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Reviews continue to roll in [Polygon] (Destiny)

by Zeouterlimits, Ireland, Friday, September 12, 2014, 10:19 (3735 days ago)

Note: Polygon in particular are known to update their review as a game evolves

Polygon

I think it's worth grabbing a few choice quotes, before people look at the score and flip tables, there is lots more to read on the site itself.

"employing a pair of writers coming to the game from two somewhat different perspectives"
Gies - "fan of Bungie's work with Halo and am one of the most shooter-oriented players on staff"
Kollar - "has poured thousands of hours into a diverse array of MMOs over the last decade plus, in addition to enjoying the Halo series"

"the suggestion, through Destiny's concept, its soundtrack and its visual presentation, that Destiny is big. That there's a whole universe out there to explore, a reality worth discovering.

There isn't, though."

"Destiny's basic mechanics and controls — movement, jumping, shooting, and melee combat — are sound. In fact, Destiny might have the most fun melee attack I've played in a shooter in farther-back-than-recent memory. The act of firing and aiming while navigating environments is fine, and it could be the basis for a great shooter. It could be, that is, if not for the underwhelming encounters that define Destiny from start to finish."

"fights are not fun. They are not rewarding. They do not make any sense, and if there's a trick to beating them more expediently, Destiny is criminally uninterested in communicating that information. Beating these bosses rarely felt like the fist-pumping triumph I imagine someone thought they might be. Instead, my teammates and I were relieved that it was over."

"Bungie has crafted an astoundingly beautiful and detailed series of ruined worlds to support that fiction, but Destiny seems scared of taking players to the most interesting parts. That devastated city you can see on the skyline? It's going to remain a background fixture while you're stuck running through bland, look-alike factories and "warbases" over and over."

"The awful, jargon-heavy dialogue doesn't provide enough context to flesh out these been-there, done-that video game locales ... result is a plot that feels rushed even though it never seems to go anywhere."

"Beyond the brief, unsatisfying story missions... boss encounters are terrible. With very few exceptions, boss enemies take an absurd amount of damage and require no real strategy beyond avoiding their massive one-hit-kill shots. "

"I endured the tedious slog of these strikes over and over but rarely felt rewarded for my time. Whether you're playing in story missions or strikes, Destiny is miserly with loot drops. "

Re: The Raid

"we'll update the review if it has a major impact on my feelings. But a single new raid isn't going to solve the severe problem the game has regarding its limited amount of dull, overused content.

"It wants to eat its cake as a shooter, and have the longevity of an MMO — but it lacks the combat sophistication of the former, and the deep well of content native to the latter."

6/10

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Now I'm only level 12, so I have a good way to go [damn work!], but I can't say I find any of their opinions too surprising.

Not to say I fully agree with them, I am definitely having fun with the game, but I can see that the narrative is pretty weak, both the structure of the plot and the writing itself feel .. jarring and half-there.
Combat wise, I've had come across both poor and good encounters. The AI does feel more simplistic than Halo's, enemies are a lot better at either waiting to shoot or poke their head around their cover.
That's not to say the game is easier, their weapons & numbers can really sting, sometimes in cool ways, when you clear out a sudden wave of Hive Thralls and a few Acolytes and Knight follow in their wake, making for some fun tense battles, if not quite as satisfying as the encounters in previous Bungie titles.

I can only imagine the Devil Walker strike is similar to how it was in the beta, in which is was me and two friends hiding 30 metres away and pouring all the bullets we had into each leg and reviving the person who would eventually be caught by its one-hitter while retrieving ammo from the spawning in minions.

It definitely felt like a relief upon its fall, but I don't know if that slog was really a bad thing, we did enjoy how difficult it was, the amount of relief we felt added to the overall enjoyment of the victory.

The drop rate, I do agree, is low, or at least low compared to other loot games? It is significantly less that Diablo or Borderlands. Is that to make each piece of loot feel more significant? Because I'm not sure it succeeds, especially when half the loot I get is equal to / slightly less than the loot I already have. Or if is better (numerically) than what I have already, it might be a weapon I'm not interested in using, which is less damaging when you're getting loot out of almost every critter.

