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Upgrade path not as bad, but not perfect (Destiny)
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 09:50 (3742 days ago)
edited by Cody Miller, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 09:54
https://twitter.com/DattosDestiny/status/540301546404073473
He gets to play stuff early, so maybe he knows what he's talking about.
If this is true, you are essentially trading in your fully leveled 300 attack exotic, and getting back a 300 attack exotic that can be upgraded to the new max, with no perks. So, given that none of Icebreaker's perks are really that good, in THAT case it is a 'free' upgrade :-) I can live without mulligan and the victims exploding so long as the damage is the same.
Obviously this is not as bad as having to re-level from 260, but we should keep the perks. One simple change could alleviate everybody's concerns and literally have no negative impact on the game: trading in your weapon simply adds additional upgrade nodes onto the end.
Done. Expect the patch changing this in 2 weeks.
P.S. It is unclear whether the Mythoclast can be upgraded, or if it is already at the new max. I hope the weekly update covers all this.
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Upgrade path not as bad, but not perfect
by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 09:53 (3742 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Done. Expect the patch changing this in 2 weeks.
Yeah, if I've learned anything from this little kerfuffle, it's to not do anything with my exotics for about a month.
Vaulting all exotics
by digital_ronin, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 10:13 (3742 days ago) @ iconicbanana
Yeah, if I've learned anything from this little kerfuffle, it's to not do anything with my exotics for about a month.
I'll be storing all my exotics, unless they are an expansion one that already starts at 300.
Of course, will we have to do this all over again when House of Wolves comes out? Maybe I should just stick to the new legendaries.
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Vaulting all exotics
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 10:23 (3742 days ago) @ digital_ronin
Yeah, if I've learned anything from this little kerfuffle, it's to not do anything with my exotics for about a month.
I'll be storing all my exotics, unless they are an expansion one that already starts at 300.Of course, will we have to do this all over again when House of Wolves comes out? Maybe I should just stick to the new legendaries.
I am in the process of thinking about whether I will have to completely stop playing Destiny, or else find a way to optimize my playtime so that I have to grind as little as possible.
It is sad that a game with so much fun buried in it has me come to that.
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They could have communicated this from the beginning
by unoudid , Somewhere over the rainbow, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 10:21 (3742 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Such a simple little detail would have helped keep thousands of people from getting completely pissed off for having to re-level their weapons.
Communication from Bungie has been piss poor for a while now. It seems like they forgot how to deal with the public after they "went dark" leading up to destiny.
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They could have communicated this from the beginning
by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 10:26 (3742 days ago) @ unoudid
Such a simple little detail would have helped keep thousands of people from getting completely pissed off for having to re-level their weapons.
Communication from Bungie has been piss poor for a while now. It seems like they forgot how to deal with the public after they "went dark" leading up to destiny.
They were always pretty cryptic. It feels like now the design of the game doesn't mesh with their past attitude toward communication.
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Iron Banner communication was great
by RC , UK, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 11:02 (3742 days ago) @ unoudid
Such a simple little detail would have helped keep thousands of people from getting completely pissed off for having to re-level their weapons.
Communication from Bungie has been piss poor for a while now. It seems like they forgot how to deal with the public after they "went dark" leading up to destiny.
I don't think that's true. The Iron Banner changes were communicated well. "Here's why were changing it" - "Here's what we're thinking of doing" - "What do you think?" Reaction was good. Test. Deploy month afterward to standing ovation.
I really don't like getting new info on my games from 3rd party sources (game news sites). I would much prefer that Bungie always told us directly what they're thinking of doing.
But it sometimes seems like DeeJ doesn't get enough information, far enough advance and isn't allowed to release it until some BS exclusivity deal with said 3rd party sources.
I mean, how the hell does Datto seem to know more about it (that upgraded exotics start at 300, which lessens the sting only a little) than what was presented to us directly from Bungie?
