Destiny is a great FPS. It has a fun story (mode), lot's of extra shooter activities (Strikes, Patrol, Modifiers, PVP Treasure Hunting, etc), but it is not an MMO. It borrows some elements from MMO's, but it is NOT an MMO. Bungie repeatedly said this. Destiny is a new kind of shooter.

If you come to it with a World of Warcraft perspective, it pales in comparison to the content available in that game. (and you will be disappointed in the content)

If you compare it to A+ ranked shooters, Halo 3 for example - IT HAS A TON OF CONTENT.

I think the reviewers had a hard time placing this game in the right genre. I think Bungie saw how many people played through Halo campaigns over and over and over and over... And they thought, "Hey! Let's make a game with more campaign type stuff, better gameplay, more customization, lot's of scales of difficulty, lot's of optional modifiers, and let's give people rewards for replaying the same content (although a LOT more content) over and over and over again.

With that mindset - if you compare Destiny to a normal FPS, it has a lot of content, with rewards for people who really press the difficulty and really like to replay the same content. However, if you like WOW type MMO's where the world is too big to explore - you will feel like Destiny is repetitive. If you don't get this, you won't get Destiny, and you will feel shorted.

This is why so many reviewers seem confused. Destiny is a GREAT shooter. The gunplay, the weapons, controlling a guardian - it is all executed so well. Every reviewer agrees. The PVP is incredible, they fixed a LOT from the Beta (if you hated the Beta PVP, you may love the full game). However, the reviewers came to Destiny expecting MMO content, and often call it an MMO. What is interesting about that, is that while Destiny uses the same content, (and obviously Bungie consider's playing the same strike with different modifiers or a different class an extension of the content) the level cap is hard to reach. (Are there any 28+ guardians yet?)

To me, Destiny is a great foundation, they built a nice 3 bedroom house, beautifully decorated, with a full finished basement and lots of space... But lot's of reviewers and players were expecting a mansion or a neighborhood. If that is you, eventually, Destiny will grow to that (I am guessing this is the current aim of the games progression, adding to what is already here, expanding the world we already have).

In my opinion this is a world class shooter. It doesn't innovate the genre, but it is almost perfectly executed. It has the potential to innovate the genre by growing into a size that I think everyone expected in the first release. One day we will have travels to Europa, to other places on the Earth, to a terra-formed Neptune? But for now, we don't.

I feel like I get it, I get what Bungie was trying and what Destiny is about. They were taking what really worked well in Halo (great shooter) and multiplying that content 5-6 times and giving people rewards for playing through it over and over on multiple difficulties.

As an MMO - Destiny deserves a 6 or 7

As an FPS - Destiny deserves a 9 or 10.

People are confused... Bungie knew it was hard to grasp, and it looks like it is hurting them even though they RAN from the idea of this being an MMO.

Bungie did a bad job of getting the game across to consumers pre-release. Until I played the beta, all I had were expectations and interpretations of VERY vague statements to go on.

Others will disagree with me, but I think that marketing strategy was intentional. Keeping the nature of the game vague generated hype, which increased sales.

Agreed!

Halo to me used to mean two 8 hour campaigns, Heroic and Legendary. I would play them both, usually alternating, forever until and after the next Halo game. Once or twice I might to it on Easy or Normal to hear all the marine chats and explore.

Destiny has a few great moments. Really loved the van cleef homage. Needs more spaceships and wheeled vehicles, and it's lost some great Halo standbys like custom games, splitscreen, the gimmick/special levels (LNoS, Any warthog/tank level) and the minimalist (except Halo 2) script that drove your single minded murder man John 117 to victory. But what we have is a whole lot of wicked sick Bungie Shooter, which were always the best parts. It also works a LOT better in co-op, a focus which may alienate a lot of people. Especially anti-social, race to complete and review Journalists.

I just don't see how it's a 6... a few loading screens and bit of apparently dodgy dialogue are not worth that kind of scorn, are they?

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the gimmick/special levels (LNoS, Any warthog/tank level)

Well, the "hit" on the Cabal general can be a vehicle-heavy Strike if you want.

-- Steve rather enjoyed that one, actually... though he kinda wishes the vehicle portion was the climax encounter of the mission instead of a mid-point.

Bungie did a bad job of getting the game across to consumers pre-release. Until I played the beta, all I had were expectations and interpretations of VERY vague statements to go on.

Others will disagree with me, but I think that marketing strategy was intentional. Keeping the nature of the game vague generated hype, which increased sales.