So again, I'm enjoying the game, but not surprised by this review.

Reviews continue to roll in [Polygon]

by Monochron, Friday, September 12, 2014, 10:57 (3735 days ago) @ Zeouterlimits

I agree with most of their review, but I still think they are underestimating how fun the gameplay is. Fighting and movement are still fantastic.

Boss fights though . . . I think they have pretty accurately described. There is next to no strategy needed to take them down, just spray and pray at weakpoints or their heads. Cody Miller's (and other's) recommendations for changing bosses to have dynamic strategies would be a huge improvement over what we see now. What we have now is fun fighting when moving from enemy to enemy, but tedium when fighting the same enemy for multiple minutes. There are a lot of ways to fix that, but I don't like the fact that Bungie thought that kind of boss behavior was okay to leave in the game.

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Reviews continue to roll in [Polygon]

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, September 12, 2014, 11:22 (3735 days ago) @ Zeouterlimits
edited by Cody Miller, Friday, September 12, 2014, 11:37

I would say that I generally agree with the review. Destiny is at its best when you are doing the story missions and not fighting bosses.

When I reached level 20, my enthusiasm diminished substantially. All that's keeping me from creating a new character or going back to Last of Us on Grounded is the promise of the raid which is supposed to be super cool. (I will wait until I do the raid to write my review of the game). Otherwise, I have no desire to grind the same shit over and over.

The length of strike bosses is problematic, especially when you ask players to do them over and over. This is why most bosses in good games are around 90 seconds at most. Longer bosses change forms. The fights are challenging only by virtue of them taking for-fucking-ever.

I will talk about the story presentation next week though, when everybody is through it and can read spoilers. Needless to say, the game did not do a good job of bringing life to the world.

Has anybody played Lunar 2 Eternal Blue? It's a JRPG for Sega CD, and remade on Playstation. When you beat it, you finish the story, which is itself satisfying, with a beginning, middle, and end. If you save after the credits though, you unlock the epilogue. Basically, you can bookend the story and get a 'good ending', and tons of areas that were either inaccessible, or too high level are now open to you. I'd say the epilogue is about 25% as long as the main game. The dungeons are filled with tough bosses, there are tons of new areas and quests, etc.

That's what needed to happen in Destiny. We needed an Epilogue for level 20 players. Tons of exclusive stuff. This is where you can do the missions that add flavor, or even do it like Lunar and extend the main story.

Level 20 is a desolate wasteland of a grind. The fact that Bungie thinks THIS is the real game is so damn disappointing.

You'll get your money's worth if you view and play it like Halo, from start to finish in the story mode. I remember Bungie warning people that early reviews might be misleading, which is funny because the very thing they could cover well - the story mode - is also the best part of the game.

The grind sucks

by Avateur @, Friday, September 12, 2014, 11:37 (3735 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I wasn't sure I was going to post, but yeah. I didn't feel like anything was a grind at all until I hit 20. Now apparently I need things with Light in order to continue getting stronger, but no matter what I do I can't seem to get any items with Light. I have two. These items don't show up very well at random, and it prevents me from doing these harder strikes or doing whatever else it is this game now wants me to do. Highly disappointing.

Crucible doesn't have very many options, and Bungie is making an incredibly stupid decision by opening up certain playlists only for certain times. Call of Duty and Master Chief Collection will come out in November and drop Destiny's population like a ton of bricks barring some substantial changes or actually truly non-grindy and awesome content.

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The grind sucks

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, September 12, 2014, 11:39 (3735 days ago) @ Avateur

Crucible doesn't have very many options, and Bungie is making an incredibly stupid decision by opening up certain playlists only for certain times.

You know why? Investment system. They can open up playlists and offer rewards and shit. I cannot wait until everybody comes around to see how investment systems ruin games, as some of you already are. Literally half the time I've spent playing this game has been tedious, and boring. If any other game were stupid half the time, it would be panned.

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The grind sucks

by car15, Friday, September 12, 2014, 11:51 (3735 days ago) @ Cody Miller

#codywasright

:P

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Start Trending

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, September 12, 2014, 12:11 (3735 days ago) @ car15

#codywasright

:P

https://twitter.com/search?q=codywasright&src=typd

Only four tweets, and none are about Destiny.

