It is pretty clear to me that auto rifles are still the go to weapon in the crucible. Often only one or two other players will have something other then an auto rifle primary, and those people inevitably have a Vex, other exotic or vault of glass weapon.

Now I love hand cannons, and I do pretty well with them in PVE, but as soon as a PVP game gets going those Suros Regimes come out and people can kill me at range and close in with equal facility no matter what I'm using.

Add on to that the Titans and their lighting and pulse grenades, a melee which actually kill things and the all purpose get out of jail free card that is Fist of Havoc, and it gets pretty ridiculous.

Bungie really needs to take another look at auto rifles. The shotgun change has definitely evened out the special weapon spread, but I've been on teams where EVERYONE, on both sides other then myself had Suros Regimes. Also, do something about the worthless skip grenade.

It is pretty clear to me that auto rifles are still the go to weapon in the crucible. Often only one or two other players will have something other then an auto rifle primary, and those people inevitably have a Vex, other exotic or vault of glass weapon.

Not sure what games you're playing in. I keep getting torn apart by the new Battle Rifles (Pulse Rifles post-patch). Four shot kills basically at any time from anywhere on the map. They're beast to use and beast to have used against you.

Now I love hand cannons, and I do pretty well with them in PVE, but as soon as a PVP game gets going those Suros Regimes come out and people can kill me at range and close in with equal facility no matter what I'm using.

I play with people and can't seem to stop getting matched against people with Hand Cannons. They tear people up. Maybe you need to get your aim up? I have no problem taking down people who use the Suros. I attribute that to skill.

For the record, I absolutely love the Suros and am just fine if everyone in the game has it and is using it. I love using it. I love beating people with it. It can't stand up to a Pulse Rifle in the hands of someone who can aim and strafe. It can't stand up to someone else with an Auto Rifle who can aim and strafe better than they can.

Add on to that the Titans and their lighting and pulse grenades, a melee which actually kill things and the all purpose get out of jail free card that is Fist of Havoc, and it gets pretty ridiculous.

That's funny. Those heatseeking and cluster grenades that the other classes have are a pain in the ass. The lightning grenade just about never kills me or gets kills for me, and the pulse grenade is about the only thing I have that can stand up to the Warlock's myriad of obnoxious grenade types. Now, I'll give you the melee. It's so overpowered, but it definitely suits my CQB style of play. As for your rage at my Super, yeah right. Considering the bullshit of blade dancers and golden guns, I need a get out of jail free card.

Bungie really needs to take another look at auto rifles. The shotgun change has definitely evened out the special weapon spread, but I've been on teams where EVERYONE, on both sides other then myself had Suros Regimes. Also, do something about the worthless skip grenade.

I still think this comes down to you getting your aim up. Suros has been dealt a pretty strong blow at distance with the recent tuning, and Pulse Rifles are just beast up close or at a distance. My Suros doesn't often lose out to other people with Suros, too. I think it's a matter of aiming and landing those headshots. I have a very difficult time beating certain Hand Cannons in the hands of people who know how to hit headshots, too. I'm still not a fan of the Scout Rifle.

Edit: Now some real nerfing needs to take place with Fusion Rifles. Those guns are completely jacked up. And I thought the Boltshot in H4 was bad. I'd rather deal with a Boltshot than the Fusion Rifle garbage in Destiny.

Shadow Price for my Striker Titan :) but only because I haven't gotten Regime yet I suppose. I bought Doctor Nope just to see how well a high ROF would do. The problem with Nope is that the high ROF seems to make aiming more sluggish. I can make quicker adjustments while scoped with Shadow. I'm dissappointed that there doesn't seem to be more balance in crucible, but I think thats partly due to map layout and where players choose to play in those maps. It always seems like all the action is in the tight short range areas.

I really wanted to be a scout rifle guy, but I'm finding that either scouts aren't as good, or I just suck at getting consist single shots to land. Maybe a little of both.

Bungie really needs to take another look at auto rifles. The shotgun change has definitely evened out the special weapon spread, but I've been on teams where EVERYONE, on both sides other then myself had Suros Regimes. Also, do something about the worthless skip grenade.

