http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2014/07/25/opinion-destiny-39-s-story-stalls-out-of-the-gate.aspx

The author has a good point, in that the way story details in Destiny are presented have the HUGE potential to be missed. He didn't exactly take it to the conclusion, but the problem is going to be co-op play.

Unless you decide never to talk to your fireteam, then you are going to be chatting, and missing story details. How are you supposed to focus when your buddy is telling you he just found a golden chest? A chest you say, oh wait I just missed some dialogue. Where did that Wizard come from again?

It seems far more story information is conveyed in your ear than in Halo. Maybe that will change. But, in my opinion, for maximum story impact, you'll need to play alone. Which defeats the purpose of the game. Unless there are way more cutscenes. By the way, is there voice chat during cutscenes?

In my opinion, for maximum story impact, you'll need to play alone. Which defeats the purpose of the game. Unless there are way more cutscenes. By the way, is there voice chat during cutscenes?

Yes there is. I actually was planning on beating the story by myself before playing with friends, since that's what I usually do with games anyway. You'll miss out in some fireteam interaction, but you still get the cool moments with other players in the public spaces.

In my opinion, for maximum story impact, you'll need to play alone. Which defeats the purpose of the game. Unless there are way more cutscenes. By the way, is there voice chat during cutscenes?

Yes there is. I actually was planning on beating the story by myself before playing with friends, since that's what I usually do with games anyway. You'll miss out in some fireteam interaction, but you still get the cool moments with other players in the public spaces.

Yep, and then go replay them with your friends! That's my plan.

Ok... a lot of problems here both with the article and your post.

The article annoys me because it's written from an apathetic and almost lazy point of view. Games like Halo, Mass Effect, and Destiny take some time and dedication to uncovering their lore. You don't play the first missions of Mass Effect 1 and instantly know who the Geth or Turians are or what their relationships to the Humans and Quarians were. You learn almost nothing of Elites, Grunts, Jackals, the Covenant, or the Master Chief in the first levels of Halo 1. In Destiny we run into a pair of races that don't like us and don't like each other but we're suppose to know their histories and motivations? Why?

It's ok to say you don't know a race's motivations yet, before a game is even released. It's also ok to admit you don't remember everything from the early games in a series has stretched over a decade... so far. But to criticize the beta of an as yet unreleased new series when no other series conveyed as much information with the speed you claim is necessary. That seems way overly harsh.

Complaining about terms being reused across series? That pushes straight on into either apathy or intentional goading of a series' fans. For instance, the author is confused about the different between a Ghost (a purple hover bike introduced more than a decade ago) and a Ghost (a floating helper / narrative character introduced recently)? Does he also get confused about the differences between Halo and Call of Duty's Ghosts? How about Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon teams? Those are floaty AIs, right? As a game journalist it is your job to keep series, sometimes even similar series, distinct in your mind.

Complaining about Destiny's quick story intro and opening cutscene where we don't know a lot about what is going on... Again, how much did we know about Mass Effect in its first three minutes besides the small wall of text that told us Humanity had discovered the mass effect? How much did we know of Halo by the time the Master Chief was going through his wake up diagnostics? It's just another short sighted complaint by this author. A series like Destiny, which was said on day one to have a ten year plan, is not going to cram all its story into the first cutscene. Doubly so when that cutscene is explaining that most of the good guy's civilization and history was wiped out... Now he's wanting to go against good story telling in general and specifically against the story of the game he's playing.

In the end, this author got very few terms from any game correct even though he starts out by claiming he's used to sci-fi stories revolving around named characters and locations that don't really exist. Maybe I'm too much of a story person. Maybe the fact that I can, with ease tell, you the histories of Aiur, Palaven, Onyx, Epsilon 3, Risa, Persephone, Tatooine and at least a dozen distinctly different Earth's makes me unusal, but I don't go around knocking betas of brand new video game series for not reinforcing characters the same way a multipart, several thousand page book series has over the past twenty years.