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Iron Banner communication was great
by unoudid , Somewhere over the rainbow, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 11:28 (3742 days ago) @ RC
I don't think that's true. The Iron Banner changes were communicated well. "Here's why were changing it" - "Here's what we're thinking of doing" - "What do you think?" Reaction was good. Test. Deploy month afterward to standing ovation.
The second round of Iron Banner was great. They did pass that information on in a good enough manner. However, besides offering level 30 boots and arm pieces there wasn't any major changes that affect the game system wide.
But it sometimes seems like DeeJ doesn't get enough information, far enough advance and isn't allowed to release it until some BS exclusivity deal with said 3rd party sources.
It seems like there are severe communication issues internally. How the heck can they think it's alright to upgrade exotic leveling on a friday(?) and a then completely change that again a few days later? If they would have released the new leveling details (both exotic shards and resetting current exotics) at the same time then I wouldn't be as mad about this.
As it stands now, I'm down two extra exotic weapons I sharded to upgrade an Icebreaker and a Suros to level 300. If the new leveling systems would have been communicated all at once I could have made an informed decision to hold off dismantling weapons for future upgrades.
I mean, how the hell does Datto seem to know more about it (that upgraded exotics start at 300, which lessens the sting only a little) than what was presented to us directly from Bungie?
Again, If Datto knows about this then why did Bungie not release this information at the same time as they released information about resetting your weapons?
My reaction to the reset was that I would have to downgrade my icebreaker to a lower level than it currently is. I was guessing somewhere in the 270-280's base damage which would essentially make it harder to raid with.
The lack of communication here is just baffling. They want us to invest our time and money into this game so why can't they just tell us the relevant information we need to make informed decisions.
Iron Banner #1 was a complete waste of time since they hyped everything up and then dropped the ball. The Queen's Wrath was worthless also (even though I still enjoy the shader). Now, the whole exotic leveling system and it's piecemeal information. Deej's comment about player reactions being wrong was just icing on the cake. I realize that was a poor choice of wording and he posted the correction, but it was too little, too late for ticking people off.
I would hate to be in Deej's shoes right now. Cryptic communication can be a blast (ARGs for example), but on major game changing features they need to keep people informed so they can make decisions on how to spend their extremely valuable free time.
Issues communicating
by Monochron, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 11:21 (3742 days ago) @ unoudid
At the risk of harping on this point:
Bungie can no longer communicate things properly.
I don't know if it has always been this way and we were just more perceptive, but I think it is something they are aware of and are working on getting better at. Unfortunately I haven't seen much progress so far.
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They could have communicated this from the beginning
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 12:17 (3742 days ago) @ unoudid
On the flip side, the community could have, ya know, waited for more info before we lost our shit ;)
But the new info is still pretty terrible?...
by HavokBlue, California, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 12:19 (3742 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
- No text -
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 12:23 (3742 days ago) @ HavokBlue
I guess that will depend on who you ask. Considering I had no problem with the complete reset, a reset to 300 with no perks is fine by me. There has to be some tradeoff... some cost to make the player stop and think "is this upgrade really worth it for me?". Otherwise we'd all have a full inventory of 323 weapons by christmas :)
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...
by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 12:24 (3742 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
Otherwise we'd all have a full inventory of 323 weapons by christmas :)
And do you know why that is a bad thing?
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 12:37 (3741 days ago) @ iconicbanana
Otherwise we'd all have a full inventory of 323 weapons by christmas :)
And do you know why that is a bad thing?
There is certainly an argument to be made that the expansion should just be about delivering more stuff to do; that character progression should be about adding more options, not gaining power. For better or worse, Destiny is clearly not that kind of game.
Personally, I enjoy the climb through the upper ranks. The feeling I get of increasing my character's power, range of abilities, finding newer and deadlier weapons... it's all part of the fun for me. So I want that to continue. Farming for materials was always a drag, but I don't mind a slow progression as long as I can progress by doing things I enjoy.
