https://www.bungie.net/7_Update-1015---Patch-Notes/en/News/News?aid=12190

tl;dr at the bottom of this post.

Patch Notes

Activities

Missions

• Reduced drop rate of engrams following a hard wipe [fixed in 1.0.1.4]

Queen's Wrath Event

• Material rewards for dismantling Queen's Wrath gear will no longer provide ascendant materials, but missions will continue to drop Legendary items

World

Destinations

• The Hive of the holy “Treasure Cave” have realized the futility of their endless assault on Skywatch and have retired to lick their wounds and plan their next attack.
  
• Respawn timers for monster caves in Skywatch have been normalized to 40 seconds (increased from 6)
  
• Respawn timers for monster caves in Forgotten Shore have been normalized to 40 seconds (increased from 10)
  
• Respawn timers for monster caves in Ember Caves have been normalized to 40 seconds (increased from 10)
  
• Respawn timers for monster caves in the Shattered Coast have been normalized to 40 seconds (increased from 10)
  
• Respawn timers for monster caves in the Barrens have been normalized to 40 seconds (increased from 20)

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Destiny Dev Notes

On September 9th the Bungie team traded late nights building Destiny for late nights playing Destiny with all of you. We'd looked forward to that day for years, knowing that it would bring millions of fresh eyes into our world and quickly change many of our plans and priorities. We were not disappointed.

In the last two weeks there have been many surprises, bugs, exploits, world firsts, and a whole lot of fun. It's been an amazing time. We think now is a great time to step back and let you all know how we think the game is holding up and to talk about some changes we are contemplating going forward.

We will be patching some of these issues as early as today. Others may not be addressed for a month or two. Stay tuned for updates and thank you for all your feedback online.

Loot

He Who Shall Not Be Named
Long ago during development, the Cryptarch decoded engrams of a given color into gear of that same color. Early in 2014 we added randomness, both for better and worse, to the decrypting process. The result was that end-of-session engram decoding got a lot more exciting and the Cryptarch himself suddenly acquired a personality. Both of these experiences were positive additions to the game.

But we didn't adequately communicate the potential random outcomes of decryption. Players see what looks like the familiar metaphor of item identification, while the Cryptarch thinks he's opening a grab bag of loot. Rage sharding of blues ensues. Expect to see changes to address this soon.

Destiny: The Cave
The social experience of a cave farming run is amazing: the herding to get a team of Guardians all behind the line and firing in the right direction, the rush to grab the loot, the scramble when the panic wave starts, the beckoning glow from inside the cave. The speed at which the community organized around this activity was inspiring and humbling to us.

But shooting at a black hole for hours on end isn't our dream for how Destiny is played. Our hope is that social engagement in public spaces is only one part of the Destiny experience. Expect changes soon which decrease the efficiency of cave farming and correspondingly increase engram drops from completing activities.

Reward Celebration
Growing more powerful by acquiring new upgrades, gear or progression is central to Destiny's player experience. Our goal is to always celebrate when this occurs, both as a reward in and of itself and to communicate to players what is going on.

During development we sometimes prioritized making a system functional over celebrating its rewards, for example:
The Vault of Glass contains highly coveted loot but the actual moment of reward happens without fanfare and can be easily missed.
The lowest level of the Daily Heroic gives great XP and Reputation rewards, but neither of these progressions appears on the postgame screen.

We will slowly be addressing these and other issues going forward.

Social

Voice Communication
Our vision for Destiny is that all players, even matchmade players in the Crucible, Strikes, the Tower or public spaces, be able to communicate with one another in a way that promotes positive socialization. Voice communication is the easy answer, but existing voice paradigms, including those in our own Halo games, have not done enough to protect players from abusive griefing from a minority of players.

Destiny's near-term solution will be to allow players to opt-in to voice communication during matchmade activities. Work on this feature was underway at launch and should be rolled out this year in Strikes and the Crucible.

Activities

Strikes
Strikes are intended to be a fun, combat-filled romp and stomp with a big boss and cool rewards at the end. Better with cooperation, but doable in a pick up group.

Since launch we've tracked down an issue which has made Strikes more challenging than originally designed by both increasing damage taken by players and decreasing the damage inflicted by players on the boss. Expect to see this addressed soon, and for Strikes to become a little less grindy as a result (sorry, Raiders - incoming damage is working as intended in the Vault of Glass).

Balance

Our goal when balancing Destiny is to never have one player choice-- for example a choice of class or weapon-- either be so much better than the alternatives that it is the only valid choice or to be so much worse that it would always be a mistake to choose. When we are successful with this kind of balance the result is a wide set of equally compelling player builds, some of which may be preferred by one player or another but none of which is an absolute right or wrong choice.

Exotic Weapons
Exotic Weapons are designed to look, feel and sound overpowered, but to not actually break the game. We hope these weapons challenge the way players think about their loadouts and expect their idiosyncrasies to sometimes be a little frustrating. We find ourselves wanting to collect them all and hope players feel the same way.

