One of the things I like about ODST was that even though you had the free-roaming Mombasa Streets level, Bungie was kind enough to provide a map so you wouldn't get lost. Considering that Destiny has open-world levels as well, yet on a much larger scale (they feel as big as Assault on the Control Room, and the levels we played in the beta aren't even fully unlocked), I think we could really use a map. You would have to spend a lot of time getting really familiar with these sprawling maps so you wouldn't ever get lost. My roommate got stuck in one area of the Cosmodrome for a good while before he found his way back to the beginning, and I spent about an hour yesterday trying to find my way out of the subterranean areas on the moon. Destiny could really use an ODST-style map so that players who don't have a good sense of direction don't end up lost all the time.

I enjoy getting lost as long as I have nothing terribly important to do, and in Destiny when you do have something important to do you can bring up your Ghost and it'll give you an impressive number of waypoints in sequence to get you where you need to be. Of course, if you want to go somewhere specific and it's not part of your current mission, getting lost can be a big issue, so maybe having a map would be a good choice. I absolutely don't want it in the corner of my screen though, that would make it very hard to get lost and as I said I enjoy that.

It just happens to only show before you're in the game. :p

Seriously, though, simply having the Director's map available at gameplay (at the pause screen, even, a la ODST) and a compass would improve my experience hundred-fold.

Y'know, if Bungie really wants to go for that kinda old timey vibe with Destiny, the game should come packaged with a big folder of folded-up maps for each level that we have to sprawl out across our living rooms. Then we'll have to see Guardians stop each other on Sparrows asking how to get to a certain place. Okay, it seems kinda lame when I explain it, but it is totally awesome in my mind.

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Y'know, if Bungie really wants to go for that kinda old timey vibe with Destiny, the game should come packaged with a big folder of folded-up maps for each level that we have to sprawl out across our living rooms. Then we'll have to see Guardians stop each other on Sparrows asking how to get to a certain place. Okay, it seems kinda lame when I explain it, but it is totally awesome in my mind.

No, I think that sounds amazing. I refused to use Skyrim's in-game map and quest pointer most of the time, using the real map the game came with. I also had a journal with my own maps and points of interest written down.

In Destiny, the basic map upfront helps give you something to start with without making exploration a point A to B experience. I like that aspect as it is. If you guys really need a map, I'll make you one!

If you're in a story mission or just an explore mission, there are waypoints and the arrow on your radar. Inside buildings in explore the arrow points to the nearest exit. I really don't see the need for a map on top of this.

Seriously, though, simply having the Director's map available at gameplay (at the pause screen, even, a la ODST) and a compass would improve my experience hundred-fold.

+100 on this. It's a quite strange omission.

If you're in a story mission or just an explore mission, there are waypoints and the arrow on your radar. Inside buildings in explore the arrow points to the nearest exit. I really don't see the need for a map on top of this.

All the waypoint marker shows is the direction of the first waypoint in the series, though — it doesn't give you any indication of how far the overall journey will be, which in some cases is a very substantial distance indeed. If you'd prefer to patrol a certain area picking up scavenging or kill missions, then being given a scout mission to the entrance to the Hive tunnels (say) can be rather annoying.

An interactive (and slightly more detailed) map would be useful for getting an idea of which areas you've explored, too. A lot of these rusted old buildings do look quite similar, after all…

Totally pictured Levi as the dude from How to Train your Dragon now. Especially with the intro in HtTyD 2.

In Destiny, the basic map upfront helps give you something to start with without making exploration a point A to B experience. I like that aspect as it is. If you guys really need a map, I'll make you one!

And you shall have my deepest gratitude.

In Destiny, the basic map upfront helps give you something to start with without making exploration a point A to B experience. I like that aspect as it is. If you guys really need a map, I'll make you one!

Yes. Yes. Yes. A million times Yes. I would even pay for a series and I'm sure I'm not alone. I'm just picturing black and white aged maps with a hundred notations, in jokes, and references ("Here be Devils!").

I need this hardcore now. Make it happen after September dude.

If you need any help surveying, you know where I'll be.

All the waypoint marker shows is the direction of the first waypoint in the series, though — it doesn't give you any indication of how far the overall journey will be, which in some cases is a very substantial distance indeed. If you'd prefer to patrol a certain area picking up scavenging or kill missions, then being given a scout mission to the entrance to the Hive tunnels (say) can be rather annoying.

