My beloved DBOers... We have to put a stop to this whole notion of "voting with your dollars"... I am sorry to tell you this and i don't want to be insensitive but... well, it's not like your $5 pre-order, or even your potential $60-$150 purchase is the preverbal Arkenstone amidst the mountains of treasure in Smaug's hoard inside the lost halls of Erebor...

And for those that don't get the Hobbit metaphor...

Bungie isn't going to miss your money... Not for a second... because millions upon millions of eager folks (smart folks... folks like myself) are still going to buy the crap out of this game... the Ghost Editions and Limited Editions will sell out everywhere, there will still be Pre-Order and Day One sale records broken, and this game will still be hugely well received and wildly enjoyed by billions, with or without you, my dear friends...

So here is what i propose:

JUST GET IT!!! Don't think you're being a martyr... life in the beautiful world of Destiny will undoubtably endure, and it would all be better and richer with YOU in it! I know you're frustrated about the exclusives and the Beta, and trust me, I AM TOO! It's very frustrating! (We all know that XBOXers are the best... the rest of the world just hasn't caught up yet) But let's all just take a second to humble ourselves and realize that we are not the center of the Traveller, and it's important to look at this whole thing from more objective perspectives than our own when making a final decision on a purchase... rest assured on this: Destiny WILL be a monumental game-changer franchise - don't allow your hubris to force you to miss out on it.

Also, stop it with all this "Now I wish it was just a PS exclusive" poppycock! I ought to Fist of Havoc you right in the Exotic Helmet for that kind of hogwash! That literally makes no sense and would be of no help to anybody whatsoever, so enough with the nonsense. If you want to know how i really feel about PS Exclusive games, ask me me about "The Order: 1886" and watch my face turn multiple shades of both green and red in both jealousy and rage... i look like the Christmas Tree from Hell, it really is a sight to behold...

Thanks for reading, I love you all.

- III

Hope to see you in the wild.

"No one else will boycott this game purchase, so you shouldn't either"

How many protests or strikes or hell, even petitions would never be started if people took that attitude to the things they are unhappy about.
If you want to purely consider entertainment industry examples [and that would naive in my book], think of how it was purely a petition that got Dark Souls PC to happen.
There are so many people on this planet, people are never alone in how they feel.
And fan/community opinion is important, especially to Bungie, who value that, that's why DeeJ posted it.
He didn't tell people "cut it out with the "Boycott" crap", he clearly treated people's feelings with more respect.

I'm sorry if i came across insensitive, like i said in my post, i actually empathize with everyone that's frustrated, BUT it's not nearly as big a deal as people are making it out to be which is why i still stand by the principle of what i said which is this: Destiny WILL happen with or without you, so why not make the best of it and join in?

I'm not trying to be a jerk though, so i apologize if i hurt anyone's feelings.

It is still just video games though...

I have to remind myself of that as well.

- III

P.S. the subject line was a "Mulan" reference. :)

As much as it probably is hopeless in this case, that attitude is exactly why this problem will likely never be solved in the industry.

If people would just collectively act in a few cases, publishers *could* be swayed to eliminate poor policies. Actually, the best way to encourage them to continue changing would be to purchase a product if the policy change was made, so a successful campaign wouldn't even require missing out on a game.

"An individual doesn't have an impact" is in the same line of hindrances as "it's not causing enough damage to this product to merit possibly missing this product <despite the fact that it'll keep affecting later products if nothing is done>"; it looks reasonable at the time, but it's also a reason that nothing ever gets done.

Also...

Bungie isn't going to miss your money... Not for a second... because millions upon millions of eager folks (smart folks... folks like myself) are still going to buy the crap out of this game...

...when you're making an argument, extremely condescending comments aren't going to get anyone on your side. And yeah, I'm fully aware that I have that problem sometimes, but that's some pretty blunt and easily-avoidable stuff right there.

Bungie isn't going to miss your money... Not for a second... because millions upon millions of eager folks (smart folks... folks like myself) are still going to buy the crap out of this game...

...when you're making an argument, extremely condescending comments aren't going to get anyone on your side. And yeah, I'm fully aware that I have that problem sometimes, but that's some pretty blunt and easily-avoidable stuff right there.