Not all our Exotic Weapons currently live up to this promise. In particular those weapons received from completing exotic bounties including Thorn and Bad Juju have disappointed many of us who have gone through the great effort to obtain them because, despite looking and sounding amazing, they feel underpowered. We're here to offer some advice: don't shard those guns. Their time will come.

Auto Rifles
The Auto Rifle archetype is designed to appeal to players who like to throw up a wall of bullets and not worry if a few miss their target. It is intended to inflict sustained damage at close to medium range, but to lose effectiveness at longer ranges.

Today the Auto Rifle is too effective at long range, even beating Scout and Pulse Rifles in some circumstances. Expect stability and/or damage adjustments to the Auto Rifle to address this in the weeks ahead.

Scout Rifles
Scout Rifles are for players who like to keep their enemies at medium range and hate to miss. They are intended to be an awkward weapon to use at close range but to be dominant-- as long as you land your shots-- at medium and longer ranges.

Scouts just aren't hitting hard enough today when compared to other precision weapons. We'll be addressing this soon.

Shotguns
Shotguns are for those situations where you need to deliver a massive spike of damage, right now, to the thing standing next to you about to do you harm.

Today shotguns are effective beyond their intended range, especially when upgraded with that intention. Expect changes soon to address shotguns which push the envelope of what it means to be close quarters.

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Patch Notes tl;dr:

gg loot/treasure cave
Don't expect Ascendant Shards when you dismantle the Queen's Legendary Armor.

Dev Notes tl;dr:

Expect...

• Positive changes to Cryptarch
  
• Celebrations to your loot gain
  
• Opt-in voice communication in Matchmaking
  
• Strikes that are less grindy and difficult
  
• Making certain Exotic Weapons more OP
  
• Nerfs to Auto Rifles and Shotguns, while increasing damage to Scout Rifles.

I'm more sad that we won't get ascendant materials for the Queen's gear than the loot cave fix :(

Finally.

Looks like Bungie is playing the "Legendary upgrades are REALLY hard to get" card. :/

You'll definitely want to click on the "dev notes" link in that first paragraph to see a long discussion of the team's thoughts about the first two weeks since launch.

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But I'm quickly feeling left behind by the game. Bleh :(

But ... but ... it's NOT AN EXPLOIT!

Yeah, well, okay.

Can we have a campfire in it now!?

Loot cave dance parties. I'll bring the wub wub.

Queen's Wrath Event

• Material rewards for dismantling Queen's Wrath gear will no longer provide ascendant materials, but missions will continue to drop Legendary items

Then what the hell are we supposed to do with them? There are only so many Queen's Guard Helmets a girl needs. I think my interest level in this event just dropped off a cliff. :/

In other news, the pace of Bungie's patch schedule and responsiveness to events on Destiny is impressive. :)

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Good to know about the upcoming weapon updates. First love was an Auto Rifle (a wild, wild thing), found a Scout Rifle that woos my soul, and expected to hunt for a more stable Auto Rifle for long range engagement.

Looks like that Scout Rifle might be The One.

But ... but ... it's NOT AN EXPLOIT!

It's not. Shooting enemies to get loot is a normal part of the intended Destiny experience. The loot cave phenomenon was just a result of people maximizing their efficiency within the normal parameters of the game.

If the loot cave was an "exploit" then so is using the shotgun (which will be similarly nerfed, based on the dev notes).

But ... but ... it's NOT AN EXPLOIT!

It's not. Shooting enemies to get loot is a normal part of the intended Destiny experience. The loot cave phenomenon was just a result of people maximizing their efficiency within the normal parameters of the game.

If the loot cave was an "exploit" then so is using the shotgun (which will be similarly nerfed, based on the dev notes).

(which will be similarly nerfed, based on the dev notes).

So... it was an exploit?

You'll definitely want to click on the "dev notes" link in that first paragraph to see a long discussion of the team's thoughts about the first two weeks since launch.

Yeah I am very happy with all their decisions in the dev notes. Can't wait to see all those changes implemented.

But ... but ... it's NOT AN EXPLOIT!

It's not. Shooting enemies to get loot is a normal part of the intended Destiny experience. The loot cave phenomenon was just a result of people maximizing their efficiency within the normal parameters of the game.

If the loot cave was an "exploit" then so is using the shotgun (which will be similarly nerfed, based on the dev notes).

So... it was an exploit?

lol basically

We just didn't realize the unintended effectiveness of the shotty.

Bladedancer remains safe...

Yea... Circular logic there. An exploit is an exploit. Glad to see it closed up.

Queen's Wrath Event

• Material rewards for dismantling Queen's Wrath gear will no longer provide ascendant materials, but missions will continue to drop Legendary items

Then what the hell are we supposed to do with them? There are only so many Queen's Guard Helmets a girl needs. I think my interest level in this event just dropped off a cliff. :/

In other news, the pace of Bungie's patch schedule and responsiveness to events on Destiny is impressive. :)

I agree (on both fronts). It already sucks that there's a huge chance that I'll get a piece of armor I already have, but now I won't get anything worthwhile from the Queen's Wrath missions.

But yeah, Bungie's rolling out these updates like nobodies business- it's really cool :)

Exactly. If you already have Legendary gear from the vendors (which is superior to the QW gear), there is no point in participating in the event as it is right now.