One other thing. I think it's both lazy and insulting to story tellers to fall back on a character's voice actor rather than it's in game name when talking about that character. Claudia Christian is all over Skyrim, but I never referr to any of her generic or named characters as Claudia or Susan Ivanova (the character she played on Babylon 5 two decades ago). Keith David is in both Halo and Mass Effect, but I don't call Captain Anderson or the Arbiter "Keith"... Why do so many people insist on referring to Destiny's Ghost(s) as Dinklage? Yes, I get it, he's a well known actor from a well known series. But he's not playing himself or his Game of Thrones character in Destiny, so cut it out... That's my take on it anyway.

As for you, Cody. Not canon? Really? We've had co-op in Bungie games since 2001 and now missing a line of dialogue because a friend talks to you pushes Destiny's story to not canon status? Give us a break.

In my opinion, for maximum story impact, you'll need to play alone. Which defeats the purpose of the game. Unless there are way more cutscenes. By the way, is there voice chat during cutscenes?

Yes there is. I actually was planning on beating the story by myself before playing with friends, since that's what I usually do with games anyway. You'll miss out in some fireteam interaction, but you still get the cool moments with other players in the public spaces.

Yep, and then go replay them with your friends! That's my plan.

I talked about this a few co-op nights ago. This is the first Bungie game where I'm tempted to play it co-op on my first playthrough--that's what it's designed for, after all. I'm torn, though, for the reasons Cody brings up. One of the reasons I enjoy Co-op Nights is the social aspect. For instance, Paddy's unique stream of jabberwocky is joyously entertaining, and I don't mind not hearing in-game dialogue I've heard 100 times before. That said, I've tried to make those nights more difficult so that there are times when we're forced to concentrate on winning, and the only communication is about the gameplay as it happens. I'm torn when I play co-op even now, you see. One reason I don't like playing in joinable parties is that people who aren't playing the game can join and start talking about whatever, and there are times that's okay. I'm a hypocrite because I've crashed other people's games myself, but if I'm in roleplaying mode, or if I'm playing with someone who i know doesn't know the game as well as I do, then it really, really bugs me because I assume that they want a level of immersion similar to what I would want on my first time through.

My favorite way to enjoy a game is to act like I'm playing a part in a play, or even better, to pretend I really am Master Chief and I'm really in this situation. For Reach and ODST I imagined a backstory for my character, and I tried to experience the game as he (or she) would. Is that doable in co-op? I mean, on some level all these games are like virtual cosplay, but I'd like a fireteam that is serious when they need to be, but willing to laugh at mistakes and crazy stuff that happens, too. Respect for story elements as they appear is a must, of course, and takes precedence over any other kind of communication. Am I weird? Do I take it too seriously? Is it silly to want teammates who are willing to get in character with me?

I assume that Destiny will have plenty of cutscenes to expand the canon and the universe. I for one would like to know who that Hunter is in the beginning.

Just kidding, although I have done it a few times in-game. Would not do it on the first playthrough, though. See my post above.

Nice post.

You could just turn on subtitles if you don't want to miss the dialogue.

You could just turn on subtitles if you don't want to miss the dialogue.

That's a hit on immersion for me. A small one, but still a hit. For instance, I've been looking for a Last of Us walkthrough without commentary and without subtitles to share with a non-gaming friend. Tough to find. On the other hand, given how game sound location is dynamic, it's probably a necessary evil. I've always turned it off during first playthroughs, though.

I think this would solve all the problems...

I guess I'm slightly different with game characters. To me, the Master Chief was always himself. Were there times that I got close to roleplaying him? Yes. Especially when the game's on Legendary and there's an impossible situation in front of me. But even then, I wasn't the Chief. I was... doing what he would have done for him... if that makes any sense at all. Halo is an interactive story about the Master Chief. I was also never Shepard from Mass Effect, despite the customizability. I was just playing his or her story. Same with most other characters. I was never Laura Croft, or Corvo, or Mr. DeWitt.

With ODST and Reach (especially Reach) it was a little different because while both the Rookie and Noble 6 had backstory, they were also more open to being whatever I wanted. Not totally though. The Rookie had fought in battles before and really was only a rookie to that one ODST team. Noble 6 was one of the few Spartan III orphans who just happened to fit Halsey's original stricter Spartan II profiles. He'd been on solo mission before. Flew a Sabre before. Even had a file for Noble 1 to read... so even he wasn't me.

