Go check it out

Favorite thing is this:
Added support for direct fireteam joins from the roster on the Xbox One

I'm assuming its in the works.

Do you guys think Crucible's sandbox needs to be reworked?

Do you guys think Crucible's sandbox needs to be reworked?

MacPhisto was on the money too: damn this game needs a warthog analogue.

Added support for direct fireteam joins from the roster on the Xbox One

Holy crap! I didn't think that would ever happen. Fantastic.

Also, this one:

"Armor Stat upgrade potentials added to item compare on vendor and inventory screens"

That is excellent. Previously it was difficult to tell whether a new armor piece was (potentially) better or worse than what I already had upgraded.

-Added new functionality to match pre-formed fireteams against each other
-This will slowly roll out to all playlists over time, but will start with the 3v3 playlists
-In 3v3 games, Fireteams of 2 or more players will match together more frequently
-In 6v6 games, Fireteams of 4 or more players will match together more frequently

I was literally just hoping for this in another thread.

Color me impressed and excited. Almost every "little" thing I thought could be improved is in there.

I'm assuming its in the works.

They have said so.

- No text -

Got to try this out when I get home. Was labeled as an issue so was, probably, not by design.

http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/79132554/0/0/1

This guy is mad

I've very interested to see the changes made to Blind Watch and amused by the reduction in camera shake from explosive rounds as a few people were praising the explosive effect for helping them get Crucible kills. Now those people will be sad. :p

- No text -

I've very interested to see the changes made to Blind Watch and amused by the reduction in camera shake from explosive rounds as a few people were praising the explosive effect for helping them get Crucible kills. Now those people will be sad. :p

THOSE BASTARDS. I JUST GOT THAT GUN. RAAAAAAAAAAGE.

;)

My Highlights:

Activities

Strikes
- Winter's Run: Fixed an exploit zone in the Aksor boss encounter

All Vendor fixes (I look forwards to seeing Eva Levante's new stock in the Tower -'bout time). All H.U.D Fixes.

I look forward to seeing the changes later.

This all looks so sweet to me. Especially the vendor stuff! Can't wait to try it out.

Got to try this out when I get home. Was labeled as an issue so was, probably, not by design.

I'm interested in this one as well. It always seemed like intended behavior to me, though not intended behavior that I liked. Whatever the case may be, if I have to do less pressing start to re-enter menus, that's a good thing.

it's big

Strikes
- Winter's Run: Fixed an exploit zone in the Aksor boss encounter

I hope they're talking about that hidey-hole under the sniper platform.

Events
Public Events will occur 10-15% more frequently in all public spaces

Wooohooo! I love public events.

That'd be my guess!

I'd actually put my money on the overlook at the entrance; it seems like a much easier spot to fix then under the porch.

I'd actually put my money on the overlook at the entrance; it seems like a much easier spot to fix then under the porch.

Really? I feel like adding an invisible wall or some other object to block the entrance would be much easier than modifying the cliff (I guess they could put a soft kill barrier)

I wonder if it kicks you out at destination. I hope it doesn't but I will know soon.

Events
* Public Events will occur 10-15% more frequently in all public spaces

Vendors
* Increased the number of Bounty slots in the Inventory from 5 to 10
* Shader preview functionality added to vendor and inventory screens
* Emblems on vendors can now be previewed in the inventory screen
* Armor Stat upgrade potentials added to item compare on vendor and inventory screen

HUD
* Added skull modifier descriptions to the Navigation Mode screen

... Okay, I was going to keep going, but there's too many! I'm so glad they are fixing all of these things. I guess I didn't realize that most of them were "broken" but they still bugged me. This is great! Looking forward to getting the update.

- No text -

Doing nightfalls solo almost require exploits/cheese ... it's much easier going in with 2 more (and especially now that this update scales back the difficulty scaling for 3 players). Since this update includes the team voice function, I'll gladly go PUG Nightfalls from now on using DestinyLFG or /r/fireteams

I did a test journey from The Tower to Mars patrol and it only kicked me out to gameplay as I spawned on Mars. I didn't even see the approach. :)

Every time I've played on this map, I always hope that no one takes Alpha. You get the worst spawns if you take Alpha and it becomes impossible to take Bravo and Charlie because the approaches to that whole side of the map are so difficult from the Alpha side of the map.

Also, that half of the map that Alpha is on is so underused. It's basically just a way to get to Bravo and Charlie.

Also, this one:

"Armor Stat upgrade potentials added to item compare on vendor and inventory screens"

That is excellent. Previously it was difficult to tell whether a new armor piece was (potentially) better or worse than what I already had upgraded.

Yes!

Every time I've played on this map, I always hope that no one takes Alpha. You get the worst spawns if you take Alpha and it becomes impossible to take Bravo and Charlie because the approaches to that whole side of the map are so difficult from the Alpha side of the map.

I actually like the dynamic that created though. With two teams that know the importance of zone C, you end up having some incredibly tense battles on the roof above C. Having a team that tries to cap A and then just goes to B can be very frustrating though.

That's my second best position. Given that you are safe on the spawn-point, I'd rather just stay in the menu until I have cleaned up my greens and, maybe, selected my weapon for this mission.

It would be nice if you weren't considered to have arrived properly until you exit the menu so no ammo penalty for switching whilst in it.

Apparently thorn has been nerfed by accident:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2mkto3/thorn_has_been_nerfed_with_proof/

Looks like it may be effecting other exotics (damn, not more PI nerfs!):

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2ml0gc/patch_103_hidden_changes/

Every time I've played on this map, I always hope that no one takes Alpha. You get the worst spawns if you take Alpha and it becomes impossible to take Bravo and Charlie because the approaches to that whole side of the map are so difficult from the Alpha side of the map.

I actually like the dynamic that created though. With two teams that know the importance of zone C, you end up having some incredibly tense battles on the roof above C. Having a team that tries to cap A and then just goes to B can be very frustrating though.

People not going for Charlie is what I found most frustrating. Innumerable times I was the only person going for Charlie, I'd cap it, die immediately, have Charlie get recapped and then we'd be right back to square one. I was hoping the addition of voice chat would help fix that, but since they addressed voice chat and this in the same update I'll have to see how it plays now.

- No text -

-You can now skip cutscenes

-Removed Spinmetal, Helium, Spirit Bloom, and Relic Iron from the game. Weapon 'perk' upgrades now use ascendant materials, while all other upgrades are glimmer only.

-Vanguard, Crucible, and faction rep now visible under your marks display.

-Fixed all bugs in the raid. 6th and 7th chests added.

-Thorn and Bad Juju have been buffed.

-Players now damage strike bosses properly.

-When awarded ascendant materials, players can pick which variety they would like.

-Added sweet looking hunter scarves.

-Armor transmog added.

Looks like you were right on the cheese nerf for Aksor: no more hiding beneath the platform, outlook sniping still available.