Bladedancer remains safe...

I'd be curious to see the stats on the various Supers. Average number of kills with them would be interesting (obviously Sunsinger and Defender wouldn't work out as well).

STAPH!

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

In the arrrrmmms of an angel

Tis a bummer about the nerfs to the Queen's gear but all those other changes they are looking into are exciting. I'm most interested to see how the PvP game gets affected with the re-balancing of weapons.

I'm interested to see how they will change the drop rate in response to removing the Loot Cave from the game. The material requirements mean you really need more general vendor trash while playing, and if this can be done during the fun parts of Destiny (everything besides the loot cave really) then I'm all for it.

Yea... Circular logic there. An exploit is an exploit. Glad to see it closed up.

I'm kinda of still hoping Monochron busts out the Prophet of the Loot Cave shtick from time to time.

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Do you now get *nothing*? You should still get something useful or at least glimmer.

Personally, I think the highlight of the QW missions is the strike modifiers. Void Damage Nexus was really fun!

This change makes me wish I'd kept my fast-firing low range shotty and disenchanted my pump action but high range one : /

the Cavior rose again, in accordance with the Grimoires, ascended into the last city, and is seated at the right hand of the Traveler.

Servants of The Cavior. May it live forever, amen.

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I'm interested to see how they will change the drop rate in response to removing the Loot Cave from the game. The material requirements mean you really need more general vendor trash while playing, and if this can be done during the fun parts of Destiny (everything besides the loot cave really) then I'm all for it.

From the Dev notes sounds like they are going to increase the number of engrams you get for actually completing activities, which definitely sounds like a good idea to me. Personally I think you should get a drop from compeleting every activity even if it's just a crappy green item you can dismantle.

Do you now get *nothing*? You should still get something useful or at least glimmer.

Personally, I think the highlight of the QW missions is the strike modifiers. Void Damage Nexus was really fun!

Void Damage Nexus is the Weekly strike not a QW mission isn't it? But I totally agree. I played Solar Burn, Juggler, Epic on the Cabal mission where you charge the Gate Lord's eye and it was the most fun I've ever had in a story mission.

Dev Notes tl;dr:

Expect...

• Positive changes to Cryptarch
  
• Celebrations to your loot gain
  
• Opt-in voice communication in Matchmaking
  
• Strikes that are less grindy and difficult
  
• Making certain Exotic Weapons more OP
  
• Nerfs to Auto Rifles and Shotguns, while increasing damage to Scout Rifles.

Bungie has to be careful here. Nerfing weapons that players may have spent weeks getting (either by drop or marks), and possibly even more time leveling up, can lead to a lot of frustration. I can see many players who might have gone out of their way to improve their auto rifles and shotguns, who may now find all that time and effort wasted when it no longer performs how they have been expecting and relying on.

With most games it is no big deal, since weapons aren't gotten this way.

I remember quite well when the 1.07 patch hit Diablo 2, instantly making pretty much everybody's character useless.

If your game has a sizeable investment system, it is more important than ever that it be stable.

But ... but ... it's NOT AN EXPLOIT!

It's not. Shooting enemies to get loot is a normal part of the intended Destiny experience. The loot cave phenomenon was just a result of people maximizing their efficiency within the normal parameters of the game.

If the loot cave was an "exploit" then so is using the shotgun (which will be similarly nerfed, based on the dev notes).

This is the cat and mouse game of investment systems.

Players are going to go somewhere else to get their gear. Bungie will respond by making activities give better loot, but then people will just run the most efficient activity repeatedly, and you have the same problem.

Really the only way to win is to not play, and not have random loot and an investment system to begin with. The alternative is to have 30 be the cap forever, and all subsequent games never raise it or require better gear for their activities.

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Gon' get some Close Quarters Delight.
My motto's always been, when it's right, it's right.
When waiting wading through a firefight.

When, everything's a little a little closer in FFA.
And, you know the special ammo's gon' be there anyway.

Grindin' EXP is working up my appetite,
Looking forward to a little Close Quarters Delight,
Mixing Scrubs n Noobs together makes my score ignite,
And the thought of shooting you is getting so exciting.

My KD's alright! Close Quarters Delight!

Close Quarters Delight...

Do you now get *nothing*? You should still get something useful or at least glimmer.

Personally, I think the highlight of the QW missions is the strike modifiers. Void Damage Nexus was really fun!

Right? I got a three shot kill on the vex gate lord with void burn!

You still get the gear, it just can't be dismantled for Asendant Shards. Which I will refer to as "sharding" moving forward. "Rage sharding" was the best part of the Dev Notes.

I don't know what they'll dismantle to, but it won't be Ascendant materials.

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[*]Positive changes to Cryptarch

You should still have some randomness in the decryption, but it should only be randomly a HIGHER quality item.

Legendary Engrams should mostly be purple, but sometimes yellow.
Blue engrams mostly blue, but sometimes purple.

Now, instead of hating the randomness, folks will enjoy it and never be frustrated or disappointed.