Your cynicism is becoming a drag, man. I think it has always been a difficult game to describe because it doesn't quite fit in any category, and you can see even now if you've watched any of the critics' roundtables. In my opinion, there were very few inaccurate or even misleading statements (from Bungie at least). They've also been very open about the fact that this is a work in progress and would continue to be after launch. I think they worked hard to dissuade people from getting the wrong idea, but it was hard work, in that I scarcely saw a single interview with a Bungie person where they weren't having to bat back misconceptions or criticisms because they hadn't yet talked about [insert feature here] that we expect from all our [insert favorite genre] games.

Hmm.

I've just been let down so many times by big video game franchises in the past 3-4 years that it's really hard for me to not be cynical.

Bungie did a bad job of getting the game across to consumers pre-release. Until I played the beta, all I had were expectations and interpretations of VERY vague statements to go on.

Yep.

Others will disagree with me, but I think that marketing strategy was intentional. Keeping the nature of the game vague generated hype, which increased sales.

I think maybe it was just the way Bungie has done things for a decade or more. It's not like we got any more info on any Halo game after all. I think the stronger surface storytelling of Halo did a lot to excuse them of their poor marketing efforts. But what worked in the past did not work with Destiny. They were trying to set up a new franchise but were trying to use the same marketing strategy that they used when setting up and returning to Halo for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th times.

Why not show us a fast, sped-up fly through of all four worlds? Or even just one of them? Why not show us one complete Destiny cycle (Tower, to Orbit, to Director, to FTL, to open world, to mission, and back to Tower) instead of a single strike without first going through the open world and a modified version of the opening tutorial gameplay segment? Maybe then people would have gotten Destiny before the beta.

Post-release, it would be nice if they would share at least the outline of their plan going forward. Is Destiny 1 meant to last 10 years? Or will there be a Destiny 2 in just three years? Will there be new kinds of missions and gametypes added? Will we eventually explore similarly sized patrol zones on the outer planets, more on the planets we know? I get not wanting to promise too much, but staying silent on the future certainly didn't get them good reviews.

In the end, if Destiny's story presentation is bad, the years of marketing leading up to it were atrocious.

Bungie did a bad job of getting the game across to consumers pre-release. Until I played the beta, all I had were expectations and interpretations of VERY vague statements to go on.

Others will disagree with me, but I think that marketing strategy was intentional. Keeping the nature of the game vague generated hype, which increased sales.

Your cynicism is becoming a drag, man. I think it has always been a difficult game to describe because it doesn't quite fit in any category, and you can see even now if you've watched any of the critics' roundtables. In my opinion, there were very few inaccurate or even misleading statements (from Bungie at least). They've also been very open about the fact that this is a work in progress and would continue to be after launch. I think they worked hard to dissuade people from getting the wrong idea, but it was hard work, in that I scarcely saw a single interview with a Bungie person where they weren't having to bat back misconceptions or criticisms because they hadn't yet talked about [insert feature here] that we expect from all our [insert favorite genre] games.

Agreed. I think most everything they said we'd get we got in the final game and there were very few things even implied that we didn't get. But, if it's hard for people to get a sense of [insert feature here] why not... show [insert feature here]? As I said below. I think one complete gameplay loop from the Tower to a mission and back to the tower to sell stuff would have at least given people a reference to all the stuff they talked about over the last few years that never sank in until the beta.

I just don't see how it's a 6... a few loading screens and bit of apparently dodgy dialogue are not worth that kind of scorn, are they?

This is remarkably disingenuous. Glibly dismissing the shortcomings as a bit of dodgy dialogue and some loading screens... Well this isn't going anywhere then.

Hmm.

I've just been let down so many times by big video game franchises in the past 3-4 years that it's really hard for me to not be cynical.

That's fine, but as I scan down the page I see a lot of posts by you, and they're all mostly the same. I like reading all the posts here, but I've found myself skipping yours more because I feel like I already know what you're going to say. Not that your opinion is invalid, or that I don't agree with you in some cases, it's just that you've been repeating your disappointment a lot. And it's all right to be disappointed. It's just sometimes people don't like to read it over and over, especially on a fan site.

Point taken. I'll try to post less.

Although frankly... and I know this is going to start some shit, but I'll go crazy if I don't say it... I think the fact that this is a fan site means that a lot of you are willing to give Bungie a pass, or the benefit of the doubt, on some shit that you'd never tolerate from other developers. Case in point, the story. We're told to be patient because the story will expand with time, but if a game from any other developer shipped with a story this poorly presented, would you give them that same benefit of the doubt.

