A new year, same ol' Xur. What's on the menu this week?

Titan - Mk. 44 Stand Asides
Hunter - Don't Touch Me
Warlock - Starfire Protocol

Weapon - Dragon's Breath
Engram - Gauntlets
Shards for 7 SC

Curios:

• Auto Rifle Telemetries
  
• Hand Cannon Telemetries
  
• Fusion Rifle Telemetries
  
• Plasma Drive Sparrow Upgrade
  
• Emerald Coil Sparrow Upgrade
  
• Urn of Sacrifice

Exotic Upgrades:

• Knucklehead Radar
  
• Aclyophage Symbiote
  
• Crest of Alpha Lupi (Titan)
  
• The Armamentarium
  
• Apotheosis Veil
  
• Heart of Praxic Fire
  
• The Last Word
  
• Universal Remote
  
• Pocket Infinity
  
• Patience & Time
  
• Thunderlord
  
• Ballerhorn

Essentially a big middle finger to all those who didn't buy TDB. Love it.

What happens for those who didn't buy it? Can they see the inventory but not buy it?

Yep. If you have the old pieces that he is upgrading, you can get those, and you can get an engram, but the other stuff he is selling will be unavailable.

Wait, I'm out of town!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Yep. If you have the old pieces that he is upgrading, you can get those, and you can get an engram, but the other stuff he is selling will be unavailable.

I thought they said that the armor and weapons that came in TDB would be available for everybody and it's just the missions/etc that require the expansion... Are you positive that non-TDB owners can't purchase Dragons Breath and the armor?

Essentially a big middle finger to all those who didn't buy TDB. Love it.

Having this week's Xur visit be DLC focused makes perfect sense, as this week's nightfall and weekly are tied to the DLC.

You do the weekly so you can earn strange coins, which you then (ideally) spend later in the week with Xur.

If you can't do the weekly, you can't earn coins, so you couldn't buy anything anyway. (Got a bunch of coins saved up? Well you'll be saving them for one more week. Oh no!)

If Bungie really wanted to give a big "fuck you" to non-dlc owners, it would be like this every week.

But it's not.

It rotates.

It makes sense.

They have to promote their DLC\content, otherwise the people that did buy it would be pissed that it has no impact on the game.

I din't have the DLC until Christmas break, and I wasn't mad the weeks I couldn't do the weekly stuff. Just like when Halo launched new maps- there was a hopper for the DLC and non-dlc stuff. The most popular playlists require all the content. It's not a brand new concept.

In the future it's probably going to look like this every month:

Week 1: Dark below Weekly\Crucible\xur
Week 2: Vanilla content
Week 3: House of Wolves Weekly\Crucible\xur
Week 4: Vanilla content

So non-DLC owners should get used to it or buy the expansion- this should be expected for a "living" game.

But it's hardly Bungie giving the finger to it's players.

That's a stupid™ interpretation.

Are you positive that non-TDB owners can't purchase Dragons Breath and the armor?

When Xur would come I could upgrade any of the pre-dlc exotics, but could not purchase any of the new exotics. There was a check box for "Dark Below" required.

The new exotics are part of the DLC (including the raid armor).

Without the DLC, I was allowed to purchase anything that the Crucible vendors or vanguard was selling. (I could even do most of the eris bounties, the generic kill hive ones)

I was able to get to level 31 via non DLC content.

When I activated my DLC, I noticed immediately that my reward packages were giving me "new" stuff.

Bunige did say that non DLC owners would be able to continue to level- the caveat to that being there are MORE options to level if you have the DLC.

Yeah, so I just went digging to try to find where I remembered them saying that gear would be available to everyone... Specifically, the Dec. 3rd blog update in advance of TDB's release -- makes it clear that the legendary gear is for everyone, but it doesn't say the same for the exotics.

So non-DLC owners should get used to it or buy the expansion- this should be expected for a "living" game.

But it's hardly Bungie giving the finger to it's players.

That's a stupid™ interpretation.

This is less a "Bungie giving the finger" discussion and more of a "Industry giving the finger" issue. Then again, I keep buying DLC for the games I enjoy, so I guess I'm as guilty as the industry. This whole thing does feel kind of like, instead of buying a bunch of content, we're just buying a big micro-transaction pack for new gear, except with most micro-transactions, you actually get the gear. In Destiny, you get the chance to RNG the gear.