... If you already have Legendary gear from the vendors (which is superior to the QW gear),

Don't think that's true. I got a Queen's Guard Chest piece earlier that was marginally better than the Astrolord Vest from FWC I had already bought: +6 Intellect and +2 Discipline, everything else the same.

Buyer's remorse immediately set in on the FWC piece.

Looks like that Scout Rifle might be The One.

I was seduced by the Bad Seed Down(legendary pulse rifle) but the love is mutual; only one or two upgrades out from being maxxed and it has the same range and does more damage than my (rare) sniper rifles. I'm going to stand by her for a long time, I think.

-- Steve thinks the patches look to be for the better.

I'm referring to light level. I should've been more clear, apologies.

You still get the gear, it just can't be dismantled for Asendant Shards. Which I will refer to as "sharding" moving forward. "Rage sharding" was the best part of the Dev Notes.

I don't know what they'll dismantle to, but it won't be Ascendant materials.

Just glimmer and some of your class' armour materials then. Worth no more than a few uncommons...

Also Cody you got any tips for the strike in that bounty? It was kicking my fireteams ass.

I think that'd be good yeah

I wonder how they thought it was fun to to get less of something than you expected. When they were kids did they get excited on Christmas morning when all those presents under the tree turned out to be socks and underwear?

I'm referring to light level. I should've been more clear, apologies.

You mean on pieces you've bought and already upgraded? Cus the Queen's Guard pieces start at +18 Light just like all the Faction Vendor stuff, with 5 levels of upgrades.

Or am I missing something, and just trashed my Astrolord for no reason? :'(

Indeed. As long as it's possible in the game without cheating and it's not abusive toward other players, it's a valid way to play. Bungie may choose to patch it, but it is not the community's responsibility to police "exploits" in-game.

I figured Bungie would close up the loot cave. I was HOPING they wouldn't, but it seems they are changing engram drops in other areas to compensate for its absence, so that makes up for it.

I'm referring to light level. I should've been more clear, apologies.

You mean on pieces you've bought and already upgraded? Cus the Queen's Guard pieces start at +18 Light just like all the Faction Vendor stuff, with 5 levels of upgrades.

Or am I missing something, and just trashed my Astrolord for no reason? :'(

Yeah this is the way I understand it too. You choose legendary armor based on how it looks because it'll upgrade to the same light level (except for Raid gear of course).

You choose legendary armor based on how it looks because it'll upgrade to the same light level

You choose legendary armor based on how awesome it makes your handcannon.

Why give false hope that something *might* be better?

Make all the engrams one color.

Red, Orange, Rainbow, whatever.

You don't know if it is good or not until you de-crypt it.

Also, to save space in your inventory, stop putting weapon engrams in with weapon slots- just give engrams their own container in the inventory section to be decoded or exchanged like all the other trinkets you can take to the tower.

I'm referring to light level. I should've been more clear, apologies.

You mean on pieces you've bought and already upgraded? Cus the Queen's Guard pieces start at +18 Light just like all the Faction Vendor stuff, with 5 levels of upgrades.

Or am I missing something, and just trashed my Astrolord for no reason? :'(

Yeah this is the way I understand it too. You choose legendary armor based on how it looks because it'll upgrade to the same light level (except for Raid gear of course).

There's also the upgrades for carrying more ammo and faster reloads. I've been picking my armor off of those perks plus intellect, discipline, and strength. No need for a gauntlet that speeds up pulse rifle reloads if I'm using hand cannons 90% of the time.

Looks like that Scout Rifle might be The One.

I was seduced by the Bad Seed Down(legendary pulse rifle) but the love is mutual; only one or two upgrades out from being maxxed and it has the same range and does more damage than my (rare) sniper rifles. I'm going to stand by her for a long time, I think.

-- Steve thinks the patches look to be for the better.

Doesn't that one have the "Extra Ammo and Reload Speed from Near Death" perk? Is that any good? I've had my eye on Bad Seed and the Super Pox VLO for pulse rifles. Didn't like them to start, but perhaps my love of Scouts will open the way.

I'm referring to light level. I should've been more clear, apologies.

You mean on pieces you've bought and already upgraded? Cus the Queen's Guard pieces start at +18 Light just like all the Faction Vendor stuff, with 5 levels of upgrades.

Or am I missing something, and just trashed my Astrolord for no reason? :'(

Yeah this is the way I understand it too. You choose legendary armor based on how it looks because it'll upgrade to the same light level (except for Raid gear of course).

There's also the upgrades for carrying more ammo and faster reloads. I've been picking my armor off of those perks plus intellect, discipline, and strength. No need for a gauntlet that speeds up pulse rifle reloads if I'm using hand cannons 90% of the time.

Yeah I should probably pay attention to those more. I tend to switch between like 5 different guns, so maybe I should have extra armor...

Why give false hope that something *might* be better?

Make all the engrams one color.

Red, Orange, Rainbow, whatever.

You don't know if it is good or not until you de-crypt it.

Also, to save space in your inventory, stop putting weapon engrams in with weapon slots- just give engrams their own container in the inventory section to be decoded or exchanged like all the other trinkets you can take to the tower.

This would be better than the current system, but not as good as Cody's.

