So I've noticed that occasionally a message will pop up on the bottom of the screen showing that Im on my way to a given Grimoire card (2500 kills, 1000 Dregs killed etc.)

Is there a way to see that in-game or on Bnet somewhere? I've had a look at the Grimoire section on Bnet but its not working great for me, so its possible Ive missed it.

Would be nice to see what my nearest milestone is to have something to work towards.

I'm wondering the same thing. Can't find anywhere to check them out in game, and on the site it's not working.

If the only way to access them is on B.net then they are just as retarded as 343 and the terminals.

Fingers crossed...

I'm wondering the same thing. Can't find anywhere to check them out in game, and on the site it's not working.

You're not missing much. Most of the cards are redacted, anyway.

If the only way to access them is on B.net then they are just as retarded as 343 and the terminals.

For some reason I don't mind these nearly as much as the terminals. Maybe it's the format...

For some reason I don't mind these nearly as much as the terminals. Maybe it's the format...

Yeah I feel the same way, I'd kind of rather read them on my phone or computer than on my TV.

For some reason I don't mind these nearly as much as the terminals. Maybe it's the format...

Yeah I feel the same way, I'd kind of rather read them on my phone or computer than on my TV.

Why?

How is that acceptable to you while the terminals were not?

It shouldn't be. You shouldn't have to access in-game content on an out-game system. It's an extra unnecessary step and breaks immersion.

Just curious as to why this is ok if Bungie is doing it, but not other studios.

(This is keeping in mind that this may all change by the time the game is out, and there will be a place in game to consume them.)

I'll answer. I explained this a long time ago, but I'll apply my thinking to this new context. These are cards, which implies a degree of portability. The object could exist in the game and in real life, much like Halsey's Journal actually does appear in the game and in real life. The cards' existence inside the game is believable.

What makes 343's so-called terminals "retarded" is that they are episodic cutscenes masquerading as found objects in the game world. Who in the game world made them? Why would they exist in the game world? To quote myself, "They’re easter eggs that break immersion while trying to deepen it. They’re terminals found in the game world, but they take you out of it."

Why would you open a terminal except to view it in the moment? And why would a terminal in the game world present an omniscient perspective? Conversely, it seems more realistic to me that a character in a game might read Grimoire cards in a moment of leisure and not in a hostile environment. That's why I think I agree with Xenos and TTL Demog0gue. Reading the cards you get to, in a sense, inhabit your character outside the game world, and get a flavor of the world without playing the game. When you return to the game world, you have a richer understanding of it. At no point are the objects' integrity as found objects undermined.

343's "terminals" would be fine if they weren't called terminals and they didn't use the game's mechanic of "accessing terminals" to unlock them.

How is that acceptable to you while the terminals were not?

TV screens are made for movies. Watching the terminal movies should be done on a TV. Having to stream them through waypoint makes then look like ass compared to a properly compressed video file on a disc. Therefore, using waypoint to watch terminals sucks.

Reading on TV screens sucks. Therefore, it's completely fine to read cards on a phone, especially when you can vertically hold the phone and swipe to go trough cards that fill the whole screen.

Kermit and Cody covered it pretty well, but let me put it in my own words. It really is about format for me. The terminals annoyed me because I am literally playing the game on the device that excels at watching video on, but it is impossible to watch the terminals on it. With Grimoire cards I find it acceptable because I HATE reading walls of text on my TV screen (especially when I am sitting 6+ feet away from the TV). I actually was kind of annoyed with the Halo 3 terminals because we had to read them on our TV, so I actually would find one and then look up the terminal on the Internet so I didn't have to read it on my TV.

I'll answer. I explained this a long time ago, but I'll apply my thinking to this new context. These are cards, which implies a degree of portability. The object could exist in the game and in real life, much like Halsey's Journal actually does appear in the game and in real life. The cards' existence inside the game is believable.

A machine you can use to watch or download video is hardly unbelievable.