Well, they did use your idea for the Cryptarch...

they didn't fix the Raid! Bungie obviously doesn't listen to us and has been sitting on their duffs lighting cigars with 100-dollar bills from Activision.

;)

This update is cool. Lots of changes for the better. So many more than I expected in one update.

I kind of expected Destiny players to drop off this month until the expansion, but this update is another reason to dive back in.

Extra heavy ammo perks no longer stack, i.e. Armamentarium and Titan raid boots

This is a huge deal if confirmed.

It looks like a large number of these were unintentional; DeeJ has confirmed numerous issues to be errors (specifically thorn). It also looks like several of those reported on reddit simply were false claims.

http://www.destinydb.com/news/posts/76-massive-destiny-patch-tons-of-new-info

I want 3 grenades.

And falcon boots

AND A 4 BARRELL SHOTGUN GOD DAMN MUH DICK

That warlock helmet that causes nova bomb damage to feed nova bomb cooldown...HUNNNGGGHGHG

I downloaded an update and apparently it wasn't the update, and I need more space, and I have no idea how much. I'm not even going to get into whys and wherefores and what I should've expected and what I should buy (I should not have to buy more stuff or delete things to play a game I already bought and installed, especially when there was still empty space left after multiple updates), just could you please, please Bungie, tell me how much fucking space I need up front. I know for a fact it's not hard, especially since I downloaded some kind of pre-update. The initial install did this and it was monumentally dumb and frustrating, and now it's happening again, when they're supposedly fixing things. I don't care right now that I can go check, the fact I have to go check, or just repeatedly delete things and try again, to me is a big, stupid failure to communicate and accommodate.
rant complete

Is marty sneaking in at night and messing with settings?

- No text -

Xbox 360 w/ 20G HDD? I recently purchased Destiny for the 360 & w/ all my old halo maps & such on it I fear I won't have the necessary space!

Xbox 360 w/ 20G HDD?

Holy balls.

Xbox 360 w/ 20G HDD?

yes

I recently purchased Destiny for the 360 & w/ all my old halo maps & such on it I fear I won't have the necessary space!

apparently not-- or maybe, I don't know, I have no idea how big this update is

I get an invite from friends: I feel like doing other things.

I see someone on DBO post that the FoV has changed: I make a mental note to look into it.

Screw playing games, gotta count me some steradians.

apparently not-- or maybe, I don't know, I have no idea how big this update is

Thank god. I thought you guys were saying the update was 20GB...it's not 20GB, right?

But I swear it's changed.

Also, sorry. (Canadian)

2.5 GB or therabouts

Someone get vagueness an Xbone

For a second there it was like all those times Chaos popped his bladedancer next to me in the crucible. I know you're on my team but you're givin' me a heart-attack, man!

I downloaded an update and apparently it wasn't the update, and I need more space, and I have no idea how much. I'm not even going to get into whys and wherefores and what I should've expected and what I should buy (I should not have to buy more stuff or delete things to play a game I already bought and installed, especially when there was still empty space left after multiple updates), just could you please, please Bungie, tell me how much fucking space I need up front. I know for a fact it's not hard, especially since I downloaded some kind of pre-update. The initial install did this and it was monumentally dumb and frustrating, and now it's happening again, when they're supposedly fixing things. I don't care right now that I can go check, the fact I have to go check, or just repeatedly delete things and try again, to me is a big, stupid failure to communicate and accommodate.
rant complete

Having to download a big update twice can be frustrating, but making a curse laden rant like this is pretty immature. You could do a web search or ask (POLITELY!) around here and someone would help you. What you chose to do is (to me at least) pretty unacceptable. :/

In short, grow up.

Things I know you want to ask me about.

-Raid Fixes -Exotics

These are things we are working on. Today, I can comment on the updates that have been applied.

DeeJ_BNG

EDIT: ;-)

...I think he was being a little tongue in cheek about people who are only complaining about what isn't in the update. Don't let me put words in your mouth here, Kermit.

Heh. Kinda reminds me of the Skyrim update that completely broke magic resistances. And made the dragons fly backwards...

...that upgraded items you switch from the vault no longer have the green plus on them in your inventory/orbit screen. I NEED THIS TO BE TRUE.

so I overstated slightly, I had some game download placeholders, some screenshots I didn't want that much, and the Xbox Live Events thing, I deleted those, got back a little space, now let's see...
nope, can't do it, no fucking clue how much to delete, and I'm really down to stuff I want
(...and I do have a flash drive I could move stuff to, but I really don't want what supposed to be an academic- and professional-oriented purchase to be for games I don't even play all the time, and I don't want to have to plug that in along with getting a game out when I want to play a game)

Oh don't worry--I know. I was rushing around like a mad man and dropped that post without really adding any of my own tongue-in-cheek to Kermit...

that didn't sound right...

...I think he was being a little tongue in cheek about people who are only complaining about what isn't in the update. Don't let me put words in your mouth here, Kermit.

Um, yeah.

I guess I winked but forgot to nudge.

...I think he was being a little tongue in cheek about people who are only complaining about what isn't in the update. Don't let me put words in your mouth here, Kermit.

Um, yeah.

I guess I winked but forgot to nudge.

Say no more!

Tis' true :)

so many magical fixes!

Cumulative list of "hidden changes" from Reddit

Tis' true :)

:o

All is forgiven.

I downloaded an update and apparently it wasn't the update, and I need more space, and I have no idea how much. I'm not even going to get into whys and wherefores and what I should've expected and what I should buy (I should not have to buy more stuff or delete things to play a game I already bought and installed, especially when there was still empty space left after multiple updates), just could you please, please Bungie, tell me how much fucking space I need up front. I know for a fact it's not hard, especially since I downloaded some kind of pre-update. The initial install did this and it was monumentally dumb and frustrating, and now it's happening again, when they're supposedly fixing things. I don't care right now that I can go check, the fact I have to go check, or just repeatedly delete things and try again, to me is a big, stupid failure to communicate and accommodate.
rant complete

Having to download a big update twice can be frustrating, but making a curse laden rant like this is pretty immature. You could do a web search or ask (POLITELY!) around here and someone would help you. What you chose to do is (to me at least) pretty unacceptable. :/

Firstly, "unacceptable" wouldn't be just a :/
Secondly, how is that a curse-laden rant? I used one swear word one time.
Thirdly, you're completely missing the point, it should tell me in the game what the game needs. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I'd guess it was the difficulty scaling for the nightfall that affected it.

I'd guess it was the difficulty scaling for the nightfall that affected it.

I think this is a source for a lot of the confusion.

If you chance to meet a frown, send it on its way, quickly turn it upside down and smile that frown away.

