Are Auto Rifles OP?

So apparently the Galahad-C managed to get nerfed for the beta, but that doesn’t seem to address the larger issue I’m observing in the Crucible, that the make or break weapon is the Auto Rifle.

Some casual perusal of the top players in some of my matches.

Match 1

Match 2

Match 3

And I noticed that everyone who does well is using an Auto Rifle. And a lot of the people doing poorly (aside from lower level people who possibly didn’t even have heavies at the time…) were using Scout or Pulse rifles.

Except! Sigbias Silva has pointed out their amazing performance with a Scout Rifle. Is an OP Auto Rifle a myth? What do you think?

And yes, I'm hankering for an API to actually start crunching some numbers on this. I can only imagine the amazing amount of data Bungie has collected from the beta so far.

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So apparently the Galahad-C managed to get nerfed for the beta, but that doesn’t seem to address the larger issue I’m observing in the Crucible, that the make or break weapon is the Auto Rifle.

Some casual perusal of the top players in some of my matches.

Match 1

Match 2

Match 3

And I noticed that everyone who does well is using an Auto Rifle. And a lot of the people doing poorly (aside from lower level people who possibly didn’t even have heavies at the time…) were using Scout or Pulse rifles.

Except! Sigbias Silva has pointed out their amazing performance with a Scout Rifle. Is an OP Auto Rifle a myth? What do you think?

And yes, I'm hankering for an API to actually start crunching some numbers on this. I can only imagine the amazing amount of data Bungie has collected from the beta so far.

Perhaps they are. I started doing a lot better once you told me that Auto Rifles were the go-to guns. I think I started my first several games at around 0.5 K/D, but since I started using an auto rifle (which I've had a very difficult time finding a good one) it has moved to a jealousy inducing 0.9. LOL

And I'm still having issues with damage feedback and hit recognition. After some experimentation, I think it might be connection related. I updated my router's firmware yesterday and that seemed to do the trick and fix some of my problems. Although, I started having issues again during a couple games last night even though my connection tested fine.

And now that I think about it, was it my connection or weapon choice that led to improvement? Two different solutions for the same problem implemented at nearly the same time! Great job, me!

Regardless of connection, I still think Auto Rifles give me the best chance at survival in the Crucible. Thanks for the tip!

- CC /Disjointed thoughts and vague feedback

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All I know is that the Auto Rifles were my go-to when I played on my friend's PS3, and I did decently. I was on their account, though, so I don't have a record of it.

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Went into Iron Banner last night for 4 games by myself. I did so terribly:

Kills, Assists, K/D, points
Game 1 - 28, 4, 4.00, 5380
Game 2 - 22, 6, 3.67, 4665
Game 3 - 18, 3, 1.64, 3700 - dear lord what was I doing?
Game 4 - 34, 3, 3.09, 5875

It's not Halo where one AR is the same as the next, nor is it CoD where anything will kill in 3 bullets. You need to know your weapons and the situations they are good in. Don't put yourself in situations where you aren't at an advantage.
(see also: The Art of War)

In the game where I 'only' got a 1.64 K/D, I was trying to play too close up to guys with ARs, Titans and shottys. Backed off a little, switched to Red-dot sight and I started doing better.

Tip for Control: you don't need to have every control point. You don't even need the majority. If they can't kill you, they can't get points. If you can outslay them enough, you can still win even if they have most of the control points. Especially with bonus points and assists.

In the last game my total points/kill was way down, but I was killing so much it didn't matter.

Jigoku-4-lyf. Dunno what level they were but I was definitely 3-shotting fools with it. Using it to pop-shot attempted snipers - successfully - at a greater range than my ARs could do.

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Here is the thing, you are right about the situational part of the guns. AR's work really well mid-close range, and if you are mid-long, you can beat the AR with an equal Scout or Pulse.

