She recognized his musical cues, knows his visiting habits and his location. That is pretty good for someone who's been hiding out on the moon for years, cut off from all contact with the city. Especially since the player is the first to really discover Rasputin is still active and connect him to all those defense constructs via the array.

So how do you think Eris knows all this stuff? And why doesn't Rasputin do something after you save him from the Hive other then play classical music? Would it be too much to ask for the 1812 overture?

I kind of felt like the only reason Rasputin is even mentioned is because they had to find a reason to use the RAS-2 bunker geometry. His brief little involvement with the Dark Below story feels completely disconnected from his brief involvement in the rest of the game (broadcasting himself to other planets, etc etc).

She recognized his musical cues, knows his visiting habits and his location. That is pretty good for someone who's been hiding out on the moon for years, cut off from all contact with the city. Especially since the player is the first to really discover Rasputin is still active and connect him to all those defense constructs via the array.

So how do you think Eris knows all this stuff? And why doesn't Rasputin do something after you save him from the Hive other then play classical music? Would it be too much to ask for the 1812 overture?

Presumably Rasputin is much older than Eris, and it possible that Rasputin has become inaccessible to humanity on Earth only after Eris' ill-fated trip to the moon. That's how I read the situation, anyway.

I also think it's not really possible to link "the player" to first-time events the way you mention, since all players are together in the Tower and do things at different rates. It looks like you would be able to do that if it was purely a single player experience, but certain elements have been watered down to avoid continuity problems while still trying to make the player feel... well, you know, interesting. Not entirely interesting, but...

or that any warminds survived.

It's just bad writing. The easiest explanation is that the writers just wrote words and didn't think through the meanings and consequences of those words. They needed to let us know what R was feeling and Eris was the only talking character available to them.

This is the cue for someone here to jump in with a story patch.

Maybe Bungie has a secret plan and it turns out that Eris did more than just have a bad experience with Crota. Maybe she will be further fleshed out and we will find out that she was up to all kinds of secret shenanigans that we don't yet know about. I blame ONI.

But I doubt this is Bungie's plan given the current state of Bungie story telling. I suspect that she is a one function vendor and giver of exposition. She will probab

Waitaminute... what will happen to Eris when the next DLC drops? Does she stay hitched to that railing? If she is replaced then how does anyone buy her obsolete weapons? Would anybody care to?

I imagine that her old stuff could be levelled up but would a 2 colour weapon be wanted if we could get 3 colour auto-switching weapons elsewhere?

Do you think that Bungie would take that final step? to make a rainbow laser? Doesn't that undermine the entire colour based system?

They did introduce duel wielding in h2 so I wouldn't assume that they would hesitate to break the shield colour mechanic. Hey Bungie: just say that plasma breaks all shields and give us a pistol that...

She recognized his musical cues, knows his visiting habits and his location. That is pretty good for someone who's been hiding out on the moon for years, cut off from all contact with the city. Especially since the player is the first to really discover Rasputin is still active and connect him to all those defense constructs via the array.

So how do you think Eris knows all this stuff? And why doesn't Rasputin do something after you save him from the Hive other then play classical music? Would it be too much to ask for the 1812 overture?

I don't think saying "because the writing is a bad" is a creative answer, unlike some of the others.

I was excited to see Rasputin get some spotlight. We've been helping him with all his war satellites via public events all this time and the Grimoire alludes to him protecting us Guardians more than we realize. It could be our most powerful offense/defense against a rising Darkness. If he only communicates in Russian radio and music, that's fine by me as it's some of the most unique audio in the game!

As to why Eris understands that language seems to be the same as why she knows Crota's plans at all. She has been scarred, infected, altered. She used the Darkness to survive the Hellmouth. That's why she's so mentally unbalanced - I believe she's part Hive now.

And either by their sorcery or a Flood-like telekinetic link, their plans can be communicated and intercepted.

So if I saw that the Hive were attempting to break into the vault and its front door opened to sad, moaning music, I'd infer the same things Eris spoke of. In addition, once we unleashed Rasputin in the launch game, the Cryptarchs may well have done their research, and Eris has the Tower's resources at her disposal.

Hopefully Rahool doesn't just stand around all day laughing to himself...

but it is totally consistent with the Destiny universe where people can feel what the Hive is up to.

It is, perhaps, the ultimate cop out. Can't think of any reason character X should know Y? Sorcery.

the fact that we were supposed to have destroyed the Sword of Crota?...

The sword Crota actually wields is pretty different to the one we destroyed. Huge, and glowing blue.

Hopefully Rahool doesn't just stand around all day laughing to himself... <

Of course not, he has to do something with all those engrams he scams of guardians, namely swim in a vault of purples like a blue Scrooge McDuck.

I imagine that her old stuff could be levelled up but would a 2 colour weapon be wanted if we could get 3 colour auto-switching weapons elsewhere?