Not sure how I feel about the weapon changes. I already thought the shotgun's effective range felt much shorter than in any other game. I don't mind them making scout rifles better, but they already seem pretty good to me. And I wonder if my legendary assault rifle that I found will now be not worth using if they further decrease stability. There are only a couple of models that strike me as too effective at range. I don't know, maybe these changes make more sense in competitive.

Looks like that Scout Rifle might be The One.

I was seduced by the Bad Seed Down(legendary pulse rifle) but the love is mutual

Doesn't that one have the "Extra Ammo and Reload Speed from Near Death" perk? Is that any good? I've had my eye on Bad Seed and the Super Pox VLO for pulse rifles. Didn't like them to start, but perhaps my love of Scouts will open the way.

Not extra ammo IIRC, but yes the faster reload if your shields are down and have taken body damage helps me recover if I've been, er, over-intrepid.

-- Steve thinks it's one of those bennies that *shouldn't* be used regularly. :)

edited to add: You don't get extra ammo for being wounded but you can upgrade it to have either a larger magazine or a deeper ammo reserve. Since my boots let me carry extra pulse rifle ammo anyway, I went for the bigger clip... and hoo boy is that nice.

Not sure how I feel about the weapon changes. I already thought the shotgun's effective range felt much shorter than in any other game. I don't mind them making scout rifles better, but they already seem pretty good to me. And I wonder if my legendary assault rifle that I found will now be not worth using if they further decrease stability. There are only a couple of models that strike me as too effective at range. I don't know, maybe these changes make more sense in competitive.

I'm pretty sure it'll be the couple of models your thinking of (and a few others I can think of) that'll be affected. I don't think this will be an across the board change on all auto rifles.

I'm referring to light level. I should've been more clear, apologies.

You mean on pieces you've bought and already upgraded? Cus the Queen's Guard pieces start at +18 Light just like all the Faction Vendor stuff, with 5 levels of upgrades.

Or am I missing something, and just trashed my Astrolord for no reason? :'(

Yeah this is the way I understand it too. You choose legendary armor based on how it looks because it'll upgrade to the same light level (except for Raid gear of course).

There's also the upgrades for carrying more ammo and faster reloads. I've been picking my armor off of those perks plus intellect, discipline, and strength. No need for a gauntlet that speeds up pulse rifle reloads if I'm using hand cannons 90% of the time.

Yeah I should probably pay attention to those more. I tend to switch between like 5 different guns, so maybe I should have extra armor...

I rotate between my chest pieces a lot, especially when moving between PvE and the Crucible. It's good to have the slight nuances that buff things here and there.

Then I've also got certain items I wear for certain PvP gametypes and/or map (sometimes due to changing guns, as you mention!)

Why give false hope that something *might* be better?

Make all the engrams one color.

Red, Orange, Rainbow, whatever.

You don't know if it is good or not until you de-crypt it.

Also, to save space in your inventory, stop putting weapon engrams in with weapon slots- just give engrams their own container in the inventory section to be decoded or exchanged like all the other trinkets you can take to the tower.

Conceptually, I understand what you're saying, but it just seems like it would be more boring if every engram were one color. Since you don't even have to pick them up to get them, I suppose it doesn't matter, but I like seeing the blue ones pop out on occasion.

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I see.

Well, if the blue and purple get you excited then who am I to judge?

As of right now, all they do is rustle jimmies*

-Korny 2012

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Nice. I liked the changes and the friendly tone.

I love how the Fusion rifle requires you to plan ahead to use it effectively. Shotguns are for people who can't do that. :P

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I love how the Fusion rifle requires you to plan ahead to use it effectively. Shotguns are for people who can't do that. :P

Agreed. I've gotten a few angry XBL messages from shotgun campers because I beat them repeatedly by charging before I go around the corner :)

Let me wreck my credibility for a second: I'm basing this off of reports from people who have fully upgraded QW gear from reddit. I, unfortunately, have not had a chance to play any QW. Now, I probably won't thanks to the AM nerf. So, my information could be inaccurate. I really, really hope you didn't shard your Astrolord because of my post.

Yup, I figured I'd quit lurking and get involved :) I really want to do the Vault of Glass with this group when I'm high enough level.

Also, I'll text you later to hang out Sunday afternoon for lunch and to catch up. Though this isn't the place for this discussion ...

Bungie has to be careful here. Nerfing weapons that players may have spent weeks getting (either by drop or marks), and possibly even more time leveling up, can lead to a lot of frustration.

[...]

If your game has a sizeable investment system, it is more important than ever that it be stable.

Good thing they are patching it 2 weeks in, aye? The game is just a baby.
Besides, unless they over do it, the worst is that the weapon becomes about as good as other high ranked weapons, instead of OP like it apparently is. It'd be disappointing, but it's not like the investment was wasted, as it should still be a weapon on par with others.

From the Dev notes sounds like they are going to increase the number of engrams you get for actually completing activities, which definitely sounds like a good idea to me. Personally I think you should get a drop from compeleting every activity even if it's just a crappy green item you can dismantle.