What makes 343's so-called terminals "retarded" is that they are episodic cutscenes masquerading as found objects in the game world. Who in the game world made them? Why would they exist in the game world? To quote myself, "They’re easter eggs that break immersion while trying to deepen it. They’re terminals found in the game world, but they take you out of it."

Well then you'd have to apply that to the text terminals in Halo 3, no? and the audio logs in ODST, and the other video terminals in Halo Anniversary, and these cards-- what's the in-universe rationale for each of them? The audio logs and the pictures that go with them are obviously from the city's surveillance system. The Halo 3 terminals would be for data access, and so would the Halo Anniversary and Halo 4 terminals-- maybe in Halo 3 it seemed more like they were for data access because of the numbers and abbreviations in the left panel, but do you really think all these terminals-- including the ones with the audio logs-- wouldn't be capable of mostly all the same things in-universe? The only thing unrealistic about the Halo 4 terminals is the way the little spheres turn to ash after you download their data.

Why would you open a terminal except to view it in the moment?

Why does that not apply to cards?

And why would a terminal in the game world present an omniscient perspective?

It's fairly clear it's because they were made by the Forerunners and/or their machinery. It says when you get them they're tied to the Domain, which is supposed to be this nearly omnipresent, highly capable, possibly intelligent data network, although from what I remember the game never actually tells you what it is or what it's like.
Also, why would they have cards with this information? A database, a book, heck even a scroll I might buy, but now that you got me to think about it, using cards seems unrealistic, they don't even have holes where you could bind them loose-leaf.
Back to the first point, it looks like you get Grimoire cards for killing things and completing objectives and missions, and I haven't heard of anyone just finding them, which brings up the question of why that is the way it is, in-universe, and moreover you don't even see the cards in the game except as a little icon. So yes, they could exist in the game world and the real world, but as it stands they don't, in the game world they exist in name only.

Conversely, it seems more realistic to me that a character in a game might read Grimoire cards in a moment of leisure and not in a hostile environment.

Conversely to that, I feel confident in saying watching a video (actually watching it, not just looking in its general direction and listening) takes more attention than reading something, and can make it harder to hear other things, so someone in a combat situation would be more likely to wait to watch a video than to read something (though to be fair I would think they'd wait to watch or read anything that isn't very important to their survival).

That's why I think I agree with Xenos and TTL Demog0gue. Reading the cards you get to, in a sense, inhabit your character outside the game world, and get a flavor of the world without playing the game. When you return to the game world, you have a richer understanding of it.

This a good point, maybe a really good point, for the existence of the cards and for them being basically the way they are, and I agree with it. What it's not is a reason they shouldn't also be available in the game for people who don't want to load up something completely separate just to read a few paragraphs. You had a point about a hostile environment, but then why not let us read them in the area that's specifically not hostile, the Tower?

343's "terminals" would be fine if they weren't called terminals and they didn't use the game's mechanic of "accessing terminals" to unlock them.

This is a good point too, except the first time you access one Cortana says she's downloading the data for later review, and, again, there's no good reason to require the cards to be accessed separately from the game.

...pretty much this. I'll also add to it by pointing out the difference between video/audio and printed text. With the terminals, I wanted to be able to watch the cutscenes as I found them, right there, without having to leave the game to do so. With the Grimoire, the story is in prose in these little snippets and tidbits that, for me, make more sense to read on my own time later. I actually like that they're not interrupting my play session. I get the notice that I've unlocked another card (file away for future reference), I keep on exploring, and I come back to read more about this expansive universe later when I'm not squashing Fallen. That's kind of what I meant by 'format.'

Also, on a side note, Bungie's made it really easy to access the Grimoire; it's a top-level nav item. 343i made it way more difficult to find the terminal vids than they needed.

How is that acceptable to you while the terminals were not?

TV screens are made for movies. Watching the terminal movies should be done on a TV. Having to stream them through waypoint makes then look like ass compared to a properly compressed video file on a disc. Therefore, using waypoint to watch terminals sucks.

Reading on TV screens sucks. Therefore, it's completely fine to read cards on a phone, especially when you can vertically hold the phone and swipe to go trough cards that fill the whole screen.