Now I totally understand why some people don't enjoy this kind of game. But this is what Destiny has been from the start. If I didn't enjoy this style of progression, I wouldn't be playing Destiny :)
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...
by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 12:58 (3741 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
Otherwise we'd all have a full inventory of 323 weapons by christmas :)
And do you know why that is a bad thing?
There is certainly an argument to be made that the expansion should just be about delivering more stuff to do; that character progression should be about adding more options, not gaining power. For better or worse, Destiny is clearly not that kind of game.Personally, I enjoy the climb through the upper ranks. The feeling I get of increasing my character's power, range of abilities, finding newer and deadlier weapons... it's all part of the fun for me. So I want that to continue. Farming for materials was always a drag, but I don't mind a slow progression as long as I can progress by doing things I enjoy.
Now I totally understand why some people don't enjoy this kind of game. But this is what Destiny has been from the start. If I didn't enjoy this style of progression, I wouldn't be playing Destiny :)
So if Bungie took away the grind, and made it simple to acquire high end gear...the game wouldn't be as enjoyable to you? What does that say about the game once you have that gear?
Maybe a question to extrapolate from that: if the game is fun because of the challenge of beating the toughest content to get the best gear, is it less fun once you get the best gear? Why is it less fun?
I don't really have answers, and I don't know if there are, these are just the questions I think Bungie should be asking themselves, and I don't think they care.
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...*edit
by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 13:02 (3741 days ago) @ iconicbanana
edited by iconicbanana, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 13:10
So if Bungie took away the grind, and made it simple to acquire high end gear...the game wouldn't be as enjoyable to you? What does that say about the game once you have that gear?
Additionally: If the game is still fun once you do have that best gear, and you get really good at beating the highest level content...wouldn't it make sense that the next step would be trying to beat the hardest content with worse gear? And do you ever play the hardest content with gear that isn't as good now?
Edit: This seems like me just thinking out loud. But maybe it shows what I think is fun.
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...*edit
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 14:24 (3741 days ago) @ iconicbanana
Additionally: If the game is still fun once you do have that best gear, and you get really good at beating the highest level content...wouldn't it make sense that the next step would be trying to beat the hardest content with worse gear? And do you ever play the hardest content with gear that isn't as good now?
I could see that being fun for some people. But Destiny, as it already exists, allows people to do this if they want to. You can go into the raid using nothing but green weapons if you're crazy enough :)
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...*edit
by DiscipleN2k , Edmond, OK, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 15:32 (3741 days ago) @ iconicbanana
Additionally: If the game is still fun once you do have that best gear, and you get really good at beating the highest level content...wouldn't it make sense that the next step would be trying to beat the hardest content with worse gear? And do you ever play the hardest content with gear that isn't as good now?
It's funny you should mention that. This has been pretty fun to watch.
-Disciple
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 14:17 (3741 days ago) @ iconicbanana
So if Bungie took away the grind, and made it simple to acquire high end gear...the game wouldn't be as enjoyable to you? What does that say about the game once you have that gear?
I wouldn't say that it would be less enjoyable, just different. I love Destiny's moment-to-moment combat (at higher levels... lower levels are a real drag). If you stripped out all the RPG progression mechanics and handed me Destiny: The straightforward Shooter, I think it would be very cool.
But I do really like the meta-narrative that forms in my head as I make my own personal progression through the levels. I love the feeling that comes with fighting tooth and nail to complete a mission, earning a sweet piece of gear as a reward, then coming back a week later with that weapon upgraded and cackling with glee as I use it to rip through the mission that gave me such a tough time before.
Maybe a question to extrapolate from that: if the game is fun because of the challenge of beating the toughest content to get the best gear, is it less fun once you get the best gear? Why is it less fun?
I don't find it less enjoyable. As I said, using the new powerful weapons is part of the fun for me. I think the people who play the game with more of a "completionist" approach are the ones who tend to lose interest as soon as they have the best stuff, because there is nothing new to chase.