I'm of the opinion that the Auto Rifle is the only primary to use - and that game balance is essentially broken. I'm not saying certain people can't win in certain situations in games - I'm saying, for me (and from what I've observed of others)...I don't die from any other primary. Maybe a hand cannon once in a while. I have to believe that AR makes up the vast majority of primary kills.

There is no reason not to use an AR. Even at distance, a Scout Rifle has little advantage. They've got a ton of wonderful guns and little reason to use them.

I die from ARs, supers, shotguns, fusion rifles, machine guns, rockets, and snipers in that order (or close to it). That's essentially it. I've been trying to use a Scout, but it generally means camping like one or two places all the time. I see my sniper buddies there a lot too.

I've been wondering what stat could be altered to further enhance balance without simply flipping the situation to where everyone uses scouts. A damage increase seems to be too much. Rate of fire increases to scouts could help.

I think the best solution is to have hand cannons and scouts with high impacts cause more of a reticle imbalance to other players. This would make it slightly harder for them to hit you, especial at range. That way the autos are still good at their normal range while not under fire, but in a battle, the jumping reticle would cause them to loose accuracy.

Bungie really needs to take another look at auto rifles. The shotgun change has definitely evened out the special weapon spread, but I've been on teams where EVERYONE, on both sides other then myself had Suros Regimes.

Are you on Xbox One?

We had this discussion when we were raiding tonight, and on PS4, I see a really diverse mix of weapons in the crucible. I don't actually see Suros Regime that much. It's almost as if Xbox players are using different weapons on the whole. In fact, I'll go days without hearing or being killed by a Suros Regime.

I myself find Stranger's Rifle or Red Death to be a pretty good counter. At range, it kills faster than a Suros. Red Death is a 2 shot kill if all your bursts hit the head. There's a sweet spot distance wise where this is much easier to do, so feel it out and try to keep your enemies there. Stranger's Rifle with the stability upgrades is mad easy to headshot. Once they get in close though, it's harder for you with a pulse rifle.

I know it is a two shot kill with head shots. I like to lead with the lightning arc grenade on my hunter to knock down shields and then headshot with the pistol for one shot kills essentially. However accuracy goes both ways. I had one match yesterday with my Chance hand cannon where I went 10/20,

then switched to a Shadow Price for the next match and got 16/9, and had the same main opponent in both matches.

It looks like my Chance does about 57 per shot, where as the chance is doing 39. Given the larger clip, the slight zoom and the higher rate of fire on the Shadow Price it is far easier to land head shots at range and in close. I would expect the Suros to be similar.

I have lots of experience with pulse rifles, and they did improve after the auto-rifle patch. I see the Red Death pop up fairly frequently when people are not using the shadow price or Suros. They feel just about right to me excepting the Suros. At range where the pulse rifles should be at an advantage the perks of the Suros compensate more then enough.

I know it is a two shot kill with head shots. I like to lead with the lightning arc grenade on my hunter to knock down shields and then headshot with the pistol for one shot kills essentially. However accuracy goes both ways. I had one match yesterday with my Chance hand cannon where I went 10/20,

then switched to a Shadow Price for the next match and got 16/9, and had the same main opponent in both matches.

It looks like my Chance does about 57 per shot, where as the chance is doing 39. Given the larger clip, the slight zoom and the higher rate of fire on the Shadow Price it is far easier to land head shots at range and in close. I would expect the Suros to be similar.

Sheesh, that sucks. I can imagine that not being very fun. I'd definitely recommend what Cody suggested. Also, while not as good as in Halo, if you strafe side to side while aiming, and if you keep your aim steady on the head (be that with an Auto Rifle or Pulse Rifle), you have a really good chance of taking down a Suros (even if you don't have a Suros yourself as your Auto Rifle). I'm not sure about a Hand Cannon at distance vs. a Suros, but up close you can definitely take them down. I also like your strategy of the nade + one-shot headshot combo.

It is pretty clear to me that auto rifles are still the go to weapon in the crucible. Often only one or two other players will have something other then an auto rifle primary, and those people inevitably have a Vex, other exotic or vault of glass weapon.

Well, at least I'm in the minority with those. I almost never use an AR in Crucible. I have a Legendary one but the recoil is too much for me to handle, so I just save it for Strike bosses that are too big to miss. I guess the same goes for my Super Good Advice.

