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But are we paranoid enough? (Destiny)

by Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) ⌂ @, London, Ontario, Canada, Monday, September 15, 2014, 16:17 (3740 days ago)

Kotaku dives into a Redditor's suspicion that Guardians are on the wrong side of the fight.

-- Steve sees a touch of the ol' Bungie genius there, at least in their ability to make fans run around in circles and fire wildly in all directions anyway. :)

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But are we paranoid enough?

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Monday, September 15, 2014, 16:49 (3740 days ago) @ Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

Love this article. It just shows how bungie knows it's community will dig and imagine and take even the tiniest story and vague hints and make them into a new world. Alone we could never find all the clues to have a true understanding but together we share annd begin to unlock the truth.

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called it

by Jillybean, Monday, September 15, 2014, 16:58 (3740 days ago) @ Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

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called it

by CommandrCleavage @, USA-Midwest, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 11:32 (3739 days ago) @ Jillybean

Props, the first time I read about this theory I latched onto it like no other. For me this would REALLY be a story worthy of a franchise. I doff my tinfoil hat to you.

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But are we paranoid enough?

by car15, Monday, September 15, 2014, 19:37 (3740 days ago) @ Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

Something is definitely off about the Speaker. But I don't think the Traveler is evil. Destiny is supposed to be a hopeful and optimistic universe. A twist like that wouldn't fit with that tone very well.

I still think the Traveler itself is dead, but that it transferred its consciousness into the Speaker to save itself.

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But are we paranoid enough?

by car15, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 16:40 (3739 days ago) @ car15

Alternatively, the Traveler is good, but the Speaker(s?) have been corrupted by the Darkness. Something is definitely off about the Speaker, but I just don't see Bungie going down the predictable "the Traveler was evil all along" path.

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But are we paranoid enough?

by Grizzlei ⌂ @, Pacific Cloud Zone, Earth, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 16:47 (3739 days ago) @ car15

Alternatively, the Traveler is good, but the Speaker(s?) have been corrupted by the Darkness. Something is definitely off about the Speaker, but I just don't see Bungie going down the predictable "the Traveler was evil all along" path.

Yep. I remember the Speaker spoke of something that the last light of civilization will fall if the Traveler succumbs to the "Darkness", yet, we can see that the Awoken, which many Guardians are, exist out at the Reef in presumably large numbers. A lot of what the Speaker is saying is bullshit and the rest is obviously twisted in favor of something.

Maybe he's just horrendously racist?

by Dan de Board @, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 19:26 (3739 days ago) @ Grizzlei

- No text -

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Speaker is now second on my Tower shitlist

by Grizzlei ⌂ @, Pacific Cloud Zone, Earth, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 19:31 (3739 days ago) @ Dan de Board

- No text -

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I assume the Cryptarch is #1?

by breitzen @, Kansas, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 20:33 (3739 days ago) @ Grizzlei

- No text -

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But are we paranoid enough?

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 21:14 (3739 days ago) @ Grizzlei

Two things: Presumably there are fair numbers of Awoken in the Last City, even not counting Guardians. Secondly, the Reef might only be standing because the Last City is what the other enemies are focusing on. Its claim to neutrality probably wouldn't save it if the City was crushed.

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Civil war?

by SonofMacPhisto @, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 05:50 (3740 days ago) @ Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

When you first land on Mars, you cross an area called Rubicon. I mean, c'mon now. It's the point of no return, surely, but also an act of insurrection.

Also, one human's Light is another alien's Darkness. It's mostly a matter of amoral perspective, not actual absolutes. Decent propaganda, though.

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Civil war?

by bluerunner @, Music City, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 07:32 (3739 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

When you first land on Mars, you cross an area called Rubicon. I mean, c'mon now. It's the point of no return, surely, but also an act of insurrection.

I'm loving the Roman references with the Cabal. I think a cool story to play out with them would be to side with a faction more friendly to Earth and try to overthrow their emperor. Capture some of the magic of Halo 2 when we were fighting alongside elites and hunters. The Roman Empire was full of civil wars. What's to say the Cabal don't have the same problems?

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Civil war?

by SonofMacPhisto @, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 07:39 (3739 days ago) @ bluerunner

When you first land on Mars, you cross an area called Rubicon. I mean, c'mon now. It's the point of no return, surely, but also an act of insurrection.


I'm loving the Roman references with the Cabal. I think a cool story to play out with them would be to side with a faction more friendly to Earth and try to overthrow their emperor. Capture some of the magic of Halo 2 when we were fighting alongside elites and hunters. The Roman Empire was full of civil wars. What's to say the Cabal don't have the same problems?

An exceptionally militarized society like the Cabal? Oh yeah, bound to have some elements not happy with the status quo.

I'd love to see powers ebb and flow on planets - the Fallen make headway on the Moon, the Vex occupy more Cabal territory, the Cabal make a daring strike against the Hive and occupy the Hellmouth for a time.

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Civil war?

