Ok, so I loved Destiny PvP. I am a long time Halo player and was middle of the road when it comes to Halo (K/D around 1.3-1.5 depending on the Halo version). I feel like a lot of the people who did not enjoy Destiny’s PvP were people who were primarily comparing it to Halo, and felt like the kill times were far too high killing the joy of engagements. This post contains my observations from my 60ish Crucible matches from the Beta. I think the Crucible was a lot of fun, and I am very excited to see how it plays through the level progression.

In Destiny, kill times are somewhere between Halo (long) and COD (short). I heard a lot of people complain that “luck” was the problem, or first seen first dead was the issue. To be honest, those claims blow me away. When I first stepped into the Crucible, I was amazed at how they blended together the features to create an incredibly fun, balanced and unique kind of FPS competitive multiplayer. Why was I shocked by claims that PvP was about luck? Primarily because of the design of the radar and the strategic options we are given through our Guardian’s abilities.

The Radar: I freaking LOVE Destiny’s Radar. It requires thought, map knowledge and discourages camping. Whoever was on that brainstorm team at Bungie - you deserve a raise. I heard people actually say that the radar promotes camping?! WHAT?!? (Sorry, I love the radar so much, I get kind of passionate). The design of the radar is a perfect balance between ease of use and learning curve. For example - In Halo, everyone is on the radar as a bright red individual blip. Unless you crouch (which encourages and benefits crouch camping like crazy). The radar is super easy to learn and use, but it is maybe too useful (gives too much info, while even benefiting crouch campers). In Destiny however, the radar does not tell you exactly where someone is, OR how many people are there! It means you have to use map knowledge, teamwork, or take a risk before engagements. I used the radar to position myself, because I knew the map and the hallway layout, I generally knew exactly where someone was, and I could choose to engage offensively or defensively based off of my current situation (Do I have a super? Heavy ammo? Grenade ready? Is there a spot I can jump to?) Before the engagement even begins, I am fighting the fight strategically. You do this some in Halo, but it is a big part of Destiny. I was always thinking, and I was always thoughtful. Yet, even when I lost an engagement, it rarely felt cheap, unlucky or frustrating, even though I was investing so much thought into my approach. I did get Fist of Havoked by the worst player on the other team sometimes, BUT I let the guy run up on me (in Destiny, you have plenty of time to kill someone before they run up on you. I heard waaaaay to many people say “You die too fast!” and “Some guy ran up on me and Fist of Havok’d me! So cheap and lucky.” Why not just kill them before they kill you because we die so fast in Destiny? Sounds to me like what you are describing is balance.) Destiny is about choosing YOUR approach, weapons, and position and beating other people who are doing the same thing. If you just run in without thinking, you will lose. The Radar is brilliant IMO.

The Strategic Options: I heard countless times how Bungie described approaching PvP with strategy. I remember Lars and Urk talking about the movement modes and map positions in the Jan or Dec Podcast and I thought… I have no idea what they mean. But the moment I started my own Guardian and he started to gain abilities and I started to learn the maps and flow. Destiny’s engagements are complex. Yes, if you both just stand there shooting at each others heads, the engagement is over quickly. But, say someone gets the jump on you. You do realize you have options, right? First, if you use your radar you should have a general if not very specific idea of where the enemy is. In this case, let’s say you don’t know where they are. You still have options. Run, slide, jump, glide, double jump, whip out a shotty and slide in close, duck around the corner whip out your fusion rifle and kill them in one charge, drop your grenade as you duck out, pull out your super and make them regret attacking you… These are just a tiny handful of your options, at LEVEL 8. I’m getting pumped for the game just thinking about it. The whole idea here is this: You pick what you do. You pick how you play. You change and think dependent on how other people are playing. I don’t know of any game that allows this and does it so damn well. COD? Talk about a game where you die quickly, unknowingly and have no idea from where… That game is all about twitch. How about Halo’s Swat? Wasn’t that really popular? And isn’t that definitely, “First Seen, First Dead” I have play a bit of COD, but a TON of Swat through the various Halo’s. Destiny is 1000x more deep than Swat, which is the definitive, first seen, first dead.

A Halo 4 Comparison: I played all of the Halo’s. I am most fond of 2 and 3, but I enjoy Halo Reach a lot. Halo 4, not so much. They got it wrong IMO. The biggest (and most relevant to this discussion) thing is that power weapons are every -freaking- where. Why is this a problem? Because the time to kill is so long with normal weapons, but it is so fast with power weapons. This model works when there are only a few power weapons (Halo 2, 3 and Reach), but it does not work when the regular weapons take so long to kill. Halo 4 is the epitome of frustrating to me. I die in an engagement, respawn with a “normal” weapon of my choice and H4 grenades (read: a joke) - I then run into a guy with a power weapon and have almost NO CHANCE. Now, this make’s sense for power weapons when they are rare, but not when they are everywhere. Once a team gets control, they keep it and it piles on. In Destiny, there is an abundance of powerful abilities and weapons, but the normal weapons are still deadly. I could kill a guy who had a heavy machine guy, if I played him right, if I just ran in, would most likely die (because I am playing to the strength of HIS weapon). In Destiny, you need to play to your strengths, and the strengths of your weapons, but everyone has a chance to strategically win. Will you get Nova Bombed unexpectedly, maybe, but if you know it’s a possibility, is it ever unexpected?

