IGN has a new video with Bungie showing off what a Level 29 Titan can do in Destiny.

I can't wait to see the other subclasses in action. This Last Titan of Krypton is so going to be mine.

IGN has a new video with Bungie showing off what a Level 29 Titan can do in Destiny.

Alright. This is starting to look fucking awesome. Some thoughts:

• He was level 29, but his character was 20, suggesting the light or equipment based leveling others have mentioned.
  
• It never occurred to me that there would be different flavors of supers. Obviously, lots of neat possibilities for PvE and PvP
  
• There appears to be a rather large variety of stat strategies and customization. I expect that savvy PvP players will tweak to fit gametype/map.
  
• Watching this made me realize how much I missed playing.

What day is it...still July! Sonofa....

Confusing.

But at least they're explaining it all to us…!

I can't wait to see the other subclasses in action. This Last Titan of Krypton is so going to be mine.

I was kind of hoping they would show a level 29 for each class. Guess I just have to wait until I get my Hunter to level 29 to see how awesome he is.

Where I see this system of you having two separate levels coming unstuck is with expansions. What happens when Bungie first increases the level cap (which inevitably they will do) with either an expansion or a sequel? Does you start levelling from the lower value? Does the upper value get discarded?

Maybe it's a little too early to worry about that, but it's certainly confusing to me.

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I giggled when I saw gear could give abilities. I really really want to run a void Titan, but dang Death From Above + Shoulder Charge looks amazing.

Just, y'know, not at the same time. :)

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They might, the gamertag was Kinslayer, which was the same as the one in those gif's from last week or so. Must have been an ign leak of those, or preview... they're the same thing anyway.

Expect Bladedancer next if that's any indication.

I think that's why they chose "focus" as the title. ;)

Death from Above + Defender Titan = flying bubble shield of death

I mean more storytelling from me. I'm not going to play a character that doesn't have at least one good story written about them. :)

MOAR. NEED MOAR!

Sign me up. :)

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Your level is still 20, so you would increase from there.

When he hovered the cursor over his level at 00:27 of the video, it read as the following:

LEVEL

You have reached Level 20.

To increase your Level above 20, find and equip armor which contains Light.

Earning XP now creates Motes of Light.

Progress to next Mote of Light:

So when an expansion increases the level cap, you'd still be at Level 20 (+ Motes of Light) and would level up from 20. I guess the question is then, do the Motes of Light become proportionately less valuable the higher your base level? Or do they not take effect until you max your level again.. I can't imagine that having an Armor rating of "9 levels worth of Light at 20" would still be offering 9 extra levels of Light when you hit 40, but who knows. I guess it's something we just need to experience for ourselves to really understand

Your level is still 20, so you would increase from there.

When he hovered the cursor over his level at 00:27 of the video, it read as the following:

LEVEL

You have reached Level 20.

To increase your Level above 20, find and equip armor which contains Light.

Earning XP now creates Motes of Light.

Progress to next Mote of Light:

So when an expansion increases the level cap, you'd still be at Level 20 (+ Motes of Light) and would level up from 20. I guess the question is then, do the Motes of Light become proportionately less valuable the higher your base level? Or do they not take effect until you max your level again.. I can't imagine that having an Armor rating of "9 levels worth of Light at 20" would still be offering 9 extra levels of Light when you hit 40, but who knows. I guess it's something we just need to experience for ourselves to really understand

So the way I am understanding it is you will hit Level 20 and start earning Motes of Light. You then will use Motes of Light to buy gear that has the Light attribute which will increase your level past Level 20.

So the way I am understanding it is you will hit Level 20 and start earning Motes of Light. You then will use Motes of Light to buy gear that has the Light attribute which will increase your level past Level 20.

Precisely (I think). That's how I understand it anyway

O_0

I can't wait for this game!!!

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What day is it...still July! Sonofa....

This video is going to make August seem twice as long.

That Titan... and the gear that let's us double dip in the talent tree... Makes me wonder if there will be any triple dipping. :D

…nobody can tell you you're at the level cap, you just know it.

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…which sometimes resulted in horribly imbalanced setups. I'm wondering how this kind of double/triple-dipping talents is going to be balanced in PvP? I know you can only have one exotic weapon and one exotic armour item, but it could give some people a terrific advantage over those without exotics.

IGN has a new video with Bungie showing off what a Level 29 Titan can do in Destiny.

Okay, honestly, I'm a bit overwhelmed. I mean, I saw the potential for this in the Beta, but hearing Sage's explanations of everything, as clear as they were, makes me long for the days where the most sophisticated thing you could do was use the noob combo.