I'm going to start calling Destiny's DLCs Macro-transactions. The Dark Below was a macro-transaction.

TL;DR

Ideally:

• People with DLC should enjoy it, but realize they are on a hamster wheel.
  
• People without the DLC shouldn't complain about having to "wait their turn" when it comes time to let the other content be king for a week.
  
• Both camps get off the hamster wheel once they have either completed all that they can complete with what they have, or when they aren't having fun anymore

DLC isn't like it used to be, and the way we used to know it wouldn't apply to destiny anyway**.

This is how most MMORPG's work.

Destiny is a junior MMORPG.

It is the nature of the beast, a game that is constantly evolving and always online.

Everyone should have been able to see this coming a mile away, and if they couldn't, ok, but they should know enough by now to make an informed choice about whether or not to support this style of game going forward.

Destiny isn't shy about what is is, at this point.

Games like these are designed to milk cash and time out of the player for as long as possible.

The difference between free to play games like Candy Crush and Destiny are the device it's played on, and that's about it.

You can continue to keep playing Destiny without the DLC, and you'll be able to progress along with the other players, except at a slower pace (due to arbitrary and artificial progression systems).

Bungie has to support the core game and allow people who don't\can't play the DLC to continue to play, but that doesn't mean they can't do everything in their power to tempt or encourage those people to get the DLC.

Strikes are a good example.

Without the DLC, you can still play strikes, but you can't play them on the hardest level, and thus you won't get guaranteed rewards anymore upon completion- the best rewards are tied to the highest levels, and the highest levels are tied to the new content.

So, you can still get engrams though general play and random drops, but you won't get one just for making it to the end anymore.

You can still bring your old guns with you and keep the relevant as well, not just exotics (I know this because I just got a new 'The Crash' from a random drop that has a new cap and the same perks as my old one, which is nice). However, you must accept that the new shiny hotness will not be in your possession because it is tied to that DLC.

A lot of the stuff that Cody says about the game, while repetitive and droning, isn't wrong. But this is new territory for Bungie, and for a lot of non-pc gamers. Bungie has a history of being pretty cool to their player base. I applaud them for trying to make everyone...comfortable, though that is impossible.

**Halo DLC was always additional MP maps- no new campaign stuff. If you didn't get the DCL, you limited yourself to the social playlists, or the most basic team slayer stuff. The "premium" lists needed the new maps. People bitched, then got over it.

**Minerva's Den DLC was a stand alone campaign that had no impact on the other parts of the game. It was isolated because Bioshock is, at it's core, a single player experience.Same with Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil.

Destiny is a massive multi-player game (that ironically isn't massive enough in most ways regarding player count) and as such has to keep people interested by adding new sticks and new carrots.

I totally, 100%, understand and empathize why that might make people who are unfamiliar with the kind of game Destiny is salty about the experience. But them being crybabies about the DLC and Weekly\Xur rotation, in addition to DLC holders lording it over them like they are some kind of peasant isn't productive.

We're all on the same treadmill people, it's just the DLC treadmill is by a window now, while the basic treadmill is in a hallway looking in

TL;DR

Ideally:

• People with DLC should enjoy it, but realize they are on a hamster wheel.
  
• People without the DLC shouldn't complain about having to "wait their turn" when it comes time to let the other content be king for a week.
  
• Both camps get off the hamster wheel once they have either completed all that they can complete with what they have, or when they aren't having fun anymore

I think I was just trying to say that the industry as a whole has decided to go in the direction of micro-transaction content, for better or worse, and that people that don't enjoy the stratification it causes should aim their complaints at themselves as much as at the industry. Save your breath and vote with your wallet, because that's the only vote publishers care about.

TL;DR

Ideally:

• People with DLC should enjoy it, but realize they are on a hamster wheel.
  
• People without the DLC shouldn't complain about having to "wait their turn" when it comes time to let the other content be king for a week.
  
• Both camps get off the hamster wheel once they have either completed all that they can complete with what they have, or when they aren't having fun anymore

I think I was just trying to say that the industry as a whole has decided to go in the direction of micro-transaction content, for better or worse, and that people that don't enjoy the stratification it causes should aim their complaints at themselves as much as at the industry. Save your breath and vote with your wallet, because that's the only vote publishers care about.

Not sure about "as a whole" because I didn't have any of that stuff in Wolfenstine: The New Order and that was a fantastic single player experience. The last few games I played on 360 didn't revolve around them either...