I don't know. I'm probably being unfair, and I apologize for that. I've said this before, but I have realized that I'm not exactly a Bungie supporter so much as I am just a big fan of their games. Frankly, the company itself kind of pisses me off. This is going to be an angry mini-rant, so skip past it if you don't want to read that sort of thing. Recent behind-the-scenes drama notwithstanding, what kind of hubris does it take to declare that your game will be "bigger than Halo" when you haven't backed that up at all with a competent demonstration of the game? They're so hyperbolic in the way they talk about themselevs and their work that it actually harms the reception of their games upon release. People expected so much from Destiny because they wouldn't shut up about how big and revolutionary it was, but they also wouldn't provide any solid information on the game. Maybe they should have fucking toned it down a notch and talked about things like the importance of loot/grinding or the basic flow of the game? You know, to actually give people an idea of what the game is actually like? And then the hubris it takes to go on about how amazing your game is when every mission in a given mode follows the exact same pattern...

Destiny isn't for me. I know that and I've said that many, many, many times. (Sorry for that. Like I said, I'll try to tone it down.) But I think Bungie isn't for me either.

Either that or they're just really, phenomenally bad at marketing. Destiny is a hard game to describe, but nobody had any idea what the hell it was before the beta, and that could have been remedied with more demonstrations of the orbit UI and the general flow of the game.

(Typed on my phone so it's an organizational and grammatical mess.)

Point taken. I'll try to post less.

Although frankly... and I know this is going to start some shit, but I'll go crazy if I don't say it... I think the fact that this is a fan site means that a lot of you are willing to give Bungie a pass, or the benefit of the doubt, on some shit that you'd never tolerate from other developers. Case in point, the story. We're told to be patient because the story will expand with time, but if a game from any other developer shipped with a story this poorly presented, would you give them that same benefit of the doubt.

I don't know. I'm probably being unfair, and I apologize for that. I've said this before, but I have realized that I'm not exactly a Bungie supporter so much as I am just a big fan of their games. Frankly, the company itself kind of pisses me off. This is going to be an angry mini-rant, so skip past it if you don't want to read that sort of thing. Recent behind-the-scenes drama notwithstanding, what kind of hubris does it take to declare that your game will be "bigger than Halo" when you haven't backed that up at all with a competent demonstration of the game? They're so hyperbolic in the way they talk about themselevs and their work that it actually harms the reception of their games upon release. People expected so much from Destiny because they wouldn't shut up about how big and revolutionary it was, but they also wouldn't provide any solid information on the game. Maybe they should have fucking toned it down a notch and talked about things like the importance of loot/grinding or the basic flow of the game? You know, to actually give people an idea of what the game is actually like? And then the hubris it takes to go on about how amazing your game is when every mission in a given mode follows the exact same pattern...

Destiny isn't for me. I know that and I've said that many, many, many times. (Sorry for that. Like I said, I'll try to tone it down.) But I think Bungie isn't for me either.

Either that or they're just really, phenomenally bad at marketing. Destiny is a hard game to describe, but nobody had any idea what the hell it was before the beta, and that could have been remedied with more demonstrations of the orbit UI and the general flow of the game.

I think this perception that Bungie is arrogant is behind the blowback that I perceive in some of the reviews. (I also predict a reformation or "comeback" at some point down the line.) From my point of view they have ambition, which is something different, but that ambition can come across as arrogance if that's all you know about them. Some pull-quotes from the vidocs can be hyperbolic. That said, when you say they declared the game would be bigger than Halo, are you talking about CJ Cowen's quote from the Pathways vid?

We didn't even know how big Halo was going to be, and how can anything be bigger than Halo? Well, we'll find out.

Maybe that's a straight-up declaration in your book, but it's something less to my ears. Perhaps my perceptions are tempered by the humility I see them display over and over. They admitted their failures in Halo 2 in the making of doc! It's not the same Bungie now, some might say, but I was struck by this line in the Patch update last week:

We want to improve, grow and evolve Destiny in the coming weeks, months and - hopefully - years. [emphasis mine]

I've been lucky enough to have a few conversations with some Bungie people, and they strike me as their own harshest critics. Did you see the Bungie panel at PAX? Not the least bit slick or stuffed with bullet-point marketing speak (which is why I loved it!). The work they do sounded like a struggle, and their internal mantra--"we're not the best" is the antithesis of hubris. Launch day I played a game with a Bungie employee, and he kept repeating, "We've got a lot of work to do."

You have your perceptions and I have mine. I am a Bungie fan because their games have brought me fun and friendships, and I've always liked their relationship with their fans, and their attitude. I remember when their world domination plan was humorous in part because they were underdogs. Perhaps many believe they no longer see themselves this way, but I think with each game they've set difficult challenges for themselves so that odds would be against them. I think that's how they work. Destiny might be a failure by some measures, but I hope they'll adapt and make good. For instance, ODST, to my mind, was a love letter to all of us who wanted the urban combat that was cut from Halo 2.

We'll see. In the meantime, I certainly haven't stopped having fun yet.