Best name for boots. Also, I want the Mk 44 Stand Asides. That way I don't run out of shoulder charge too soon. Ragashingo and Iconicbanana know what I'm talking about. :P

Best name for boots. Also, I want the Mk 44 Stand Asides. That way I don't run out of shoulder charge too soon. Ragashingo and Iconicbanana know what I'm talking about. :P

You can shoulder charge right up your own @$$, bro ;)

Seriously though. Soo many beat-downs :(

(...and I do have a flash drive I could move stuff to, but I really don't want what supposed to be an academic- and professional-oriented purchase to be for games I don't even play all the time, and I don't want to have to plug that in along with getting a game out when I want to play a game)

I don't even know what that means. You know that available spaces with hard drives are estimates and can differ depending on how big your hard drive is, right?

I've seen nothing to indicate that the update is smaller than 2.44 GB on any platform.

I feel your pain, and I guess all of us have who have owned a computer for more than a few years. First you deny. Then you either delete stuff or upgrade your drive. I guess for you there's a rant-on-the-internet stage.

At this point I might have a dozen licenses for games I don't have room for on my hard drive. I can't play them all at once either.

Now I'm confused! :)

What is the confusion/source of the confusion you speak of?

Now I'm confused! :)

What is the confusion/source of the confusion you speak of?

At least in regard to that reddit thread, a lot of players were thinking virtually every gun in the game had been nerfed. I think many of those statements were coming from players who were attempting to solo the nightfall, and who were running into the damage decreases implemented for solo nightfall.

I downloaded an update and apparently it wasn't the update, and I need more space, and I have no idea how much. I'm not even going to get into whys and wherefores and what I should've expected and what I should buy (I should not have to buy more stuff or delete things to play a game I already bought and installed, especially when there was still empty space left after multiple updates), just could you please, please Bungie, tell me how much fucking space I need up front. I know for a fact it's not hard, especially since I downloaded some kind of pre-update. The initial install did this and it was monumentally dumb and frustrating, and now it's happening again, when they're supposedly fixing things. I don't care right now that I can go check, the fact I have to go check, or just repeatedly delete things and try again, to me is a big, stupid failure to communicate and accommodate.
rant complete

Having to download a big update twice can be frustrating, but making a curse laden rant like this is pretty immature. You could do a web search or ask (POLITELY!) around here and someone would help you. What you chose to do is (to me at least) pretty unacceptable. :/

Firstly, "unacceptable" wouldn't be just a :/
Secondly, how is that a curse-laden rant? I used one swear word one time.
Thirdly, you're completely missing the point, it should tell me in the game what the game needs. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I agree with your point but strongly disagree with the way you chose to make it. I don't think your immature, complaining tone was necessary or helpful. That's all. :)

Circular progress meters are now diamonds, except for weapon upgrade slots.

Best name for boots. Also, I want the Mk 44 Stand Asides. That way I don't run out of shoulder charge too soon. Ragashingo and Iconicbanana know what I'm talking about. :P

Try it again and I'm switching to sticky grenades. Never will you go positive against me! :)

Also, when I saw the upgrade name, "Be Somewhere Else," I immediately thought of the first part of a favorite quote of mine that goes (talking about a friend / loved one) "They are behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."

It fits. :)

Non mission/bounty parts of inventory shared between characters.

Or just share it all. The available bounties at the supplier could be per character but you just do them when and how and with which character you want.

But at least share materials and consumables.

If needs be, unlock at level 20 and above.

- No text -

(...and I do have a flash drive I could move stuff to, but I really don't want what supposed to be an academic- and professional-oriented purchase to be for games I don't even play all the time, and I don't want to have to plug that in along with getting a game out when I want to play a game)

This is your cheapest option, and the only one available to you if you're never going to pony up for a bigger drive (and let's be honest, this late in the 360's life cycle, with the next gen in front of it, that's a bad purchase decision anyway).

Buy a flash drive. Plug it in. Enjoy a few more gb of storage.

Lady Phoenix has a flipping 360 Memory card, two 8gb flash drives, and two 20gb 360 drives she interchanges on a regular basis (because Halo 3 edition 360) depending on what game we're playing.

It is not fun, it is unsightly, it is annoying. It is the plight you accept for owning a 20gb console ten years after launch and purchasing a game you should've known full well would have massive, huge updates (dlc and otherwise).

It sucks, but buy some 8-16gb flash drives (they're cheap, really cheap). You'll be happier in the long run.

- No text -

Something they didn't mention (or I just didn't notice it until now and I'm dumb) new bounties every 12 hours or so? Could just be because of the update, but these are completely different from the ones I got when I logged in this morning.

"Nightfall scaling has been changed. Now harder to solo, easier as a group"

This was my bread and butter . . . and it was hard as hell as is. I always needed a "practice round" before soloing it. Now it's going to be even harder? But why . . . ? Why not just make it harder all around? Why punish the people trying to pull off something cool?

-When awarded ascendant materials, players can pick which variety they would like.

According to data mined from the patch, Eris will sell Ascendant materials...

This was my bread and butter . . . and it was hard as hell as is. I always needed a "practice round" before soloing it. Now it's going to be even harder? But why . . . ? Why not just make it harder all around? Why punish the people trying to pull off something cool?

I don't think they made it harder, just longer (giggity). Nightfall is so cheeseable as is that it would've been more fun if they made you do more damage so you'd actually be tempted to go into the killbox and try to actually fight it out in the field. This just further incentivizes sniping from the crow's nest.

Also:

- Added a map to the Navigator screen so you can, you know, navigate.
- Patrol missions which send you to different map areas now provide substantially greater rewards.
- You can now choose where to land for when entering patrol mode.
- Enemy AI dramatically improved.
- Enemy AI dramatically differentiated between different enemy factions.

(...and I do have a flash drive I could move stuff to, but I really don't want what supposed to be an academic- and professional-oriented purchase to be for games I don't even play all the time, and I don't want to have to plug that in along with getting a game out when I want to play a game)

This is your cheapest option, and the only one available to you if you're never going to pony up for a bigger drive (and let's be honest, this late in the 360's life cycle, with the next gen in front of it, that's a bad purchase decision anyway).

Buy a flash drive. Plug it in. Enjoy a few more gb of storage.

Lady Phoenix has a flipping 360 Memory card, two 8gb flash drives, and two 20gb 360 drives she interchanges on a regular basis (because Halo 3 edition 360) depending on what game we're playing.

It is not fun, it is unsightly, it is annoying. It is the plight you accept for owning a 20gb console ten years after launch and purchasing a game you should've known full well would have massive, huge updates (dlc and otherwise).

How should I have known? Where did they say that before release? Where did they say anyone not paying for DLC would need to download it (and clog up their hard drive and Internet connection for stuff they can't use)?

It sucks, but buy some 8-16gb flash drives (they're cheap, really cheap). You'll be happier in the long run.