I don't really have answers, and I don't know if there are, these are just the questions I think Bungie should be asking themselves, and I don't think they care.
I think it's safe to say they definitely are asking those questions... they just might be settling on answers that don't please everyone ;)
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...
by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 14:26 (3741 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
I wouldn't say that it would be less enjoyable, just different. I love Destiny's moment-to-moment combat (at higher levels... lower levels are a real drag). If you stripped out all the RPG progression mechanics and handed me Destiny: The straightforward Shooter, I think it would be very cool.
But I do really like the meta-narrative that forms in my head as I make my own personal progression through the levels. I love the feeling that comes with fighting tooth and nail to complete a mission, earning a sweet piece of gear as a reward, then coming back a week later with that weapon upgraded and cackling with glee as I use it to rip through the mission that gave me such a tough time before.
This feels like a good answer. It makes sense to me, I think, even if I feel the opposite way about it. I wonder if it's possible for Destiny to deliver on both; I certainly enjoy nightfalls because they force me to think differently after I've run out of vanilla challenges. I'm sure you enjoy tearing through those too.
I think what I see as artificial inflation, you see as a difficulty curve?
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 14:37 (3741 days ago) @ iconicbanana
I think what I see as artificial inflation, you see as a difficulty curve?
Maybe. I think Destiny's real problem is that there aren't enough really well designed missions in the game. Most of them are decent enough, but there is an overall lack of variety that makes many of them less enjoyable to replay.
Jason Jones has talked about his big regret with Halo; that players replayed those missions over and over and over, for nothing (other than the fun of the gameplay). He wanted Destiny to capture that same enjoyment, but to give the player rewards/stuff to do/goals to work towards while we replay the missions over and over.
Where things went a bit wrong, IMO, is that the average Destiny mission is extremely weak compared to the average Halo mission. They are not as inherently replayable.
So what happens? People ARE replaying the missions like crazy, but why? The answer is of course: Loot. As soon as this dynamic is in place, anything that appears to harm, hinder, or add frustration to the acquisition of loot is seen as a big problem to the player. It's somewhat telling that a new expansion is on the way, and all anyone is talking about is the new gear (and of course the Raid). The new missions themselves are barely a blip on the radar.
I suspect that when Jones was cooking all of this up all those years ago, he was imagining a situation where the new missions would be what we were all excited for, while the loot was just the icing on the cake.
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...
by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 14:40 (3741 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
edited by iconicbanana, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 14:47
Jason Jones has talked about his big regret with Halo; that players replayed those missions over and over and over, for nothing (other than the fun of the gameplay). He wanted Destiny to capture that same enjoyment, but to give the player rewards/stuff to do/goals to work towards while we replay the missions over and over.
Where things went a bit wrong, IMO, is that the average Destiny mission is extremely weak compared to the average Halo mission. They are not as inherently replayable.
I think everyone agrees about this. Unfortunate.
Really, if you removed the story missions, and all we had were patrol, strikes, the raid, and crucible, I don't think my gameplay would change one iota.
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 14:50 (3741 days ago) @ iconicbanana
Jason Jones has talked about his big regret with Halo; that players replayed those missions over and over and over, for nothing (other than the fun of the gameplay). He wanted Destiny to capture that same enjoyment, but to give the player rewards/stuff to do/goals to work towards while we replay the missions over and over.
Where things went a bit wrong, IMO, is that the average Destiny mission is extremely weak compared to the average Halo mission. They are not as inherently replayable.
I think everyone agrees about this. Unfortunate.Really, if you removed the story missions, and all we had were patrol, strikes, the raid, and crucible, I don't think my gameplay would change one iota.
It's a shame. I love the strikes, the raid, and a bit of crucible from time to time, but most of the story missions are quite dull. I's taken me until now to get my 2nd character up to level 19 because I just can't stand replaying the 1-20 content. It really is awful compared to the endgame content.