It remains to be seen if any of the soon to be released games will rely on them, but it seems limited currently.

Microtransations are fine as long as they aren't designed in a way to become the ideal way to play\complete a game.

I hesitate to call Desitny's DLC a micro-transation. Now, trading marks for materials, that is a microtransaction, but of a different sort... if it's in game like that, and doesn't cost real monies, is it any different? (Rhetorical question)

I feel that the pre-order culture that we've created is what needs to die. The hypetrain has become a problem for all. Paying to preview an alpha or beta of a game is also a problem. Essentially, giving people money for things not yet delivered needs to go away.

Microtransactions seem like they prey on people with more money than sense, and if that is the case, well, they would have wasted it somewhere else anyway :P

Microtransations are fine as long as they aren't designed in a way to become the ideal way to play\complete a game.

I hesitate to call Desitny's DLC a micro-transation. Now, trading marks for materials, that is a microtransaction, but of a different sort... if it's in game like that, and doesn't cost real monies, is it any different? (Rhetorical question)

I think I'm using microtransaction here as more broadly indicative of the way developers have shunted pay-walls into gameplay. It started with MMO's back in the late-90's/early-2000's and has been creeping into everything at this point. Pre-order bonuses are another example.

I'm not entirely sure how you discourage a developer/publisher from implementing them; I usually don't buy games that incorporate them. Don't pre-order only works if everybody does it, and I honestly can't see that happening without a massive amount of grassroots organizing, so it may be we're stuck with it. Blame capitalism, I guess; whatever the buyers want, succeeds, and so far it looks like the buyers want per-order content.

I think those that complain are those that don't want the pre-orders and microtransactions and pay-walls, and they probably feel pretty powerless to do anything about it at this point.

Microtransations are fine as long as they aren't designed in a way to become the ideal way to play\complete a game.

I hesitate to call Desitny's DLC a micro-transation. Now, trading marks for materials, that is a microtransaction, but of a different sort... if it's in game like that, and doesn't cost real monies, is it any different? (Rhetorical question)

I think I'm using microtransaction here as more broadly indicative of the way developers have shunted pay-walls into gameplay. It started with MMO's back in the late-90's/early-2000's and has been creeping into everything at this point. Pre-order bonuses are another example.

I'm not entirely sure how you discourage a developer/publisher from implementing them; I usually don't buy games that incorporate them. Don't pre-order only works if everybody does it, and I honestly can't see that happening without a massive amount of grassroots organizing, so it may be we're stuck with it. Blame capitalism, I guess; whatever the buyers want, succeeds, and so far it looks like the buyers want per-order content.

I think those that complain are those that don't want the pre-orders and microtransactions and pay-walls, and they probably feel pretty powerless to do anything about it at this point.

I think if you go back and look at the language used pre-launch, you'll see that the way they framed the content model satisfies a lot of the problems you're talking about. Microtransactions in this case is a misnomer. Think of each DLC release as a season of your favorite TV show. There may be entire seasons you skip and don't keep in your library. Some people will own bundles of content others don't. At some juncture, it should be expected that there will be something dividing players between those bundles of content.

I agree that there still needs to be a reasonable way to reach max Light levels without any particular DLC, and the option of having previously-available gear drop as upgraded versions is probably the best overall compromise.

At this point, we're kind of past the "pre-order culture" question with Destiny, I think, though I agree it's a generally bad business practice and should be taken out behind the shed and killed with a shovel. Where it will still apply, however; is with future deals on episodic content, season passes, and exclusives tied to them. Once we're past launch, it's a whole different ballgame; one free of the slimy-used-car-salesman funk of pre-order (and platform) exclusives.

~m

Microtransations are fine as long as they aren't designed in a way to become the ideal way to play\complete a game.

I hesitate to call Desitny's DLC a micro-transation. Now, trading marks for materials, that is a microtransaction, but of a different sort... if it's in game like that, and doesn't cost real monies, is it any different? (Rhetorical question)

I think I'm using microtransaction here as more broadly indicative of the way developers have shunted pay-walls into gameplay. It started with MMO's back in the late-90's/early-2000's and has been creeping into everything at this point. Pre-order bonuses are another example.

I'm not entirely sure how you discourage a developer/publisher from implementing them; I usually don't buy games that incorporate them. Don't pre-order only works if everybody does it, and I honestly can't see that happening without a massive amount of grassroots organizing, so it may be we're stuck with it. Blame capitalism, I guess; whatever the buyers want, succeeds, and so far it looks like the buyers want per-order content.