They repeatedly referred to it as a "shared world shooter." I find myself having a hard time trying to describe to friends who waited to buy and want to know what it's like. Now, with the benefit of heinsight, I can see what they meant with statements that, at the time, seemed vague. It truly is something you have to experience. After that experience, you can decide whether it is for you or not for you. Unfortunately, with the hype around the game, those that Destiny is not for are very angry and feel misled. The beta was part game test and part expectations check. We really did get what Bungie promised to deliver, you just have to revisit what was said and what you heard. They probably said "shared world shooter with various locations to explore and grow over ten years" and what you heard was "Massive MMO with six open world locations at launch." Critics fall to this as well. It's a diffictul game to put in a genre, so they put it in the place that they can reconcile and review based on that.

They made a trade off. Every business makes trade offs. They decided to make a really great game for people who "get it" (I hesitate to use that term because it implies a flaw in people that don't "get it." Know that I do not mean that. It's just easier to describe this way.), the trade off is that those who don't "get it" or wanted an MMO despite numerous attempts at avoiding that label, are not meant to like Destiny. It's not a game that is catered to everyone, it doe snot have mass market appeal. It's not a Toyota Camry, it's a Tesla.

I am confident in one thing though, we're at the beginning of something pretty awesome and it's going to be a fun ride.

This is a bit of an aside, but how is aiming to be better hubris? Maybe if you provided the quote and the context it would be more clear to me, but I don't understand how is expecting to be bigger (in whatever definition) and better than Halo is Hubris if they are the ones that made Halo. Doesn't everybody aim and hope to do better work than they have in the past? Doesn't everyone dream of being better at a task? Again, maybe the context spells it out, but I would interpret that not as "We're better than them" but as "we're better than ourselves 10 years ago".

This post feels disingenuous. Reviewers aren't "confused". They just don't like the game. Every negative review details unremarkable enemy design, bullet sponge boss encounters, repetitive missions and unengaging story. All of those are failing as an FPS.

Solid core mechanics can only take a game so far if it doesn't engage the player in interesting encounters or make the player feel invested in the story.

I think this perception that Bungie is arrogant is behind the blowback that I perceive in some of the reviews.

Hubristic, not arrogant. They seem like pretty grounded guys and gals internally, but they don't communicate very well with the public, and that's their hubris.

I don't want to come off like I'm attacking Bungie personally, but structurally they have some fundamental problems as a studio. It's nobody's fault.

As far as reviewers go, they're just evaluating the game as it exists now. They aren't being unfair to Bungie. Yes, Bungie has made promises to the effect that the game will be continuously updated, but they are only promises. As fans, those promises hold more weight here than they do to Joe Schmo at Polygon or GameSpot.

I think this perception that Bungie is arrogant is behind the blowback that I perceive in some of the reviews.

Hubristic, not arrogant. They seem like pretty grounded guys and gals internally, but they don't communicate very well with the public, and that's their hubris.

I don't want to come off like I'm attacking Bungie personally, but structurally they have some fundamental problems as a studio. It's nobody's fault.

As far as reviewers go, they're just evaluating the game as it exists now. They aren't being unfair to Bungie. Yes, Bungie has made promises to the effect that the game will be continuously updated, but they are only promises. As fans, those promises hold more weight here than they do to Joe Schmo at Polygon or GameSpot.

In my dictionary hubris and arrogance are synonyms, but okay.

Many journalists are being fair, but the fact that several reviews I've read include misconceptions about what the game is in the lede tells me they don't understand it or didn't pay attention to how Bungie actually described it. They thought the game was going to be something it's not, in part because they were part of the echo chamber perpetuating half-truths about the game before launch.

Sure, Bungie could have done a better job, but Destiny is unique. Game descriptors have come to mean certain things. I think that's why Bungie came up with "shared world shooter," but that begs the question, what is that? It's a tough question to answer without giving the wrong idea.

Actually I think the reviewers are spot on. Destiny is massively repetitive. Even when playing different missions they are essentially the same, the whole story mode is completey unispired. Halos biggest weakness was Bungie's apparent fondness of backtracking to extend levels, and Destiny has it in spades. How many times do you go back to the same place? How many times do you go somewhere bring out your ghost and thn fight off waves of enemies? To many times. Plus the bosses are more a test of patience then skill.

The gameplay is polished, as expected from Bungie, so the core is good, even though I am not a fan of the CoD ironsights. The problem is what they released around is, while sporting loads of potential, is pretty mediocre.

You don't spend as much money on something as Bungie and Activision has on something that won't have mass market appeal.

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A reviewer is confused if they say this, " We were expecting a true next-gen MMO, but Destiny lacks the requirements for accomplishing that goal."