Halo 4 had too many things that seemed to be about the same, and I'm a little anxious about that possibility here.

On the other hand, I survived Mass Effect 1 (twice).

We'll see.

Seeing that video makes the Titan look a bit too lumber-y for my tastes.

How terrific though? My Titan goes from being able to instantly kill three or so people in a small area with a huge cool down to... being able to kill three or so people in a small area with a huge cool down.

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I like this question. This is a very good question.

How terrific though? My Titan goes from being able to instantly kill three or so people in a small area with a huge cool down to... being able to kill three or so people in a small area with a huge cool down.

Doesn't one of the Titan's talents reduce the cool down on Fist of Havoc based on how frequently you melee people? I'm sure that was what Sage's build did. So theoretically you could get a synergy between one bonus talent and another. Depending on just how much these synergies line up it could be either perfectly fine or overpowered. We'll have to see how it works out in practice (but my betting is they'll do a rebalancing pass post-launch once people start to work out how to min-max things).

Apparently this is controversial... :)

They have said the difference between Exotic gear and other gear is that it is "Game Changing" in it's power. So, yes, someone with an exotic weapon and an exotic piece of armor will be substantially more powerful than someone without.

Builds will probably get made that are really directed, but maybe each class will have several options for "maxing out" and we will get to have crazy super hero PVP matches. (That are also balanced) (...I'm a dreamer)

We'll have to see how it works out in practice (but my betting is they'll do a rebalancing pass post-launch once people start to work out how to min-max things).

The idea of min-maxing actually makes my genitals retreat in the same manner as diving into a cold cold ocean does. One of them is more enjoyable however.

Too kind!

The idea of min-maxing actually makes my genitals retreat in the same manner as diving into a cold cold ocean does.

Well steel yourself, because it's gonna happen.

And that depresses me more than you can possibly imagine.

What is depressing about this? (I have no clue about this concept...)

Is it because "min/maxing" makes it so that there is only 1 kind of build for each class or that one class's build could be the "best" build?

What is depressing about this? (I have no clue about this concept...)

Is it because "min/maxing" makes it so that there is only 1 kind of build for each class or that one class's build could be the "best" build?

That's often the problem; where it becomes even more egregious is when players feel compelled to check online for ‘the best build’ (see: Elitist Jerks) and then use that, rather than experimenting with different builds that suit their own playstyle.

Yup, pretty much. The notion of "optimum builds" leaves me cold. I am, of course, completely aware that this is not the case for others, nor am I advocating its removal, just sharing my opinion.

I like this question. This is a very good question.

Bladedancer had a lot of skills I'd love to have, but I'd never want to give up my throwing knife.

That's often the problem; where it becomes even more egregious is when players feel compelled to check online for ‘the best build’ (see: Elitist Jerks) and then use that, rather than experimenting with different builds that suit their own playstyle.

Succinctly expressed. The bolded is where my own preference and enjoyment lies. I favour the gut approach in something like this.

Yes, but you can switch your focus unless you opt to lock in your choice, gaining the extra bonuses that are attendant on said locking in. You wouldn't have to give up your throwing knife, the trade off remaining unknown for now.

Yup, pretty much. The notion of "optimum builds" leaves me cold. I am, of course, completely aware that this is not the case for others, nor am I advocating its removal, just sharing my opinion.

Another reason why investment systems suck big time. They always incentivize gaming the system and optimization over just enjoying the experience.

They always incentivize gaming the system and optimization over just enjoying the experience.

Damn straight!

They always incentivize gaming the system and optimization over just enjoying the experience.

Damn straight!

In a perfect world, there would be a great many "optimal builds" that would allow for fluid dynamics and fast-shifting landscapes. If done wrong, everyone will settle on one or two builds and it'll be boring boring boring.

It would be awesome if many are viable...if build types support a variety of emergent play styles and strategies. That's going to take some really good balancing by Bungie, though. I'm not sure what's feasible or even possible.

Another reason why investment systems suck big time. They always incentivize gaming the system and optimization over just enjoying the experience.

I wouldn't say always, but certainly much too often.

They always incentivize gaming the system and optimization over just enjoying the experience.

Damn straight!

In a perfect world, there would be a great many "optimal builds" that would allow for fluid dynamics and fast-shifting landscapes. If done wrong, everyone will settle on one or two builds and it'll be boring boring boring.

It would be awesome if many are viable...if build types support a variety of emergent play styles and strategies. That's going to take some really good balancing by Bungie, though. I'm not sure what's feasible or even possible.