I think those that complain are those that don't want the pre-orders and microtransactions and pay-walls, and they probably feel pretty powerless to do anything about it at this point.

I think if you go back and look at the language used pre-launch, you'll see that the way they framed the content model satisfies a lot of the problems you're talking about. Microtransactions in this case is a misnomer. Think of each DLC release as a season of your favorite TV show. There may be entire seasons you skip and don't keep in your library. Some people will own bundles of content others don't. At some juncture, it should be expected that there will be something dividing players between those bundles of content.

I agree that there still needs to be a reasonable way to reach max Light levels without any particular DLC, and the option of having previously-available gear drop as upgraded versions is probably the best overall compromise.

At this point, we're kind of past the "pre-order culture" question with Destiny, I think, though I agree it's a generally bad business practice and should be taken out behind the shed and killed with a shovel. Where it will still apply, however; is with future deals on episodic content, season passes, and exclusives tied to them. Once we're past launch, it's a whole different ballgame; one free of the slimy-used-car-salesman funk of pre-order (and platform) exclusives.

~m

I think this is still too specific to Destiny (I personally don't have a problem with how they've structured the DLC, it's just where we started; if you're upset you can't get new exotics when you didn't order the DLC, well, they're new; if you want something new, you have to pay for it). I do think macro-transaction is a good name for the DLC; if you break it up into it's constituent parts, you get some new gear, a few missions, a raid: all things that could be sold quite separately without changing them significantly. You could play the missions, which come to a nice little conclusion, and never play the raid, and never notice the difference. The gear is thematically tied to the new missions at all. Given the option of just buying gear pack for $5 or the mission pack for $5, I think some people might take that instead of the whole deal. Since Bungie sells all of it together, I think a bunch of micro-transactions just become a macro-transaction; they don't change the game significantly like other DLC I've played have.

On the other issue that crept up here: for most of the people who are upset about the availability of old content, like Nightfalls/Weeklies, I'm a little more sympathetic. It does feel like, in effect, Bungie has pulled down a big pay-wall on some of their favorite content. I definitely have a problem with previously available content being pay-walled because new content wasn't purchased. And on a larger front, I dislike all this expansion stuff anyway. The game was awfully sparse on its outset, and I feel it was so they could drop these expansions down the road to make some extra money, at the expense of a watered down product. I dislike this trend in the industry. It feels half-assed and greedy.

They have to promote their DLC\content, otherwise the people that did buy it would be pissed that it has no impact on the game.

Experiencing cool new content isn't enough impact?

I din't have the DLC until Christmas break, and I wasn't mad the weeks I couldn't do the weekly stuff.

I was immediately put off by it; on the first day I logged on after the DLC came out, most of the content that brings me back to Destiny wasn't playable.

Just like when Halo launched new maps- there was a hopper for the DLC and non-dlc stuff. The most popular playlists require all the content. It's not a brand new concept.

That was in a matchmaking environment where things would actually break down if you didn't take those sorts of actions, so there was a reasonable playability justification. When Bungie tried dialing back on the restrictions in Reach, people complained for good reason. But that wouldn't be an issue for Destiny's dailies/weeklies, where there's no matchmaking structure to dilute in the first place.

The restrictions were also kept exclusively to the matchmaking system, not to the game as a whole; if you took the initiative to set something up yourself, no core gameplay functionality was ever taken off-limits.

This is how most MMORPG's work.

Destiny is a junior MMORPG.

It is the nature of the beast,

I blame the DLC model they chose more than the fact that it is an MMO. Even so, just because every other MMO is shitty doesn't mean Bungie has to follow suit. I hate that argument.

I just unlocked the "Be Somewhere Else" perk last night. The additional time that shoulder charge is active is probably an extra 2-3 seconds, but the other main perk (carry more heavy ammo) gives you that "awesome" hidden perk where you lose heavy ammo on every respawn or after every cutscene. I can deal with that for the times when I can build up 7 rockets, but then the worst part about these legs is that they look awful. Like, completely non-badass and ugly lumps of metal just strapped onto your Titan's legs. These might get some use in PVP for me, but they certainly aren't going to replace my Ruin Wings for PVE.

Compare these two things, and tell me which one isn't more glorious: