Latest Star Wars Trailer is UP

Here. ERRMGERRRGHERRDDD

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(Why isn't Chewi gray?)

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Does he look like a scoundrel to you?

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Does he look like a scoundrel to you?

He looks more lively than in any role I've seen him in for a long ass time.

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looks better than he did for that Indy movie that i pretend doesn't exist

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looks better than he did for that Indy movie that i pretend doesn't exist

I was thinking more of Cowboys & Aliens and Ender's Game. Everything about those performances screamed, or rather grumbled under their breath, "I give a shit about this role." I get a sense from Harrison in these few, brief frames that his spark is back.

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looks better than he did for that Indy movie that i pretend doesn't exist

Ah yes...that disaster. Thank god Bogart shut down Casablanca 2.

Oh what's that, you say? They're talking about making that now? Excuse me while I go home to put a gun in my mouth.

Relax, relax...they haven't actually talked about that since 2012.

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I hope he's better than he was in the last Indiana Jones. They need to build the script better around him -- no running or doing anything athletic (unless they use a double).

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I hope he's better than he was in the last Indiana Jones. They need to build the script better around him -- no running or doing anything athletic (unless they use a double).

I'd be satisfied with Han just sitting aboard Millennium Falcon all day chilling with Baby Skywalker.

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I hope he's better than he was in the last Indiana Jones. They need to build the script better around him -- no running or doing anything athletic (unless they use a double).

I would have been fine if they had just recast Indy as someone younger, and still set it in the 30s. Doug Lee did Indy's voice in Fate of Atlantis, and I couldn't have cared any less that it wasn't Ford. He owned it, and it was an amazing story that fit right in with the character.

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I hope he's better than he was in the last Indiana Jones. They need to build the script better around him -- no running or doing anything athletic (unless they use a double).

I would have been fine if they had just recast Indy as someone younger, and still set it in the 30s. Doug Lee did Indy's voice in Fate of Atlantis, and I couldn't have cared any less that it wasn't Ford. He owned it, and it was an amazing story that fit right in with the character.

Money talks, I guess.

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think that it looks like they're back in the Mos Eisley cantina?

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I thought it was clear they were aboard the falcon.

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Really? I suppose that could be it, but it doesn't quite look right to me. Maybe it's been too long since I last watched the OT.

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Really? I suppose that could be it, but it doesn't quite look right to me.

You can tell from the green nodes on the wall (they used to be blue; good call!):

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Oh yep! You guys are right! Funny thing, it was those same nodes that got me thinking about Tatooine! :P

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Does he look like a scoundrel to you?

He doesn't really, but he never looked like a scoundrel to me in the first place, his words and actions communicated that. Now, his line about being home, that doesn't sound like a scoundrel, that sounds sentimental, but that's one line out of the whole movie.
Besides, I never cared that much for his scoundrel side. I don't want to believe he shot first because I want to believe he's a good guy. There, that should start a shitstorm about an opinion other than yours. (I do mean it, though.)

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Does he look like a scoundrel to you?

He doesn't really, but he never looked like a scoundrel to me in the first place, his words and actions communicated that. Now, his line about being home, that doesn't sound like a scoundrel, that sounds sentimental, but that's one line out of the whole movie.
Besides, I never cared that much for his scoundrel side. I don't want to believe he shot first because I want to believe he's a good guy. There, that should start a shitstorm about an opinion other than yours. (I do mean it, though.)

If it helps you enjoy the story, then so what. Cool. Probably won't be winning any contests though.

[image]

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Does he look like a scoundrel to you?

He doesn't really, but he never looked like a scoundrel to me in the first place, his words and actions communicated that. Now, his line about being home, that doesn't sound like a scoundrel, that sounds sentimental, but that's one line out of the whole movie.
Besides, I never cared that much for his scoundrel side. I don't want to believe he shot first because I want to believe he's a good guy. There, that should start a shitstorm about an opinion other than yours. (I do mean it, though.)

You obviously don't understand the mechanics of what must happen when a scoundrel runs up against a bigger scoundrel.

