I had no idea what title to give this, so I smashed the titles together. What has language done!

Gamasutra, a GameDev news site, has had some really interesting articles as of late that have given some informed perspectives that I feel may be useful to some of you. Enjoy!

• Randomness and Game Design
  
• Psychology and Destiny's Loot System
  
• Destiny and the Modern Competitive FPS Game Design Paradigm

Multiplayer achievements (and Destiny bounties) can help a game by motivating the player to explore and master mechanics they might have been otherwise ignoring. Unfortunately, they can influence player behavior away from what would be the optimal strategy for that particular match/moment (e.g. you're more likely to make bad melee attempts if you're trying to get a melee attack achievement/bounty). This is especially problematic when the same set of bounties are given to everyone at the same time -- when the queen bounties first appeared, crucible instantly became overcrowded with people exclusively using hand cannons and scout rifles trying to get headshots for their bounties.

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This is especially problematic when the same set of bounties are given to everyone at the same time[/size]

...giving people bounties customised to their own play history.

There is the tiniest amount of this already there: in that when you pick up new snipers and shotguns as you're leveling up, sometimes you are given extra bounties for that weapon type.

I think Destiny's end game was designed in such a way that it paints itself into a very interesting corner.

When we look at the things Jason Jones has said about the end game, it all makes sense within a certain context. I can see the train of thought:

* People replayed Halo missions like crazy.
* Therefore, people are going to replay Destiny missions like crazy.
* Therefore, it would be nice to give people rewards and bonuses for replaying these missions.

The flaw in this train of thought is that it doesn't account for human nature: as soon as upgrades, levels, and collectable gear are offered to the player, they are not seen as "bonuses". They are goals; things to be earned. Level 30 is not just something you will hit eventually as a reward for playing, it is a target that requires thought and planning and a lot of deliberately structured play.

So now the focus shifts. People aren't exclusively playing the parts of the game they enjoy, just for the heck of it. They're playing the stuff they need to play in order to progress. And that makes all the difference in the world. I enjoy the crucible from time to time as a bit of a pallet cleanser. But in my urgency to rank up, I've found myself playing more than I naturally would in order to earn marks so I can buy gear. Now, PvP is a chore to me. I've had to make a conscious decision not play PvP unless I want to. As a result, my progress through the end game has slowed. I feel like I'm being punished for playing the parts of the game I want to play.

This is where bounties, materials, and collectables come in to play. As others have pointed out, bounties (or achievements) come with a cost. They can add variety, sure. But they also encourage behavior that can be problematic, especially in PvP. Once again, players are forced into a corner where playing the game the way they want to play is not enough to progress. We have to play the way we are told, or miss out on the payouts/rewards.

All of these decisions pull Destiny's end game away from what Jason Jones described in the 2013 interview.

Perhaps Crucible bounties should be limited to those that fit within goals of the game type as they already exist.

Some people will get shotty boundaries, some headshots, some super, etc.

Since they are all random, hopefully you will end up with a game where people's play styles are varied. maybe.

I like when my fireteam can synchronize our bounties like "Capture 10 points in control" so I'd like those to be left alone. But yeah, the kill people a specific way bounties could be randomized without affecting a fireteam.

Some bounties make sense to be randomize, such as get kills with X weapon, but other bounties should be the same for all players (complete story mission Y on Heroic).

What surprises me is that it seems Bungie didn't put any thought into how Bounties were handled at all, just making it totally random each week so that there have already been several impossible bounties (things that required Queen rank 2+ on day 1, things that required Salvage to be available as a gametype in PvP, etc..). This whole system feels kind of slapped together.

Perhaps Crucible bounties should be limited to those that fit within goals of the game type as they already exist.

There would just be one bounty then: win games.

Some bounties make sense to be randomize, such as get kills with X weapon, but other bounties should be the same for all players (complete story mission Y on Heroic).

well, those are vanguard bounties, so we agree on that.

All of these decisions pull Destiny's end game away from what Jason Jones described in the 2013 interview.

The thing that strikes me as clueless about that quote is that he assumes that replaying a game in and of itself is something desirable. It's not. What good is someone replaying your game if they aren't really having that much fun, or are bearing a grind to get to what IS fun?

Have you ever heard anybody say, "oh, I paid ten bucks to see this film, but I only got 90 minutes of moviewatch. This other film gave me 180 minutes of moviewatch, so it's better." That's how silly you sound when you talk about how many hours of gameplay you got, as if that means the game is good because of it.

This idea of hours spent on a game being desirable in and of itself, of being an indicator of quality, is the kind of toxic mindset I thought we moved away from as JRPGs started to wane in popularity in the early 2000s.

There is no point in wanting players to replay your game if it's not fun; it's got to be something they do on their own. Halo did this well by offering a wide variety of playstyles, as well as complex and interesting encounters with many ways to approach them. So players would try what suited them if they wished. You could pick what you wanted, so you were pretty much guaranteed to get an interesting experience because you sought it out due to your own interest.

Destiny forces replaying, by holding back progression. I replayed 'A Stranger's Call' this morning in the hopes of getting 2 ascendant energies (I got 2 ascendant shards instead, when I already have a zilion of them). It wasn't really that interesting, and I spent longer wishing I could skip the cutscene than I did playing the mission.

Your goal as a game designer should be, in simple terms, to make each second someone spends with your game as interesting as possible. That typically means not frustrating people with systems designed to lock progression without forced replayability. If your player masters whatever challenge you have thrown at him, he should be able to move on to the next one, immediately, with nothing being put in his way.

You have to offer incentives to people for things they don't want to do. So if you feel like you have to create incentives to play your game again, think about what that actually means.

Perhaps Crucible bounties should be limited to those that fit within goals of the game type as they already exist.