I totally agree, and to help fill the void of the Loot Cave you need to give the players what they really want (borrowing form Diablo and Borderlands) which is the 'Loot-splosion!'. If they get rid of random drops on minions during a strike and instead have the boss explode in the cumulative loot, I would be SO HAPPY! That summary screen drop is just not gratifying enough!

Let me wreck my credibility for a second: I'm basing this off of reports from people who have fully upgraded QW gear from reddit. I, unfortunately, have not had a chance to play any QW. Now, I probably won't thanks to the AM nerf. So, my information could be inaccurate. I really, really hope you didn't shard your Astrolord because of my post.

No I didn't shard it because of you, I sharded it earlier because I thought it was totally obsolete.

Man, if I really can't upgrade the QG stuff to the equivalent light levels, then I'm a bit annoyed. This game really, really, really needs to communicate itself better.

All those CruMarks man...

Ya know, like the it has the /damage and /defense to let you know what it can be upgrade TO, shouldn't it also do that for Light?

That this gun cannot shoot bullets backwards is a catastrophe. Preorder cancelled!

Yup, I figured I'd quit lurking and get involved :) I really want to do the Vault of Glass with this group when I'm high enough level.

Also, I'll text you later to hang out Sunday afternoon for lunch and to catch up. Though this isn't the place for this discussion ...

The pool of people here on XBone is a bit smaller, but they are here, and many want to raid.

It's also super fun :-p

That should be patched in. Great idea.

I totally agree, and to help fill the void of the Loot Cave you need to give the players what they really want (borrowing form Diablo and Borderlands) which is the 'Loot-splosion!'. If they get rid of random drops on minions during a strike and instead have the boss explode in the cumulative loot, I would be SO HAPPY! That summary screen drop is just not gratifying enough!

You kind of get that loot explosion when you complete parts of the raid. As the tension builds in the fight, and comes to a climax, everythign blows up, then the soft music sets in and you are given an item. This happens maybe 5 or so times during the course of the Vault of Glass.

The pool of people here on XBone is a bit smaller, but they are here, and many want to raid.

I am one of those. Welcome to DBO by the way!

Also Cody you got any tips for the strike in that bounty? It was kicking my fireteams ass.

Level up? It was really hard until I and my fireteam hit 27 or so. It just went from hard to not so hard. In the final room, keeping mobile and going around the room in circles is much safer than staying in the door.

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Yeah Ive ran the strike quite a few times and I don't expect the phogoth part to be the problem. But the first part where you Ghost decryipts those moon runes was what stopped us.

It didn't help that I was the only one in my fireteam that keeps weapons of each element to switch to handy.

The pool of people here on XBone is a bit smaller, but they are here, and many want to raid.

Looks like Xbone users are outnumbering PS4 users at the moment, if the gamertag spreadsheet is any indication.

http://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=32704

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Yeah Ive ran the strike quite a few times and I don't expect the phogoth part to be the problem. But the first part where you Ghost decryipts those moon runes was what stopped us.

It didn't help that I was the only one in my fireteam that keeps weapons of each element to switch to handy.

Arc fusion rifles, and solar rockets for everyone. An arc sniper for someone maybe. Hang out in the entrance. Take out the knights one by one. If the wizards rush, just have everybody give them all rockets to the face, especially if they bunch up. Stock up on ammo packs for heavy and special.

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Not sure how I feel about the weapon changes. I already thought the shotgun's effective range felt much shorter than in any other game. I don't mind them making scout rifles better, but they already seem pretty good to me. And I wonder if my legendary assault rifle that I found will now be not worth using if they further decrease stability. There are only a couple of models that strike me as too effective at range. I don't know, maybe these changes make more sense in competitive.

I'm pretty sure it'll be the couple of models your thinking of (and a few others I can think of) that'll be affected. I don't think this will be an across the board change on all auto rifles.

A mate of mine has a Shingen AR that has very high ROF, high stability, pretty good range and okay impact...he pretty much dismantles every other AR he gets.

I'm pretty sure it'll be the couple of models your thinking of (and a few others I can think of) that'll be affected. I don't think this will be an across the board change on all auto rifles.

A mate of mine has a Shingen AR that has very high ROF, high stability, pretty good range and okay impact...he pretty much dismantles every other AR he gets.

Exactly one of the ones I was thinking of!

My experience is that for ever level the armor can upgrade, you get one light. You get this at the point of possible upgrade, you don't even have to buy the upgrade to get the light level. So there is some base you need to start with for any given piece of armor, but otherwise it should just about reach the same max sense blue and purple have the same number of upgrades between themselves. I don't know anything about yellow yet :(

Or if you will is really strong, like yours truly, then you can ignore the loot system to a large degree and just have fun. The leveling and armor upgrades are a byproduct of fun, and only force me to up the difficulty if I want to keep having fun.

The bummer for me is being left behind in levels. So far I'm 24 and my brother is 26, and that is manageable, but not ideal.

Not sure how I feel about the weapon changes. I already thought the shotgun's effective range felt much shorter than in any other game. I don't mind them making scout rifles better, but they already seem pretty good to me. And I wonder if my legendary assault rifle that I found will now be not worth using if they further decrease stability. There are only a couple of models that strike me as too effective at range. I don't know, maybe these changes make more sense in competitive.