It's not immediately obvious, but the icons floating over each beacon indicate what kind of mission it is. Kill, kill and collect, scout, powerful enemy, scan area etc.

You can also drop a mission with no penalty if it's taking you where you don't want to go.

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Shut up and take my money.

It's not immediately obvious, but the icons floating over each beacon indicate what kind of mission it is. Kill, kill and collect, scout, powerful enemy, scan area etc.

You can also drop a mission with no penalty if it's taking you where you don't want to go.

Yeah, I worked this out, although I was never able to translate most of the icons (the one that looks like an acute triangle I figured out means one where you collect drops from dead enemies, but the rest I didn't ever work out). Trouble is, sometimes a scouting mission will take you somewhere near, sometimes it'll be miles away. More often far away than not, though!

Pyramid = Collect specific drops by killing specific enemies
Pokeball (seriously, looked exactly like one) = Scout an area (perhaps with a Hold X to Scan)
Circunscribed cross = Scout an area (perhaps just by standing there)
5 squares arranged in a big X = Kill enemies to fill quota
And whichever it was I forgot = Kill specific one enemy

Please, do correct me if I'm wrong.

More's the pity, for as much as Halo 3: ODST marks the beginning of the end for Bungie and Microsoft's relationship, it also carries the first seeds of the developer's next grand vision. An experiment in open-world design, a hazy line can be drawn between Destiny's scorched, Fallen-infested Earth and the Covenant occupied New Mombasa.

EG: Halo 3 ODST Retrospective & Comparison.

It kept me in the world and I got really familiar with the environment and it felt really cohesive because of that.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree with you that a real map would lessen the experience. But how about a not-so-good-as-a-map map, like the ones in the Directory?

I mean, it feels good to instinctively know the place, but the first hour or so is frustrating as hell. At least give me a compass of sorts...

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree with you that a real map would lessen the experience. But how about a not-so-good-as-a-map map, like the ones in the Directory?

I mean, it feels good to instinctively know the place, but the first hour or so is frustrating as hell. At least give me a compass of sorts...

I'm curious why the first hour or so is frustrating as hell? The first hour or so I was like "wow this is massive, where should I go (whips out ghost), oh over there"

I'd say, improve the way pointing if they didn't help enough.

Frankly the way they use lights (and this is less effective on 360/PS3) is AMAZING for calling you to locations. I would know immediately that something was a place I could go into because of some kind of light above it or in it catching my eye as I scanned the horizon.

Heck my fireteam and I found a few chests that way, seeing their green light peeking out from the darkness.

I'm curious why the first hour or so is frustrating as hell? The first hour or so I was like "wow this is massive, where should I go (whips out ghost), oh over there"

Heh. For me it was more like "hey, that last mission took me to an interest place. let's go back there in Explore! oh wait..." "skywatch had a cool building I wanted to check out. I'm in the mothyards, so I should just go... oh wait..."

Frankly the way they use lights (and this is less effective on 360/PS3) is AMAZING for calling you to locations. I would know immediately that something was a place I could go into because of some kind of light above it or in it catching my eye as I scanned the horizon.

I was on a 360, so maybe that's why I was more confused than you. :p I certainly hope that's why.

Ahhh I think maybe I was much less keen to get back to any one place in particular and I just wandered and took explore missions when I could.

We totally need a DBO map section where people can upload their maps. Ideally, we'd have a way to download someone else's map, tweak it, then re-upload it.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree with you that a real map would lessen the experience.

I'm not sure I understand why a map would lessen the experience. If anything, having maps helps sell the illusion of a fictional world — it didn't harm the sense of immersion in ODST, and they're pretty standard in other MMOs. Here's an example of a zone map for the upcoming Warlords of Draenor expansion for WoW. Note that you can see points of interest, fortified walls, hills, valleys, rivers and other things that help you navigate:

As well as in video games, maps are pretty cool in fiction too — I've always enjoyed staring at the maps that come with works like The Lord of the Rings and the ASOIAF series. They enrich the sense of there being a real world underlying the stories, and I'm sure it'd help do that with Destiny too.