The story isn't great, but it isn't nearly as repetitive as some are making it out to be. The strikes are incredibly repetitive, but not moreso than Halo's Fire fight mode. I would have love more dynamic gameplay, but honestly, compared to other grade A FPS's this game has a lot to it. The PVP alone is a wonderfully fun experience.

My main point is this, if you come to this game with MMO expectations you will be disappointed. Lot's of reviewers were confused with what genre this game was in. Bungie repeatedly said, "It's not an MMO." If you are a reviewer, comparing this to other MMO's, you clearly missed something. Some of the reviews are very confused in my opinion. Is Destiny a 9 or 10, possibly, maybe 8 is more justifiable. But the 6's and 7's are ridiculous to me when you compare this game to what is on the market for FPS's.

Is the story repetitive across all the locations? I didn't think so personally. The first time I said, wow, this is repetitive was after I was doing the strike playlist (3-4 runs of most strikes had happened). But, what do strikes compare to? Firefight. How do strikes compare to Halo's fire fight? They are waaaaaaay more dynamic than that, not at all repetitive like Fire Fight is, yet... People LOVE fire fight. There is definitely confusion somewhere.

Plus the bosses are more a test of patience then skill.

I'm seeing this complaint a lot - and I guess I don't really understand it.

They're not a test of patience; you can't wait them out, you can't find a safe sniping place and just plink at them until they're dead. You're often thrown into a small arena, with no safe spaces and continually spawning lesser enemies, as you try to kill a monster (I'm looking at you, Phogoth). It's about staying aware of everything around you, keeping track of spawn locations, ensuring lines of sight between you and unstoppable death are broken by rocks or other obstacles. Players who aren't on top of their game (otherwise known as players showing lesser skill) will be destroyed, over and over and over - if they don't have someone who can resurrect them before they, themselves, are killed, they will start the encounter over and over and over again.

This isn't patience - this is skill. Patience is Halo (the second level of the first game), where you could walk into the canyons and pick off all your enemies with a sniper rifle, remaining relatively safe at all times. Patience is finishing Reach challenges like "Destroy 50 Banshees on New Alexandria". Patience is playing coop with your buddy, and one of you stays back out of combat, so there's always a safe spawn location. Patience is NOT beating Phogoth, or Sardok, or even Sepiks Prime.

::shrug:: sometimes it feels like I'm playing a different game than some of you.

As I said to sonofmacphisto the other day: boss battles are like ODST firefight with an insanely powerful enemy in the middle. It's what we loved about the nail biting moments when our pool of lives ran out. There's no timer or infinite lives like Reach firefight. The countdown is the health of the boss. You can make the firefight longer or shorter depending on your focus on him. The boss battles in Destiny are about fighting the small guys. The boss is just a big environment hazard.

You're really reaching to explain the negative reaction to the game here my friend. Saying the problem is with the players and not the game is a little silly.

As I said to sonofmacphisto the other day: boss battles are like ODST firefight with an insanely powerful enemy in the middle. It's what we loved about the nail biting moments when our pool of lives ran out. There's no timer or infinite lives like Reach firefight. The countdown is the health of the boss. You can make the firefight longer or shorter depending on your focus on him. The boss battles in Destiny are about fighting the small guys. The boss is just a big environment hazard.

As someone who isn't going to have the opportunity to play Destiny for a long while, comments like yours, Claude's, Kermit's, Levi's, Malagate's and others whom I know I'm forgetting, make me feel so much better about my purchase.

There's a lot of negativity surrounding the game right now, justified or not, and every comment, thread, headline or image I see to that effect inches forward that nagging feeling of doubt. That I'm not going to enjoy what I end up playing.

Then I read comments from you guys, and it's like a light in the dark. I want Destiny to be awesome. I want it to be fun. Maybe it takes a long time to kill the boss, but if the entire rest of the experience feels like one long Firefight, I'm so in.

Thank you.

And I really, really appreciated reading it. Thanks!

It's kind of crazy. I have criticisms of Destiny and some things are either baffling or really do make me pretty upset, and I've absolutely voiced those complaints so far, but I'm still having a ton of fun. I've lost count of how many times I've played through Old Russia and the Moon. Venus is by far my most favorite area, and I've actually played there the least. I think you'll have a blast, especially if you have buddies to help you play through.

As for all the complaints, most of which are pretty legit, if Bungie can turn that ship around somehow in a lot of ways, this game will be pretty solid as a whole. There's even time for story implementation on a grand scale with a ton of content outright. They probably need to do that prior to the expansion, though.

I'm not going to try and dissuade you since you are having fun with the game, but Phogoth is absolutely tedious. The best strategy is to keep killing spawns until they stop spawning (which they will do after 7 or 8 waves or something or the other) at which point you're left with nothing to do but fire off rounds until he turns towards you, duck behind a pillar, reload, duck back out again. Rinse, repeat, ad nauseum. It took my first strike team more than 5 minutes of continuous bullet sponge after we cleared all the spawns.