But that only works if the game itself is the reward. You make a different build, because you want to play the game differently! When you revolve a game around an investment system to build your character (as destiny will with the items pushing you past the level cap), you encourage players to behave in a way to optimize the system.

Another reason why investment systems suck big time. They always incentivize gaming the system and optimization over just enjoying the experience.

I wouldn't say always, but certainly much too often.

I would say always. I have yet to see a single investment system that makes any game better.

Another reason why investment systems suck big time. They always incentivize gaming the system and optimization over just enjoying the experience.

I wouldn't say always, but certainly much too often.

I would say always. I have yet to see a single investment system that makes any game better.

I'd argue D&D, but I could easily see someone pointing out that with tabletop games' much more flexible rules (by their nature) than video games it is much easier to accomodate different playstyles more equally, and one could probably further add that vanilla D&D doesn't do that perfectly well (more out of balance issues than versatility ones, though.)

More generally, it comes down to what makes something enjoyable for a person. Sure, pure gameplay is fun and giving us all the toys at the start is one way to do it, but its not the only way to do it. Look at Minecraft; some people prefer Creative mode because they are invincible, can fly, and have infinite resources, while others prefer Survival mode where they have to gather those resources. Obviously some people merely prefer Survival because of its combat mechanics or reasons other than earning what they use to create, but it isn't a perfect analogy. What I'm trying to get at is that some people find progression in and of itself to be fun, and if the gameplay is fun then the game will be.

Some games do make it so that there are only a few viable endgame options, and that isn't fun. A way around that though is to keep several "endgame" pieces of equipment of similar overall effectiveness but still with wide degrees of variation. And I mean variation within categories, which, judging from the Beta, Destiny at least has the capacity to provide. I'd point to armor that gives a lower bonus but has an ability; wide differences between uncommon weapons of the same type; the different abilities weapons had semi-randomly assigned.

But I think this really does come down to a subjective, as long as Destiny avoids the above-mentioned pitfall or similar snags. There isn't really a right answer to "get everything now" or "earn them", and so I think there are plenty of games that did investment systems well that you wouldn't like.

Finally, (not a complaint), but for having gone dark you're still pretty dang active.

But the best "build" videos/write-ups EXPLAIN how gear and skill tree play off of each other. I wouldn't lump all the folks sharing that info into "elitist jerks" unless they're actually claiming they have the best DPS build ever. Just assume the unwritten "for me" at the end of that claim.

It's just like Borderlands (I know, I keep saying this, but it's true). The endgame is about the right combination of gear and skill tree for your play style and the situation (for example, since I have a Bee and a Sham for my Gunzerker, I can choose between pure DPS and a more conservative build with massive ammo regen). The thing Destiny seemingly does right is to not charge you for adjusting your tree (in Borderlands you have to find a Quick-Change and spend money to reset your skill tree entirely and re-spec).

Yup, pretty much. The notion of "optimum builds" leaves me cold. I am, of course, completely aware that this is not the case for others, nor am I advocating its removal, just sharing my opinion.

Another reason why investment systems suck big time. They always incentivize gaming the system and optimization....

That can be enjoyable in itself.

Yup, pretty much. The notion of "optimum builds" leaves me cold. I am, of course, completely aware that this is not the case for others, nor am I advocating its removal, just sharing my opinion.

Another reason why investment systems suck big time. They always incentivize gaming the system and optimization....

That can be enjoyable in itself.

Oh so you like running circles for an hour farming glimmer? :-p

But the best "build" videos/write-ups EXPLAIN how gear and skill tree play off of each other. I wouldn't lump all the folks sharing that info into "elitist jerks" unless they're actually claiming they have the best DPS build ever. Just assume the unwritten "for me" at the end of that claim.

Just FYI I'm talking about Elitist Jerks the forum — a site where people share the ‘best’ builds for various MMO character classes etc.

Yup, pretty much. The notion of "optimum builds" leaves me cold. I am, of course, completely aware that this is not the case for others, nor am I advocating its removal, just sharing my opinion.

Another reason why investment systems suck big time. They always incentivize gaming the system and optimization....

That can be enjoyable in itself.

Oh so you like running circles for an hour farming glimmer? :-p

As long as I know I'm WINNING.

Actually, looks like the better gear will need more than Glimmer (motes of light, faction rep), so I'm not sure how time efficient running in circles will be.