I want to say some things that Ragashingo will think are immature but I'll just reiterate: I shouldn't have to. Why not just make the game reserve all the space it'll ever need when you do the install (and tell you how much that is!) so no one has to do this dance? I moved YouTube to the internal storage thing, that hasn't placated it, so I guess I have to delete things I want-- which I won't, because I want them-- or move them to external storage and keep track of that separately. I don't care how cheap it is, by the way, and I don't care a ton that I already have something I can use-- I do care that I might need to use half the space on it or more that's supposed to be for important things (I'm not using it currently, but again that's not the point). There's payment for the game, payment for the console, payment for Xbox Live, payment for all the auxiliary things like an Internet connection and electricity and a TV, and now this. I just want to play a game on my little game box (and enjoy this update that's supposedly so great), not invest in general-purpose storage so I don't permanently lose things that are currently safe and that I had minimal reason to mess with until now.
How did we get to this? We're at point where PC games are "click a few times, download, click play", or "put in a disk, let it install, click play", or "load up a website, click play", while console games require a disk or a download, an Internet connection, space on what will inevitably become a quite limited hard drive (more so with the new consoles and with Destiny in particular), install time, the blood of nine and a half virgins, and prettified progress bars, until the mandatory update to make the game less broken when you have to repeat two thirds of it over again. Plus you have to wait for the console to start up, and for the game to start up, and for the game to check you're allowed to play and the DLC is in order and other things, before you can start playing. You can do that, or play the other game you want to play, but only once you've bought the new shiny game box that you can't afford for several months, and surprise! it has even more problems. How did we get to a point where PC gaming is (slightly) more convenient and capable than console gaming (and yet somehow less popular and just as expensive to stay current)? I mean heck, backwards compatibility, that's a no-brainer on PC, on consoles people drink the proverbial kool aid of it "holding things back", as if that means something other than "oops, we changed the processor and chipset on a fundamental level, again, and we can't include the old ones even though they're ancient and cheap now because fuck you".
Oh and the patch notes say "Improved patch installation process"-- looks the same to me-- and give no hint as to size.
I'm getting a headache thinking about all this.
Is this overly dramatic? Probably. Is it too long? That's what she said. Also probably. Do I think I'm justified in being upset? Yes. Do I think I'll still feel justified tomorrow or next week? Yes.

Who says they made solo harder? Some guy on reddit?

Sadly no. It's in the patch notes, I think. Goddamn work firewall! Let me go to Bungie.net!

- No text -

It will probably be One Energy for Two Shards.

(...and I do have a flash drive I could move stuff to, but I really don't want what supposed to be an academic- and professional-oriented purchase to be for games I don't even play all the time, and I don't want to have to plug that in along with getting a game out when I want to play a game)

This is your cheapest option, and the only one available to you if you're never going to pony up for a bigger drive (and let's be honest, this late in the 360's life cycle, with the next gen in front of it, that's a bad purchase decision anyway).

Buy a flash drive. Plug it in. Enjoy a few more gb of storage.

Lady Phoenix has a flipping 360 Memory card, two 8gb flash drives, and two 20gb 360 drives she interchanges on a regular basis (because Halo 3 edition 360) depending on what game we're playing.

It is not fun, it is unsightly, it is annoying. It is the plight you accept for owning a 20gb console ten years after launch and purchasing a game you should've known full well would have massive, huge updates (dlc and otherwise).

How should I have known? Where did they say that before release? Where did they say anyone not paying for DLC would need to download it (and clog up their hard drive and Internet connection for stuff they can't use)?

How about the dozens of times in interviews when they said that this game would change over time and they had designed it such that they could change it over time. Did you assume they would make it smaller?

It sucks, but buy some 8-16gb flash drives (they're cheap, really cheap). You'll be happier in the long run.

I want to say some things that Ragashingo will think are immature but I'll just reiterate: I shouldn't have to. Why not just make the game reserve all the space it'll ever need when you do the install (and tell you how much that is!) so no one has to do this dance?

How could they possibly know this?

...There's payment for the game, payment for the console, payment for Xbox Live, payment for all the auxiliary things like an Internet connection and electricity and a TV, and now this. I just want to play a game on my little game box (and enjoy this update that's supposedly so great), not invest in general-purpose storage so I don't permanently lose things that are currently safe and that I had minimal reason to mess with until now.

Your little game box that is seven years old (and if you bought it seven years ago, you've certainly gotten your money's worth). Your little game box is able to run a state of the art game because the developers cared enough to support your little game box. They compromised so you could play. Memory is relatively cheap and the only way keep your system viable, but it seems you're not willing to compromise on principle because you didn't hear the part about how the game would continue to grow with time?

How did we get to this? We're at point where PC games are "click a few times, download, click play", or "put in a disk, let it install, click play", or "load up a website, click play", while console games require a disk or a download, an Internet connection, space on what will inevitably become a quite limited hard drive (more so with the new consoles and with Destiny in particular), install time, the blood of nine and a half virgins, and prettified progress bars, until the mandatory update to make the game less broken when you have to repeat two thirds of it over again. Plus you have to wait for the console to start up, and for the game to start up, and for the game to check you're allowed to play and the DLC is in order and other things, before you can start playing. You can do that, or play the other game you want to play, but only once you've bought the new shiny game box that you can't afford for several months, and surprise! it has even more problems. How did we get to a point where PC gaming is (slightly) more convenient and capable than console gaming (and yet somehow less popular and just as expensive to stay current)?

PCs are still more expensive and less convenient, IMHO. [Note the spaces I'm putting between your mounds of text.]

I mean heck, backwards compatibility, that's a no-brainer on PC, on consoles people drink the proverbial kool aid of it "holding things back", as if that means something other than "oops, we changed the processor and chipset on a fundamental level, again, and we can't include the old ones even though they're ancient and cheap now because fuck you".

PC gamers have some advantages. Maybe you should consider becoming one.

Oh and the patch notes say "Improved patch installation process"-- looks the same to me-- and give no hint as to size.

They should tell you. I agree. Wasn't hard to find out, though. EDIT: Okay, not so easy. The 2.44 GB number is wrong. It's 1.07 GB. For the record, my hard drive was over capacity before Destiny came out. I cleared out 10 GB of space to give me some breathing room after I first installed the game.

I'm getting a headache thinking about all this.
Is this overly dramatic? Probably. Is it too long? That's what she said. Also probably. Do I think I'm justified in being upset? Yes. Do I think I'll still feel justified tomorrow or next week? Yes.

It's your energy you're expending. Keep in mind, though, the game is going to continue to get bigger. Now you know.

Sadly no. It's in the patch notes, I think. Goddamn work firewall! Let me go to Bungie.net!

The patch update says nothing about Nightfall, but it does say this about Strikes:

Difficulty will scale less for 3-player Fireteams, making Strikes less deadly for them.

Making it easier for three players doesn't mean they make it harder solo.

Well, it has been stated from day 0 that Destiny was a "evolving, online-only" game. In these days, it is implicit that constant server-side updates will happen regularly and almost as implicit that client-side will also. As such, you should've expected to download stuff.

On your "lack of transparency" point, I agree with your discomfort (if not anger). The number on the pre-game pop-up SHOULD be the final number, not some milestone that will be transgressed.