Last, but not least. I am pumped for the other Crucible game types. 3v3 sounds fantastic. Salvage sounds amazing. Revive’s turned on sounds great. I think Destiny and these game modes have the potential to pull in a huge audience to the PvP. Throw in Iron Banner, Trials of Osiris, and Unranked Matchmaking, and there is a spot for everyone. Also, one last point. I played about ⅓ of my matches in a full party of 6, ⅓ in a party of 2-4, and ⅓ solo. All experiences were fun, but obviously the full party of 6 was the most fun (and the most wins).

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The Radar: I freaking LOVE Destiny’s Radar. It requires thought, map knowledge and discourages camping. [...] In Destiny however, the radar does not tell you exactly where someone is, OR how many people are there! It means you have to use map knowledge, teamwork, or take a risk before engagements. [...] I generally knew exactly where someone was, and I could choose to engage offensively or defensively based off of my current situation (Do I have a super? Heavy ammo? Grenade ready? Is there a spot I can jump to?)

I've stripped three choice quotes here, because they perfectly highlight why I gave up so quickly.

I jumped into PVP late. Like, two days before the Beta ended late. Everyone at that point was head and shoulders above me. I knew nothing, because there wasn't a primer for anything. I was entirely ignorant. No idea what guns were useful, or what stats on the guns were useful, no idea where or what I should be doing depending on class... I can't acquire map knowledge (or really any knowledge) when I'm spending all my time dead.

The Radar you love is the Radar I hated. In PVE it was great. In PVP, where I've trained myself to keep one eye glued to it, the position on screen was awful and the information it relayed was next to useless (see: not having any idea about anything because I was spending all my time dead).

Choices regarding engagement? I think I only ever, maybe, got two or three Supers a match. That was hardly ever an option with how fast paced things were. As far as I was concerned, it may have not even existed. Grenades? That's fun. My cooldown was quite a bit faster than the default, but you still only get one, which never felt very useful at all. I maybe had a grenade ready every two or three (or more) engagements. Heavy ammo was a hilarious joke to me, because every time you die (and remember, I died all the time) it evaporates. It was so nice to pick up that ammo and reload my Launcher just in time to die. Or my Machine Gun just in time to fire off three rounds at an aggressor and die.

Learning curves are fine. I don't mind playing a bit shit for a while if I'm learning the game and having fun in the process. Unfortunately with Destiny, I was neither learning, nor having fun. I'm truly glad people like it, and when I see gameplay videos it looks like a lot of fun. My experience was miserable though, probably the worst experience I've ever had playing a new multiplayer game, and I gave up and left after only a handful of games. I'm not going to be in any hurry to revisit it when I finally get to play Destiny.

I got beat up my first few games, but after learning my way around the maps I had a lot of fun. There was a couple of games where we faced off with a very organized team and got destroyed, but that happens sometimes in Halo as well. Where I think they're going to have a problem is not having custom games. In all the previous Halo games I would explore each map by myself and try out the weapons before jumping into multiplayer. Not having that ability is going to be tough on a lot of people.

I'm not going to be in any hurry to revisit it when I finally get to play Destiny.

You should jump on early while the pickings are easy. ;)

Seriously though, I understand where you are coming from, but I'd love to ask you some questions to help get some more perspective.

Were you going into Crucible alone? Were you trying to explore the map or trying to peak at it a midst the action, or did you have no choice due to frequent deaths? Did you play on the winning side of any of your games, were they even close? (I ask because I was thrown in late to a handful of games in a row where we were obliterated or joining a match that was already totally lopsided against us - none of those games were fun) Have you played much COD or Battlefield PvP? Have you played Halo PvP? Do you like those game's multiplayer component? Did you have any fun at all? If so, what was happening during the fun?

I completely get where you are coming from. I couldn't play the PVP worth anything for at least my first 20 games. Like you, I was not having any fun. I went in worried about all the things Bungie had said about faster kill times and it seemed like my worries were justified. I was right on the verge of giving up.

Then it got better.

I'd urge you to try again and give it more games and more time than you think you should. I went in prepared to hate it, did hate it, but then it started to click and looking back now I'm amazed that for the first time in a decade I've found a new PVP FPS that I (will) enjoy.

I loved the PVP. I thought it was going to be a mess of people one shot sniping me and supers and OP weapons, but it seemed pretty balanced to me. (Other than some vehicles. *cough* Interceptor *cough*)

All in all, I had a good time with the PVP. It's not the best thing in the world, but it's not bad at all. (In my opinion.)I look forward to jumping back into the fray when the game launches. (And maybe playing a map other than the Moon. Bleh.)

I'm hoping a lot of the issues you had (particularly getting wrecked constantly) will be fixed with matchmaking tech in the final game.

I'm hoping a lot of the issues you had (particularly getting wrecked constantly) will be fixed with matchmaking tech in the final game.