My friend... I think you are (through no fault of your own) grossly misunderstanding my bizarrely sarcastic humor for condescension - and for this i apologize - I am not trying to be rude at all - and even though I do continue to stand behind what i said, i'm not saying that i don't think people can make a difference - that would be silly - what i AM saying is this: IN THIS CASE, i feel that that the amount of drama that has come with the backlash from the community (which HAS included ME) about this issue has been overkill, and in this case in particular i don't see it making much of a difference because i don't see that the "punishment matches the crime" as it were. Do you feel me on that?

I personally can't quite understand how dense the backlash is over something that is free.

A lot of y'all seem to be missing some perspective on that key point: FREE.

Bungie doesn't owe Xbox gamers anything but 60 dollars worth of gaming entertainment in the form of the shipping game. Everything else should be gravy.

i don't see it making much of a difference because i don't see that the "punishment matches the crime" as it were. Do you feel me on that?

I understand the point of view. It's also incredibly counterproductive in terms of solving an industry-wide phenomenon that continues to grow worse and worse over time.

In terms of being a response to a single product, the reaction is fairly silly, particularly surrounded in knee-jerk anger. But what you said was "we have to put a stop to this whole notion of 'voting with your dollars'", which is perhaps the most self-defeating thing I've read in my entire life.

If people collectively DID vote with their wallet on these issues, massive positive change that lasts a long time across a huge number of products could be the result.

I agree with some of what you're saying... it's just not realistic or even worth it in this case - that's my point.

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I agree with some of what you're saying... it's just not realistic or even worth it in this case - that's my point.

And when will it be realistic or worth it? As I said, it's an industry-wide issue that's going to keep getting worse if nobody ever decides to put their foot down. The entire issue here is that, even though everyone agrees that it's an issue, they also always apply the "in this case" logic, even though in the grand scheme of things it would be tremendously beneficial to the consumer on-average to do something about it at some point in time. Especially since, as I said, an extremely aggressive campaign where people actually worked together (rather than telling each other to not bother voting with their wallet) could reverse policies and cause the consumer to lose nothing from the actions when they ultimately buy the much-better product anyway (at which point it's impossible to see how it wouldn't be worth it).

I personally can't quite understand how dense the backlash is over something that is free.

A lot of y'all seem to be missing some perspective on that key point: FREE.

Bungie doesn't owe Xbox gamers anything but 60 dollars worth of gaming entertainment in the form of the shipping game. Everything else should be gravy.

A. Not exactly free. Had to give some money ahead of time for a product I don't have yet.

B. Though I'm miffed about the length of the beta being so short, and thus likely not allowing me much time to play it at all (I've got family visiting from out of state that weekend :( ), I'm more concerned about...

C. DLC exclusivity after purchase. Like...though I'd be upset if they were timed, I personally think its a bit backhand to withhold content I'm paying for after I've paid for it until someone deems fit...

I dunno. I've mostly not cared about the DLC issues (despite my distaste) because no game until now has had DLC I cared to purchase. It sucks that its Bungie that has to be the company that prompts me to be upset rather than the beast that is EA, or otherwise.

By this logic, then no one should ever vote. Your vote won't make a difference, so just take it and deal with it.

I'm buying Destiny on the xbox day one because I trust them to make a good game, and I don't even know that much about the game. That doesn't change the fact that Bungie are being dicks just because they're butthurt about MS and want to stick it to them. They know that their entire fan base was on the xbox platform, yet they've gone out of their way to give another platform preferential treatment just to settle scores. I could care less about the exclusive DLC knick-knacks but the beta time-frame is an insult.

Thanks for reading, I love you all.

- III

Hope to see you in the wild.

The brothers Grim really are an internet force for good.

I agree with some of what you're saying... it's just not realistic or even worth it in this case - that's my point.

And when will it be realistic or worth it? As I said, it's an industry-wide issue that's going to keep getting worse if nobody ever decides to put their foot down. The entire issue here is that, even though everyone agrees that it's an issue, they also always apply the "in this case" logic, even though in the grand scheme of things it would be tremendously beneficial to the consumer on-average to do something about it at some point in time. Especially since, as I said, an extremely aggressive campaign where people actually worked together (rather than telling each other to not bother voting with their wallet) could reverse policies and cause the consumer to lose nothing from the actions when they ultimately buy the much-better product anyway (at which point it's impossible to see how it wouldn't be worth it).