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 07:35 (3739 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

When you first land on Mars, you cross an area called Rubicon. I mean, c'mon now. It's the point of no return, surely, but also an act of insurrection.

Also, one human's Light is another alien's Darkness. It's mostly a matter of amoral perspective, not actual absolutes. Decent propaganda, though.

Huge red flag went up for me during my talk with the Queen. Sympathy for your Traveller? A distinction about not being forged in Light? With the added perspective that the Awoken are supposed to have, why would humanity being extinguished by the Darkness not bother them?

And why would some of them continue to help fight back against it?

~m

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Civil war?

by SonofMacPhisto @, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 07:41 (3739 days ago) @ Malagate

When you first land on Mars, you cross an area called Rubicon. I mean, c'mon now. It's the point of no return, surely, but also an act of insurrection.

Also, one human's Light is another alien's Darkness. It's mostly a matter of amoral perspective, not actual absolutes. Decent propaganda, though.


Huge red flag went up for me during my talk with the Queen. Sympathy for your Traveller? A distinction about not being forged in Light? With the added perspective that the Awoken are supposed to have, why would humanity being extinguished by the Darkness not bother them?

And why would some of them continue to help fight back against it?

~m


I keep thinking about the Light in reference to Sol, since stars are responsible for all life as we know. The Darkness is the void, which as far as we know is absent of life. The Awoken are at the edge of this, and seem to have a Yin Ying relationship to it. Like I said earlier, one man's light is another man's darkness, but what if they're more two sides of each coin?

Also, if that's true, why fight for the Traveler? Well, I happen to live in this system thank you very much.

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Civil war?

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 07:43 (3739 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

When you first land on Mars, you cross an area called Rubicon. I mean, c'mon now. It's the point of no return, surely, but also an act of insurrection.

Also, one human's Light is another alien's Darkness. It's mostly a matter of amoral perspective, not actual absolutes. Decent propaganda, though.

From a Dreg's perspective:

what others call dark which is not I know what it is but no time room calm given for an appropriate telling so I say only that what is not shadow is an ally and a wonder and I respect what I cannot steal from and you cannot take from the dark you can claim only pain from the dark and that is why the dark is worthy of love beyond all other love that astonishing ability to evade being robbed

I love what I will not name

--Ghost Fragment: Fallen 2 (Grimoire)

BTW, the Grimoire cards are awesome, and I actually like reading them from the companion app on my iPad (they're harder to read on the web, but I don't think I'd enjoy them as much in game, so there's that).

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Civil war?

by car15, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 12:27 (3739 days ago) @ Kermit

An in-game browser is a must. The companion app will still be there for those who like it.

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Civil war?

by SonofMacPhisto @, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 12:32 (3739 days ago) @ car15

I like Jilly's idea - have a librarian at the Tower, only because it would be cool to have an actual place to go in world. Maybe have them part of the Cryptarchs.

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Civil war?

by car15, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 16:30 (3739 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

That would be a nice touch. Maybe have the Cryptarch himself be the librarian so that he's not such a douche nozzle after all.

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This makes things make so much more sense. To me anyway...

by Jester GS, Earth, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 08:55 (3739 days ago) @ Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

- No text -

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But are we paranoid enough?

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 09:19 (3739 days ago) @ Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

So that's some nice juicy stuff from the Grimoire.

I would advise more folks here read The Black Company.

Y'know. For S-and-G's.

There's still a whole lot of Destiny that reminds me of it.

Plus, y'know, working for a questionable boss. Whose motives (if any) aren't super clear.

Plus the whole finding-out-you-were-being-duped thing.

Plus the your-boss's-boss-might-be-kinda-sorta-married-to-the-darkness thing.

~m

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But are we paranoid enough?

by SonofMacPhisto @, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 10:12 (3739 days ago) @ Malagate

So that's some nice juicy stuff from the Grimoire.

I would advise more folks here read The Black Company.

Y'know. For S-and-G's.

There's still a whole lot of Destiny that reminds me of it.

Plus, y'know, working for a questionable boss. Whose motives (if any) aren't super clear.

Plus the whole finding-out-you-were-being-duped thing.

Plus the your-boss's-boss-might-be-kinda-sorta-married-to-the-darkness thing.

~m

But hyper-advanced technology from little understood machine-gods always turns out so well.

Oh, hey Harbinger, didn't see you there. How's it going?

(Book suggestion filed)

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But are we paranoid enough?

by Durandal, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 13:51 (3739 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

From the Alpha Lupi entries it appears the traveler is legit, or at worst fled to humanity for support. Rasputin on the other hand may have gone all Mendicant Bias on us.

The galactic community seems to be somewhat complex, with the Vex, Darkness and Traveler as major powers with the empires of the Cabal and Hive following close behind. The vex seem to have capabilities equal to the Darkness and the Traveler, I wonder why they haven't encountered each other before?