Now, one thing I think you should try is to delete every Destiny update you already have installed before installing a new one. Past experiences suggest to me that there is a lot of redundancy in these updates (and for your sake, I certainly hope so), so the final download would probably be less than what you currently have used.

PS: Whenever you hit the return key on posts like this, do it twice. Try to train yourself to do it. The lack of tabulation makes most of your post seem like walls, as stated previously. Hitting return twice will at least give us some sort of clearing. :)

How should I have known? Where did they say that before release? Where did they say anyone not paying for DLC would need to download it (and clog up their hard drive and Internet connection for stuff they can't use)?

How about the dozens of times in interviews when they said that this game would change over time and they had designed it such that they could change it over time. Did you assume they would make it smaller?

They never said they were going make massive, mandatory updates, and none of the updates so far indicated this would happen. The thing about "growing and changing with time" doesn't mean anything anyway, it's clearly marketing speak.

I want to say some things that Ragashingo will think are immature but I'll just reiterate: I shouldn't have to. Why not just make the game reserve all the space it'll ever need when you do the install (and tell you how much that is!) so no one has to do this dance?

How could they possibly know this?

planning? "hey guys, we can't go over this number for patches" "oh OK"
I'm not saying it has to be small or even that reasonable, I just would like it to exist.

...There's payment for the game, payment for the console, payment for Xbox Live, payment for all the auxiliary things like an Internet connection and electricity and a TV, and now this. I just want to play a game on my little game box (and enjoy this update that's supposedly so great), not invest in general-purpose storage so I don't permanently lose things that are currently safe and that I had minimal reason to mess with until now.

Your little game box that is seven years old (and if you bought it seven years ago, you've certainly gotten your money's worth). Your little game box is able to run a state of the art game because the developers cared enough to support your little game box. They compromised so you could play. Memory is relatively cheap and the only way keep your system viable, but it seems you're not willing to compromise on principle because you didn't hear the part about how the game would continue to grow with time?

I'll do it because I bought it and I'm this deep into it and I fortunately don't have to buy anything else for it at present.

How did we get to this? We're at point where PC games are "click a few times, download, click play", or "put in a disk, let it install, click play", or "load up a website, click play", while console games require a disk or a download, an Internet connection, space on what will inevitably become a quite limited hard drive (more so with the new consoles and with Destiny in particular), install time, the blood of nine and a half virgins, and prettified progress bars, until the mandatory update to make the game less broken when you have to repeat two thirds of it over again. Plus you have to wait for the console to start up, and for the game to start up, and for the game to check you're allowed to play and the DLC is in order and other things, before you can start playing. You can do that, or play the other game you want to play, but only once you've bought the new shiny game box that you can't afford for several months, and surprise! it has even more problems. How did we get to a point where PC gaming is (slightly) more convenient and capable than console gaming (and yet somehow less popular and just as expensive to stay current)?

PCs are still more expensive and less convenient, IMHO. [Note the spaces I'm putting between your mounds of text.]

It's a rant, it's immune to your English powers.

I mean heck, backwards compatibility, that's a no-brainer on PC, on consoles people drink the proverbial kool aid of it "holding things back", as if that means something other than "oops, we changed the processor and chipset on a fundamental level, again, and we can't include the old ones even though they're ancient and cheap now because fuck you".

PC gamers have some advantages. Maybe you should consider becoming one.

I'd love to. (Well, maybe not love to, I'm still working on getting some working memory, which I wouldn't be able to use with a new, more worthwhile computer, which we should probably get, but I'd be OK with a PC as the focus of my gaming.) I can't because every new thing I want to play is only on consoles.

Oh and the patch notes say "Improved patch installation process"-- looks the same to me-- and give no hint as to size.

They should tell you. I agree. Wasn't hard to find out, though.

I went and looked and I can't seem to find it. I know you said something about 2.44 GB, and I saw that, but I really doubt that's the same for every platform, just like the game itself and the initial install were all different. Plus that's almost half the size of the current installed content, that's DLC-sized, that makes it seem like they're forcing everyone to download the DLC whether they can access it or not, and they wouldn't do something that du-- no, I know this... they would probably do something that dumb, because if I'm playing this long and jumping through hoops I'll probably keep playing after this. Bungie, now you've got me using Cody Miller logic, are you happy?

I'm getting a headache thinking about all this.
Is this overly dramatic? Probably. Is it too long? That's what she said. Also probably. Do I think I'm justified in being upset? Yes. Do I think I'll still feel justified tomorrow or next week? Yes.

It's your energy you're expending. Keep in mind, though, the game is going to continue to get bigger. Now you know.

I don't know that because no one that actually has any say in it has said so. (I am getting so fucking sick of this lack of communication and people just being OK with it. [To be fair, it's not just Bungie, it's not just game developers, it's everyone, I detest this tight-lipped part of our culture that I discover more and more every year.]) Maybe I'm edging into unreasonable territory, but I have sobering news: there are people out there far less reasonable than me and even dumber than me, and they buy things too (and they vote, but I don't want to give anyone nightmares).

Well, it has been stated from day 0 that Destiny was a "evolving, online-only" game. In these days, it is implicit that constant server-side updates will happen regularly and almost as implicit that client-side will also. As such, you should've expected to download stuff.

Yeah, but not beyond-several-hundred-megabyte stuff, Halo never did that, not under Bungie or... well, crud, Halo 4 kind of did that, but I thought that was 343i being dumb.

On your "lack of transparency" point, I agree with your discomfort (if not anger). The number on the pre-game pop-up SHOULD be the final number, not some milestone that will be transgressed.

Now, one thing I think you should try is to delete every Destiny update you already have installed before installing a new one. Past experiences suggest to me that there is a lot of redundancy in these updates (and for your sake, I certainly hope so), so the final download would probably be less than what you currently have used.

You know, I thought of that, and then I thought I was being dumb. I'll try that, thanks.

PS: Whenever you hit the return key on posts like this, do it twice. Try to train yourself to do it. The lack of tabulation makes most of your post seem like walls, as stated previously. Hitting return twice will at least give us some sort of clearing. :)

I'll try to remember that.

Yeah, but not beyond-several-hundred-megabyte stuff, Halo never did that, not under Bungie or... well, crud, Halo 4 kind of did that, but I thought that was 343i being dumb.

True, I did not expect the individual updates to break the 500MB threshold, but I did expect the entire collection to go well over 5GB, though only allowing for the redundancies I suspect.

You know, I thought of that, and then I thought I was being dumb. I'll try that, thanks.

;)

Keep in mind, though, I have no idea whether it will work or not.

PS: Whenever you hit the return key on posts like this, do it twice. Try to train yourself to do it. The lack of tabulation makes most of your post seem like walls, as stated previously. Hitting return twice will at least give us some sort of clearing. :)

I'll try to remember that.