Basically what I said, but better. :)

I'll answer. I explained this a long time ago, but I'll apply my thinking to this new context. These are cards, which implies a degree of portability. The object could exist in the game and in real life, much like Halsey's Journal actually does appear in the game and in real life. The cards' existence inside the game is believable.

A machine you can use to watch or download video is hardly unbelievable.

It is when it shows you a cutscene. If you're going to take me out of the game to give me more narrative from an external perspective, don't pretend that this is part of the game world. Just give me a cutscene.

What makes 343's so-called terminals "retarded" is that they are episodic cutscenes masquerading as found objects in the game world. Who in the game world made them? Why would they exist in the game world? To quote myself, "They’re easter eggs that break immersion while trying to deepen it. They’re terminals found in the game world, but they take you out of it."

Well then you'd have to apply that to the text terminals in Halo 3, no? and the audio logs in ODST, and the other video terminals in Halo Anniversary, and these cards-- what's the in-universe rationale for each of them? The audio logs and the pictures that go with them are obviously from the city's surveillance system. The Halo 3 terminals would be for data access, and so would the Halo Anniversary and Halo 4 terminals-- maybe in Halo 3 it seemed more like they were for data access because of the numbers and abbreviations in the left panel, but do you really think all these terminals-- including the ones with the audio logs-- wouldn't be capable of mostly all the same things in-universe? The only thing unrealistic about the Halo 4 terminals is the way the little spheres turn to ash after you download their data.

Wrong. In Bungie's games the content is believable in context. Not so for 343's games. For a detailed explanation of why, read my original HBO post.

Why would you open a terminal except to view it in the moment?

Why does that not apply to cards?

The cards are acquired in the course of playing the game, but there is no specific action in Destiny that is the equivalent of walking up to a terminal and opening it.

And why would a terminal in the game world present an omniscient perspective?

It's fairly clear it's because they were made by the Forerunners and/or their machinery. It says when you get them they're tied to the Domain, which is supposed to be this nearly omnipresent, highly capable, possibly intelligent data network, although from what I remember the game never actually tells you what it is or what it's like.

Bull crap. I'm going to quote myself again. "The terminals seem to be following a Halo tradition, but they’re really an awkward hybrid of what has been three separate Halo traditions: Easter eggs (extra, fun stuff you find in the game world that intentionally breaks immersion), terminals (extra narrative you find in the game world that deepens immersion), and cutscenes ( [mostly] third-person narrative triggered to serve a necessary dramatic purpose)." Saying that they're products of the Forerunners is just more window dressing that is of a piece with calling them "terminals"--as if saying that makes it believable. Are the cutscenes in Halo CE created by the Forerunners? Of course not. They are narrative content supplied by the game creators to further the narrative, and 343's terminals are exactly the same.

Also, why would they have cards with this information? A database, a book, heck even a scroll I might buy, but now that you got me to think about it, using cards seems unrealistic, they don't even have holes where you could bind them loose-leaf.
Back to the first point, it looks like you get Grimoire cards for killing things and completing objectives and missions, and I haven't heard of anyone just finding them, which brings up the question of why that is the way it is, in-universe, and moreover you don't even see the cards in the game except as a little icon. So yes, they could exist in the game world and the real world, but as it stands they don't, in the game world they exist in name only.

You're proving my point. If there was animation that showed our characters picking up cards, I'd expect to be able to read them.

Conversely, it seems more realistic to me that a character in a game might read Grimoire cards in a moment of leisure and not in a hostile environment.

Conversely to that, I feel confident in saying watching a video (actually watching it, not just looking in its general direction and listening) takes more attention than reading something, and can make it harder to hear other things, so someone in a combat situation would be more likely to wait to watch a video than to read something (though to be fair I would think they'd wait to watch or read anything that isn't very important to their survival).

I'm not a fan of non-text terminals in the first place. It seems to me that 343 just decided that they were going to make terminals "better" without really understanding what made terminals cool and interesting to begin with.