Don't feel too bad. Lucas agrees with you, but that's one reason why I wrote him off long ago. HE DOESN'T GET IT.

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He doesn't really, but he never looked like a scoundrel to me in the first place, his words and actions communicated that. Now, his line about being home, that doesn't sound like a scoundrel, that sounds sentimental, but that's one line out of the whole movie.
Besides, I never cared that much for his scoundrel side. I don't want to believe he shot first because I want to believe he's a good guy. There, that should start a shitstorm about an opinion other than yours. (I do mean it, though.)

You obviously don't understand the mechanics of what must happen when a scoundrel runs up against a bigger scoundrel.

Don't feel too bad. Lucas agrees with you, but that's one reason why I wrote him off long ago. HE DOESN'T GET IT.

As I recall, he appeared in an interview wearing a "Han shot first" shirt and said around that same time that executives at Fox had made the change that prompted people getting all up in arms. So I think he gets that, at least.

That's not the point for me, though. I don't care about the dynamics beyond the surface elements. It doesn't have to be realistic. Even putting aside the junk science and mystical elements, the story is mostly very arch, and I appreciate it for what it is. I want it to be good guys versus bad guys, like it's clearly trying to be, and a good guy doesn't kill someone if there's another option. Yes, Greedo would've turned him over to Jabba, and he was probably very lucky that when Jabba did get ahold of him he just hung him on the wall like a painting, but anything could have happened, there are a thousand different ways he could've made it play out differently. I could maybe be persuaded that Han changes over the years and becomes more in line with what I'd call a good guy, that would be good character development even, but to say he always was and always will be someone that would kill a person that's not immediately putting his life in danger, and that he could probably dispatch of in other ways? I'm sorry, but that's not my Han.

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He doesn't really, but he never looked like a scoundrel to me in the first place, his words and actions communicated that. Now, his line about being home, that doesn't sound like a scoundrel, that sounds sentimental, but that's one line out of the whole movie.
Besides, I never cared that much for his scoundrel side. I don't want to believe he shot first because I want to believe he's a good guy. There, that should start a shitstorm about an opinion other than yours. (I do mean it, though.)

You obviously don't understand the mechanics of what must happen when a scoundrel runs up against a bigger scoundrel.

Don't feel too bad. Lucas agrees with you, but that's one reason why I wrote him off long ago. HE DOESN'T GET IT.

As I recall, he appeared in an interview wearing a "Han shot first" shirt and said around that same time that executives at Fox had made the change that prompted people getting all up in arms. So I think he gets that, at least.

That's not the point for me, though. I don't care about the dynamics beyond the surface elements. It doesn't have to be realistic. Even putting aside the junk science and mystical elements, the story is mostly very arch, and I appreciate it for what it is. I want it to be good guys versus bad guys, like it's clearly trying to be, and a good guy doesn't kill someone if there's another option. Yes, Greedo would've turned him over to Jabba, and he was probably very lucky that when Jabba did get ahold of him he just hung him on the wall like a painting, but anything could have happened, there are a thousand different ways he could've made it play out differently. I could maybe be persuaded that Han changes over the years and becomes more in line with what I'd call a good guy, that would be good character development even, but to say he always was and always will be someone that would kill a person that's not immediately putting his life in danger, and that he could probably dispatch of in other ways? I'm sorry, but that's not my Han.

He's an anti-hero! He's supposed to be a reluctant good guy! That's why he got the girl!

Good thing too. *shudders*

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He's an anti-hero! He's supposed to be a reluctant good guy! That's why he got the girl!

Good thing too. *shudders*

Han lived a life of crime. He was a smuggler, packed a gun, and dealt with gangsters. No goody-two-shoes is gonna be like "well, it would be awful unsportsmanlike to shoot you while I have a chance at freedom. Darn, better lower my weapon and come with you!"

Someone who lives a dangerous life of crime is going to be dangerous, or he's going to be dead. He was a self-serving crook, who had no stake in the good guys' fight, and he let them know that before leaving... but he came back anyway, sticking his neck out for something greater than himself. That's character development. That's good stuff.