;D

How could they possibly know this?

planning? "hey guys, we can't go over this number for patches" "oh OK"
I'm not saying it has to be small or even that reasonable, I just would like it to exist.

Did you hear the part where they said they can't wait to see what we do with it, or that what the game becomes depends on us? Heck, a lot of today's update is in direct response to US. How can you plan that?
...>

Oh and the patch notes say "Improved patch installation process"-- looks the same to me-- and give no hint as to size.

They should tell you. I agree. Wasn't hard to find out, though.

I went and looked and I can't seem to find it. I know you said something about 2.44 GB, and I saw that, but I really doubt that's the same for every platform, just like the game itself and the initial install were all different.

According to a mutual friend, it's 1.07 GB for the 360. I updated my original post.

Plus that's almost half the size of the current installed content, that's DLC-sized, that makes it seem like they're forcing everyone to download the DLC whether they can access it or not, and they wouldn't do something that du-- no, I know this... they would probably do something that dumb, because if I'm playing this long and jumping through hoops I'll probably keep playing after this. Bungie, now you've got me using Cody Miller logic, are you happy?

I doubt that they are dumb, but the likely explanation is that it's not really possible to continue to have a shared open world game without everyone having the same world. Barriers to those who don't buy the DLC are easier to pull off than making different versions of the world compatible.

I'm getting a headache thinking about all this.
Is this overly dramatic? Probably. Is it too long? That's what she said. Also probably. Do I think I'm justified in being upset? Yes. Do I think I'll still feel justified tomorrow or next week? Yes.

It's your energy you're expending. Keep in mind, though, the game is going to continue to get bigger. Now you know.

I don't know that because no one that actually has any say in it has said so. (I am getting so fucking sick of this lack of communication and people just being OK with it. [To be fair, it's not just Bungie, it's not just game developers, it's everyone, I detest this tight-lipped part of our culture that I discover more and more every year.]) Maybe I'm edging into unreasonable territory, but I have sobering news: there are people out there far less reasonable than me and even dumber than me, and they buy things too (and they vote, but I don't want to give anyone nightmares).

I might actually agree with the parts of this I understand, but again, your failure to understand their intentions or their failure to supply specifics which they could not have known in advance of your purchase does not equal being tight lipped.

I went and looked and I can't seem to find it. I know you said something about 2.44 GB, and I saw that, but I really doubt that's the same for every platform, just like the game itself and the initial install were all different.

According to a mutual friend, it's 1.07 GB for the 360. I updated my original post.

Thank you, I found that out just before I read this (I deleted Reach's Anniversary maps because I have them on a disk).

Plus that's almost half the size of the current installed content, that's DLC-sized, that makes it seem like they're forcing everyone to download the DLC whether they can access it or not, and they wouldn't do something that du-- no, I know this... they would probably do something that dumb, because if I'm playing this long and jumping through hoops I'll probably keep playing after this. Bungie, now you've got me using Cody Miller logic, are you happy?

I doubt that they are dumb, but the likely explanation is that it's not really possible to continue to have a shared open world game without everyone having the same world. Barriers to those who don't buy the DLC are easier to pull off than making different versions of the world compatible.

and you know, it might not sting as much if they explained it like that

I don't know that because no one that actually has any say in it has said so. (I am getting so fucking sick of this lack of communication and people just being OK with it. [To be fair, it's not just Bungie, it's not just game developers, it's everyone, I detest this tight-lipped part of our culture that I discover more and more every year.]) Maybe I'm edging into unreasonable territory, but I have sobering news: there are people out there far less reasonable than me and even dumber than me, and they buy things too (and they vote, but I don't want to give anyone nightmares).

I might actually agree with the parts of this I understand, but again, your failure to understand their intentions or their failure to supply specifics which they could not have known in advance of your purchase does not equal being tight lipped.

Even just accurate to within an order of magnitude would be nice, if it's going to be megabytes, tens of megabytes, hundreds of megabytes, gigabytes, tens of gigabytes, whatever. I expect they knew that at release, if not by the beta or even the alpha.

Now I have to wait and see if this is actually downloading and will install properly, I don't even get a progress bar for this part. fun fun fun!

Pretty sure most of this has been covered, but I'm gonna chime in again anyway.

How should I have known? Where did they say that before release? Where did they say anyone not paying for DLC would need to download it (and clog up their hard drive and Internet connection for stuff they can't use)?

How should you have known? Because this is the way things have worked for a long while now. I don't know what all games you play, or even what gaming news you keep up with, but updates to games are frequent, especially to anything approaching MMO status. With storage as cheap as it is, and broadband widespread, there isn't any need to cherry pick what is fixed or changed. You can do it all.

Pretty sure Kermit cited where they stated their intentions prior to launch.

As for why you should have to download dlc when you aren't paying for it? Compatibility with the playerbase. You aren't downloading the dlc. You're downloading a compatibility pack. These have been available for everything from Saints Row to Borderlands. Without them, people with dlc and without dlc are segregated, your playerbase fractures. With them, everyone can still play together, and you can see, but not use, the new content (Or in the case of Borderlands, the person with the DLC can host the person without it, allowing them to play through the content even if they don't own it. I think I've only seen this with the Slaughter Pits though. Those are on disc already.). I think Halo 4 did this with dlc armor. A TU was applied so everyone could see the armor, even if they didn't purchase the pack.

Compatibility packs are good things as far as I'm concerned.

It sucks, but buy some 8-16gb flash drives (they're cheap, really cheap). You'll be happier in the long run.

Why not just make the game reserve all the space it'll ever need when you do the install (and tell you how much that is!) so no one has to do this dance?

Because then we could all see the future, and you'd have people bitching about why X game was taking up Y space when it was only using Z. This is a thing that people will do.

There's payment for the game, payment for the console, payment for Xbox Live, payment for all the auxiliary things like an Internet connection and electricity and a TV, and now this. I just want to play a game on my little game box (and enjoy this update that's supposedly so great), not invest in general-purpose storage so I don't permanently lose things that are currently safe and that I had minimal reason to mess with until now.

Welcome to gaming. It's an expensive hobby.

How did we get to this? We're at point where PC games are "click a few times, download, click play", or "put in a disk, let it install, click play", or "load up a website, click play", while console games require a disk or a download, an Internet connection, space on what will inevitably become a quite limited hard drive (more so with the new consoles and with Destiny in particular), install time, the blood of nine and a half virgins, and prettified progress bars, until the mandatory update to make the game less broken when you have to repeat two thirds of it over again.

Ironically I think you have this completely backwards. My experience with PC gaming was loads of games want an internet connection. Also updated drivers. Also newer (expensive) hardware on a regular basis. Also many compatibility issues.

Console? Buy game. Insert disc. Install disc. Update game. Play. Done.