Certainly there has been enough time for the Vex to colonize the whole of the milky way. If they can Vexiform a world in a day, certainly they could have transformed a significant chunk of the galaxy in the 50,000 years lead they had on humanity. They either were stopped, or chose to cease, allowing the rise of the Traveler and the Darkness.

The Traveler may even be related to the Vex. A Vex moonlet that gained too much self awareness perhaps? Indulging in gardening as opposed to cyberforming the universe?

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But are we paranoid enough?

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 14:01 (3739 days ago) @ Durandal

Well, the Exo Stranger said it: The Vex are an evil so dark they are hated by other evil. But then again, what was that they were worshiping in the Black Garden?! The Hive and Vex have both been shown to draw power from things beyond them. Are both agents of The Darkness? Also of note: I don't believe we've seen Vex and Hive fight each other. Could that be intentional?

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But are we paranoid enough?

by SonofMacPhisto @, Wednesday, September 17, 2014, 05:32 (3739 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Well, the Exo Stranger said it: The Vex are an evil so dark they are hated by other evil. But then again, what was that they were worshiping in the Black Garden?! The Hive and Vex have both been shown to draw power from things beyond them. Are both agents of The Darkness? Also of note: I don't believe we've seen Vex and Hive fight each other. Could that be intentional?

Good point. Always find it curious that when you dive into the Moon to destroy that shrine, everything gets really high tech looking really fast.

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Called it (two minutes before Jillybean)

by Grizzlei ⌂ @, Pacific Cloud Zone, Earth, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 16:30 (3739 days ago) @ Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

hehe

Seriously, though, how many times did we, as a Guardian, walk in on the Hive or Vex praying to some object? At the end, those Goblins were covered in grassy bits as if they had kneeled dormant for centuries praying before the Heart of the Black Garden. You can see them eerily looking back at you and your Ghost intruding on their place of worship.

Honestly, it made me feel terrible. Like who they hell were we to bother them? That Garden was rather peaceful before we showed up.

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Called it (two minutes before Jillybean)

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 21:24 (3739 days ago) @ Grizzlei

Seriously, though, how many times did we, as a Guardian, walk in on the Hive or Vex praying to some object? At the end, those Goblins were covered in grassy bits as if they had kneeled dormant for centuries praying before the Heart of the Black Garden. You can see them eerily looking back at you and your Ghost intruding on their place of worship.

Honestly, it made me feel terrible. Like who they hell were we to bother them? That Garden was rather peaceful before we showed up.

Yeah, it had an odd tone to it. It makes me wonder if it was almost intentional, with that one Grimoire card. I don't think we're the bad guys, but I do think it might have been made to subtly hint that we aren't entirely in the clear, either.

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Forged in Darkness

by Jillybean, Wednesday, September 17, 2014, 11:47 (3738 days ago) @ Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

Is it coincidence that the Sword of Crota is SO DAMNED FUN?


/tinfoilhat

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How are you so right?

by Grizzlei ⌂ @, Pacific Cloud Zone, Earth, Wednesday, September 17, 2014, 11:51 (3738 days ago) @ Jillybean

- No text -

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I'm just talented bb ;)

by Jillybean, Wednesday, September 17, 2014, 13:49 (3738 days ago) @ Grizzlei

- No text -

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Forged in Darkness

by CommandrCleavage @, USA-Midwest, Wednesday, September 17, 2014, 11:52 (3738 days ago) @ Jillybean

Soooooooo fun. My favorite right now to keep going back and playing :)

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***INCOMING MESSAGE FROM DURANDAL***

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Wednesday, September 17, 2014, 11:52 (3738 days ago) @ Jillybean

Strive for your next breath. Believe that with it you can do
more than with the last one. Use your breath to power your
capacities: capacity to kill, to maim, to destroy.

And just where do your capacities come from? Why do you
always go where I want and do what I say?

Perhaps you're just running a fool's errand, doing everything
as I've planned, never able to change your course. You would
do well to believe that I know the outcome of your battle with
the Pfhor already, just as I can decipher the chaotic motion of
gas molecules in the clouds of Tau Ceti IV.

Or, perhaps, that is not the case.

Perhaps, you are doing what you were meant to do. Your human
mentality screams for vengeance and thrives on the violence
that you say you can hardly endure. Your father told you as a
child to always fight with honor, but to always fight. Do you
care about honor, or do you use honor as an excuse? An excuse
to exist in a violent world.

Organic beings are constantly fighting for life. Every
breath, every motion brings you one instant closer to your
death. With that kind of heritage and destiny, how can you
deny yourself? How can you expect yourself to give up
violence?

It is your nature.

Do you feel free?

Forged in Darkness

by Jabberwok, Thursday, September 18, 2014, 13:20 (3737 days ago) @ Jillybean

Is it coincidence that the Sword of Crota is SO DAMNED FUN?


/tinfoilhat

But I was so depressed at the end of the mission. I REALLY wanted to keep that thing. Please tell me there are more things like that later on. The game needs more swords, and other craziness.

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