I would add also that virtually every strike boss plays out this exact same kill the adds then play hide and seek behind a pillar until a massive health pool is whittled away scenario. I find this to be very tedious.

they stop spawning

Wait. What?

The whole reason these fights are fun is that you're getting hammered by grunts the whole time.

I had no idea the waves stopped. That sounds sort of stupid.

I think I'm an extreme minority here about this, but I absolutely love the Phogoth battle, and so has everyone else I've played with (at least six different people to this point, I think). We don't pick off the little guys first. We have a strategy of where we set up, and we take turns blasting at the guy while watching each other's backs and doing call outs.

We also tried hiding in the doorway that leads in, but Bungie knew there would be people like us who would try that, and bam, endless supply of Wizards and Knights and floaty death within the room itself.

Sure, there's a boring bullet-sponge experience of killing off the tiny guys before taking on the big guy, but sometimes it's just more fun challenging yourself and seeing how much Phogoth can really take. Same with Sepiks. It's fun watching people run up and melee or blade dance these guys and survive. It's fun trying to confuse the AI. It's also fun trying to land on Phogoth's head to unload on him from above, though I can't say I've had much success with that. :P

Dude, if you call Destiny an MMO and review it as such, you are missing the point. It is not an MMO. That is my point and it isn't a stretch. Comparing Strikes to Firefight in other FPS's is not a stretch, it's the logical thing to do.

They're not a test of patience; you can't wait them out, you can't find a safe sniping place and just plink at them until they're dead.

You can't no, but the patterns are simple. Once you get it down, you end up repeating everything over and over. The Nexus strike is the worst. The boss will sit there, and fire at you. You and your team take turns ducking out and firing. When the enemies materialize, you use your supers to take them out. Once dead, you continue firing on the boss. It is easy, but takes a long time.

Once you master this, the fight become boring. You've already proven you can survive for 2 minutes, so why drag it out to 7 or 8 or more?

Imagine having to punch Regret 200 times instead of 20. At some point, the player has simply proven they are skilled enough.

Imagine having to punch Regret 200 times instead of 20. At some point, the player has simply proven they are skilled enough.

Gotta prove that your sword-flying skills are consistent.

I actually enjoyed it too! We tried the "inside the door" strategy for about 7 minutes before realizing we were spending way to much effort on the Wizards/Knights/Shriekers. lol

It became much more exciting and fun once we got out and moved around.

Indeed they do stop. Can't remember the exact number of waves but it took my group about 10-15 minutes to clear them all out.

I guess the point is that having fun with the game isn't contingent on what preconceived notions someone may have about what genre it fits into. People are aware of whether they are enjoying themselves or not. I am very clear about the shared-world-shooter classification of the game and what bits and pieces that the game has cobbled together from various other genres in an attempt to carve out a new genre it entails. In spite of this awareness, I am so bored of the game that I can't even motivate myself to attempt the last couple strikes that I haven't tried.

If I had gone into the experience thinking it was an MMO but allowed someone to explain to me that I was actually playing a shared world shooter, I don't think I would suddenly go "well then, now that I know that I'm having lots of fun!"

I guess the point is that having fun with the game isn't contingent on what preconceived notions someone may have about what genre it fits into. People are aware of whether they are enjoying themselves or not. I am very clear about the shared-world-shooter classification of the game and what bits and pieces that the game has cobbled together from various other genres in an attempt to carve out a new genre it entails. In spite of this awareness, I am so bored of the game that I can't even motivate myself to attempt the last couple strikes that I haven't tried.

If I had gone into the experience thinking it was an MMO but allowed someone to explain to me that I was actually playing a shared world shooter, I don't think I would suddenly go "well then, now that I know that I'm having lots of fun!"

But that's not the point of what he's saying. Go read the reviews. Very few say they are bored, many even say the combat is great and the PvP is good, but they expected "more". This is not a matter of them having fun or not it's a matter of them expecting more because of a misunderstanding about the game. Also you may not be aware of this but there are a ton of people who are having fun, for example: every one of my game playing friends is playing it like crazy and I am the only diehard Bungie fan among them. Which is why I believe so many people are trying to figure out how it got such bad reviews. When you have as much fun with a game as many of us are it's baffling to us how it could get a 6 out of 10 when much less fun games get at least an 8 out of 10 for being an average game.

They're not a test of patience; you can't wait them out, you can't find a safe sniping place and just plink at them until they're dead.

You can't no, but the patterns are simple. Once you get it down, you end up repeating everything over and over. The Nexus strike is the worst. The boss will sit there, and fire at you. You and your team take turns ducking out and firing. When the enemies materialize, you use your supers to take them out. Once dead, you continue firing on the boss. It is easy, but takes a long time.