I jumped to consoles specifically because I never wanted to troubleshoot a flipping game and my hardware ever again. I never wanted to have to worry about settings, or quality, or hardware. I just want to play games, not micromanage the behind the scenes. And again, you're at this point micromanaging the behind the scenes because you're using a version of the console that's very old. Your solution is simple, and everyone else accepted it a long time ago. The games outgrew the hard drive. You're fighting a losing battle, and no amount of sticking to your principles is going to change that. If this was a PC game, and you didn't have enough space on your ten year old computer to run it, would you still be bitching? Or would you buy more storage, or accept the fact that your computer is maybe a little too old?

Up until last gen, the console was entirely static. If you bought one on launch day, it'd serve you until the end of the line. Things are different now that we're in the age of big games, cheap storage, and ubiquitous broadband. The launch console will probably take you to the end of the line, but it will not be ideal when you get there. I can guarantee you in a few years we'll have new PS4s and XOnes with storage that make the launch units look laughable.

Why not just make the game reserve all the space it'll ever need when you do the install (and tell you how much that is!) so no one has to do this dance?

Because then we could all see the future, and you'd have people bitching about why X game was taking up Y space when it was only using Z. This is a thing that people will do.

¯\°_°/¯ I don't care.

There's payment for the game, payment for the console, payment for Xbox Live, payment for all the auxiliary things like an Internet connection and electricity and a TV, and now this. I just want to play a game on my little game box (and enjoy this update that's supposedly so great), not invest in general-purpose storage so I don't permanently lose things that are currently safe and that I had minimal reason to mess with until now.

Welcome to gaming. It's an expensive hobby.

All the more reason to not make people pay more. I can't afford two hobbies that involve any purchasing, at all, because one of them would be gaming. (Which, OK, that would be a sly way of locking me in, but I don't think they thought that far ahead.)

How did we get to this? We're at point where PC games are "click a few times, download, click play", or "put in a disk, let it install, click play", or "load up a website, click play", while console games require a disk or a download, an Internet connection, space on what will inevitably become a quite limited hard drive (more so with the new consoles and with Destiny in particular), install time, the blood of nine and a half virgins, and prettified progress bars, until the mandatory update to make the game less broken when you have to repeat two thirds of it over again.

Ironically I think you have this completely backwards. My experience with PC gaming was loads of games want an internet connection. Also updated drivers. Also newer (expensive) hardware on a regular basis. Also many compatibility issues.

That's what I'm saying, that's supposed to be where console gaming is stronger, but it's losing that.

Console? Buy game. Insert disc. Install disc. Update game. Play. Done.

You don't see the flaw there? There are one or two steps I don't want to have (install and update). I understand about making the game better and making it run better, but I don't really care to install a game or anything I don't have to unless it's over and done before I have time to really think about it or I can do anything I want in the meantime, and installing on a console fails both points (at least on the 360, I've heard it's better on the newer consoles, but again I can't afford a magic future box yet), and as for updates, part of the problem is that's what alphas and betas are for, and part of it is this "compatibility pack" thing (which I'm not convinced is what this is). That's not an update to improve the game, that's an update just to stop it from being broken, that's not what I'd call a good and wise update-- sure, the game shouldn't be broken, but to devote so much to just that, and content that only certain people will see, seems like a waste of space and time, for the player if not for the developer.

I jumped to consoles specifically because I never wanted to troubleshoot a flipping game and my hardware ever again. I never wanted to have to worry about settings, or quality, or hardware. I just want to play games, not micromanage the behind the scenes.

I've never had to micromanage. The most I've had to do was download a newer engine for Doom and copy some files over, and try to sort things out with what was probably a badly planned multi-game Atari port that's since been discontinued.

And again, you're at this point micromanaging the behind the scenes because you're using a version of the console that's very old. Your solution is simple, and everyone else accepted it a long time ago. The games outgrew the hard drive. You're fighting a losing battle, and no amount of sticking to your principles is going to change that. If this was a PC game, and you didn't have enough space on your ten year old computer to run it, would you still be bitching? Or would you buy more storage, or accept the fact that your computer is maybe a little too old?

I'd probably be complaining about inefficiency. Do you know how big a gigabyte is, really? You could fit tens of thousands of books in that, you could fit thousands of pictures, a couple thousand songs, tens or dozens or even hundreds of thousands of programs from the dawn of the PC era or earlier, but for modern games it might not even be enough for the engine.
Yeah, I know, things progress, things get bigger because they progress, things get bigger because they accumulate inefficiencies, inefficiencies get harder to remove and easier to live with, I still feel like there's this wondrous huge amount we can do now and so much of it is being squandered because we let things bloat until they're uncomfortable or on the verge of being uncomfortable and then try to cut back.

Up until last gen, the console was entirely static. If you bought one on launch day, it'd serve you until the end of the line.

exactly, that's why you'd get a console

Things are different now that we're in the age of big games, cheap storage, and ubiquitous broadband. The launch console will probably take you to the end of the line, but it will not be ideal when you get there. I can guarantee you in a few years we'll have new PS4s and XOnes with storage that make the launch units look laughable.

I won't, I'm getting one soon and I won't get another one unless it breaks.

Now, that update went for an hour, here's-- fucking; how does it have insufficient space? I don't... what. I thought it stalled maybe, but.... I deleted the old updates, I moved things around, I deleted a very large thing, I had 7.5 GB for it to chew up, it was acting fine, it transferred stuff and then it said it was downloading... this is what I'm talking about, this shouldn't happen, on a PC or especially on a console.
Edit: that was after a restart of the update; after being at the dashboard a while it said something downloaded, I restarted again and it's transferring the original large chunk of whatever again
also someone mentioned elsewhere I might need a bit more free space than the size of the update, I should have almost a gigabyte more

it occurred to me during the last post I was clogging up the thread, so I'll just say the update finally went through and leave it that until or unless I have something to say about the changes (I can say right now I'm excited about voice chat though)

I had one in my inventory, and it doesn't have the "(Random class)" text in the list of things it could be any more. Did they change the feature or just the text? There's nothing in the patch notes about it but I'm sure it's different.

I want to say some things that Ragashingo will think are immature...

I agreed with your main point! I said: "Having to download a big update twice can be frustrating..." and "I agree with your point but strongly disagree with the way you chose to make it." Bungie should tell people up front how big each update is. They should do better checking to make sure there is enough space before they start a long download. We agree on those things so don't you dare start talking as if I called your point immature.

It was your posting style and tone that I took issue with. If you weren't so busy disagreeing with everybody in sight you might have noticed that I said: "I don't think your immature, complaining tone was necessary or helpful. That's all. :)" But you didn't get that because you never listen to anybody, you never concede a point even when you are clearly wrong, and you always talk way way too much about things you clearly don't understand.

Looking though all that I note buff to brake through the Hive Knights Dark Shield & and Wizards. How... Delightuflly ominous.

Also - someday Bungie is "going to have to" allow more then one exotic armor. There is just so much AWESOME! How do I even choose! >_<

- No text -

I want to say some things that Ragashingo will think are immature...