That's why I think I agree with Xenos and TTL Demog0gue. Reading the cards you get to, in a sense, inhabit your character outside the game world, and get a flavor of the world without playing the game. When you return to the game world, you have a richer understanding of it.

This a good point, maybe a really good point, for the existence of the cards and for them being basically the way they are, and I agree with it. What it's not is a reason they shouldn't also be available in the game for people who don't want to load up something completely separate just to read a few paragraphs. You had a point about a hostile environment, but then why not let us read them in the area that's specifically not hostile, the Tower?

343's "terminals" would be fine if they weren't called terminals and they didn't use the game's mechanic of "accessing terminals" to unlock them.

This is a good point too, except the first time you access one Cortana says she's downloading the data for later review, and, again, there's no good reason to require the cards to be accessed separately from the game.

Yes, there is. What others have said, but also just content-wise. Gameplay isn't interrupted to provide background information about the world. You could say the same about the Halo 4 terminals, except it's obvious they would've rather included them in the game. By calling them terminals, they've created that expectation. They've screwed up the concept, though, and now they're stuck with it.

I'm not a fan of non-text terminals in the first place. It seems to me that 343 just decided that they were going to make terminals "better" without really understanding what made terminals cool and interesting to begin with.

I just want to add that I 100% agree with this assessment, and it isn't coming from a place of 343 hate, it simply (as far as I'm concerned) is a truth.

The first time I heard the word "Terminal" associated with a game, was Marathon. In Marathon they were all text, they occasionally had images (more often diagrams), and they were the main way the story was delivered and pushed forward. You walked up to one, activated it, and stood there reading it.

Fast forward to Halo 3, where, again, the word "Terminal" is being batted around. As this is the same developer, I know what I should be expecting. An in world interface, text, potentially lots of it, and maybe images, all of which will likely push the story forward. That's exactly what we got, though the story was more of a parallel B-plot to Halo 3's A-plot.

ODST. They said we'd have "Audio Logs". They served a similar function and purpose to Terminals, but they've been renamed, and with the new name comes a new expectation. Yeah, you had a slide-show animated video to go with them, but it was presented as security camera footage/snapshots. You could also ignore the video entirely and treat it as a pure audio log. The way it worked in the context of the game and the universe was pitch perfect. The Super wants to tell you something, to fill you in. He directs you to these Audio Logs, you listen and learn what's going on, and in the end, the pay out is avenging a person you never met, and a different take on the Engineers.

Reach gave us "Datapads", and again, with the new name comes a new expectation, though these largely were exactly the same as Terminals.

But Halo Anniversary and Halo 4 break this idea. They're called Terminals, but they aren't anything like a Terminal. Before these were all stories that the Chief, the Rookie, or Noble Six accessed on their way to something else. Now they're stories for the player to access on the way to something else. That's a marked difference. It's further muddled by the presentation. The Terminals in CEA could've maybe worked if it was all first person from Guilty Spark's perspective, but they weren't. They were all third person. You weren't seeing a record of his memories or stumbling onto a journal or a diary, he was narrating them to you, he was literally telling you a story. That doesn't make sense for something the Chief stumbles upon, and it's kinda boring for the player too. It's just another cinematic.

And Halo 4... I barely even remember. The fact I had to go to an external source to view them was awful. The fact it was on Waypoint, which was terrible at streaming, left a horrible taste in my mouth. I looked them up on YouTube, found a single video that contained all of them, and watched it in 720p. I recall them feeling nonsensical, confusing, and what little redeeming quality I saw in back story and motivation for Didact should've been presented upfront. Not buried in a stupid thing the player has to find and then dumped on a friggin website.

At any rate, I think that is the critical difference. Terminals under Bungie were items to be consumed, in game, in universe, by both the player AND the main character. Terminals under 343 aren't items to consume. They're just additional cinematics.

My thoughts exactly.

I'll answer. I explained this a long time ago, but I'll apply my thinking to this new context. These are cards, which implies a degree of portability. The object could exist in the game and in real life, much like Halsey's Journal actually does appear in the game and in real life. The cards' existence inside the game is believable.