Once you master this, the fight become boring. You've already proven you can survive for 2 minutes, so why drag it out to 7 or 8 or more?

Imagine having to punch Regret 200 times instead of 20. At some point, the player has simply proven they are skilled enough.

So here's a place we simply will never agree.

There is NO similarity at all, in my mind, between the Phogoth battle and the Regret one. NONE. One was tedious (Regret), no matter what difficulty you played it on or who was with you. The other has been a blast twice, and I can certainly see myself going back and doing it again, multiple times.

I am aware people are having fun with it, despite user ratings actually clocking in even lower than the professional reviews, so tons is probably a fairly relative term. I've also had the leisure of reading some reviews and they don't reflect the sentiment you describe but I'm sure they exist. I guess the people who are having a blast are as puzzled by the negativity surrounding the game as those who haven't enjoyed the game are puzzled by those having a blast.

Ultimately I'm glad you're having fun with it and I'm disappointed I'm not experiencing the same thing, because lord knows I was anticipating having a lot of fun with this one.

Different strokes I guess. However, personally, a game where every boss fight essentially has the same strategy makes those fights boring fast. So it is a test of patience, esecially when those fights can lost 15 or more minutes of bullet sponging action depending on the difficulty.

The main problem with Destiny is that there is no variety, which leads to repetitive expirience.

A reviewer is confused if they say this, " We were expecting a true next-gen MMO, but Destiny lacks the requirements for accomplishing that goal."

That's just one line. Every review I've read criticizes its merits as an FPS. Polygon even did a joint review with with one reviewer coming from an FPS perspective and the other from an MMO perspective. Both had basically the same opinion of the game.

The story isn't great, but it isn't nearly as repetitive as some are making it out to be. The strikes are incredibly repetitive, but not moreso than Halo's Fire fight mode. I would have love more dynamic gameplay, but honestly, compared to other grade A FPS's this game has a lot to it. The PVP alone is a wonderfully fun experience.

My main point is this, if you come to this game with MMO expectations you will be disappointed. Lot's of reviewers were confused with what genre this game was in. Bungie repeatedly said, "It's not an MMO." If you are a reviewer, comparing this to other MMO's, you clearly missed something. Some of the reviews are very confused in my opinion. Is Destiny a 9 or 10, possibly, maybe 8 is more justifiable. But the 6's and 7's are ridiculous to me when you compare this game to what is on the market for FPS's.

Is the story repetitive across all the locations? I didn't think so personally. The first time I said, wow, this is repetitive was after I was doing the strike playlist (3-4 runs of most strikes had happened). But, what do strikes compare to? Firefight. How do strikes compare to Halo's fire fight? They are waaaaaaay more dynamic than that, not at all repetitive like Fire Fight is, yet... People LOVE fire fight. There is definitely confusion somewhere.

I'm not buying the argument that if reviewers weren't confused, they'd like it more.

There are plenty of reasons to give it a 6 or 7 on its merits as a shooter alone, and the lackluster MMO trappings don't do enough to make up for those shortcomings. If you like the story missions, great, but lots of reviewers found the cycle of "hack objective->fight waves of enemies->go to next objective" repetitive, encounter and enemy design lacking, and the story underdeveloped and failing to lend gravitas to events.

This post feels disingenuous. Reviewers aren't "confused". They just don't like the game. Every negative review details unremarkable enemy design, bullet sponge boss encounters, repetitive missions and unengaging story. All of those are failing as an FPS.

Solid core mechanics can only take a game so far if it doesn't engage the player in interesting encounters or make the player feel invested in the story.

Geez, you keep saying EVERY negative review. Have you read them all? MANY negative reviews that I've read talk about how it's not what they expected, and what they expected is not what I expected. Who's wrong?

I've seen reviewers who completely contradict each other or even themselves in the same review.

It's not like subjectivity can be banished and expectations have no affect in the evaluation of the game. I sense an eagerness to take Bungie down a peg or two. I've seen the same thing happen with many successful artists. When a flaw can be found, it's magnified.

Even before the beta or final game came out, I saw some critics ready to dismiss it. Mass market shooter, nothing special. We can both keep pretending that the reviewers who agree with us are the objective ones who get it right, but the truth is we both could be overlooking the game's strengths or faults.

I bet you this, though. If this game came out of left field, or if Activision had not yakked so much about the supposed half a billion figure, I think the reviews would be better. Expectation is a MF.

Different strokes I guess. However, personally, a game where every boss fight essentially has the same strategy makes those fights boring fast. So it is a test of patience, esecially when those fights can lost 15 or more minutes of bullet sponging action depending on the difficulty.