I'm pretty sure it'll be the couple of models your thinking of (and a few others I can think of) that'll be affected. I don't think this will be an across the board change on all auto rifles.

A mate of mine has a Shingen AR that has very high ROF, high stability, pretty good range and okay impact...he pretty much dismantles every other AR he gets.

I didn't know there were any Shingens with good stability. All the ones I've used kick like a whole team of mules. I guess that would be something to correct, then.

Then there's this autorifle... positively begging for a nerfing.

-- Steve only put it away after finding a Legendary pulse rifle, and it took a damage upgrade to really distingish that over this monster.

Bungie has to be careful here. Nerfing weapons that players may have spent weeks getting (either by drop or marks), and possibly even more time leveling up, can lead to a lot of frustration.

[...]

If your game has a sizeable investment system, it is more important than ever that it be stable.

Good thing they are patching it 2 weeks in, aye? The game is just a baby.
Besides, unless they over do it, the worst is that the weapon becomes about as good as other high ranked weapons, instead of OP like it apparently is. It'd be disappointing, but it's not like the investment was wasted, as it should still be a weapon on par with others.

Just glad I haven't yet spent my marks on Shadow Price.

Not sure how I feel about the weapon changes. I already thought the shotgun's effective range felt much shorter than in any other game. I don't mind them making scout rifles better, but they already seem pretty good to me. And I wonder if my legendary assault rifle that I found will now be not worth using if they further decrease stability. There are only a couple of models that strike me as too effective at range. I don't know, maybe these changes make more sense in competitive.

I got a shotgun in the Vault of Glass that already had a lot of range, but it had an ability and sight to further upgrade it. With the upgrades, it is positively beastly, and seriously overpower in the crucible. I've been killing folks when I hear them charge their fusion rifles, and they are somewhat distant.

This thing is a beast in the Vault of glass. High stability, TWO range upgrades, and nice impact. Precision damage every shot. I have yet to find a legendary with higher DPS.

Unless I'm mistaken, the guns are not nerfed in THIS update, but in a future one. So players should have plenty of time to bring a new gun up to max while they continue to use their OP guns as need be.

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You choose legendary armor based on how it looks because it'll upgrade to the same light level

You choose legendary armor based on how awesome it makes your handcannon.

Graviton, right?

I got one that fires in Full Auto. Wastes a lot of ammo, but damn it feels just right.

I was mapping the statistics (from B.Net as well as DpS, DpM, and actual fire rate/reload time in seconds etc.) of all the weapons for a nice handy spreadsheet. Was planning to post it once I at least mapped all the Uncommons, and update it as I went along with Rares, Legendary and Exotics.

Now at least 33% of my data is going to be partially incorrect, and Im not sure I want to go through all that finding, testing, recording and frame counting again.

I was mapping the statistics (from B.Net as well as DpS, DpM, and actual fire rate/reload time in seconds etc.) of all the weapons for a nice handy spreadsheet. Was planning to post it once I at least mapped all the Uncommons, and update it as I went along with Rares, Legendary and Exotics.

Now at least 33% of my data is going to be partially incorrect, and Im not sure I want to go through all that finding, testing, recording and frame counting again.

I have a feeling that with the kind of game Destiny is that this will be a common occurrence over the years :)

Maybe it'll still be usable, if they tweak only the ratings. Fingers crossed.

Galahad is what I use, too. I've been saving for the Shadow Price. May be holding off on that purchase...

How did these changes not get made prior to retail release? I know they made changes based on feedback from the Beta. I'm not griefing Bungie, I'm genuinely curious as to how something like this happens. It took the players all of 6 days to realize the ARs and Shotguns were OP, while the other weapons were useless in PvP. How does something like that make it through internal testing which, I presume, went on for months or years?

You might be right, in which case I'd like to see a but more transparency on weapon stats. Sliding bars are good for a quick "which is faster/stronger", but it couldnt hurt to see exactly HOW MUCH faster/stronger.

If nothing else, I can impart that:
A) Rockets are rubbish for Damage over Time
B) All weapons of the same variety do roughly the same DpS in PvP though not exactly (Auto rifles fluctuate between 160 and 165, Scouts from 117-120ish) - so pick your PvP weapons based on stability rather than raw impact (or range on shotguns). NB: May not apply to Legendaries and above.
C) Red Dot-OAS is the best sight for Stability. Equip it wherever possible for PvP
D) Even a Reload Speed difference of 10% (on B.Net) is only a difference of 5 frames, or 0.17 seconds. Not that huge of a difference!
E) The most important stat for PvE DpM (after Attack Rating) is Magazine Size, though obviously Stability affects your ability to land the hits
F) The speed at which Fusion Rifle shots travel is affected by the Range stat. Plan accordingly for distant/fast targets.

So long as only Range or Stability are affected, It's only a case of re-finding the right weapons with the right sights and checking B.Net for stats. Even if Impact is changed (Scout Rifles) it should be easy enough to update (once/if I find the right gear again).