The big thing is this - Most of the Control maps were pretty full of mid-close range areas, particularly with the location of the Control points. I was running AR, Fusion Rifle, and Heavy MG on every map, and playing to the mid-close range situation. It was very easy to get a lot of caps and kills because people flood the cap areas and I could just sit and wait for them to come to me.

I think, if these are the pattern for the rest of the maps, the AR's might be a little OP, or maybe point a control point out in the open?

I found the Pulse rifle really solid, but the recoil was always a pain - it seemed higher to me than the AR's (which doesn't really make sense, but it could be that I never found a quality Pulse Rifle). I did find the Uncommon Jingoku Scout Rifle, but I had trouble with it... Mostly because I generally play mid-close. That is very hard with a Scout Rifle.

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I don't think it's so much a matter of AutoRifles being OP as it is them working in most situations. Similar to the BR of yore. And especially when shields don't take as much punishment as they used to in Halo, AR's make a pretty good run-down weapon. It's really all about the sustained fire, and peppering with controlled bursts at range.

I've played the majority of my matches with a scout rifle, and I definitely feel like it's way too hazardous in close not to carry a shotgun because most everyone else has an AR. The one place I felt like my Scout Rifle crushed was in Iron Banner matches. Higher damage per single shot wins a lot.

I think it's just going to end up being what most people use (at least in the current iteration) because aside from extreme range, it's a pretty safe bet.

Side note: I don't see ANYONE using a hand cannon in the crucible. Can't really see any advantage over a Scout Rifle.

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Here is the thing, you are right about the situational part of the guns. AR's work really well mid-close range, and if you are mid-long, you can beat the AR with an equal Scout or Pulse.

The big thing is this - Most of the Control maps were pretty full of mid-close range areas, particularly with the location of the Control points. I was running AR, Fusion Rifle, and Heavy MG on every map, and playing to the mid-close range situation. It was very easy to get a lot of caps and kills because people flood the cap areas and I could just sit and wait for them to come to me.

I think, if these are the pattern for the rest of the maps, the AR's might be a little OP, or maybe point a control point out in the open?

When I was running with some DBO peeps in the Iron Banner on Saturday evening, I was using an AR then as well. I was still doing really well then. But my play style was totally different. I was getting up in rocks and corners near to enemies, jumping out and trying to tank their damage while I hosed them down.

With the Jigoku Scout Rifle I took the corners that were a step further away, stuck closer to cover, and used my double jump to GTFO, get up high and in sight of choke points.

Not going to work on all maps, all the time, against all enemies but, you can still swap it out whenever you want. I haven't mastered enough weapons to be able to do that in the heat of battle yet though.

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Here is the thing, you are right about the situational part of the guns. AR's work really well mid-close range, and if you are mid-long, you can beat the AR with an equal Scout or Pulse.

The big thing is this - Most of the Control maps were pretty full of mid-close range areas, particularly with the location of the Control points. I was running AR, Fusion Rifle, and Heavy MG on every map, and playing to the mid-close range situation. It was very easy to get a lot of caps and kills because people flood the cap areas and I could just sit and wait for them to come to me.

I think, if these are the pattern for the rest of the maps, the AR's might be a little OP, or maybe point a control point out in the open?

When I was running with some DBO peeps in the Iron Banner on Saturday evening, I was using an AR then as well. I was still doing really well then. But my play style was totally different. I was getting up in rocks and corners near to enemies, jumping out and trying to tank their damage while I hosed them down.

With the Jigoku Scout Rifle I took the corners that were a step further away, stuck closer to cover, and used my double jump to GTFO, get up high and in sight of choke points.

Not going to work on all maps, all the time, against all enemies but, you can still swap it out whenever you want. I haven't mastered enough weapons to be able to do that in the heat of battle yet though.

Yeah, I really feel like maps may change this. Even First Light can be largely close quarters once you get to the interior spaces. You can move from A to C and back without being all that exposed to long distance players.

Once there's a map where you're battling across large open spaces, then I see the Scout and Pulse rifles getting more proper use.