I'm not sure I understand why a map would lessen the experience. If anything, having maps helps sell the illusion of a fictional world — it didn't harm the sense of immersion in ODST, and they're pretty standard in other MMOs. Here's an example of a zone map for the upcoming Warlords of Draenor expansion for WoW. Note that you can see points of interest, fortified walls, hills, valleys, rivers and other things that help you navigate:

As well as in video games, maps are pretty cool in fiction too — I've always enjoyed staring at the maps that come with works like The Lord of the Rings and the ASOIAF series. They enrich the sense of there being a real world underlying the stories, and I'm sure it'd help do that with Destiny too.

Exactly, it doesn't strike me that people are requesting OS quality maps.

It kept me in the world and I got really familiar with the environment and it felt really cohesive because of that.

It made exploration more challenging, but ultimately more rewarding because of it.

I just don't want to be consulting a map (or have the option) while I play.

And if you can't see why having the option for something can be problematic I disagree with you at basic level.

I just don't want to be consulting a map (or have the option) while I play.

And if you can't see why having the option for something can be problematic I disagree with you at basic level.

I thought it was established at this stage that we're talking offline only. Even so you could still consult it while playing if you were that way inclined.

Is that like Destiny's front page?

How do you pause a shared world?

Actually, I think ODST's gameplay kept ticking even while you were looking at the map.

I just don't want to be consulting a map (or have the option) while I play.

And if you can't see why having the option for something can be problematic I disagree with you at basic level.

Things being optional can be problematic if they're foisting what ought to be a design decision onto the end user to make for themselves (see: Linux on the desktop) rather than being opinionated about what's the right way to do something. But I don't think that applies here.

Different people have differing levels of spatial awareness and ability to navigate in a virtual 3D space. Every time I try to get my fiancée to play any 3D-based video game she gets lost; she just can't get her head around it, and I'm sure she's not the only one. Myself however, I'm usually pretty able to memorise places from a single visit and (assuming they're not identikit, copy and pasted terrain) navigate with ease.

What I'm talking about here is a player aid that players who have no interest in using it aren't penalised for not using; if you're happy using nav markers you're fine, but if you need something else (or are just curious to see a spatial overview of the world) then you have that option.

I thought it was established at this stage that we're talking offline only. Even so you could still consult it while playing if you were that way inclined.

I'm not :)

Being in-game presents all sorts of opportunities for use; you can tell people to meet you at a certain pile of rocks, that's just south of the cave near to Skywatch and they'll know exactly where you mean, rather than having to spend a while searching (of course, you can use the nav markers to find each other too; this is just a crude example).

Any type, I always have, utilitarian and beautiful both, and everything in-between.

I kind of wish that you could see when other characters were looking at the Inventory/Pause screen (like in Borderlands). This way, if I have to go afk and tend to a crying baby in the middle of a play session, people won't assume that I'm lagging out or something.

You can. Ever see their name badge go to "..." ? that means they are looking through their inventory or some such thing. :)

Any type, I always have, utilitarian and beautiful both, and everything in-between.

You'll probably love this site, then.

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Things being optional can be problematic if they're foisting what ought to be a design decision onto the end user to make for themselves (see: Linux on the desktop) rather than being opinionated about what's the right way to do something. But I don't think that applies here.

Different people have differing levels of spatial awareness and ability to navigate in a virtual 3D space. Every time I try to get my fiancée to play any 3D-based video game she gets lost; she just can't get her head around it, and I'm sure she's not the only one. Myself however, I'm usually pretty able to memorise places from a single visit and (assuming they're not identikit, copy and pasted terrain) navigate with ease.

What I'm talking about here is a player aid that players who have no interest in using it aren't penalised for not using; if you're happy using nav markers you're fine, but if you need something else (or are just curious to see a spatial overview of the world) then you have that option.

I still get lost in ODST if I don't regularly consult the map and set waypoints. Sometimes I'll get sidetracked by enemies and end up way off from where I wanted and have to turn around. The facts that you're always at street level and can't see but a small part of the level and that the level is symmetrical and modular and thus a lot of it looks the same don't help. I had this problem in some parts of the Cosmodrome as well as the underground part of the Moon. I think I spent half an hour wandering around in circles in the Rocket Yard area, and my roommate was stuck there even longer. It took me about an hour to find my way out from that snarling maze that is Hellmouth. When I get tired of just wandering and want to get some place specific, I really need a map. I have a very poor sense of direction, and with no easily-visible landmarks to view at a distance I get lost easily. It's not so bad on an open surface area where I can see a long ways away, but when you're in a series of small, interlinking, mostly enclosed areas I can get turned around easily.

