie is clearly concerned that using that term might send the wrong kind of signals to their target audience. This seems by far the most plausible reason why they've done it; witness Cody's hostility above to a game he has never played, for example. Let's not cloud the issue here: the ‘beta’ is short, shorter than most would reasonably expect, and shorter than is probably necessary for it to even be considered a beta rather than a pre-release demo. That is the point I was making in the first place, and I'm puzzled why this is considered a controversial statement given all the above.

You should just do what I do and never ever pre-order. Just wake up at 8am, walk into the store, and buy the game. Or, go to Best Buy at midnight since there are never any lines and you can walk in and out in about 8 minutes.

Can't be enticed or disappointed by pre-order bonuses if you make a policy not to pre-order.

I often do, or if I do pre-order it's so I have it on release day, and that is the perk. The lesson from this example is clear: don't make allow ‘perks’ advertised for pre-ordering to influence your purchase decision, as even a company you used to admire like Bungie isn't averse to bullshitting you in order to score a pre-order sale.

Not sure why this has to be so confrontational, but it really seems like you're being obtuse when looking at the responses you're getting. You started this thread by saying that the beta was unacceptably short. (This is certainly a widely-held viewpoint, and is pretty easily argued; it's a little more than a week for some, less than a week for others, and takes place in a period where lots of people tend to be away from electronics.)

I'm pretty sure if you'd never mentioned beta periods that spanned months, nobody would have argued against you. But you did. And unless you're saying "I just mentioned those because they exist, not because they have any relevance to my argument", I'd guess that they're the ENTIRE reason people are arguing with you.

Narc is absolutely correct: with a game that has to be on store shelves in early September (which means manufacturing needs to take up a good chunk of August), the idea that the beta could last more than a couple of weeks at this point just doesn't make sense.

You can be unhappy with that - but you will get pushback when you bring in arguments like "game X had a 3 month beta, and game Y had an 8 month beta", because these facts are irrelevant here.

Closer to a demo? Probably. But I do think load balancing and a final under load check of the equipment is being done here too.

There is more of a time pressure on those users that do want to check it out. So they WILL check it out within that short time-frame rather than putting it off. This bumps up the maximum simultaneous and sustained users and allows them to...

...properly conduct their Beta Test. Which is one of scalability, networking and data.

Plus you don't get those unfortunate situations where UPS or whoever waits until the last minute to ship the game you've waited on for four plus years and... doesn't get it to you anywhere near on time.

Okay then. Glad you agree!

Yeah, that's about the only thing that this demo could be practically used for that close to release, I guess.

This seems by far the most plausible reason why they've done it; witness Cody's hostility above to a game he has never played

I played WoW on a friend's account for about 7 minutes. All the time I need to know it sucks.

I played WoW on a friend's account for about 7 minutes.

Well that's a pretty comprehensive play test there Cody, I take it back.