A machine you can use to watch or download video is hardly unbelievable.

It is when it shows you a cutscene. If you're going to take me out of the game to give me more narrative from an external perspective, don't pretend that this is part of the game world. Just give me a cutscene.

The thought I was responding to wasn't that they were bad game design (I agree they were), but that they were unrealistic (I maintain they weren't).

Why would you open a terminal except to view it in the moment?

Why does that not apply to cards?

The cards are acquired in the course of playing the game, but there is no specific action in Destiny that is the equivalent of walking up to a terminal and opening it.

fair enough

And why would a terminal in the game world present an omniscient perspective?

It's fairly clear it's because they were made by the Forerunners and/or their machinery. It says when you get them they're tied to the Domain, which is supposed to be this nearly omnipresent, highly capable, possibly intelligent data network, although from what I remember the game never actually tells you what it is or what it's like.

Bull crap. I'm going to quote myself again. "The terminals seem to be following a Halo tradition, but they’re really an awkward hybrid of what has been three separate Halo traditions: Easter eggs (extra, fun stuff you find in the game world that intentionally breaks immersion), terminals (extra narrative you find in the game world that deepens immersion), and cutscenes ( [mostly] third-person narrative triggered to serve a necessary dramatic purpose)." Saying that they're products of the Forerunners is just more window dressing that is of a piece with calling them "terminals"--as if saying that makes it believable. Are the cutscenes in Halo CE created by the Forerunners? Of course not. They are narrative content supplied by the game creators to further the narrative, and 343's terminals are exactly the same.

That was referring to the Halo Anniversary terminals, I was referring to Halo 4's terminals (and I should've specified that). Even so, your further explanation seems to mostly be that you don't like the presentation, framing, and content of Halo Anniversary's terminals, and how the content and presentation fit into the game world, and not so much about the delivery (in-game cutscene versus out-of-game cutscene or in-game text or out-of-game text) and not all about the game integration (physical objects in the game), and delivery and game integration were the points of what I was saying.
To address what you said, I don't know what Halo Anniversary's terminals could be other than 343 Guilty Spark's logs (except the first one, which seems to be a message, and the one on Keyes, which is a whole different animal), and as for fitting into the game world, I think they do a good job (other than, again, the first one, which is frankly abysmal at fitting in or being believable or conveying anything useful or interesting or emotionally impactful).

Also, why would they have cards with this information? A database, a book, heck even a scroll I might buy, but now that you got me to think about it, using cards seems unrealistic, they don't even have holes where you could bind them loose-leaf.
Back to the first point, it looks like you get Grimoire cards for killing things and completing objectives and missions, and I haven't heard of anyone just finding them, which brings up the question of why that is the way it is, in-universe, and moreover you don't even see the cards in the game except as a little icon. So yes, they could exist in the game world and the real world, but as it stands they don't, in the game world they exist in name only.

You're proving my point. If there was animation that showed our characters picking up cards, I'd expect to be able to read them.

That's not the point I was contesting, I was contesting the point that they're well-integrated into the game world.

Conversely, it seems more realistic to me that a character in a game might read Grimoire cards in a moment of leisure and not in a hostile environment.

Conversely to that, I feel confident in saying watching a video (actually watching it, not just looking in its general direction and listening) takes more attention than reading something, and can make it harder to hear other things, so someone in a combat situation would be more likely to wait to watch a video than to read something (though to be fair I would think they'd wait to watch or read anything that isn't very important to their survival).

I'm not a fan of non-text terminals in the first place. It seems to me that 343 just decided that they were going to make terminals "better" without really understanding what made terminals cool and interesting to begin with.

If I can go off to the side a little here, it seems to me that, despite usually being pretty open-minded, on this (and maybe a handful of other things) you've decided what is better and that anyone who disagrees with you just doesn't know enough or hasn't really thought about it-- which puts you in good company, namely in the company of one Mr. Cody Miller.

343's "terminals" would be fine if they weren't called terminals and they didn't use the game's mechanic of "accessing terminals" to unlock them.