Let's get this trending along with #DestinyIsNotCanon

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The grind sucks

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Friday, September 12, 2014, 12:03 (3735 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by uberfoop, Friday, September 12, 2014, 12:08

If any other game were stupid half the time, it would be panned.

Well, for what's arguably the most highly-anticipated new IP ever, it isn't exactly doing well. Metacritic currently pegs it at 75, which is barely above KZSF (whose reception was a pretty tremendous flop, and whose MP population was pretty well dead a couple months after release).

The grind sucks

by Fuertisimo, Friday, September 12, 2014, 12:58 (3735 days ago) @ uberfoop

This is the kind of game that is going to flop with critics. It's got great, polished shooting mechanics and it probably is a bunch of fun to just run around shooting things with your friends, but my god did they fuck up so hard in so many of the other aspects.

The game I was lead to believe it was going to be is nothing at all like the game that it is.

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The grind sucks

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, September 12, 2014, 16:01 (3735 days ago) @ Fuertisimo

This is the kind of game that is going to flop with critics. It's got great, polished shooting mechanics and it probably is a bunch of fun to just run around shooting things with your friends, but my god did they fuck up so hard in so many of the other aspects.

The game I was lead to believe it was going to be is nothing at all like the game that it is.

It almost feels unfinished. The reef is literally only two cutscenes, not a place you can go.

Reviews continue to roll in [Polygon]

by Fuertisimo, Friday, September 12, 2014, 12:54 (3735 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I would say that I generally agree with the review. Destiny is at its best when you are doing the story missions and not fighting bosses.

God I hope that's not true. I'm halfway through the moon and holy shit are story missions boring. I actually turned it off after about 90 minutes last night because I couldn't motivate myself to keep playing.

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With the Highs, come the Lows.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Friday, September 12, 2014, 13:46 (3735 days ago) @ Zeouterlimits

I think Ars said it best:

Seriously, who is Rasputin?

After beating the story and reaching the game's highest experience point level, Destiny reaches an "endgame" state in which players are expected to return and, well, replay the four planets' worth of content on offer. These sessions jack up the difficulty and dole out new types of in-game currency, which can be spent at the hub town's many shops to buy even better weapons and armor, which will be needed to take on the even tougher replay content. Keep it up, and you'll continue on a path of buying better gear for harder missions in order to get better gear for harder missions—and on and on.

Essentially, this is what we do in ALL games - more or less. The difference is that Destiny is built off of this idea. This changes things, makes us more aware that were are doing the same thing - over and over. Once we become aware of that - we become disinterested.

I ask my self - How many times did I play Left 4 Dead, even on the Hardest mode? Months and Months. I did the same thing again and again. Yea - it had "the director" so the AI wasn't always in the same place and all that - but I still was essentially doing the same thing.

Same thing for Mass Effect - though admittedly the story (which I haven't completed yet for Destiny) was far better. That's another post for another time.

At risk of perceived chest thumping; I find what I said in my beta review (in the "Enemy’s that won’t die" section) is ringing true. The elements are there, but the mix isn't right yet.

I look forward to seeing what Bungie will do - their response will mean more then what they made.

With the Highs, come the Lows.

by Avateur @, Friday, September 12, 2014, 14:40 (3735 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

I look forward to seeing what Bungie will do - their response will mean more then what they made.

Agreed. Assassin's Creed was awesome and actually provided a story that made people give a damn. The gameplay had many problems. AC2, and in particular Brotherhood, were so unbelievably awesome. Bungie has gameplay in general down. Can they somehow alter the bullshit grind mechanic in a positive way, and can they somehow start making their story work better. Planting seeds is great, but if you can't suck the audience in to begin with, well, you may just lose that audience and they may never come back.

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With the Highs, come the Lows.

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Friday, September 12, 2014, 14:55 (3735 days ago) @ Avateur

I look forward to seeing what Bungie will do - their response will mean more then what they made.