See i agree and disagree with you here: You're correct in your assertions but incorrect in your assumptions - there have been plenty of victories won by the gaming community when the uproar was well-timed and justified: Broken Achievements fixed (Kane and Lynch, GhostBusters, etc.) Games ported or transitioned from Console to PC or vice versa (Dark Souls, Baulder's Gate, The Witcher series) Entire Genres of gaming making new Platform debuts (established DOTA games like LOL, new DOTA games like LOTR:GOME, existing MMOs like Diablo, and new MMOs like ESO) Platform alliances broken or amended (Metal Gear Solid V on XBOX, Mass Effect 3 on PS, Final Fantasy XV on XBOX), Speaking of Mass Effect 3, how about Bioware CHANGED THE ENDING of the last game in the Shephard Saga just to cater to the feedback of their forum community? Not to mention probably my favorite example: Bioware changing the entire look, feel, and play-style of one of their beloved Dragon Age Series - by using a completely different Gaming Engine for DA:I DIRECTLY due to community feedback on Combat Speed and location variety.

There most certainly is a time and a place when Community feedback is not only heard and accepted but incredibly powerful. What I have been saying and will continue to say is that what we are dealing with right now with Bungie taking PS to the Senior Prom when they've taken us XBOXers to every other High-School dance might Sting pretty bad right now, but i don't believe it's worth sharpening the pitchforks over.

- III

I agree with some of what you're saying... it's just not realistic or even worth it in this case - that's my point.

And when will it be realistic or worth it? As I said, it's an industry-wide issue that's going to keep getting worse if nobody ever decides to put their foot down. The entire issue here is that, even though everyone agrees that it's an issue, they also always apply the "in this case" logic, even though in the grand scheme of things it would be tremendously beneficial to the consumer on-average to do something about it at some point in time. Especially since, as I said, an extremely aggressive campaign where people actually worked together (rather than telling each other to not bother voting with their wallet) could reverse policies and cause the consumer to lose nothing from the actions when they ultimately buy the much-better product anyway (at which point it's impossible to see how it wouldn't be worth it).

Soooo, personally, about 5 weeks ago I made the personal vow to not buy exclusive DLC and the like until it is available to all platforms. So, for Dragon Age Inquisition, I will not buy the XBox-exclusive DLC until it is available to my PS brethren. If DLC is never made available, I will never buy it.

It's a small, tiny thing, but it's the only thing I can think of.

EDITED FOR TERRIBLE SPELLING

By this logic, then no one should ever vote. Your vote won't make a difference, so just take it and deal with it.

I'm buying Destiny on the xbox day one because I trust them to make a good game, and I don't even know that much about the game. That doesn't change the fact that Bungie are being dicks just because they're butthurt about MS and want to stick it to them. They know that their entire fan base was on the xbox platform, yet they've gone out of their way to give another platform preferential treatment just to settle scores. I could care less about the exclusive DLC knick-knacks but the beta time-frame is an insult.

Whoa there, Mr. Psychic! What numbers should I pick this week?

By this logic, then no one should ever vote. Your vote won't make a difference, so just take it and deal with it.

It pains me to know (By no fault of your own) that you know so little of me! Your interpretation of my intention here saddens me; listen - I VOTED FOR RON FREAKIN PAUL in the primaries... Change your opinion at all? I definitely know a thing or two about voting from conscience instead of logic.

I, like you (from what i'm reading) have always hated the whole notion that people don't have a voice because "the big wigs with the power win in the end" - I believe every vote counts for something, if not at all on paper, and i find it fascinating that people on here seem to keep missing my overall point and jumping to conclusions; just because I don't think that whining (the whining I MYSELF have joined in on) about the Beta length/Sony Butt-buddy stuff is pointless at this point due to the imminent Tsunami of success from Seattle that is sure to crash in on the world in September DOES NOT make me a Democracy-hating VG Nazi - I think the voice of the Gaming community has historically been very powerful in the perfect storm (Please see my examples cited in an earlier post i made to Mr. Uberfoop on this thread), but i just don't think this particular situation calls for a Coo or Mutiny.

I thank you for your thoughts, Jironimo.

- III

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I don't think it calls for a mutiny either, that's why I'm buying the game. But let's call a spade a spade and not act like what they're doing isn't bullshiv.

Sorry not following you. Who's predicting the future?

See i agree and disagree with you here: You're correct in your assertions but incorrect in your assumptions - there have been plenty of victories won by the gaming community when the uproar was well-timed and justified

There have been victories on other types of issues. What we're dealing with here is something that is always too small of an issue per-game to generate sufficient annoyance for large numbers of people to do anything about it, despite the problem being widespread.