(plus they will probably nerf that)

Oh so you like running circles for an hour farming glimmer? :-p

Like this guy:

What kills me is how many times he says this is the best way to get stuff. Better than playing a strike, which is a waste of your time! Sigh.

Edit: I forgot about youtube comments and read youtube comments. My eyes!

I think Titanfall's speed has ruined me. :P

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People find different things fun. Some enjoy finding efficiencies, optimizations, and playing "the numbers". Its not for everyone, but is still a valid avenue for fun that many enjoy.

What kills me is how many times he says this is the best way to get stuff. Better than playing a strike, which is a waste of your time! Sigh.

Well, to be fair some people aren't that good at video games ;-)

But seriously, if this guy just wants to play with himself all day and doesn't care to join a fireteam, then maybe this really is the best way. Doing a strike by yourself might be too frustrating for someone with no skills, and it would take so much time with very little payout.

Compared to this where a small group of L4 enemies spawns quickly that you can dispatch in a few seconds? It's not so bad if you don't mind the monotony of it... I don't think I could do this for more than 5 minutes because it seems so boring, but to each their own...

As you level up you can start to adjust your class balance of armor, recovery, and agility. I imagine you can probably make a Warlock roughly have the same balance as a Titan, if you wanted to.

I love Titanfall and I think the vertical movement modes in Destiny really give it that something extra. There's no wall running, but you do feel that you have control over the environment more than in Halo with how you can soar through the air with the various classes. It's different, but I think you'll be happy with, coming from Titanfall.

As you level up you can start to adjust your class balance of armor, recovery, and agility. I imagine you can probably make a Warlock roughly have the same balance as a Titan, if you wanted to.

I love Titanfall and I think the vertical movement modes in Destiny really give it that something extra. There's no wall running, but you do feel that you have control over the environment more than in Halo with how you can soar through the air with the various classes. It's different, but I think you'll be happy with, coming from Titanfall.

Good to know, I've come to realize that I love speed and agility more than anything. Sure, you could tank it up with the Vanguard in ME3, but it was mostly feeling like a hot rod that did it. A hot rod of face smashing doom.

Can you superman smash as far as you can see?

So you level up to 20 with EXP then level up with Light? I guess? This is a bit confusing, but I'm willing to assume there's some valid gameplay justification for this.

People find different things fun. Some enjoy finding efficiencies, optimizations, and playing "the numbers". Its not for everyone, but is still a valid avenue for fun that many enjoy.

But by doing all that, you lose the aesthetic enjoyment of the game…

As Cortana once said, she knows mathematically what a sun looks like, but not what it REALLY looks like.

But by doing all that, you lose the aesthetic enjoyment of the game…

As Cortana once said, she knows mathematically what a sun looks like, but not what it REALLY looks like.

I call bullcrap. Fun's fun, get over yourself.

Can you superman smash as far as you can see?

I don't think so. It looks like there's a finite limit to how far it can go - a couple of times when he activates it, he's looking WAY farther out than where it actually hits.

People find different things fun. Some enjoy finding efficiencies, optimizations, and playing "the numbers". Its not for everyone, but is still a valid avenue for fun that many enjoy.

But by doing all that, you lose the aesthetic enjoyment of the game…

As Cortana once said, she knows mathematically what a sun looks like, but not what it REALLY looks like.

meaning...?
What does this have to do with player investment systems anyway? It sounds to me like it's part of the RPG mechanics. I don't know, maybe I'm forgetting or not seeing how it's both, or I'm just wrong.

But by doing all that, you lose the aesthetic enjoyment of the game…

As Cortana once said, she knows mathematically what a sun looks like, but not what it REALLY looks like.

I call bullcrap. Fun's fun, get over yourself.

If you are in it for the math, why are you playing with a piece of hardware and software that gives you auditory and visual feedback? Go play with a spreadsheet if you find that fun. But if you DO find that fun to the exclusion of the enjoyment of the game aesthetics, ask yourself why you are playing a video game at all. The immersion is the primary benefit to the video game over other media. It'd be like going to a movie and closing your eyes the whole time.

If you are in it for the math, why are you playing with a piece of hardware and software that gives you auditory and visual feedback? Go play with a spreadsheet if you find that fun. But if you DO find that fun to the exclusion of the enjoyment of the game aesthetics, ask yourself why you are playing a video game at all. The immersion is the primary benefit to the video game over other media.

You are talking in black and white again. Enjoying the math of a game does not mean you don't enjoy the aesthetics of a game, you can actually like a balance of both. Removing math completely from calculations a player has to make in a game would actually disappoint a lot of people that enjoy metagames. On the other hand making a game with nothing but math would also disappoint a lot of people. Balance is key. Some people do enjoy the math and calculations in more complex games, like Eve Online for example. Those people aren't wrong, and they obviously don't play it because they are unaware that Microsoft Excel already exists.