With Destiny, I feel like things have changed. Unless something major comes up, and I highly doubt it will, each of the nearly five million of us who played the Beta were playing their own Guardian. Now, of course not everybody has written 10,000ish words about their Guardians like I have, but the game and the lore gets 99% out of the way of your Guardian being who you want them to be. With the Halos, the characters were never mine. With Destiny, they very nearly are. And for me, than means maybe when I'm playing as Tesni Jarmila I'll not revive someone and instead urge them to do better. Or if I'm playing Natela Tamaya Murk I'll hide behind a corner before "working up the courage" to engage a powerful enemy. I'm not going to ruin a game or allow a loss by being in character, there comes a point where the game comes first, but I'll give myself a bit of latitude to roleplay a bit when it is acceptable to do so.

As for co-op, I really enjoyed playing with everyone during the beta, but I probably will go through the story missions mostly alone the first time.

Am I weird? Do I take it too seriously? Is it silly to want teammates who are willing to get in character with me?

No, you're not, and I think that's the solution to this entire problem to begin with. Play with a group that has the same motivations. If your current group does not, find a new one. Done. Problem solved.

Heh. Might be interesting...

Just kidding, although I have done it a few times in-game. Would not do it on the first playthrough, though. See my post above.

Nice post.

Got a friend who called him the same thing. I prefer Bit.

I mean, on some level all these games are like virtual cosplay, but I'd like a fireteam that is serious when they need to be, but willing to laugh at mistakes and crazy stuff that happens, too. Respect for story elements as they appear is a must, of course, and takes precedence over any other kind of communication. Am I weird? Do I take it too seriously? Is it silly to want teammates who are willing to get in character with me?

That's what I want. Take the story and gameplay seriously, communicate well, have fun, be willing to explore, give the other 2 people time and space to do stuff a little off the story path. Like 3 friends who are on an adventure together, trying to enjoy the journey.

My first play though of Halo 3 was with 2 friends, it was a great time. But at the end of the game, the guy with party lead didn't sit through the credits. So I saw Installation 0 explode and the Arbiter make it through, but I didn't see the post-credit scene where MC and Cortana are alive in the aft half of Forward Unto Dawn. There was about a day where I wondered if Bungie had killed off the Master Chief. ... I don't want that to happen in Destiny.

So if you're looking for coop players, count me in.

I guess I'm slightly different with game characters. To me, the Master Chief was always himself. Were there times that I got close to roleplaying him? Yes. Especially when the game's on Legendary and there's an impossible situation in front of me. But even then, I wasn't the Chief. I was... doing what he would have done for him... if that makes any sense at all. Halo is an interactive story about the Master Chief. I was also never Shepard from Mass Effect, despite the customizability. I was just playing his or her story. Same with most other characters. I was never Laura Croft, or Corvo, or Mr. DeWitt.

The Master Chief is not my creation, but I could still role-play as him.

With ODST and Reach (especially Reach) it was a little different because while both the Rookie and Noble 6 had backstory, they were also more open to being whatever I wanted. Not totally though. The Rookie had fought in battles before and really was only a rookie to that one ODST team. Noble 6 was one of the few Spartan III orphans who just happened to fit Halsey's original stricter Spartan II profiles. He'd been on solo mission before. Flew a Sabre before. Even had a file for Noble 1 to read... so even he wasn't me.

I gave my Six a backstory to supplement his backstory. You can catch a glimpse here.

With Destiny, I feel like things have changed. Unless something major comes up, and I highly doubt it will, each of the nearly five million of us who played the Beta were playing their own Guardian. Now, of course not everybody has written 10,000ish words about their Guardians like I have, but the game and the lore gets 99% out of the way of your Guardian being who you want them to be. With the Halos, the characters were never mine. With Destiny, they very nearly are. And for me, than means maybe when I'm playing as Tesni Jarmila I'll not revive someone and instead urge them to do better. Or if I'm playing Natela Tamaya Murk I'll hide behind a corner before "working up the courage" to engage a powerful enemy. I'm not going to ruin a game or allow a loss by being in character, there comes a point where the game comes first, but I'll give myself a bit of latitude to roleplay a bit when it is acceptable to do so.