If the story missions were more inherently enjoyable, I think a lot of the hate thrown at Destiny would never have existed.
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...
by Leviathan , Hotel Zanzibar, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 15:36 (3741 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
It's a shame. I love the strikes, the raid, and a bit of crucible from time to time, but most of the story missions are quite dull. I's taken me until now to get my 2nd character up to level 19 because I just can't stand replaying the 1-20 content. It really is awful compared to the endgame content.
If the story missions were more inherently enjoyable, I think a lot of the hate thrown at Destiny would never have existed.
I enjoy the story missions and look forward to seeing what's the new Daily every day. I now kinda view them as one big, unique Patrol mission with cool music.
That said, most of them don't measure up anywhere close to say, a Bungie Halo campaign level, but they're still good compared to your average game.
My favorites:
Earth: The Last Array - that final encounter with the music, dropships, and array opening really gets my trigger finger going!
Moon: Sword of Crota - ...cuzz sword. Back in my day, we didn't have swords showing up in every hole on Earth!
Venus: The Assassination of the Winter Kell (can't remember what the actual name of the level is at the moment, though I think it's the Daily right now)
And pretty much every Mars mission. I love the planet and its various skyboxes, and the Cabal and their music are the best in the game. It's probably also my favorite place to Patrol.
The introduction of the Vex and the very first level of the game were pretty great as introductions for new players, but they don't hold my attention much any longer.
I hope we get more unique activities for story missions in the future, taking us new places and fighting new things in a variety of ways. I'd also kill for some long, exciting vehicle segments! Here's hoping Expansion II will give Bungie enough time to attempt that. :)
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But the new info is still pretty terrible?...
by dogcow , Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Thursday, December 04, 2014, 15:27 (3741 days ago) @ iconicbanana
Maybe a question to extrapolate from that: if the game is fun because of the challenge of beating the toughest content to get the best gear, is it less fun once you get the best gear? Why is it less fun?
So, on Tuesday night I ran the raid on normal with my level 30. I don't believe that running it on normal is really going to get me much to help me. To be completely honest, the drive to play that character lessened once I hit 30. I've been spending more time with my alts because I finally hit 30. A funny thing happened though, I had a blast playing through the raid on normal with my level 30. Why? I figure a couple reasons, 1- it was fun seeing how much tougher I am at 30, 2- The raid is just plain fun, working together with teammates to overcome a challenge. It's just good fun.
TL;DR: I still have lots of fun at level 30, but the drive/addiction for the upgrade is gone.
I like progression too...
by HavokBlue, California, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 13:03 (3741 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
But resetting your progression and making you start from scratch on a weapon YOU ALREADY MAXED just so that it is competitive with other whatever the latest wave of exotics are is like the investment system equivalent of artificial difficulty.
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I like progression too...
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 14:23 (3741 days ago) @ HavokBlue
But resetting your progression and making you start from scratch on a weapon YOU ALREADY MAXED just so that it is competitive with other whatever the latest wave of exotics are is like the investment system equivalent of artificial difficulty.
I think the reason this doesn't bother me at all is because I never expected the old exotics to be able to compete with the new ones at all. That's not typically how RPGs work. You get new gear, it replaces the old gear. I think it's a bonus that they've included any form of upgrade path at all.
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Upgrade path not as bad, but not perfect
by Xenos , Shores of Time, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 10:26 (3742 days ago) @ Cody Miller
P.S. It is unclear whether the Mythoclast can be upgraded, or if it is already at the new max. I hope the weekly update covers all this.
Yeah I'm hoping it gets an upgrade too, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't. Your reward for completing the Raid on Hard (many times) is you don't have to upgrade your Mythoclast again.
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Upgrade path not as bad, but not perfect
by CyberKN
, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 10:37 (3742 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Obviously this is not as bad as having to re-level from 260, but we should keep the perks. One simple change could alleviate everybody's concerns and literally have no negative impact on the game: trading in your weapon simply adds additional upgrade nodes onto the end.
Done. Expect the patch changing this in 2 weeks.
I really want to share your optimism, but the turnaround times on changes have not been speedy thus far.
Honestly, ALL the exotic perks should work like how Ice Breaker's Regenerating ammo is available from the get-go. Some of them are an absolute chore to use until you get those perks.
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Guns as reward, not tools
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 10:51 (3742 days ago) @ CyberKN
Honestly, ALL the exotic perks should work like how Ice Breaker's Regenerating ammo is available from the get-go. Some of them are an absolute chore to use until you get those perks.
I think the problem lies with how Bungie views the guns: as reward and not as tools.
In a game you have a bunch of challenges, and so you give the player tools to tackle those challenges. Ways to attack, ways to move, etc. So it's up to the player to take what they have and use it to overcome the challenge. Weapons are a pretty huge part of that.
So rather than hiding weapons away and treating them like a reward, they should be instead rolled in to the larger design of the game. You wouldn't play chess without access to a knight or a bishop for example; the game is built around the players having all of those pieces, and the fun comes from using them in combination.
So, Destiny could be built around the idea that as players progress their arsenal will expand in a predicable way, and thus the challenges could better integrate all the tools. If you know by the time the player hit the raid, or hits level 30 that his arsenal will be xyz, then your challenges could be set to require creative use of those guns, in interesting combinations. Combinations not just meaning between your primary, special, and heavy slot, but with the other players of your fireteam.
I feel like because the acquisition of gear is not predictable, it's holding back the content from requiring a lot of cool creativity to complete. I remember when I first heard about the orb mechanic, I thought for sure the raid was going to be really hard unless you co-ordinate with your fireteam to keep each other's supers charged. This is not in the game. The closest I've come to that is SpeedRacer and myself generating orbs for each other during the legions phase in the raid, allowing us to perpetually alternate golden guns and dispatch the harpies. Still, that is hardly required, and we can do just fine without that.
I figured exotics would be more… exotic and allow for crazy combinations that would be required simply in order to survive on the harder stuff. Basically an extension of the idea that you have crazy challenges, and the guns are the tools to overcome it. When you hide them away and make them hard to get, you lose that element.
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About exotics and levels
by Schedonnardus, Texas, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 11:36 (3742 days ago) @ Cody Miller
exotic weapon bounties should not be random.
they should be hard, but you should be able to pick up 1 at a time after X number of completed bounties, or XX level, or something.
they should take a while to do, but should be a fun and rewarding process. completing it should be a rite of passage so to speak, and not a luck of the draw. flesh out the story of the bounty in-game.
Have perks on the weapon that might not make any sense at first, then have a specific use for that weapon in the raid.
Make the gun level up with the player. If i'm a 22, then the gun is a 22. As i level up, the gun levels up. If i swap armor and drop a level, the gun drops. They already do this in essence, as you deal less damage to enemies that are at a higher level than you, the reduction would just be based on the weapon, and not on the player; essentially giving the weapon an infinite ceiling (as long as Bungie keeps increasing the light level). In relation to yourself, and all enemies at or below your level, the gun is maxed out. All guns could be balanced in relation to each other, b/c against players of the same level, the gun does the same relative damage.
Doing this would get rid of the upgrade tree for the weapons, or they could be there for show only to visually represent to the player what their light level is doing to the weapon. All leveling would be through armor, which is done through XP.
I personally think they should do away with upgrade materials entirely, but an interesting way to incorporate them would be to have them affect the final stats of the armor. Instead of having assigned stats on your armor, make the armor have a light level only and requires X number of upgrade materials. Want your armor to have more strength? Upgrade it with spinmetal. Want to have more discipline? upgrade it with spirit bloom. Want to have more intellect? Upgrade it with helium. want it to have more defense? upgrade it with iron.
Then, you could build your armor the way you want, i could go all in on intellect, or split it up. Also, use Motes of light to up the light level of any legendary armor. Got a set that you like b/c it looks badass, dump a lot of Motes into it. To force people to go after new armor later, maybe give each set an "overpower" limit. Say, armor can only be overpowered 5 levels from its original max light. that gives folks incentive to get new DLC armor. It'll extend the life of the armor part way through 1 expansion, but they will eventually have to catch up. the good thing is that someone will not have to part with an armor setup they just got, they can hang on to it for a while.
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About exotics and levels
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 13:45 (3741 days ago) @ Schedonnardus
exotic weapon bounties should not be random.
Especially since the exotics have LORE to them. Great way to roll more of the Grimoire into the game! Make them sidequests.
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About exotics and levels
by kidtsunami , Atlanta, GA, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 14:12 (3741 days ago) @ Cody Miller
exotic weapon bounties should not be random.
Especially since the exotics have LORE to them. Great way to roll more of the Grimoire into the game! Make them sidequests.
oh man, what I would give for exotic bounties to be things you find like the dead ghosts, with friends helping you find one that you heard was awesome
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About exotics and levels
by DiscipleN2k , Edmond, OK, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 15:20 (3741 days ago) @ kidtsunami
exotic weapon bounties should not be random.
Especially since the exotics have LORE to them. Great way to roll more of the Grimoire into the game! Make them sidequests.
oh man, what I would give for exotic bounties to be things you find like the dead ghosts, with friends helping you find one that you heard was awesome
This is what I expected when they said you'd have a story to tell when people asked about your awesome gear.
"I was doing the daily bounties when I happened to come across a lost ghost. It was long dead, but we were able to get information about where its guardian fell to a nearby group of Cabal. I fought my way through the Cabal camp and found the fallen guardian, but discovered that the group's commander had claimed a trophy from the defeated guardian and was promoted to lead an elite group of Cabal majors. My ghost was able to tap into Cabal radio communications and locate the commander and his new squad. After tracking him to the other side of the planet and fighting my way through wave after wave of Centurians and Collosus..es? Collosi? Whatever. There were lots of them. And I killed them all and their commander and I reclaimed the fallen guardian's weapon, the beautiful and deadly Gjallarhorn, as my own."
Instead we get, "I was playing crucible with a bunch of randoms and went 1 and 15 and this Godzilla horn thing shows up at the end. Pretty cool, right?"
It's a tiny bit disappointing.
-Disciple
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Guns as reward, not tools
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 14:44 (3741 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Doing what you suggest could lead to a very cool game, but it would certainly sacrifice some of the RPG nature of Destiny; some of the personal choice and freedom. I LIKE the fact that we go in to the raid with 6 people, all of whom are able to select the weapons that work best for them in the rolls they have decided to play. If the raid required weapons X,Y & Z, it would become a far more predictable experience, would it not? As it stands right now, every time I play the raid with a different group we need to adjust our strategy because nobody has the same tool set.
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Guns as reward, not tools
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 18:27 (3741 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
Doing what you suggest could lead to a very cool game, but it would certainly sacrifice some of the RPG nature of Destiny; some of the personal choice and freedom. I LIKE the fact that we go in to the raid with 6 people, all of whom are able to select the weapons that work best for them in the rolls they have decided to play. If the raid required weapons X,Y & Z, it would become a far more predictable experience, would it not? As it stands right now, every time I play the raid with a different group we need to adjust our strategy because nobody has the same tool set.
I'm not saying you'd NEED specific weapons, just that you'd need to use all the tools available in original combinations.
I know I talk about Deus Ex a lot, but look at the end. Area 51. It's impossible to do unless you build up your character, however you can do it in a bunch of different ways depending on your build. Still, you are required to creatively use your augmentation and skill combos because the challenges are intense, and it's an impenetrable military fortress.