The examples of issues you brought up were largely instances with perceived massive issues specific to particular products, which generated extremely strong uproar in an incredibly widespread way.

(I wouldn't claiming that community feedback as a general thing has no impact.)

I personally can't quite understand how dense the backlash is over something that is free.

A lot of y'all seem to be missing some perspective on that key point: FREE.

Bungie doesn't owe Xbox gamers anything but 60 dollars worth of gaming entertainment in the form of the shipping game. Everything else should be gravy.

A. Not exactly free. Had to give some money ahead of time for a product I don't have yet.

Nope. Amazon hasn't charged me a cent yet.

B. Though I'm miffed about the length of the beta being so short, and thus likely not allowing me much time to play it at all (I've got family visiting from out of state that weekend :( ), I'm more concerned about...

C. DLC exclusivity after purchase. Like...though I'd be upset if they were timed, I personally think its a bit backhand to withhold content I'm paying for after I've paid for it until someone deems fit...

As I understand it, some aspect of the DLC will be timed exclusives, but the expansion packs still have content, presumably the core content, so the question is really do you trust Bungie to deliver enough value to justify your purchase?

I dunno. I've mostly not cared about the DLC issues (despite my distaste) because no game until now has had DLC I cared to purchase. It sucks that its Bungie that has to be the company that prompts me to be upset rather than the beast that is EA, or otherwise.

You care because you love. I get that. I don't share in your upset, but I get it.

Sorry not following you. Who's predicting the future?

You seem to have read Bungie's mind.

Ah, gotcha. Well no I don't have to read their minds, what they're doing says a lot more.

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Sorry GrimBrother but that mentality is not one I can agree with. If I were choosing to boycott Destiny (I'm not, but I will say I'm not hugely excited for it and haven't preordered it yet) it wouldn't be to 'martyr' myself, but because I did not want to participate in something I viewed as immoral.

I didn't watch Sochi, not because it made a difference to the BBC or the IOC, but because I did not want to participate in something I disagreed with. That's the point of a boycott.

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Sorry GrimBrother but that mentality is not one I can agree with. If I were choosing to boycott Destiny (I'm not, but I will say I'm not hugely excited for it and haven't preordered it yet) it wouldn't be to 'martyr' myself, but because I did not want to participate in something I viewed as immoral.

I didn't watch Sochi, not because it made a difference to the BBC or the IOC, but because I did not want to participate in something I disagreed with. That's the point of a boycott.

There is a huge difference between Sochi or Qatar, and getting exclusives. The former are matters of human rights, the latter is just Bungie being stupid.

Sometimes stupidity isn't worth a boycott, just a calling out.

Also, if enough people do something like that, it can make a difference. No one believes that their money alone is making a dent, but that's hardly the point.

If you read further into the discussion you will see that i am also a firm believer in the principle of voting from your conscience, i was talking very simply about this particular community's response to this particular issue and apparently everyone on the forum thought that meant that i hate freedom...

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I personally can't quite understand how dense the backlash is over something that is free.

I guess the next time Facebook pulls something shady and your personal details are exposed or your privacy violated you can;t complain, because hey, Facebook is free.

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I guess the next time Facebook pulls something shady and your personal details are exposed or your privacy violated you can;t complain, because hey, Facebook is free.

Exxxactly!

I agree Brother.

The choice should be easy between:

-Holding on to your anger and punishing only yourself by not buying the game.

-Letting go of your anger and enjoying a great game.

That said its very easy for me to say, I'm on PS4.

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Sometimes stupidity isn't worth a boycott, just a calling out.

Expressing negative opinions on this forum doesn't usually work out so well.

Sometimes stupidity isn't worth a boycott, just a calling out.

Expressing negative opinions on this forum doesn't usually work out so well.

Elaborate.

Ah, gotcha. Well no I don't have to read their minds, what they're doing says a lot more.

Too bad there are other more likely conclusions; like trying to break in with a group people that have next to no Bungie experience. Bungie is also, you know, a business, and making decisions based on "settling scores" doesn't usually lead to a successful business like they have, or talented amazing people flocking to work there.

But hey.

rage, rage against the dying of gaming equality

(a bit dramatic, a bit ham-fisted, maybe, but it says exactly what I want to say)