Yep, we have more ownership than ever. I guess my point is that I like identifying with the protagonist, whether I have much control over who they are or not. Not having control can lead to some discomfort when games take you places you don't want them to go, but that can be a strength, too.

As for co-op, I really enjoyed playing with everyone during the beta, but I probably will go through the story missions mostly alone the first time.

On the fence.

As for you, Cody. Not canon? Really? We've had co-op in Bungie games since 2001 and now missing a line of dialogue because a friend talks to you pushes Destiny's story to not canon status? Give us a break.

Since 1995. Marathon 2 had co-op.

Not canon = problems with the story. It doesn't literally mean it's not official. I'd have though that would have been apparent by now.

I had issues. I only understood stuff when I started playing alone, in particular because I was paying attention to my fireteam more than the story. That's all I am saying.

I agree and disagree with you here. I found subtitles as an absolutely necessary and very engaging thing in Assassin's Creed, especially when they start speaking in different languages. It's really fun seeing that translate and really brings me in deeper to what's being said, or why, and can really add to what's playing out on the screen.

It's also really helpful to have some words pop up in Mass Effect, especially if I get distracted or happen to miss something being said. The decisions you make in ME2 and ME3 can have some serious consequences, so it's nice knowing that I can re-read what I may have just missed based on something happening in real life, or maybe being in a chat with someone.

I feel like Destiny might really end up benefiting from subtitles. I personally chose to keep them turned off, but I also went through the Beta alone initially. I'm not sure if I'll be doing the actual release version alone from the start because of how massive it is, how long it might take me to beat it, and how having a squad with me could make it more immersive and fun.

Unless you decide never to talk to your fireteam, then you are going to be chatting, and missing story details. How are you supposed to focus when your buddy is telling you he just found a golden chest? A chest you say, oh wait I just missed some dialogue. Where did that Wizard come from again?

If you play with friends who want to know what's going on too this works itself out.

I don't meant to sound dumb but I put not the subtitles for every game I play. It mostly comes from the fact that English is my second language, even though I speak it fluently. However, my brain doesn't always process all the dialogue in some accents, such as British and very exaggerated accents. I put on subtitles with all my TV shows, movies, and documentaries.

And yet, subtitles have never been an obstacle between game immersion and me. Maybe it isn't the same for everyone but I will play with subtitles because that is the only way I can understand everything. Oh well.

I completely agree with your post.

I believe that if you want to be engaged with your fire team AND with the story and cutscenes at the same time, you can. We are all humans and our brains are more than capable of doing this. We do this in every day life and this is just another place where we have to be connected to two trains of thought, and only for a few minutes at a time.

In addition, FIRE TEAMS ARE 3 PEOPLE. If three people can't quite down for 2 mins of a plot or story cutscene or allow your brain to read subtitles, then life must be really hard.

I am not trying to be an asshole to other people here, but I honestly believe that the top post here and the related article are pretty ridiculous.

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I usually keep subtitles on for everything as well. Subtitles help when the music is a bit too loud or a character says something quickly and quietly you might just miss, or for learning how to spell a name. Sometimes you even get funny stuff out of them like Reach's "back this cake"or whatever it was that was said when they blew up the disruption pylon during the big offensive against the Covenant.

Wouldst we speak like that?

Wouldst we speak like that?

If you want a Shakespearean vibe, I'd be down with that, too. I think I tend to speak to myself that way most of the time. :)

"How all occasions do inform against me and spur my dull revenge. What is a man if his chief market and time be but to sleep and feed? A beast, no more!..."

Maybe I should play as the character in the sketch diaries I'm making? Be a bold cartographer scouting the worlds to sell maps back at the forums... er.. Tower!

acting like ourselves would be in character.

In the fiction: Guardians are revived dead people so we could be ourselves revived by Ghosts.

So Cody could, legitimately, be arguing with you about whether comics are a valid medium whilst RC and kapowaz could be complaining about, "this world has too much aberration!".

And the only out of character thing would be the cutscene narration because real life doesn't have narration :-)

We'd all be looking around going, "Is that Peter Dinklage?" and, for us, it would totally be in character.

Whoever that is :-)

Bungie missed a trck...

Nathan Fillion's character could have actually been Nathan Fillion, Claudia Black could actually have been Claudia Black.