Have you seen this before?

Large image.

I still get lost in ODST if I don't regularly consult the map and set waypoints. Sometimes I'll get sidetracked by enemies and end up way off from where I wanted and have to turn around. The facts that you're always at street level and can't see but a small part of the level and that the level is symmetrical and modular and thus a lot of it looks the same don't help. I had this problem in some parts of the Cosmodrome as well as the underground part of the Moon. I think I spent half an hour wandering around in circles in the Rocket Yard area, and my roommate was stuck there even longer. It took me about an hour to find my way out from that snarling maze that is Hellmouth. When I get tired of just wandering and want to get some place specific, I really need a map. I have a very poor sense of direction, and with no easily-visible landmarks to view at a distance I get lost easily. It's not so bad on an open surface area where I can see a long ways away, but when you're in a series of small, interlinking, mostly enclosed areas I can get turned around easily.

It's exactly this kind of scenario that demands an in-game map, imho.

No, what's that from…?

It's a map of Mars(Barsoom) from the Barsoom series of novels by Edgar Rice Burroughs.

It does look like it could have been inspirational material for Bungie, based on the aesthetic…

It evokes a sense of an inhabited Mars that I hope is delivered in Destiny's release.

You can. Ever see their name badge go to "..." ? that means they are looking through their inventory or some such thing. :)

Ha! I love you :)

I had been wondering what that meant and never really remembered long enough to ask anyone! Thanks for pointing it out

You can. Ever see their name badge go to "..." ? that means they are looking through their inventory or some such thing. :)

Oooh, that's what that means.

I hope this stuff is in the Destiny manual.

Y'know, if Bungie really wants to go for that kinda old timey vibe with Destiny, the game should come packaged with a big folder of folded-up maps for each level that we have to sprawl out across our living rooms. Then we'll have to see Guardians stop each other on Sparrows asking how to get to a certain place. Okay, it seems kinda lame when I explain it, but it is totally awesome in my mind.

Yeah, I was thinking the same when this came up last. The classic old PC RPGs always came packaged with a nifty paper map you could reference outside of the game. So many people are ordering digitally these days though. :\

By "real map", I wasn't referring to a map you could use in real-life, but a decent, close-to-100%-fidelity in-game map.

While, personally, a real-life map wouldn't work for me, logistically, I agree it would be kind of cool.

I hope this stuff is in the Destiny manual.

I just hope we get a manual.

(A folded sheet of paper or three page insert does not a manual make.)

And whichever it was I forgot = Kill specific one enemy

Circle with a star in the center, I believe

Shut up and take my money.

I think Levi should sell a limited edition that includes a sketch of our guardian.

More's the pity, for as much as Halo 3: ODST marks the beginning of the end for Bungie and Microsoft's relationship, it also carries the first seeds of the developer's next grand vision. An experiment in open-world design, a hazy line can be drawn between Destiny's scorched, Fallen-infested Earth and the Covenant occupied New Mombasa.

EG: Halo 3 ODST Retrospective & Comparison.

Nice article. I adore ODST.

One of the things I like about ODST was that even though you had the free-roaming Mombasa Streets level, Bungie was kind enough to provide a map so you wouldn't get lost. Considering that Destiny has open-world levels as well, yet on a much larger scale (they feel as big as Assault on the Control Room, and the levels we played in the beta aren't even fully unlocked), I think we could really use a map. You would have to spend a lot of time getting really familiar with these sprawling maps so you wouldn't ever get lost. My roommate got stuck in one area of the Cosmodrome for a good while before he found his way back to the beginning, and I spent about an hour yesterday trying to find my way out of the subterranean areas on the moon. Destiny could really use an ODST-style map so that players who don't have a good sense of direction don't end up lost all the time.

The superintendent would of course have access to a map. The map is downloaded as part of the story. I have an immersion question, though: who in the world of Destiny would have created maps of these areas outside the city? It's understandable that guardians would not have a detailed map. We get waypoints, sure, and I see an argument that perhaps we shouldn't have those either, but I can mostly explain those away by your ghost's scanning of the area.

Our ship does do a nice flyby of the location, so a map of a least the Director's quality isn't that far-fetched, imho.

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