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He's an anti-hero! He's supposed to be a reluctant good guy! That's why he got the girl!

Good thing too. *shudders*

Han lived a life of crime. He was a smuggler, packed a gun, and dealt with gangsters. No goody-two-shoes is gonna be like "well, it would be awful unsportsmanlike to shoot you while I have a chance at freedom. Darn, better lower my weapon and come with you!"

Someone who lives a dangerous life of crime is going to be dangerous, or he's going to be dead. He was a self-serving crook, who had no stake in the good guys' fight, and he let them know that before leaving... but he came back anyway, sticking his neck out for something greater than himself. That's character development. That's good stuff.

The whole point (originally) was that he was a seedy guy in a seedy world. Yes he shot first,b/c that is who he WAS. Meeting luke, leia, et al set him on a course of redemption. Having greedo shoot first, just goes against the character development.

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He's an anti-hero! He's supposed to be a reluctant good guy! That's why he got the girl!

Good thing too. *shudders*

Han lived a life of crime. He was a smuggler, packed a gun, and dealt with gangsters. No goody-two-shoes is gonna be like "well, it would be awful unsportsmanlike to shoot you while I have a chance at freedom. Darn, better lower my weapon and come with you!"

Someone who lives a dangerous life of crime is going to be dangerous, or he's going to be dead. He was a self-serving crook, who had no stake in the good guys' fight, and he let them know that before leaving... but he came back anyway, sticking his neck out for something greater than himself. That's character development. That's good stuff.

I specifically said it was good character development, and I could maybe be persuaded to see that as how it happens, I just reject the idea that he's permanently that person, and I'd prefer to think he never was, because this is make-believe and I want to make believe that he and Luke and all of the rebel side are my version of good people. The option to do that (because in both versions we're talking a difference of a few frames IIRC) makes it a stronger story, to me.

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I specifically said it was good character development, and I could maybe be persuaded to see that as how it happens, I just reject the idea that he's permanently that person, and I'd prefer to think he never was, because this is make-believe and I want to make believe that he and Luke and all of the rebel side are my version of good people. The option to do that (because in both versions we're talking a difference of a few frames IIRC) makes it a stronger story, to me.

Not that it matters now because the films is wiping out all the rest of the canon, but Luke does succumb to the dark side for a while and serves the revived Palpatine. Also, Han and Leia's son ends up becoming the most powerful sith since Darth Vader.

Have a nice day.

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I specifically said it was good character development, and I could maybe be persuaded to see that as how it happens, I just reject the idea that he's permanently that person, and I'd prefer to think he never was, because this is make-believe and I want to make believe that he and Luke and all of the rebel side are my version of good people. The option to do that (because in both versions we're talking a difference of a few frames IIRC) makes it a stronger story, to me.

Not that it matters now because the films is wiping out all the rest of the canon, but Luke does succumb to the dark side for a while and serves the revived Palpatine. Also, Han and Leia's son ends up becoming the most powerful sith since Darth Vader.

Have a nice day.

Good change IMHO, Luke succumbing to the dark side after everything he's been through is ridiculous.

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Oh, he turns back and becomes the living embodiment of the Bright Side of Lif... errr... the Force.

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He's an anti-hero! He's supposed to be a reluctant good guy! That's why he got the girl!

Good thing too. *shudders*

Han lived a life of crime. He was a smuggler, packed a gun, and dealt with gangsters. No goody-two-shoes is gonna be like "well, it would be awful unsportsmanlike to shoot you while I have a chance at freedom. Darn, better lower my weapon and come with you!"

Someone who lives a dangerous life of crime is going to be dangerous, or he's going to be dead. He was a self-serving crook, who had no stake in the good guys' fight, and he let them know that before leaving... but he came back anyway, sticking his neck out for something greater than himself. That's character development. That's good stuff.