I'm just also expecting the range on auto-rifles decreased before release.

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If you want to live for long on First Light, the interior spaces are key. Unless that is, you are in the Interceptor or playing side kick in the Pike.

Even on that huge map, with the danger of vehicles (and snipers) in the open spaces, and the location of the control points, staying in the smaller interior spaces was pretty wise and happened a lot if you wanted to stay alive or get caps. Then once inside, the Scout Rifle was not ideal, because First Light's interior spaces are some of the crampiest. Great for AR/Shotgun though...

I think Rusted Lands will be a solid Mid-Long range fight map, but it was only available in Iron Banner where AR is king as well, so...

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Went into Iron Banner last night for 4 games by myself. I did so terribly:

Kills, Assists, K/D, points
Game 1 - 28, 4, 4.00, 5380
Game 2 - 22, 6, 3.67, 4665
Game 3 - 18, 3, 1.64, 3700 - dear lord what was I doing?
Game 4 - 34, 3, 3.09, 5875

It's not Halo where one AR is the same as the next, nor is it CoD where anything will kill in 3 bullets. You need to know your weapons and the situations they are good in. Don't put yourself in situations where you aren't at an advantage.
(see also: The Art of War)

In the game where I 'only' got a 1.64 K/D, I was trying to play too close up to guys with ARs, Titans and shottys. Backed off a little, switched to Red-dot sight and I started doing better.

Tip for Control: you don't need to have every control point. You don't even need the majority. If they can't kill you, they can't get points. If you can outslay them enough, you can still win even if they have most of the control points. Especially with bonus points and assists.

In the last game my total points/kill was way down, but I was killing so much it didn't matter.

Jigoku-4-lyf. Dunno what level they were but I was definitely 3-shotting fools with it. Using it to pop-shot attempted snipers - successfully - at a greater range than my ARs could do.

I'm curious how the Jigoku-4 fairs in the vanilla crucible without level benefits. Iron Banner matches are inherently flawed, you could dominate with a Hand Cannon if it happens to be the most powerful gun in the match.

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I'm curious how the Jigoku-4 fairs in the vanilla crucible without level benefits. Iron Banner matches are inherently flawed, you could dominate with a Hand Cannon if it happens to be the most powerful gun in the match.

I've got a couple of potent hand cannons. I could win out against auto rifles in iron banner unless I just totally missed. The reload time on my biggest one (Maverick? ) is pretty long, even with the hunter's reload boost active. That managed to get me killed a few times.

I just got the Jigoku yesterday, so I'll give it a try when the beta is back online. It was pretty good in PvE.

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It's not Halo where one AR is the same as the next, nor is it CoD where anything will kill in 3 bullets. You need to know your weapons and the situations they are good in. Don't put yourself in situations where you aren't at an advantage.
(see also: The Art of War)

I haven't been killed by Auto Rifles so much as Scout rifles. They'll murder you if you take longer than two seconds to get out of the open, and I definitely kill most people with the Jigoku before they even get a bead on where the shots are coming from. Although I've been able to hold my own at close range with scout rifles, this game is definitely about sticking to a different playstyle with different weapons (for this reason, I don't complain if someone with an Auto Rifle kills me at close range, even if I got the drop on him).

In the game where I 'only' got a 1.64 K/D, I was trying to play too close up to guys with ARs, Titans and shottys. Backed off a little, switched to Red-dot sight and I started doing better.

Screw those shotguns. They are far and above my number one reason for dying... But yeah, while each class has ways to survive any encounter, there are definite pros and cons to each, so learn your weaknesses and adapt to them.

Tip for Control: you don't need to have every control point. You don't even need the majority. If they can't kill you, they can't get points. If you can outslay them enough, you can still win even if they have most of the control points. Especially with bonus points and assists.