Though maybe it'd strain belief to find that all the major characters in the game were, coincidently, all known film, tv, and voice actors. But I think I'm going to make this my head cannon.

Come to think of it: Cluadia doesn't have much to do. Her job is to hand out special stuff from Bungie. I suspect that I may never get anything from her.

And she's such a tease. I walk past and she says, "What have I got here for you? Something special?" And, although I've been burned before, I hold ([]) to see what she's got and then she tells me that I'm out of luck. Claudia!!! Stop doing that, It's not big and it's not clever. :-)

Wouldst we speak like that?

If you want a Shakespearean vibe, I'd be down with that, too. I think I tend to speak to myself that way most of the time. :)

"How all occasions do inform against me and spur my dull revenge. What is a man if his chief market and time be but to sleep and feed? A beast, no more!..."

Now we're cooking with gas!

I agree and disagree with you here. I found subtitles as an absolutely necessary and very engaging thing in Assassin's Creed, especially when they start speaking in different languages. It's really fun seeing that translate and really brings me in deeper to what's being said, or why, and can really add to what's playing out on the screen.

Well, of course! I'm stunned that turning off subtitles turns off ALL subtitles even when other languages are spoken. That's not the standard.

It's also really helpful to have some words pop up in Mass Effect, especially if I get distracted or happen to miss something being said. The decisions you make in ME2 and ME3 can have some serious consequences, so it's nice knowing that I can re-read what I may have just missed based on something happening in real life, or maybe being in a chat with someone.

I don't tend to be in chat while playing single-player games, but I did turn on subtitles for Mass Effect for this reason, after I was asked to make a decision without really hearing the details.

I feel like Destiny might really end up benefiting from subtitles. I personally chose to keep them turned off, but I also went through the Beta alone initially. I'm not sure if I'll be doing the actual release version alone from the start because of how massive it is, how long it might take me to beat it, and how having a squad with me could make it more immersive and fun.

I use subtitles when necessary (some of my favorite films are not in English), but for an immersive experience like a game, my preference is have them off assuming that the sound mix is decent (unlike Halo 4).

I usually keep subtitles on for everything as well. Subtitles help when the music is a bit too loud or a character says something quickly and quietly you might just miss, or for learning how to spell a name. Sometimes you even get funny stuff out of them like Reach's "back this cake"or whatever it was that was said when they blew up the disruption pylon during the big offensive against the Covenant.

That was a "mistake."

I don't meant to sound dumb but I put not the subtitles for every game I play. It mostly comes from the fact that English is my second language, even though I speak it fluently. However, my brain doesn't always process all the dialogue in some accents, such as British and very exaggerated accents. I put on subtitles with all my TV shows, movies, and documentaries.

And yet, subtitles have never been an obstacle between game immersion and me. Maybe it isn't the same for everyone but I will play with subtitles because that is the only way I can understand everything. Oh well.

You don't sound dumb. I have a friend from Belarus who always has subtitles on for exactly the same reason. The fair question is do you use subtitles when watching something in your native language? It seems obvious to me that audio professionals exist in part to make sure that dialogue can be heard and subtitles are therefore unnecessary in an ideal scenario.

Excuse me while I locate an Amish family to hide with for the next ten years. :)

My hearing memory for English completely sucks and I usually cringe at any kind of dubs, so subtitles are a must for me.

Oddly, even with subtitles on and most (if not all) missions of the Beta played solo at least once, I'm still having a pretty hard time remembering the gist of them.

My hearing memory for English completely sucks and I usually cringe at any kind of dubs, so subtitles are a must for me.

And that's perfectly fine. Nowhere did I mean to imply that subtitles are bad. I merely said that if I can understand what is being said then they subtract very slightly from submersion for me personally--Kermit.

Complaining about terms being reused across series? That pushes straight on into either apathy or intentional goading of a series' fans. For instance, the author is confused about the different between a Ghost (a purple hover bike introduced more than a decade ago) and a Ghost (a floating helper / narrative character introduced recently)? Does he also get confused about the differences between Halo and Call of Duty's Ghosts? How about Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon teams? Those are floaty AIs, right? As a game journalist it is your job to keep series, sometimes even similar series, distinct in your mind.