If RoF or Reload are changed that means recording a whole bunch of footage again and recounting Frames. We'll see. Maybe Bungie will be awesome and give specifics when the patch goes live.

If they get the Counterbalance upgrade they hardly even budge. Headshots, all day long.

The other weapons aren't useless. I do pretty well with good Pulse and Scout rifles. Hand cannons can tear people up in two to three shots at mid to close ranges. It's just some Auto Rifles hit too hard from too far away. I'm not entirely sure why they're buffing Scout Rifles though. My good ones can kill you at range in four headshots... Seems pretty good to me.

Getting to 3 is still taking forever, especially with the bounties that are impossible. Even if they were only worth a little it's better than nothing. At least wearing the cosmetic stuff gives you a bonus when turning in bounties I guess.

My Axe-box 360, that is!

Talk about utter garbage. Fusion Rifles are like a Boltshot in H4, except they can cross map you. Get it together Bungie.

Yes! He hasn't screwed me over all that much, but now that the loot cave is gone, it'll be nice to get some better stuff from engrams.

[*]Positive changes to Cryptarch

You should still have some randomness in the decryption, but it should only be randomly a HIGHER quality item.

Legendary Engrams should mostly be purple, but sometimes yellow.
Blue engrams mostly blue, but sometimes purple.

Now, instead of hating the randomness, folks will enjoy it and never be frustrated or disappointed.

According to the dev notes, currently it does both. Isn't it odd you only hear about it when it turns out bad? (he said, the sarcasm dripping off and forming small pools) Anyway, I'd prefer one actually descriptive type/class/rank/category/whatever over your idea.

I totally know what they mean about personality. Some flaws and annoyances are just annoying, and others... well, there are two different Twitter accounts dedicated to just making jokes about the engram system. Some flaws inspire people to make jokes or to figure out how they might fit or how they might work or do other creative things.

Social

Voice Communication
Our vision for Destiny is that all players, even matchmade players in the Crucible, Strikes, the Tower or public spaces, be able to communicate with one another in a way that promotes positive socialization. Voice communication is the easy answer, but existing voice paradigms, including those in our own Halo games, have not done enough to protect players from abusive griefing from a minority of players.

Destiny's near-term solution will be to allow players to opt-in to voice communication during matchmade activities. Work on this feature was underway at launch and should be rolled out this year in Strikes and the Crucible.

I cannot tell you how excited I got about this. We're talking bodily fluids, almost.

I'm waiting for the patch, but I'm like 90% sure I'm dismantling my Thorn, too. Having two different "The Devil You Know"s has me content enough, and so I'll definitely need the Energy. Working on another invective at the same time, too...

By the way, what did you get for Dismantling yours? How many shards/energy?

I'm waiting for the patch, but I'm like 90% sure I'm dismantling my Thorn, too. Having two different "The Devil You Know"s has me content enough, and so I'll definitely need the Energy. Working on another invective at the same time, too...

By the way, what did you get for Dismantling yours? How many shards/energy?

5 Shards. I think it was shards. 5 of something. Totally worth it.

By the way, what did you get for Dismantling yours? How many shards/energy?

5 Shards. Totally worth it.

Yup, Thorn and the spare Invective are eating dust...

The shard exploits that I was telling you about aside, Exotic bounties look like a good way to implement more than just the weapons, to make it easier to get Shards/energy. The last bounty for Thorn was a serious challenge, and required patience and skill. If we could do stuff like that for five shards, I'd be perfectly happy.

I've done the weekly on 28 twice today, because it was fun, challenging, and I got 9 rare coins out of the deal. Bungie should look into that rather than "Complete 25 Strikes"... But that wouldn't be Grindy enough, would it?

I've done the weekly on 28 twice today, because it was fun, challenging, and I got 9 rare coins out of the deal. Bungie should look into that rather than "Complete 25 Strikes"... But that wouldn't be Grindy enough, would it?

There's a bunch of unused places in the game which would have been perfect for cool unique exotic bounty tasks. Even if it's not new, it seems like it would be trivial to populate existing areas with different enemy encounters. The Vanquish challenge maps are all spaces from the campaign, but they feel really different because the encounters and battle flow are completely new.

Why anybody at Bungie thought that grindy bounties would be a good addition is beyond me.

F) The speed at which Fusion Rifle shots travel is affected by the Range stat. Plan accordingly for distant/fast targets.

Whoa

Thanks for quick list, man!

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I didn't know there were any Shingens with good stability. All the ones I've used kick like a whole team of mules. I guess that would be something to correct, then.

Just to give you an idea of how bad it can be, this is MY Shingen-E (which I honestly never use anymore) with the Fitted Stock upgrade:

How did these changes not get made prior to retail release? I know they made changes based on feedback from the Beta. I'm not griefing Bungie, I'm genuinely curious as to how something like this happens. It took the players all of 6 days to realize the ARs and Shotguns were OP, while the other weapons were useless in PvP. How does something like that make it through internal testing which, I presume, went on for months or years?

They actually did make adjustments between the beta and the final release, they even talked about it. They just obviously didn't have enough time and data to see if their adjustments were good enough, now they do.