The main problem with Destiny is that there is no variety, which leads to repetitive expirience.

Heh. Fair enough. Doesn't apply to my run-through so far (I don't think I've used the same strategy more than once or twice, unless you call "kill the boss and finish the level" a strategy), but if that's how you're seeing it, I guess I understand your frustration.

I guess I look back at Halo, a game I've put (according to LegacyStats) 128 days of playtime into over the past 14 years, and I realize that I killed an awful lot of elites with the PP/precision weapon combo, I killed a boatload of flood with shotguns, and so on. I employed strategies that carried on through 6 different games and were used hundreds of thousands of times, to the point where I hardly even need to think about them... and to this day they haven't gotten old. The idea that I'd get bored of whatever new strategies I've come up with for Destiny, in the 8 hours I've managed to put into it so far, seems ludicrous to me.

The bottom line, for me: I don't find the gameplay boring or repetitive. I guess you do. I'm sorry (not because I'm responsible for the repetitiveness, but out of empathy for your lack of fun).

Different strokes I guess. However, personally, a game where every boss fight essentially has the same strategy makes those fights boring fast.
The main problem with Destiny is that there is no variety, which leads to repetitive expirience.

The raid will blow your mind then.

Maybe it takes a long time to kill the boss, but if the entire rest of the experience feels like one long Firefight, I'm so in.

Friend, you don't even know. You've got joy headed your way. Truly.

I'm not going to try and dissuade you since you are having fun with the game, but Phogoth is absolutely tedious. The best strategy is to keep killing spawns until they stop spawning (which they will do after 7 or 8 waves or something or the other) at which point you're left with nothing to do but fire off rounds until he turns towards you, duck behind a pillar, reload, duck back out again. Rinse, repeat, ad nauseum. It took my first strike team more than 5 minutes of continuous bullet sponge after we cleared all the spawns.

I would add also that virtually every strike boss plays out this exact same kill the adds then play hide and seek behind a pillar until a massive health pool is whittled away scenario. I find this to be very tedious.

Why don't you just forget the "best strategy" and get at it? Wouldn't that be fun, and challenging?

That is what I have heard. I have kind of hit the wall when it has come to grinding gear though, and I am only level 24 almost 25 after getting my first purple item. I'll get there, but probably after everybody has the raid down pretty well.

This post feels disingenuous. Reviewers aren't "confused". They just don't like the game. Every negative review details unremarkable enemy design, bullet sponge boss encounters, repetitive missions and unengaging story. All of those are failing as an FPS.

Solid core mechanics can only take a game so far if it doesn't engage the player in interesting encounters or make the player feel invested in the story.

Geez, you keep saying EVERY negative review. Have you read them all? MANY negative reviews that I've read talk about how it's not what they expected, and what they expected is not what I expected. Who's wrong?

Every negative review I read, I should clarify, which were a handful of them from big sites like Polygon and Giant Bomb. They all said generally the same thing. Polygon even did a joint review from two different perspectives.

I've seen reviewers who completely contradict each other or even themselves in the same review.

It's not like subjectivity can be banished and expectations have no affect in the evaluation of the game. I sense an eagerness to take Bungie down a peg or two. I've seen the same thing happen with many successful artists. When a flaw can be found, it's magnified.

Even before the beta or final game came out, I saw some critics ready to dismiss it. Mass market shooter, nothing special. We can both keep pretending that the reviewers who agree with us are the objective ones who get it right, but the truth is we both could be overlooking the game's strengths or faults.

I'm sure there are lots of folks out there looking to be negative, but you don't get a metacritic score like that just from a few salty folks with a bone to pick. Pointing to those major review sites again, lots of folks seem to just be plain disappointed and underwhelmed.

I bet you this, though. If this game came out of left field, or if Activision had not yakked so much about the supposed half a billion figure, I think the reviews would be better. Expectation is a MF.

True, but it's hard to escape expectations with " Bungie" on the label.

I'm hoping this will be just like the first Assassin's Creed. Excellent core mechanics, but little in the way of variety or story, roundly criticised (and justifiably so). Then the sequel fixes all the problems and is universally lauded.

I'm hoping this will be just like the first Assassin's Creed. Excellent core mechanics, but little in the way of variety or story, roundly criticised (and justifiably so). Then the sequel fixes all the problems and is universally lauded.

I also have high hopes for the sequel and what happens before the sequel. This metacritic crap might be good for Bungie in the long run. A straight trajectory to World Domination is boring. I don't find all the criticisms fair, but many are. I'm willing to bet there are a lot of people in the studio who had the same criticisms before a single review was published, and plans were already in place to address them. This time the narrative is "the most expensive game ever is disappointing." That sets the stage for the narrative next time, which we can hope is "Bungie makes good on Destiny's promise."