I specifically said it was good character development, and I could maybe be persuaded to see that as how it happens, I just reject the idea that he's permanently that person, and I'd prefer to think he never was, because this is make-believe and I want to make believe that he and Luke and all of the rebel side are my version of good people. The option to do that (because in both versions we're talking a difference of a few frames IIRC) makes it a stronger story, to me.

Permanently being someone is NOT good character development. Lucas forgot that somewhere along the way, and just about ruined the universe as a result. Han's actions were in line with a certain kind of character in Westerns in a certain kind of dangerous setting, which had been one of Lucas's original inspirations. Along with forgetting his source material, he forgot what actually made characters interesting.

This static view of characters informs several key "revisions" to the mythology, from the Greedo crap (Greedo didn't shoot at all in the original--we're not talking about a few frames) to the Midi-chlorian malarkey, the movies became more about WHAT people were rather than what they could BECOME. That's one reason why the first few movies were so inspirational, and the last ones mostly stunk.

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Permanently being someone is NOT good character development.

I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm not arguing that he was or should've been the same throughout, I was saying that I don't think he was or should've been someone who would kill someone without an absolute need before and after all that happens to him.

This static view of characters informs several key "revisions" to the mythology, from the Greedo crap (Greedo didn't shoot at all in the original--we're not talking about a few frames)

Huh, I didn't know that. I originally saw it on VHS before the prequels or even the special editions, so I figured what I was seeing was the original, other than the added title and episode number in the opening crawl.

to the Midi-chlorian malarkey,

I don't know why people get so up in arms about that. To me it's like being mad electricity is technology and not magic-- it still works the same way and it's still cool.

the movies became more about WHAT people were rather than what they could BECOME. That's one reason why the first few movies were so inspirational, and the last ones mostly stunk.

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Permanently being someone is NOT good character development.

I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm not arguing that he was or should've been the same throughout, I was saying that I don't think he was or should've been someone who would kill someone without an absolute need before and after all that happens to him.

I see little difference between saying someone is permanently a certain way and saying they are the same before and after. No matter, this whole debate is dumb, and we wouldn't be having it if Lucas had not made his stupid change and had not later made his idiotic statement about Han originally being misinterpreted as a cold-blooded killer. No one believed that in 1977. A bounty hunter had a gun trained on Han, and was about to kill him in the next few seconds--if you pay attention to the dialogue it's obvious--Han is not a bad person; he is, however, a bad ass--or was. Put into the same situation the original Han would've done the same thing the day after dancing with the ewoks--killing or be killed by a bounty hunter is irrelevant to his character development.

I don't know if Lucas' mind got addled from the California sun or from trying to count all his money over the years, but somewhere along the line he lost sight of the archetypes he had clearly based his characters on originally. I suspect he began to believe he was the genius everyone said he was, and started making up shit from scratch. Add to that mix a particularly modern and naive view of conflict, a moralistic and condescending need to "set an example" and you end up with the prequels--movies that were a depressing mix of Saturday morning cartoons, ABC after-school specials, and, worst of all, political allegory. (I'm being kind here by not characterizing them as long-form ads to sell toys.) Lucas isn't the only mega-successful Hollywood bigwig to infantilize his audience--witness the removal of guns from E.T.

I give these guys credit for being visionaries on this--they were in line with the current obsession with trigger warnings. God forbid that anyone is exposed to anything that could potentially upset them. Ultimately, though, that's a terrible approach to making art.

This static view of characters informs several key "revisions" to the mythology, from the Greedo crap (Greedo didn't shoot at all in the original--we're not talking about a few frames)

Huh, I didn't know that. I originally saw it on VHS before the prequels or even the special editions, so I figured what I was seeing was the original, other than the added title and episode number in the opening crawl.

Do you remember what you saw at this point? Look it up on Youtube.

to the Midi-chlorian malarkey,

I don't know why people get so up in arms about that. To me it's like being mad electricity is technology and not magic-- it still works the same way and it's still cool.

Actually, no. The Force was originally something akin to a spiritual discipline, something that could potentially be mastered by anyone with the will to master it. That's not 100% true--natural affinity had a role, clearly. Lucas changed it, though. Now biology equals destiny. Huge difference.