This is a good point too, except the first time you access one Cortana says she's downloading the data for later review, and, again, there's no good reason to require the cards to be accessed separately from the game.

Yes, there is. What others have said, but also just content-wise. Gameplay isn't interrupted to provide background information about the world. You could say the same about the Halo 4 terminals, except it's obvious they would've rather included them in the game. By calling them terminals, they've created that expectation. They've screwed up the concept, though, and now they're stuck with it.

I honestly don't know if you didn't get this or not. I'm not asking for them to force us to read them, I'm not asking for them to only be available in the game, I'm asking for some possible way to read them in the game and not have to leave or close the game, go to another device or my consol's dashboard area, fire up an app or browser, go to b.net and the Grimoire, and go to the thing I just got, just to read the frickin' two paragraphs I just unlocked.

I dont really mind where they show them, I'd just like to see some progress bars. Im assuming there are Grimoire cards for killing Hive, but I have no idea because Ive not spotted a popup yet

If I can go off to the side a little here, it seems to me that, despite usually being pretty open-minded, on this (and maybe a handful of other things) you've decided what is better and that anyone who disagrees with you just doesn't know enough or hasn't really thought about it-- which puts you in good company, namely in the company of one Mr. Cody Miller.

Point taken. I forget we're not talking on XBL. I'll be more diplomatic. 343's terminals are not realistic because they do not have the characteristics of items that would be found in the world. They do not look like logs. What makes found items interesting is that that they give a glimpse of aspects of the game world through objects that don't exist for the purpose of telling a story, but advance the story regardless. Found objects are artifacts, much like an ancient cup found by an archaeologist. They can be text communication (Marathon, Halo 3), audio logs (ODST), or video (Pvt. Jenkins' video). 343's terminals would have been more realistic and much more evocative had they had a more limited point of view and let us use our imaginations. (Audio logs from Guilty Spark would have been cool!) As is, they are cinematic vignettes that would not exist in the game world. Who in the game world is the camera man for Guilty Sparks "logs"? Who operates the crane taking the tracking shots of him from different angles as he floats to the horizon? Who edits the sequences together for dramatic effect? Who scores the music for the "logs"? I could go on, but the answer is obvious. No one in the game world created them. Their visual point of view is omniscient, as they are cutscenes designed by extra-game artists to add MOAR STORY, awkwardly delivered through terminals, and no amount of loading screen animations tacked on to them changes their essential nature. They are, finally, a confused mess because they're trying to be two very different things at once.

I'll answer. I explained this a long time ago, but I'll apply my thinking to this new context. These are cards, which implies a degree of portability. The object could exist in the game and in real life, much like Halsey's Journal actually does appear in the game and in real life. The cards' existence inside the game is believable.

What makes 343's so-called terminals "retarded" is that they are episodic cutscenes masquerading as found objects in the game world. Who in the game world made them? Why would they exist in the game world? To quote myself, "They’re easter eggs that break immersion while trying to deepen it. They’re terminals found in the game world, but they take you out of it."

Why would you open a terminal except to view it in the moment? And why would a terminal in the game world present an omniscient perspective? Conversely, it seems more realistic to me that a character in a game might read Grimoire cards in a moment of leisure and not in a hostile environment. That's why I think I agree with Xenos and TTL Demog0gue. Reading the cards you get to, in a sense, inhabit your character outside the game world, and get a flavor of the world without playing the game. When you return to the game world, you have a richer understanding of it. At no point are the objects' integrity as found objects undermined.

343's "terminals" would be fine if they weren't called terminals and they didn't use the game's mechanic of "accessing terminals" to unlock them.

Ahhh this isn't exactly what I'm asking about. I'm not asking why these cards are better than the terminals- its not why one piece of content is better than the other per say (even though I agree with most of your points on that); that's apples and oranges.

It's the method in which they are accessed. You should not have to leave the game in order to consume this in-game content.

From every dead ghost I found that I could revive, I would see the title of what I unlocked and want to read about it in that moment. I couldn't. I also gather these were important supplements to the plot, "The darkness", "Golden Age", "Traveler1,2,3" come to mind, as well as some of the other species ones I found.