There would just be one bounty then: win games.

Nah, you play control to control the zones, etc. Plus, there's my favorite Crucible bounty, Play 3 Crucible games.

This is where bounties, materials, and collectables come in to play. As others have pointed out, bounties (or achievements) come with a cost. They can add variety, sure.

The thing is though, bounties aren't interesting challenges in their own right. If a bounty was a mini story, that spawned monsters on an interesting part of the map in interesting encounters for example, that might be one thing. As it is now, there is nothing interesting about completing them. The tasks themselves are simple, and you just have to do a lot of them.

Add to that, there's the fact that there are very few bounties. I think the same story mission bounty to do the Garden's Spire and Archive mission came up 2 days in a row. I see the same "Kill 2 enemies at a time with a fusion rifle" bounty. Destiny's world needed to be more open and more interactive, to offer more types or, and more interesting types of bounties.

Any side mission in Deus Ex is an example of what a bounty should be.

Perhaps Crucible bounties should be limited to those that fit within goals of the game type as they already exist.

There would just be one bounty then: win games.

Nah, you play control to control the zones, etc. Plus, there's my favorite Crucible bounty, Play 3 Crucible games.

You play control to get the most points. You score points by killing, and get bonuses for controlling zones. It does not follow that your goal is going to be controlling zones. You may be better off protecting or zoning an area while your teammate captures a zone, or you may be better off simply holding Zone B and C on blind watch, only ever making 2 zone captures the entire match because you simply lock them down and kill the enemy the rest of the time.

Yes, but if everyone is trying to control the zones kills will naturally follow. It's like Field of Dreams but with more guns. :)

Yes, but if everyone is trying to control the zones kills will naturally follow.

But it's not a given that you'll be going about it well. Lone wolf cap followed by getting immediately stomped on and losing a zone isn't necessarily a great plan, but it's encouraged by that sort of bounty.

I think Jones said that under the assumption that missions in Destiny would be as inherently enjoyable as the missions in Halo, so people would want to replay them just as much.

Whether or not Bungie was successful in that regard is debatable, but I don't think Jones was saying "rewards and unlocks should be the only reason people replay these missions". For some people, however, I think that is exactly the currently situation.

Multiplayer achievements (and Destiny bounties) can help a game by motivating the player to explore and master mechanics they might have been otherwise ignoring. Unfortunately, they can influence player behavior away from what would be the optimal strategy for that particular match/moment (e.g. you're more likely to make bad melee attempts if you're trying to get a melee attack achievement/bounty). This is especially problematic when the same set of bounties are given to everyone at the same time -- when the queen bounties first appeared, crucible instantly became overcrowded with people exclusively using hand cannons and scout rifles trying to get headshots for their bounties.

Yeah, this is a problem for me, because I just got a special bounty to survive five strike missions in a row. If I actually try to do that, it's going to be a burden on the rest of the team, as I hang back and play it extra safe. If I'm on the fifth one, am I really going to take a risk to try and raise a downed teammate across the battlefield? I doubt it.

Yeah, this is a problem for me, because I just got a special bounty to survive five strike missions in a row. If I actually try to do that, it's going to be a burden on the rest of the team, as I hang back and play it extra safe. If I'm on the fifth one, am I really going to take a risk to try and raise a downed teammate across the battlefield? I doubt it.

Err, there's a bounty for 5 in a row without dying?

A Dubious Task has 5 without dying, but they don't need to be in a row.

Not that the game makes this (or anything) clear.

I ran Devils Lair 5 times on the lowest difficulty. Wasn't hard at all.

Yeah, this is a problem for me, because I just got a special bounty to survive five strike missions in a row. If I actually try to do that, it's going to be a burden on the rest of the team, as I hang back and play it extra safe. If I'm on the fifth one, am I really going to take a risk to try and raise a downed teammate across the battlefield? I doubt it.

Err, there's a bounty for 5 in a row without dying?

A Dubious Task has 5 without dying, but they don't need to be in a row.

Not that the game makes this (or anything) clear.

Oh, okay, I guess I assumed 5 without dying means all of them together with no deaths in between, in the same way that some of the other no death bounties reset the counter when you die. Good to know it's not as bad as I thought it was.

Destiny forces replaying, by holding back progression. I replayed 'A Stranger's Call' this morning in the hopes of getting 2 ascendant energies (I got 2 ascendant shards instead, when I already have a zilion of them). It wasn't really that interesting, and I spent longer wishing I could skip the cutscene than I did playing the mission.

LOL. I wish we could trade. I have a buttload of Ascendant Energy I don't need, and play the Daily for Shards, but always get Energy.

Always.

Destiny forces replaying, by holding back progression. I replayed 'A Stranger's Call' this morning in the hopes of getting 2 ascendant energies (I got 2 ascendant shards instead, when I already have a zilion of them). It wasn't really that interesting, and I spent longer wishing I could skip the cutscene than I did playing the mission.

LOL. I wish we could trade. I have a buttload of Ascendant Energy I don't need, and play the Daily for Shards, but always get Energy.

Always.

It's almost as if the game sees which one you don't need, and gives you that instead.

Destiny forces replaying, by holding back progression. I replayed 'A Stranger's Call' this morning in the hopes of getting 2 ascendant energies (I got 2 ascendant shards instead, when I already have a zilion of them). It wasn't really that interesting, and I spent longer wishing I could skip the cutscene than I did playing the mission.

LOL. I wish we could trade. I have a buttload of Ascendant Energy I don't need, and play the Daily for Shards, but always get Energy.

Always.

It's almost as if the game sees which one you don't need, and gives you that instead.

That would be insidious. But I'd be lying if I said the thought hadn't crossed my mind. I'm not that cynical about Destiny's motives.

Yet.