Agreed. Assassin's Creed was awesome and actually provided a story that made people give a damn. The gameplay had many problems. AC2, and in particular Brotherhood, were so unbelievably awesome. Bungie has gameplay in general down. Can they somehow alter the bullshit grind mechanic in a positive way, and can they somehow start making their story work better. Planting seeds is great, but if you can't suck the audience in to begin with, well, you may just lose that audience and they may never come back.

I was shocked by how everyone felt about the story, until I realized I read all the Grimoire cards as I went along. And if that's required for the story, they probably do need to do some adjusting.

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With the Highs, come the Lows.

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:00 (3735 days ago) @ Xenos

I was shocked by how everyone felt about the story, until I realized I read all the Grimoire cards as I went along. And if that's required for the story, they probably do need to do some adjusting.

I'm personally fine with text auxiliary content, but the lack of in-game access is absolutely baffling, especially after all the criticism directed at 343i's Waypoint terminals. I would be reading them as I go if it were convenient.

Someone at Bungie should play Mass Effect

by Avateur @, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:03 (3735 days ago) @ uberfoop

Because I've only read a bit of the Grimoire stuff, and a ton of it is wonderfully written and really well done. It does add to the story. The thing is, it should also be available in a Codex type of fashion in-game for people to read. I'd call it a pretty big sin of gaming to have all this wonderful content and only having it available outside of the game.

With the Highs, come the Lows.

by Monochron, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:34 (3735 days ago) @ Xenos

I was shocked by how everyone felt about the story, until I realized I read all the Grimoire cards as I went along. And if that's required for the story, they probably do need to do some adjusting.

I heard the new Quinten Tarentino movie is coming out soon. Apparently it is 2 hours of non-stop action, special effects, and blood; it gets really intense. If you want to know who the characters are, the reasons they are fighting each other, or what is happening from scene to scene, you can just bring your internet enabled device into the theater, download the "Movie Story Cards(tm)", search through them for relevant information, and read along during the movie!

  • Don't know who that creepy guy following the main character is?! Read all about his motivations in the "'Creepy Guy' Movie Story Card(tm)".
  • Wondering what this sense of urgency is everyone is talking about?! Read about how the main character is in danger in the "'Why are we all gonna die?' Movie Story Card(tm)"
  • Confused as to how a sword could be so devestating to an army of people with guns?! "Movie Story Card(tm)" not yet released, buy our next movie for more!

.
.
.

Why is this kind of thing acceptable in video games today?

With the Highs, come the Lows.

by Monochron, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:50 (3735 days ago) @ Xenos

More importantly than my other sarcastic comment, is that the Grimiore cards in no way make up for the complete lack of characters and narrative in the first half of the game. Literally not a bit of character development happens until after you beat all of Old Russia and all of the Moon. There are no real characters until Venus (Dinklebot doesn't grow a personality until you get there) and even then ever character appears paper thin and cliched so far.

In the parts of Venus I have played so far there is absolutely zero story depth. There is plenty of back-story depth but I don't get to play the back-story.

With the Highs, come the Lows.

by Fuertisimo, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 13:20 (3734 days ago) @ Monochron

TBH I was shocked at how good the first couple of cutscenes were with the stranger and then the queen at the rift were. It was like I was playing a completely different game all of a sudden. Those cutscenes had characters with personalities, they displayed humor, the animation was excellent right down to the subtle facial expressions, the voice acting was top notch as well. I suddenly gave a damn about what was happening in the game.

Which left me thinking, why the fuck did I have to plod through 10 hours of bland nonsense to get to this? I haven't finished the game yet but evidently that's a letdown too.

So we know Bungie didn't suddenly forget how to make games, but evidently they felt they only needed to include about 10 minutes of actual storytelling and plot development.

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With the Highs, come the Lows.

by car15, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 13:55 (3734 days ago) @ Fuertisimo

They had to attract that casual / CoD crowd. Those guys don't like story, right? Anything more than a line of expository dialogue from Dinklebot puts them right to sleep... like Fluffy from Harry Potter!

No, no, we can't have that. Staten, take the story out. We've decided we don't need it. We'll put it in Grimoire cards instead.

Staten?

...Staten?

What do you mean you're leaving Bungie?

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