Bladedancer remains safe...

Loot cave dance parties. I'll bring the wub wub.

But ... but ... it's NOT AN EXPLOIT!

It's not. Shooting enemies to get loot is a normal part of the intended Destiny experience. The loot cave phenomenon was just a result of people maximizing their efficiency within the normal parameters of the game.

If the loot cave was an "exploit" then so is using the shotgun (which will be similarly nerfed, based on the dev notes).

(which will be similarly nerfed, based on the dev notes).

So... it was an exploit?

But ... but ... it's NOT AN EXPLOIT!

It's not. Shooting enemies to get loot is a normal part of the intended Destiny experience. The loot cave phenomenon was just a result of people maximizing their efficiency within the normal parameters of the game.

If the loot cave was an "exploit" then so is using the shotgun (which will be similarly nerfed, based on the dev notes).

This is the cat and mouse game of investment systems.

Players are going to go somewhere else to get their gear. Bungie will respond by making activities give better loot, but then people will just run the most efficient activity repeatedly, and you have the same problem.

Really the only way to win is to not play, and not have random loot and an investment system to begin with. The alternative is to have 30 be the cap forever, and all subsequent games never raise it or require better gear for their activities.

Indeed. As long as it's possible in the game without cheating and it's not abusive toward other players, it's a valid way to play. Bungie may choose to patch it, but it is not the community's responsibility to police "exploits" in-game.

I figured Bungie would close up the loot cave. I was HOPING they wouldn't, but it seems they are changing engram drops in other areas to compensate for its absence, so that makes up for it.

Yup, I figured I'd quit lurking and get involved :) I really want to do the Vault of Glass with this group when I'm high enough level.

Also, I'll text you later to hang out Sunday afternoon for lunch and to catch up. Though this isn't the place for this discussion ...

From the Dev notes sounds like they are going to increase the number of engrams you get for actually completing activities, which definitely sounds like a good idea to me. Personally I think you should get a drop from compeleting every activity even if it's just a crappy green item you can dismantle.

I totally agree, and to help fill the void of the Loot Cave you need to give the players what they really want (borrowing form Diablo and Borderlands) which is the 'Loot-splosion!'. If they get rid of random drops on minions during a strike and instead have the boss explode in the cumulative loot, I would be SO HAPPY! That summary screen drop is just not gratifying enough!

I'm waiting for the patch, but I'm like 90% sure I'm dismantling my Thorn, too. Having two different "The Devil You Know"s has me content enough, and so I'll definitely need the Energy. Working on another invective at the same time, too...

By the way, what did you get for Dismantling yours? How many shards/energy?

Do you now get *nothing*? You should still get something useful or at least glimmer.

Personally, I think the highlight of the QW missions is the strike modifiers. Void Damage Nexus was really fun!

Void Damage Nexus is the Weekly strike not a QW mission isn't it? But I totally agree. I played Solar Burn, Juggler, Epic on the Cabal mission where you charge the Gate Lord's eye and it was the most fun I've ever had in a story mission.

Do you now get *nothing*? You should still get something useful or at least glimmer.

Personally, I think the highlight of the QW missions is the strike modifiers. Void Damage Nexus was really fun!

Right? I got a three shot kill on the vex gate lord with void burn!

You still get the gear, it just can't be dismantled for Asendant Shards. Which I will refer to as "sharding" moving forward. "Rage sharding" was the best part of the Dev Notes.

I don't know what they'll dismantle to, but it won't be Ascendant materials.

I'm referring to light level. I should've been more clear, apologies.

Looks like that Scout Rifle might be The One.

I was seduced by the Bad Seed Down(legendary pulse rifle) but the love is mutual

Doesn't that one have the "Extra Ammo and Reload Speed from Near Death" perk? Is that any good? I've had my eye on Bad Seed and the Super Pox VLO for pulse rifles. Didn't like them to start, but perhaps my love of Scouts will open the way.

Not extra ammo IIRC, but yes the faster reload if your shields are down and have taken body damage helps me recover if I've been, er, over-intrepid.

-- Steve thinks it's one of those bennies that *shouldn't* be used regularly. :)

edited to add: You don't get extra ammo for being wounded but you can upgrade it to have either a larger magazine or a deeper ammo reserve. Since my boots let me carry extra pulse rifle ammo anyway, I went for the bigger clip... and hoo boy is that nice.

I love how the Fusion rifle requires you to plan ahead to use it effectively. Shotguns are for people who can't do that. :P

Agreed. I've gotten a few angry XBL messages from shotgun campers because I beat them repeatedly by charging before I go around the corner :)

Unless I'm mistaken, the guns are not nerfed in THIS update, but in a future one. So players should have plenty of time to bring a new gun up to max while they continue to use their OP guns as need be.

You might be right, in which case I'd like to see a but more transparency on weapon stats. Sliding bars are good for a quick "which is faster/stronger", but it couldnt hurt to see exactly HOW MUCH faster/stronger.

If nothing else, I can impart that:
A) Rockets are rubbish for Damage over Time
B) All weapons of the same variety do roughly the same DpS in PvP though not exactly (Auto rifles fluctuate between 160 and 165, Scouts from 117-120ish) - so pick your PvP weapons based on stability rather than raw impact (or range on shotguns). NB: May not apply to Legendaries and above.
C) Red Dot-OAS is the best sight for Stability. Equip it wherever possible for PvP
D) Even a Reload Speed difference of 10% (on B.Net) is only a difference of 5 frames, or 0.17 seconds. Not that huge of a difference!
E) The most important stat for PvE DpM (after Attack Rating) is Magazine Size, though obviously Stability affects your ability to land the hits
F) The speed at which Fusion Rifle shots travel is affected by the Range stat. Plan accordingly for distant/fast targets.

So long as only Range or Stability are affected, It's only a case of re-finding the right weapons with the right sights and checking B.Net for stats. Even if Impact is changed (Scout Rifles) it should be easy enough to update (once/if I find the right gear again).

If RoF or Reload are changed that means recording a whole bunch of footage again and recounting Frames. We'll see. Maybe Bungie will be awesome and give specifics when the patch goes live.

I see.

Well, if the blue and purple get you excited then who am I to judge?

As of right now, all they do is rustle jimmies*

-Korny 2012

I'm pretty sure it'll be the couple of models your thinking of (and a few others I can think of) that'll be affected. I don't think this will be an across the board change on all auto rifles.

A mate of mine has a Shingen AR that has very high ROF, high stability, pretty good range and okay impact...he pretty much dismantles every other AR he gets.

Exactly one of the ones I was thinking of!

Not sure how I feel about the weapon changes. I already thought the shotgun's effective range felt much shorter than in any other game. I don't mind them making scout rifles better, but they already seem pretty good to me. And I wonder if my legendary assault rifle that I found will now be not worth using if they further decrease stability. There are only a couple of models that strike me as too effective at range. I don't know, maybe these changes make more sense in competitive.

I'm pretty sure it'll be the couple of models your thinking of (and a few others I can think of) that'll be affected. I don't think this will be an across the board change on all auto rifles.

A mate of mine has a Shingen AR that has very high ROF, high stability, pretty good range and okay impact...he pretty much dismantles every other AR he gets.

I didn't know there were any Shingens with good stability. All the ones I've used kick like a whole team of mules. I guess that would be something to correct, then.