I have grown weary of telling my teammates this over the years: DO NOT CAPTURE ALL OF THE POINTS. If you control two points, you control where the enemy spawns, and you will have adequate resources defending each point. Let them have one point, and they can only funnel through certain areas.

Jigoku-4-lyf. Dunno what level they were but I was definitely 3-shotting fools with it. Using it to pop-shot attempted snipers - successfully - at a greater range than my ARs could do.

Definitely. The impact on the Jigoku (Mitternacht in the Alpha) is so high, that you can go up against a Golden Gun and stand a chance...

And what better feeling is there than killing someone with GG active?

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Tip for Control: you don't need to have every control point. You don't even need the majority. If they can't kill you, they can't get points. If you can outslay them enough, you can still win even if they have most of the control points. Especially with bonus points and assists.

Though they're at least important. There's been a ccouple games where my whole team has gone positive but we've still lost because we've been playing it like regular old Slayer.

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I played at least 90% of my time in the Crucible with an auto rifle. The other 10% was split between an occasional sniper rifle or heavy machine gun. Every time I tried using a scout rifle or hand cannon in the Crucible, I switched back to auto rifle in less than a minute because it just didn't feel competitive enough.

On the other hand, I play almost exclusively with a scout rifle in every other game type.

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I'm almost exactly the same. I've been playing Warlock with Scout Rifle in PvE, but for Crucible I have a Titan with an Auto Rifle, Shotgun and Rocket launcher.

Played some Iron Banner last night (til 5am local. Oops) and saw a lot of the same. Titan - AR - Shotgun.

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The other auto rifles I could deal with if my head shots were up to snuff, but that Shingen is ridiculous. I finally earned one last night and can say even when it was in my hands it felt over powered. I feel there is another nerfing coming before launch.

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It and the Tamerlane-C3 are beasts. I use my Tamerlane like a scout rifle with a huge magazine. Aim at the head and tap the trigger. If I get in trouble up close I open up full auto. Since a lot of people ignore the heavy ammo I can go quite a while using only it. I hope it doesn't get nerfed.

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Rate of fire: max

I didn't even need to point it, the wash of sound and aim disruption from the storm of bullets gave me all the time I needed.

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Rate of fire: max

I didn't even need to point it, the wash of sound and aim disruption from the storm of bullets gave me all the time I needed.

I just came across one last night that was maxed on the fire rate. The Impact and Reload were so bad, though, that I scrapped it and kept my Scout.

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I didn't know you were so opposed to fun. Me and Darius-C will keep chuckin' ammo.

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I had a Sahara and had a lot of fun with it; I swapped it for a gun I got later, but I'd have to say the Sahara was aces.

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I didn't know you were so opposed to fun. Me and Darius-C will keep chuckin' ammo.

They say to never spray bullets, but it is, on occasion, hilarious.

My play style tends toward the precision Scout/DMR anyway, so I actually never even equipped the Sahara yesterday. Mebbe I should have tried it. ;-)

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I don't pay attention to the names of the guns, so I can't give you specifics, but I have an autorifle that probably is OP. It has a really high rate of fire, decent impact, tons of stability, AND an ability that makes it so that you don't lose stability when you are being shot.

Outside of the crucible, it completely tears through the shields of fallen captains. We are talking almost on far with the fusion rifle when you account for the charge up time. I guess when the shields are up there are no critical hit areas, so as long as you hit somewhere you are doing max damage. In the crucible, the ability to maintain precision while being fired upon is hugely beneficial.

I find in general that the most important stat for me is stability.

If this link works you can see it. The ability is called unflinching.

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AND an ability that makes it so that you don't lose stability when you are being shot.

That is brutal.

I find in general that the most important stat for me is stability.

Agreed. That's why I tend toward the Scouts, but the Galahad-B was actually generally okay for Crucible.

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Sounds like the Shingen-C... Like Xenos said, it is a beast of an Auto-Rifle. It is the fact that it has so much stability that makes it so good.

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The Shingen is what's equipped on Cody's guardian page.

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