Yeah, you can pull em up on your phone (well, I can't because my phone is ancient) or the website, but you should be able to pull them up in your inventory and read them too.

Especially if you are going to argue the plausibility of them in the real world (i.e. they are card) than what possible strain can they be for my titan to carry when in my inventory I have numerous pieces of armor, weapons, materials, and a pocket rocket bike?

Sorry man, I'm not buying it.

I should't need to be asked to leave my TV to go fill in story gaps for the game I am playing, even if it is just as close to me on my phone or whatever. It was dumb when 343 did it, and it's not any less dumb to me here, if that is the way it's going to work.

If you want to drive traffic to your site or increase your app downloads though...

(Again, maybe this will change by the time it's out)

I'll answer. I explained this a long time ago, but I'll apply my thinking to this new context. These are cards, which implies a degree of portability. The object could exist in the game and in real life, much like Halsey's Journal actually does appear in the game and in real life. The cards' existence inside the game is believable.

What makes 343's so-called terminals "retarded" is that they are episodic cutscenes masquerading as found objects in the game world. Who in the game world made them? Why would they exist in the game world? To quote myself, "They’re easter eggs that break immersion while trying to deepen it. They’re terminals found in the game world, but they take you out of it."

Why would you open a terminal except to view it in the moment? And why would a terminal in the game world present an omniscient perspective? Conversely, it seems more realistic to me that a character in a game might read Grimoire cards in a moment of leisure and not in a hostile environment. That's why I think I agree with Xenos and TTL Demog0gue. Reading the cards you get to, in a sense, inhabit your character outside the game world, and get a flavor of the world without playing the game. When you return to the game world, you have a richer understanding of it. At no point are the objects' integrity as found objects undermined.

343's "terminals" would be fine if they weren't called terminals and they didn't use the game's mechanic of "accessing terminals" to unlock them.

Ahhh this isn't exactly what I'm asking about. I'm not asking why these cards are better than the terminals- its not why one piece of content is better than the other per say (even though I agree with most of your points on that); that's apples and oranges.

It's the method in which they are accessed. You should not have to leave the game in order to consume this in-game content.

From every dead ghost I found that I could revive, I would see the title of what I unlocked and want to read about it in that moment. I couldn't. I also gather these were important supplements to the plot, "The darkness", "Golden Age", "Traveler1,2,3" come to mind, as well as some of the other species ones I found.

Yeah, you can pull em up on your phone (well, I can't because my phone is ancient) or the website, but you should be able to pull them up in your inventory and read them too.

Especially if you are going to argue the plausibility of them in the real world (i.e. they are card) than what possible strain can they be for my titan to carry when in my inventory I have numerous pieces of armor, weapons, materials, and a pocket rocket bike?

Sorry man, I'm not buying it.

I should't need to be asked to leave my TV to go fill in story gaps for the game I am playing, even if it is just as close to me on my phone or whatever. It was dumb when 343 did it, and it's not any less dumb to me here, if that is the way it's going to work.

If you want to drive traffic to your site or increase your app downloads though...

(Again, maybe this will change by the time it's out)

343 did it because they dropped the ball and couldn't get it in the game in time. This is substantially different, and is much more akin to extra-game content like Halsey's Journal, or the manual that came with the Special Edition of Halo 2. There is no advantage to consuming it in-game, and you could consider it a feature that you can get little hits of Destiny during your downtime away from your console.

How is that acceptable to you while the terminals were not?

TV screens are made for movies. Watching the terminal movies should be done on a TV. Having to stream them through waypoint makes then look like ass compared to a properly compressed video file on a disc. Therefore, using waypoint to watch terminals sucks.

Yes. We know this. 343 was lampooned (and rightly so) for this practice. Yet it will continue with MCC and H2A.

Reading on TV screens sucks. Therefore, it's completely fine to read cards on a phone, especially when you can vertically hold the phone and swipe to go trough cards that fill the whole screen.

