So I've done several complete Raid runs (normal and hard) since the patch that randomizes the teleportations during the battle against Atheon. As I expected, the battle is now much more difficult than it used to be. I'm ok with "more challenging", but I've come to the conclusion that defeating Atheon is now needlessly frustrating.

The idea of selecting 3 players at random to be sent to the past or future flies in the face of what makes the rest of the raid so much fun: playing a role. Before the patch, everyone in the fireteam could choose a role that fits their strengths, gear, playstyle, and abilities. Now it's pure chaos.

Because so much of the outcome is now down to chance, the entire battle feels like you're just repeatedly bashing your head into a brick wall until you happen to hit the right brick and break through. Particularly on Hard mode, where having a level 30 carry the relic is extra important. No level 30 got teleported this time? TOO BAD.

Does anyone else feel this way about it? What do we think are the chances of further tweaks from Bungie?

Does anyone else feel this way about it? What do we think are the chances of further tweaks from Bungie?

I don't really think it's that bad. I ran hard mode before I fell asleep and missed out on your raid (sorry), and all it really added was a 10 second conversation about who should pick it up if teleported. I think it took 3 tries, since some people didn't know how to kill supplicants, but figured it out quickly :-)

I haven't noticed too much of a difference with my raid group, but then we've only run it on normal. I'm sure it's a whole different experience on hard with the changes

We still have designated relic holders (ranked in a certain order) and it works pretty well. I forget who it was (you?) that worked out the statistics, and you've got a really good chance (80% IIRC) of having either the primary or secondary relic holder be teleported. Up to 95% if you have a designated tertiary relic holder.

The difficulty we have isn't with the relic holder, it's when people get teleported that don't have the dps to kill the oracles fast enough. I find I can use the relic's super to blast one of the last few if we're going too slow & that helps.

Having assigned roles made the whole fight tedious and repetitive to me. Stand on this pillar, shoot 9 times. Wait 5 seconds, shoot 9 times, run to the back, shoot shoot shoot, repeat. Now everyone has to be more aware of what's going on and the whole fight is much more dynamic. The only real challenge is learning how to use the relic, but once you know what's up, you're in a great shape.

Grenade = Cleanse. (Holding this down during the "shoot atheon" phase keeps the cleanse shield up and protects your raid members from atheon's attacks.)
Melee = melee
Jump and shoot = jump and amazeballs ground slamming action

There, now you know everything you need to know to defeat Atheon.

It's not as random as it first seems, and you can overcome it with superior planning.

If you still can't use Voice Chat, Nevin, you'd be best as Delta, Echo or Foxtrot in the above plan: as there is no need for them to speak.

To me, the problem is selecting weapons that will be effective enough against Oracles AND the supplicants outside. Since you don't have enough time to switch weapons on the fly, you need to pick a loadout that can be effective in both situations. Not a problem on a normal run, but on Hard mode I'm finding it near-impossible. My fully upgraded legendary AR (unwilling soul)is my best tool against supplicants, but it can't take down an oracle with a full clip of 72 rounds.

Is there something obvious I'm missing?

To me, the problem is selecting weapons that will be effective enough against Oracles AND the supplicants outside. Since you don't have enough time to switch weapons on the fly, you need to pick a loadout that can be effective in both situations. Not a problem on a normal run, but on Hard mode I'm finding it near-impossible. My fully upgraded legendary AR (unwilling soul)is my best tool against supplicants, but it can't take down an oracle with a full clip of 72 rounds.

Is there something obvious I'm missing?

Use a weapon that has the Anti-Oracle perk?

I've seen both a sniper and AR with it. Which both drop in the Vault of Glass. Then have other weapons that you're comfortable killing Supplicants/whatever with?

EDIT:
Assault Rifle = [link=http://destiny.wikia.com/wiki/Atheon's_Epilogue]Atheon's Epilogue[/link]
Sniper Rifle = [link=http://destiny.wikia.com/wiki/Praedyth's_Revenge]Praedyth's Revenge[/link]

That's a great idea RC... Thanks!

Don't have any weapons with anti-oracle perks yet, unfortunately.

Thanks for the tips, but everyone in my group is quite comfortable using the relic. Doing it on normal is fine, it's hard mode that's proving to be frustrating every time I run it.

Ha... just noticed this:
https://twitter.com/Bungie/status/530423885804871680

Is there some trick to killing supplicant's that I'm unaware of? Don't you just shoot them like normal?

Is there some trick to killing supplicant's that I'm unaware of? Don't you just shoot them like normal?

They die normally, but maybe he means staying off the ground? I kept getting cooked until I listened to what IconicBanana (I think?) had been saying for like, 20 minutes.

Get on a pillar and it's all good.

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Not a problem on a normal run, but on Hard mode I'm finding it near-impossible.

Atheon's epilogue was doable on the supplicants.

I've heard good things about it. But you can only get it by beating the Raid on hard, right?

I've heard good things about it. But you can only get it by beating the Raid on hard, right?

No, it drops from Atheon on hard or normal.

Ah, good to know. Thanks.

The hard run we started last night has given me nothing but shards and energy so far. Only 1 drop left lol

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All I was saying was "Get away from me you bitches!"

I've heard good things about it. But you can only get it by beating the Raid on hard, right?

I got it on a Normal run.

For those who never did the raid before it was changed, we'll never know what was different, so...

I've heard good things about it. But you can only get it by beating the Raid on hard, right?

I got it on a Normal run.

As did I.

It'll mean that we'll all have a better knowledge of what needs to be done, and it won't seem so mysterious. On my first Raid I teleported only a few times by accident, and it was terrifying each time because I had no idea what to do.

I could hear the chat of the away team, but I had no context for what they were talking about.