Now I love hand cannons, and I do pretty well with them in PVE, but as soon as a PVP game gets going those Suros Regimes come out and people can kill me at range and close in with equal facility no matter what I'm using.

True, that does suck. But even worse--the Scattershot from Halo 4 somehow made its way to Destiny, and it has a higher rate of fire than a damn Heavy Machine Gun.

...okay, maybe I'm exaggerating with that one. But it does literally have a higher rate than most Scout Rifles.

Add on to that the Titans and their lighting and pulse grenades, a melee which actually kill things and the all purpose get out of jail free card that is Fist of Havoc, and it gets pretty ridiculous.

Well, don't forget there's also the Warlock's Nova Bomb close call/room cleanser thing. And of course the Hunter's cop-out fuck you attack that lasts forever. All of our classes have a get-out-of-jail-free card. Well, the Hunter's is a get out of jail, blow up a children's hospital and get elected president for it, but nonetheless.

Bungie really needs to take another look at auto rifles.

They did;I can't get any kills with it.

The shotgun change has definitely evened out the special weapon spread.

I cackle, hiss and spit. Every match indoors(and a good half outdoors), everybody has shotgun primary. I say primary, because it's so ridiculously and moddingly powerful that they literally don't even bother switching to their primary weapon. People have gotten all of their kills(all 25 in Rumble) with their shotgun and their shotgun alone.

Got amazing mods from a gift Shadow Price: Field Scout for a 42 round mag, reactive reload gives me more damage when I reload after a kill, and feeding frenzy lets me reload basically instantly after getting a precision kill. The feedback loop is amazing and it lets me tear up the enemy non-stop.

I beat a suros head to head almost every time.

That being said, my opponents do seem to be using a wide mix of weapons. The guys who own my face are usually doing it with supers or melee. I feel like I rarely die to actual gunfire. Though one guy in my last few games had a scout rifle and it just felt like he was hunting me all game. Very good player, that guy.

Beat me too it.

Hand cannons.

In my opinion, most of them are far greater than Suros when in the right hands.

I have few problems with Suros, aside to when its hitting me cross map when I am in sniper scope and jolting all over the place. :-)

Try a hand cannon. I do recommend Lord High Fixer from Crucible vendor. I find that one to be the best legendary.

The reason I find the Titan's fist a get out of jail free card, and not the Hunter and Warlock powers is two fold.

First the Titan has no windup. A hunter has two seconds when they activate the power where they have little to no damage reduction and cannot move. Have you ever stood still while under fire in the crucible? I'll bet you didn't last too long. As far as I can tell there is no damage reduction in Gunslinger mode, and the blade dancer one is minor. I have been taken out by a single shotgun hit in both modes. Warlock Novas are a little better in that they are still moving while the short animation goes, but they are still vulnerable and can damage themselves with their own super.

Titans can just fire off their power instantly. Are you a Titan and losing a fight at medium to close range? Super. Did you walk around a corner into multiple guys? Super, need to clear a point? Super. Blade dancers coming? Super. Another titan is in the bubble shield? Walk into it and Super.

The other issue is the damage reduction they get while doing it. I've had Titans shrug off shotgun hits to the face, close range rocket splash and machine gun hits. Often they are down to 25% life or less and then Super to avoid death.

As a hunter I get my super cancelled out all the time. Blade dancing requires you to run right up to people, Gunslinger is better, but you only have 3-4 shots and you better not miss or die while shooting. My warlock hasn't gotten cancelled yet but I have missed on occasion with the nova. Thankfully I can extend the size and duration of my powers such that it is not as big an issue.

So uniquely, Titans super pretty much works in any situation and can be used in clutch situations. Hunters must be very careful to use their power in a premeditated manner or they will waste it, and their power is easy to cancel. Warlocks can't use their power to pull them out of jams, although Solar warlocks get the back from the Dead FU power which is annoying, but they did already give up points.

Ah, I don't have trouble dispatching SUROS users. I mostly use my Fatebringer, Red Death, or Last Word in PVP and I always do very well against the Regime. Just gotta strafe 'em and try to land headshots with the regular hand cannons. The Last Word is a whole different beast.

The Last Word is a whole different beast.

This right here. Hip fire 3-shot those SUROS bums.