If you are in it for the math, why are you playing with a piece of hardware and software that gives you auditory and visual feedback? Go play with a spreadsheet if you find that fun. But if you DO find that fun to the exclusion of the enjoyment of the game aesthetics, ask yourself why you are playing a video game at all. The immersion is the primary benefit to the video game over other media.

You are talking in black and white again. Enjoying the math of a game does not mean you don't enjoy the aesthetics of a game, you can actually like a balance of both.

This is true, however when you work out the fastest routes to get exp, glimmer, whatever, and those things are not intrinsically engaging (A grind if you will, I wouldn't want to run in circles for an hour), then I'd argue that you've lost that balance. Same thing goes for when you work out the best build mathematically to the point where playing the game becomes rote. Etcetera.

But by doing all that, you lose the aesthetic enjoyment of the game…

As Cortana once said, she knows mathematically what a sun looks like, but not what it REALLY looks like.

I call bullcrap. Fun's fun, get over yourself.

If you are in it for the math, why are you playing with a piece of hardware and software that gives you auditory and visual feedback? Go play with a spreadsheet if you find that fun. But if you DO find that fun to the exclusion of the enjoyment of the game aesthetics, ask yourself why you are playing a video game at all. The immersion is the primary benefit to the video game over other media. It'd be like going to a movie and closing your eyes the whole time.

He didn't say he finds it fun to the exclusion of the game aesthetics, just that he finds it fun. What do you care, anyway? I can't decide how to best address the other point but I'm leaning towards "blind people can enjoy movies".

If you are in it for the math, why are you playing with a piece of hardware and software that gives you auditory and visual feedback? Go play with a spreadsheet if you find that fun. But if you DO find that fun to the exclusion of the enjoyment of the game aesthetics, ask yourself why you are playing a video game at all. The immersion is the primary benefit to the video game over other media.

You are talking in black and white again. Enjoying the math of a game does not mean you don't enjoy the aesthetics of a game, you can actually like a balance of both.

This is true, however when you work out the fastest routes to get exp, glimmer, whatever, and those things are not intrinsically engaging (A grind if you will, I wouldn't want to run in circles for an hour), then I'd argue that you've lost that balance. Same thing goes for when you work out the best build mathematically to the point where playing the game becomes rote. Etcetera.

A bunch of people in this thread and previous ones have brought up the point of the combat being fun, and the combat is what we're talking about being repeated, and anyway it doesn't have to be balanced.

I love me a good spreadsheet. I also love me popping caps on Fallen heads. I do not enjoy sparrowing around a map to farm glimmer though. I prefer to get glimmer, encrypted items and such through the designed gameplay. BUT, I am also highly competitive, and I love PvP. It sort of urks (haha) me that people are dull enough to want to farm glimmer for hours to build up their character - because it will give (or could give) them a competitive edge vs. me. However, I would rather play the game the way it was designed to be played (assuming Bungie didn't design in the glimmer farming) and have more fun, than the other way around. In the PvP arena, my desire to be competitive is always at war with my desire to have fun. As long as the players who farm don't get advantages so high in competitive that it robs the PvP of fun, I am good.

Building up a character is a part of the game, and is also tied to the investment system. I will play a game where I get to build a character more because I find it fun. Also, my competitive nature makes me want to play the game how it is meant to be played, or in the play style I prefer and then go after the people who have the "best build" or whatever.

Random note: The glimmer farming bothers me like Black Friday bothers me... People missing the point (one in a game, one in life) in order to get some meaningless advantage (or deal).

The point of a game is to enjoy it. And as long as I can build my Warlock while enjoying how I am going about Destiny, I will be a happy camper. Even without glimmer farming, there will always be people who play the game the way it's meant to be played and end up with a competitive advantage (because they have more time or invest more time). Heck, even in Halo, with no true investment system built into the game - someone who dedicated more time and energy - would end up with an advantage over me (skill, map knowledge, weapon experience, etc).

It even irks me when someone has more time to invest in a game (it's really just competitive jealousy) but that is just because I am a flawed human being.

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I wouldn't be surprised to see the chest spawn rate nerfed for the final release.

You can actually get a good amount of glimmer from pvp if you can get a good amount of kills. I think you get 20 glimmer per kill, it can add up after an playing an evening of DBO vs. The World.

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