Nope, gonna call bullshit on this and everyone else that says reading on a TV is harder (except for people like GV who are still playing on SDTVs with this gen of console).

-You're reading all the time in destiny
-you're reading about your guns
-you're reading about your armor
-you're reading about your items
-you're reading about your missions you unlock in explore
-you're reading about your missions on the star map
-you're reading about other players when they are near you
-you're reading about multiple notification all over the game, pertaining to you and other players

This text is fairly small and occurring all the time in the game.

Even if you are sitting really far back from your TV (and I honestly doubt that most of you are sitting that far back), you are still able to interpret this info, some of which doesn't hang on screen very long.

So trying to say it makes more sense to read these cards on your cell phone (which is even smaller, even if it is right in your face)is not flying with me.

Same with saying it's easier to swipe with your hand to browse through the cards- you can just as easily do this with your controller in the inventory area on your console of choice by pressing L1-R1-L2-R2-RT-LT or whatever.

The best example I can think of at the moment is Metroid Prime. If you've never played it, that game requires you scan essentially everything to learn more about it and the results come back to you in journal logs that you can read at any time (In the middle of battle, when things calm down, from pause etc). It worked there- why not here? What's the big road block? Is Bungie worried it can't trust it's own players to read about what they put in? Shouldn't be, because they're trusting that they'll pull it up on their phones or computers.

And back to that- Let me make myself clear that it's FINE you can pull them up on your phone or via the web at any time- great actually. You can be out in the real world with your friends etc and talk\share BUT, that doesn't mean that should be the only option. They should be view able in game.

But Rev, no one's gonna read that in the heat of battle!

I hear ya- not everyone likes to live as dangerously as I do- make them only readable in the tower after you download\translate them just like the engrams(?) you find.

Seems pretty simple to me.

I would appreciate being able to load them in the tower as well.

343 did it because they dropped the ball and couldn't get it in the game in time. >This is substantially different, and is much more akin to extra-game content like >Halsey's Journal, or the manual that came with the Special Edition of Halo 2. There is >no advantage to consuming it in-game, and you could consider it a feature that you can >get little hits of Destiny during your downtime away from your console.

I don't think 343 "did it it because they dropped the ball" (Because from what I gater the H2 terminals will be the same way) and I don't think Bungie is doing it because they want to spare you the trials of reading on your TV.

I think both did it as a way to increase page views and user counts on their sites, or to get you to download their app.

Both of which on the surface is fine with me- any dedicated-hardcore fan would already have these anyway- but since these are text based I see no problems with reading them in the tower, as my guardian sits on the grass after a long mission.

I guess we'll just have to disagree buddy.

I hear ya- not everyone likes to live as dangerously as I do- make them only readable in the tower after you download\translate them just like the engrams(?) you find.

I actually like this idea. It'd be really cool if there was a library where you could access them. In a game like Destiny which is dynamic the majority of the time, that's about the only place where you have the leisure to access your reading HUD and not die. As a matter of fact, the Tower probably exists just so you have a peaceful place to consume certain kinds of content. BTW, most of the content that you read regularly in Destiny is pertinent to the situation at hand. The Grimoire cards are different.

Context informs the experience. Sitting with Halsey's Journal in my hands was essential the experience. It being outside the game made it better. It extended the game world into my hands. I see the kind of information delivered only through the app or the web as similar. Non-essential, but informative and interesting. It's cool that I can take a break at work and read some Destiny lore. I have my boss to contend with, but that's better than me standing like a zombie in the game world while my team mates are like, "Dude, that Hive Acolyte is about to smash your head in."

I think both did it as a way to increase page views and user counts on their sites, or to get you to download their app.

Both of which on the surface is fine with me- any dedicated-hardcore fan would already have these anyway- but since these are text based I see no problems with reading them in the tower, as my guardian sits on the grass after a long mission.

I guess we'll just have to disagree buddy.

I pretty strongly remember 343i saying the timing of the content-complete of the disc and the production of the terminal vids didn't work out. So they implemented it as Waypoint videos unlocks instead.