I hope this is true. I didn't feel like the Beta was matchmade very well. It got better towards the end, but I wasn't sure if that was because people who were not doing so hot were dropping out or because the match making was actually getting better. Out of 60ish games, I probably had 5 or 6 nail biters, 30-40 between 2500-4000 difference and 10-15 blowouts. Would have liked to have a lot more nail biters...

I would assume that the matchmaking in the beta was much less accurate due to simply having far fewer data points to judge players by.

Despite the fact that you played ~60 games, I bet there was a high percentage of players in each of your games that were playing their very first Crucible match--the system would have nothing to predict their performance on.

In the full release game there will be more players and more matches, leading to a stabilizing effect on matchmaking.

I would assume.

I'm not going to be in any hurry to revisit it when I finally get to play Destiny.

You should jump on early while the pickings are easy. ;)

I wish I could. Unfortunately real-life commitments that have lain unattended to for far, far too long require my attention. So while I've preordered the Limited Edition and ensured I can pay for it when Amazon ships it, I'm not going to have an Xbox One to play it on. Hopefully I'll only be a few months late to the party.

Seriously though, I understand where you are coming from, but I'd love to ask you some questions to help get some more perspective.

Were you going into Crucible alone?

I went in with Nomis and two of his friends. Nomis already had a few games under his belt, I can't remember if his friends had the same benefit. It didn't seem to matter much. Our teamwork was minimal because I couldn't seem to keep track of anyone, which was only exacerbated each time I respawned.

Were you trying to explore the map or trying to peak at it a midst the action, or did you have no choice due to frequent deaths? Did you play on the winning side of any of your games, were they even close? (I ask because I was thrown in late to a handful of games in a row where we were obliterated or joining a match that was already totally lopsided against us - none of those games were fun)

I attempted to explore the maps, but the cycle of death precluded me from actually seeing enough to get any sort of bead on what was where, nevermind being able to enjoy the scenery. I can tell you that the Moon was grey and the sky was black and it seemed to be quite large but in general I wound up stuck in a building close to one of the flags. Venus (it was Venus right?) was a maze of green and yellow, no idea what the sky looked like, lots of jumps that I frequently missed because apparently aiming down sights to shoot at people mid jump causes you to fall out of the air.

Have you played much COD or Battlefield PvP? Have you played Halo PvP? Do you like those game's multiplayer component? Did you have any fun at all? If so, what was happening during the fun?

I maybe played CoD once in my life. I don't remember. I know at one point one of my friends dropped CoD 4 in my hands and said "play this". I played maybe half of the campaign before I gave it back. Not interested.

I played a TON of Bad Company 1, 2, and 1943. Bad Company 2 especially, Rush was my bread and butter. I haven't picked up a Battlefield since then. Kill times in Battlefield trend towards extremely quick, but the engagements can be lengthy, and there's more to actually do beyond shooting people in the face, so the kill time never mattered much. I was never leading the scoreboard or anything, but that's mostly because I enjoyed focusing on the team dynamic and helping other players, rather than personal glory.

Halo was my go to multiplayer game from September 25th, 2007 up until a few months after Halo 4 came out. For a time I deeply loved playing Halo 3, but eventually it brought out the worst in me. When I get deeply competitive, I get angry at everything. It started with the Lone Wolves playlist and just spiraled out from there. Eventually I burned out, mostly quit matchmaking unless it was with friends, and began doing a lot of 1v1 custom games with my girlfriend. It was still fun, but most of the joy had been sucked out of it. ODST remains my favorite Halo title, and it's Firefight component remains my favorite Halo gametype. Reach as far as I'm concerned, is the pinnacle of Halo gameplay. It refreshed my interest in competitive Halo, though I made sure I never became as invested in playing as the Halo 3 days. I played more matchmaking than I ever did in Halo 3, and I played more Custom Games than I ever did in Halo 3. I loved Reach, and the only reason I burned out was because I'd played it to death. I was hoping Halo 4 would be a pleasant refresh. That's largely what ODST did for Halo 3, and Reach did for both of them. Instead the sheer number of changes to, seemingly everything, was mostly a turn off. I capped out my Spartan and completed one or two Specializations before I basically called it quits. I was bored with it months after launch, and largely haven't played it since.

I'd love to have a new PVP game to play, and I'd love for it to be Destiny, but these days I find I'm actually more satisfied playing cooperative multiplayer. Bad Company 2 had a co-op mode that was a ton of fun despite the fact it was basically endlessly respawning enemies until you completed an objective. Borderlands is largely the go to game when Lady Phoenix and I play with friends. Saints Row is endlessly entertaining. While I initially decried Mass Effect 3's multiplayer component (and still think many aspects are awful), after jumping in and playing it with a friend it proved to be more fun than I expected. Gears of War's horde mode can provide an evening of entertainment, and I think both myself and Lady Phoenix enjoy the challenge that comes from things getting progressively harder as we grow more battle weary. That all said, if PVP winds up not being my thing, I'm thankful Destiny's coop and PVE is exceedingly brilliant.