That guy must be so confused switching back and forth between Halo and StarCraft. Sure, both are sci-fi series have humans, a race of advanced aliens with sleek ships, and an organic faction. And they both have a mysterious progenitor race that was defeated by the organic faction and is sorta kinda responsible for the advanced aliens.

But wait, it goes deeper!
Humans in both series make heavy use of Marines! And when StarCraft came out, the Terrans had Ghosts and Wraiths! Halo has Ghosts and Wraiths too! Sure, they're in the hands of the Covenant, but what difference does that make? And let's not forget the golden-armored energy blade-wielding soldiers called Zealots.

But then Halo 2 introduced the Arbiter. Seriously?! After StarCraft's multiplayer was dominated by Protoss Arbiters? And both games feature long-range artillery units called Scarabs? And hovering buglike aliens called Drones?

It goes both ways. Halo 2 introduced the Specter, a Covenant version of the Warthog. StarCraft 2 would eventually introduce Terran Specters and Banshees. BANSHEES! Aircraft with bomb attacks that defy every principle of aerodynamic flight!

Halo Wars really takes the cake. In addition to Ghosts and Wraiths and Arbiters and Scarabs, they had the audacity to introduce the Cobra. The Cobra, man. Twin railguns on an anti-tank vehicle. And then there's the Vulture, yet another angular vehicle that hovers in the air much in the way that bricks don't. And then... and then they gave the Covenant a vehicle called the Vampire.

It can be worse? How can it possibly be worse?! Did Blizzard release Heart of the Swarm with a unit called the Locust or something? And now we have Halo 5: Guardians coming out. How can 343i possibly expect us to differentiate these new Guardians from the Zerg anti-air unit? Or that one British tabloid/ultra-budget toilet paper?

Given the plethora of evidence, we can safely conclude that there is no difference between Halo and StarCraft.

Just think how much fun it would be to troll randoms with Shakespeare in the tower.

Invite them to your fireteam.
Random: "Hey, bro, sup?"
You: "To be, or not to be, that is the question!"

Comedy gold.

You're like a high school english teacher:

Teacher:"Ok.. haha... ok, get this! He... hehe... he bit his thumb at them! Oh hohohahahaaha!"

Class: "..."

I kid. Mostly.

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I do turn it up loud. Too much rock 'n' roll in my youth.

He plays in his bathtub/pool/hot tub

;p

I didn't think that looked right.

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He plays in his bathtub/pool/hot tub

;p

Wait, that's not normal?

Huh. Well now I feel awkward...

He plays in his bathtub/pool/hot tub

;p

Wait, that's not normal?

Huh. Well now I feel awkward...

Next thing he's going to say is that playing on the toilet is not normal either.

Interesting side note:

I watch a lot of sitcoms and they often throw in a character that speaks Spanish. Often, when they use Spanish lines during the show, the subtitle translation is NOWHERE close to what the character said. I always find it hilarious.

But anyway, Spanish wont help me in Destiny. Haha.

He plays in his bathtub/pool/hot tub

;p

Wait, that's not normal?

Huh. Well now I feel awkward...

Next thing he's going to say is that playing on the toilet is not normal either.

Psh, or posting.

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As for you, Cody. Not canon? Really? We've had co-op in Bungie games since 2001 and now missing a line of dialogue because a friend talks to you pushes Destiny's story to not canon status? Give us a break.

Since 1995. Marathon 2 had co-op.

Not canon = problems with the story. It doesn't literally mean it's not official. I'd have though that would have been apparent by now.

I told you guys it was a bad name. ;)

Just think how much fun it would be to troll randoms with Shakespeare in the tower.

Invite them to your fireteam.
Random: "Hey, bro, sup?"
You: "To be, or not to be, that is the question!"

Comedy gold.

"Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or take arms against a sea of troubles, and in opposing them, to die, to sleep...."
"Actually when you die you just come back after a few seconds."
"..."
"You get to keep your, uh, arms, you mean your guns, right? Yeah you get to keep those."
"...
But the dread of something after death, the undiscovered country, from whose bourn no traveler returns--"
"Oh, the Traveler? Yeah, you're right, we don't where it came from."
"...."

Should I remark to them thus? Conscience makes a coward of me.