I agreed with your main point! I said: "Having to download a big update twice can be frustrating..." and "I agree with your point but strongly disagree with the way you chose to make it." Bungie should tell people up front how big each update is. They should do better checking to make sure there is enough space before they start a long download. We agree on those things so don't you dare start talking as if I called your point immature.

It was your posting style and tone that I took issue with.

That's what I was talking about, I was going to use a complaining, angry tone and swear, and decided not to. Admittedly I ended up doing that anyway, but I had intended to have a short, to-the-point post. (side note, in real life, I never swear, because I was raised that way and I have weird anxieties about doing things I don't normally do and holding to it keeps me from possibly saying dumb things around the wrong people, but I realize that words are just words, so I've slowly let myself do it on-line)

If you weren't so busy disagreeing with everybody in sight you might have noticed that I said: "I don't think your immature, complaining tone was necessary or helpful. That's all. :)" But you didn't get that because you never listen to anybody, you never concede a point even when you are clearly wrong, and you always talk way way too much about things you clearly don't understand.

Well now that the gloves are off you bother me too, you seem like a sycophant, mainly for Bungie, and an occasional hypocrite.

I checked both the first-person view in "combat" areas and the third-person view in the Tower. Both are still ~72 degrees, like before. (The 16:9 view on the whole offers a solid-angle sweep of slightly less than .9 steradians, if you care.)

...There are usually complications in getting good FoV measurements in third-person views. I'd like to thank Bungie for putting some very accommodating geometry in the Tower Hangar area.

62/62 Dead Ghosts. Great Update, would update again.

Yeah. There's no way they would change the field of view. Especially without telling anyone!

After the update, the frame rate dropped significantly on me and several people that i was playing with. Everything in patrol and strikes was in slow motion. We ran the raid just fine, but everywhere else was extremely laggy.

Folks on reddit are saying that this is only happening now when Xbox chat is active. I can attest to that. After the raid, MasterNoodle and i ran the nightfall, and the lag was gone (we were still in a party, but only the 2 of us). After that i did some patrol by myself (chat turned off) and the frame rate was fine. So it looks like something in the update does not agree with the Xbone party chat.

Folks on reddit are saying that this is only happening now when Xbox chat is active. I can attest to that. After the raid, MasterNoodle and i ran the nightfall, and the lag was gone (we were still in a party, but only the 2 of us). After that i did some patrol by myself (chat turned off) and the frame rate was fine. So it looks like something in the update does not agree with the Xbone party chat.

I'll double-confirm that. Was running a raid last night and the framerate was incredibly slow. TBH, it actually made the Atheon fight easier (when you have time to line up and make every crit shot, the supplicants go down quick), but it was also making things take forever. We exited the XBL party and used game chat, and IMMEDIATELY the framerate went back to normal.

We regretted this action right away, as (to our now-recalibrated perceptions) Atheon appeared to go into turbo mode.

Also of note: even in super-slo-mo, Atheon's crit spot seems unreliable.

Folks on reddit are saying that this is only happening now when Xbox chat is active. I can attest to that. After the raid, MasterNoodle and i ran the nightfall, and the lag was gone (we were still in a party, but only the 2 of us). After that i did some patrol by myself (chat turned off) and the frame rate was fine. So it looks like something in the update does not agree with the Xbone party chat.

I'll double-confirm that. Was running a raid last night and the framerate was incredibly slow. TBH, it actually made the Atheon fight easier (when you have time to line up and make every crit shot, the supplicants go down quick), but it was also making things take forever. We exited the XBL party and used game chat, and IMMEDIATELY the framerate went back to normal.

I noticed @BungieHelp on Twitter yesterday become aware of this, so here's to a speedy fix. :)

I'll try and replicate some screenshots I have to see if there's any difference. Everything just seems a little bit closer, even the loading screen.

Extra heavy ammo perks no longer stack, i.e. Armamentarium and Titan raid boots

This is a huge deal if confirmed.

I saw this last night - my max rockets dropped from 8 to 7. :(

Yeah, I saw mine go limp earlier, and of course I was sitting there screaming "YOU'RE GOING THE WRONG WAY, BUNGIE! YOU'RE GOING THE WRONG WAY!!"

Glad to know it's going to be fixed in the next update...which will be in like, 4 months. I'll go hold my breath while every single Fusion Rifle can kill me in one shot.

I see more in PC and the TV setting sometimes changes (cause I watched a blu ray?)

You can tell I'm grasping at straws here :-)

Also of note: even in super-slo-mo, Atheon's crit spot seems unreliable.

I find this with ALL the Vex. I think the hitbox is significantly smaller than it appears.

Also of note: even in super-slo-mo, Atheon's crit spot seems unreliable.

I find this with ALL the Vex. I think the hitbox is significantly smaller than it appears.

To me it's easy to hit their precision damage area up close, but at a distance I always have to aim lower than the visuals suggest I should-- still aiming at the white thing, but at the notch in the bottom part of it, and at very long distances I have to aim at where it meets the metal, and even that's not 100% reliable. I have yet to get a single precision kill on a Vex with the throwing knife and I've tried a couple dozen times aiming all up and down their bodies.

Also of note: even in super-slo-mo, Atheon's crit spot seems unreliable.

I find this with ALL the Vex. I think the hitbox is significantly smaller than it appears.

To me it's easy to hit their precision damage area up close, but at a distance I always have to aim lower than the visuals suggest I should-- still aiming at the white thing, but at the notch in the bottom part of it, and at very long distances I have to aim at where it meets the metal, and even that's not 100% reliable. I have yet to get a single precision kill on a Vex with the throwing knife and I've tried a couple dozen times aiming all up and down their bodies.

Yeah, I cannot reliably get precision kills with the knife against Vex. I've gotten a handful, but they were just dumb luck. I actually turn off juggler when I'm playing the Raid or a mostly Vex mission or strike.

To me it's easy to hit their precision damage area up close, but at a distance I always have to aim lower than the visuals suggest I should-- still aiming at the white thing, but at the notch in the bottom part of it, and at very long distances I have to aim at where it meets the metal, and even that's not 100% reliable. I have yet to get a single precision kill on a Vex with the throwing knife and I've tried a couple dozen times aiming all up and down their bodies.

Yeah, I cannot reliably get precision kills with the knife against Vex. I've gotten a handful, but they were just dumb luck. I actually turn off juggler when I'm playing the Raid or a mostly Vex mission or strike.

I just had a thought, maybe you could practice on the overgrown Vex in the Black Garden-- it won't show you what gives precision damage but at least you can see where it's actually landing.
Come to think of it, suggestion for the next patch: add in stats for ability kills like there are for weapon kills.

I don't know, I just tried the Nightfall solo tonight and it seemed significantly harder than before. 4 shots or so from a Dreg could drop me, and that is as a mid level 29. The damage I dealt out seemed the same, but I spent almost the whole time hiding trying not to take any damage.