Do you think that Bungie would take that final step? to make a rainbow laser? Doesn't that undermine the entire colour based system?

I pondered this very thing when I heard about the new fusion rifle. I wondered if it was a toggle (like it currently is) or if it did 1/2 damage of each type (thus resulting in lower overall arc damage, but still giving you a (smaller) buff against arc shields, (ditto for solar).

I think that something like that may work out fine.

I imagine that her old stuff could be levelled up but would a 2 colour weapon be wanted if we could get 3 colour auto-switching weapons elsewhere?

Do you think that Bungie would take that final step? to make a rainbow laser? Doesn't that undermine the entire colour based system?

I pondered this very thing when I heard about the new fusion rifle. I wondered if it was a toggle (like it currently is) or if it did 1/2 damage of each type (thus resulting in lower overall arc damage, but still giving you a (smaller) buff against arc shields, (ditto for solar).

I think that something like that may work out fine.

Ooooo, give it 9 projectiles and make each element have three of them! And call it "The Rainbro".

but it is totally consistent with the Destiny universe where people can feel what the Hive is up to.

It is, perhaps, the ultimate cop out. Can't think of any reason character X should know Y? Sorcery.

Bah. Would you rather have some sci-fi technobabble instead? It makes as much sense as Flood communications. Same thing, different styles. The fantasy-bashing I've seen on this forum is just closed-minded and unimaginative.

Waitaminute... what will happen to Eris when the next DLC drops? Does she stay hitched to that railing? If she is replaced then how does anyone buy her obsolete weapons? Would anybody care to?

It is an interesting question. I noticed a few days ago that Eris is listed as an event vendor in the companion app which implies that she won't be permanent? If so, it does make me uneasy.

Complaints about cop outs are complaints against lazy writing. Destiny has enough story issues without adding lazy writing to the mix.

I don't think that sorcery is worse than ONI because sorcery is fantasy. It is worse because it can excuse everything. At first thought having a cop out that works universally sounds great for the writer. "Hey, I don't have to bother with: "does it make sense?" or, "how does this character know that?".

The problem with such an easy cop out is that working out stuff and making it make sense is part of a good writer's toolkit. Those muscles will atrophy. It also removes a chance to impress your audience. When you realize that the writers have taken the time to work their stuff through, to make it make sense... you think, "This writer is rather good. I enjoy this story more."

The danger with sorcery is that stuff doesn't have to make sense. I despise sorcery and I despise technobable (I've spewed venom on ST's technobable on HBO and, probably, here as well.) I see technobable and most TV/Film sf as fantasy wearing science lipstick. And I really hate it :-)

And, for the record, I didn't like ONI as an excuse for Halo writing shortcomings. I dislike the ONI excuse. It is bad. It's just not as bad, as corrosive as sorcery.

And ONI isn't technobable.

A final question: how does Eris know what's going on and how is she talking to us? Does her third eye see all? Has she a radio? Did she swap her soul with Dinklage? Is he minding the store whilst she is on away missions with you?

-PS was that one question or was it world class darts?

- No text -

classic :-)

If you had to throw a knife at your wife in a circus, you'd want to throw it like that.

Complaints about cop outs are complaints against lazy writing. Destiny has enough story issues without adding lazy writing to the mix.

I don't think that sorcery is worse than ONI because sorcery is fantasy. It is worse because it can excuse everything. At first thought having a cop out that works universally sounds great for the writer. "Hey, I don't have to bother with: "does it make sense?" or, "how does this character know that?".

The problem with such an easy cop out is that working out stuff and making it make sense is part of a good writer's toolkit. Those muscles will atrophy. It also removes a chance to impress your audience. When you realize that the writers have taken the time to work their stuff through, to make it make sense... you think, "This writer is rather good. I enjoy this story more."

The danger with sorcery is that stuff doesn't have to make sense. I despise sorcery and I despise technobable (I've spewed venom on ST's technobable on HBO and, probably, here as well.) I see technobable and most TV/Film sf as fantasy wearing science lipstick. And I really hate it :-)

And, for the record, I didn't like ONI as an excuse for Halo writing shortcomings. I dislike the ONI excuse. It is bad. It's just not as bad, as corrosive as sorcery.

And ONI isn't technobable.

A final question: how does Eris know what's going on and how is she talking to us? Does her third eye see all? Has she a radio? Did she swap her soul with Dinklage? Is he minding the store whilst she is on away missions with you?

EDIT: The Ghost can relay video and radio signals. We've had the Vanguard and others talking to us and reacting to what we're doing this whole time.

-PS was that one question or was it world class darts?

Sorcery/magic/technobabble can be good, and even insightful, when used well. It's an admittance of mystery, and mystery is a part of our reality, whether you look at it scientifically, spiritually, etc. There ARE unknowns. Having a work explain every little detail to me is a waste of time and often just sounds like the author's trying to convince me they know what they're doing instead of letting me trust them on that.

When I played the three Dark Below missions, none of these unknowns bothered me - I inferred or speculated their answers rather quickly. Also, Bungie has always told stories through their visuals without blatant announcements. Eris has three eyes. A third eye is a long-endearing symbol of enhanced perception, foresight, precognition. Put that together with the Hive, and well, the clues seemed to fit pretty easily together in my head.

I think if we had a mind-blowing story mode, these questions wouldn't bother folks, instead they'd become sources of speculation.

Destiny's story problems are not in a lack of answers and details - it's essentially all in the lack of present, changing, and interacting characters. Simply having multiple people talk on the radio to each other, not to mention an increase in cinematics like meeting the EXO stranger or the Queen of the Reef, would weave everything together more smoothly regardless of whether we're actually getting more plot or not.

When you have someone telling you something, that's okay. But having two people ask questions of each other? It's far more exciting and it shapes the world more, as well as making you feel a part of the mystery instead being left out of it. When the Arbiter and Johnson confronted Tartarus, we didn't learn anything we hadn't before - but it was exciting because characters were interacting and changing the world.

So I don't believe Destiny's universe is poor or in need of more answers. I even think most of the cinematics were pretty intriguing. There's simply not enough of them (or another method of storytelling) to give us engaging characters that breath more life and a flowing narrative into what's there. In short: we need cool characters doing things.

Since I am still hopeful of an improving narrative and still find the universe fun, I'd rather speculate on what we do have instead of just throwing it out.

So I don't believe Destiny's universe is poor or in need of more answers. I even think most of the cinematics were pretty intriguing. There's simply not enough of them (or another method of storytelling) to give us engaging characters that breath more life and a flowing narrative into what's there. In short: we need cool characters doing things.

Since I am still hopeful of an improving narrative and still find the universe fun, I'd rather speculate on what we do have instead of just throwing it out.

The issue may come down to rhetorical device for Bungie. They used narrative to exceeding effect in Halo; so much so that, when approaching Destiny, they may have assumed that storytelling (their bread-and-butter) would be almost a non-issue.

The problem that they ultimately ran into is, in a persistent world such as Destiny's, narrative isn't necessarily applicable. There is a lot of exposition in Destiny: the game feels, for all intents and purposes, completely timeless. Change doesn't occur. The entire experience is static; you end at the same place you begin.

What we end up with is a lot of characters telling us about things and not events. And when we do get events, they have no effect; they become items in a list instead of changes in a sequence. Bungie may have realized half way through their development that cause and effect had no place in Destiny, and abandoned it. Why this change happened can be mooted but ultimately, I think it's irrelevant.

What we have is something different from most stories you can experience linearly: it's a half-baked attempt at the epic that can't deliver because the design of the universe itself hamstrings its inability to evolve. It's a picture of a universe: insanely detailed, and unchanging. A postcard of an epic. A good launching point, but not something you expect to walk away changed from. It would require a significant design change for narrative to play a part, and it remains to be seen if Bungie plans to abandon a persistent world in order to give us a dynamic story. That may not be their goal, and if not, we might have to create our own narratives inside the exposition they've heaped on us.

Well-thought.

I still think it's a decent starting point. Nothing got 'broke'. But going forward, I'd say (if it is an intentional factor for Bungie) to veto the notion that the persistent game world needs to make sense with the story missions. Let the story do anything it wants. Keep providing as much flavor they can can with the rest of the game's components like they're doing now, just accept that every instance of the story might not always fit in perfectly.

I mean we already do the same missions over again, that doesn't make sense with the 'postcard' - no one thinks we've actually killed the Nexus forty times do they? Ha! Every Guardian was reborn in the same spot in Old Russia, too. Weird coincidence, huh! :)

So let's have every Guardian watch the same characters die, or the same city burn, or to defeat the ultimate villain. And when we go back to the Tower after finishing the campaign, we can still feel somewhat immersed, even if it feels a little separate form our main narrative.

I mean we already do the same missions over again, that doesn't make sense with the 'postcard' - no one thinks we've actually killed the Nexus forty times do they? Ha! Every Guardian was reborn in the same spot in Old Russia, too. Weird coincidence, huh! :)

Actually this is how I ingest the story! I sort of put together my own little meta narrative where we get stuck in some Vex time loop hogwash and continually play the same situation out forever as the Traveler and Vex simulate a battle indefinitely to see who wins.

The final boss ends up being RNG.

- No text -

In short: we need cool characters doing things.

An attack on the Tower, Lord Shaxx smashing through a window to lay down the beat-down on some Fallen, going toe to toe with an Ultra Captain. Mmmmmm.