THIS.
by HavokBlue, California, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 12:06 (3742 days ago) @ CyberKN
The fact that you have to grind a buttload of experience before your exotic weapon becomes exotic in any useful fashion really bothers me, especially when so many of them are absolutely wretched without their exotic perks.
Nothing kills the quick little rush of getting a new exotic weapon like realizing 'oh hey wow I guess this is really just a subpar fusion rifle I have to suffer with for a long time before it becomes useful... I sure hope they don't break it in a patch on accident!'
This is one of several reasons that I don't find Exotic weapons to be such a big deal overall. There are a select few that truly earn their exotic slot (Icebreaker, Gjallarhorn, perhaps Invective and Suros Regime for Crucible). Other than that, I prefer to focus on a good selection of maxed out legendary weapons, since I can mix and match them in whatever combination I want.
I do this too..
by ckamp, Friday, December 05, 2014, 08:43 (3741 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
This is one of several reasons that I don't find Exotic weapons to be such a big deal overall. There are a select few that truly earn their exotic slot (Icebreaker, Gjallarhorn, perhaps Invective and Suros Regime for Crucible). Other than that, I prefer to focus on a good selection of maxed out legendary weapons, since I can mix and match them in whatever combination I want.
I also may be odd, but I almost never use my exotics while I'm leveling them. I just switch to them when I turn in bounties or just before the end of a mission for an XP drop or if I'm on patrol. I've never really felt that I've been grinding them as a result. They just come out fully leveled after about a week or so. I'm fine with churning out one exotic a week. Frankly any more would be overwhelming.
Obviously this doesn't address the feeling of starting over on something you've already invested into, but I guess I just never felt like I was grinding for exotics in the first place so the sting is a bit less.
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Upgrade path not as bad, but not perfect
by stabbim , Des Moines, IA, USA, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 13:14 (3741 days ago) @ CyberKN
Some of them are an absolute chore to use until you get those perks.
I'm looking at you, Pocket Infinity.
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If they ever fix the damn thing
by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 13:16 (3741 days ago) @ stabbim
Some of them are an absolute chore to use until you get those perks.
I'm looking at you, Pocket Infinity.
Ugh, don't make me thing about it.
What happened to "your weapons will grow with you"?
by HavokBlue, California, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 12:04 (3742 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Prior to release they talked about how the upgrade paths should feel like your weapons are growing stronger with you, but I just feel like I'm gimping myself every time I switch to a new weapon or armor piece and have to slog through a long grind to max it out and make it useful.
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Upgrade path not as bad, but not perfect
by stabbim , Des Moines, IA, USA, Thursday, December 04, 2014, 13:12 (3741 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Ya know, I was wondering if this would be the case, but had no real information one way or the other. Good to know. Like you said, it's not great, but certainly better than starting below 300.
Weapon sub-classes with new color of damage
by scarab , Thursday, December 04, 2014, 14:08 (3741 days ago) @ Cody Miller
I like the idea of just adding nodes but that wouldn't gain Bungie enough of your play time in the coming months.
so how about...
We know some of the new weapons do two colors of damage...
Our character subclass have "entirely" separate tech trees with separate progressions...
So...
For our current exotics add a new color of damage with its own, different, tech tree that is empty and needs to be maxed out.
You keep your old tech tree, as maxed out as it was before the DLC. You just gain a new subclass for your weapon.
Bungie gets the benefit of:
- not having to make new models
- not having to come up with new stories for each new exotic
- players expend just as much playtime on the new sub-class as they did on the old
- this mechanism is already familiar to players from character sub-classes
Players get the following benefits:
- they keep all their work investment/benefits spent on the previous sub-class
- they have a fully powerful weapon to use in hard stuff
- they can upgrade the new sub-class doing easy stuff (patrols)
It's a MAJOR win for Bungie and not so bad for players. Some may even think that it's a bargain.
-PS I feel dirty already for suggesting a way to double your playtime investment. I am a bad person.