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Permanently being someone is NOT good character development.

I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm not arguing that he was or should've been the same throughout, I was saying that I don't think he was or should've been someone who would kill someone without an absolute need before and after all that happens to him.

I see little difference between saying someone is permanently a certain way and saying they are the same before and after.

I'm not arguing that. I was trying to say, I'm pretty OK with him changing, and I just would prefer that he be the kind of person that wouldn't kill if he doesn't have to.

No matter, this whole debate is dumb, and we wouldn't be having it if Lucas had not made his stupid change and had not later made his idiotic statement about Han originally being misinterpreted as a cold-blooded killer.

I agree the debate is dumb, but mostly because it's about a few seconds from a movie-- a movie that was a formative experience in many people's childhoods, including mine, and a good piece of art, but still a movie.

Add to that mix a particularly modern and naive view of conflict, a moralistic and condescending need to "set an example" and you end up with the prequels--movies that were a depressing mix of Saturday morning cartoons, ABC after-school specials, and, worst of all, political allegory. (I'm being kind here by not characterizing them as long-form ads to sell toys.) Lucas isn't the only mega-successful Hollywood bigwig to infantilize his audience--witness the removal of guns from E.T.

The most dangerous kind of person (other than perhaps someone completely out of touch with reality) is an angry parent.

I give these guys credit for being visionaries on this--they were in line with the current obsession with trigger warnings. God forbid that anyone is exposed to anything that could potentially upset them. Ultimately, though, that's a terrible approach to making art.

There's going to be a better person to do this than me, because I'm not a psychologist and I don't have personal experience with this, but I feel I should correct you on "trigger warnings". It's not supposed to be about someone just getting upset. If someone uses it that way to try to protect themselves from things they just find distasteful they should receive a verbal (if not literal) smackdown. The idea is that some people have PTSD or a similar mental issue, and seeing or hearing certain things will cause them to partially or completely relive whatever caused it, without them being able to control it. It's a well-attested phenomenon.

I'd also contest there's a widespread obsession with it, I've seen it literally a hundred times more on the Internet than all other media combined, and I don't think I've ever actually seen anyone talk about it in person (and even on the Internet, I've seen it much more in things sourced from Tumblr and things making fun of Tumblr than anything else by a wide margin).

I agree that it has limited relevance to art, though. People should make what they want, and people who can be "triggered" should seek professional help and be careful in what they consume until they can live a more ordinary, full life.

This static view of characters informs several key "revisions" to the mythology, from the Greedo crap (Greedo didn't shoot at all in the original--we're not talking about a few frames)

Huh, I didn't know that. I originally saw it on VHS before the prequels or even the special editions, so I figured what I was seeing was the original, other than the added title and episode number in the opening crawl.

Do you remember what you saw at this point? Look it up on Youtube.

To be quite honest, I haven't watched the movies in a long time, it's hard to find like 6 hours to sit and watch them (or even 2 hours to watch one of them). Apparently what I saw wasn't as original as I thought anyway (and to continue being honest, I didn't know the subtitle and episode number weren't always there until some years after I first watched the first movie).

to the Midi-chlorian malarkey,

I don't know why people get so up in arms about that. To me it's like being mad electricity is technology and not magic-- it still works the same way and it's still cool.

Actually, no. The Force was originally something akin to a spiritual discipline, something that could potentially be mastered by anyone with the will to master it. That's not 100% true--natural affinity had a role, clearly. Lucas changed it, though. Now biology equals destiny. Huge difference.

It's not a huge difference to the story. The Force is still linked to thoughts and feelings and it has the same capabilities. I do agree bringing destiny into it even more is significant, and bringing in biology more is possibly even more significant, but that's more a thing for the prequels onward, it doesn't really affect the stories already told. (Of course, I was still a pre-teen/teenager when the prequels came out, and I was the kind of kid that thought science was cooler than magic, so your mileage may vary.)

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Permanently being someone is NOT good character development.

I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm not arguing that he was or should've been the same throughout, I was saying that I don't think he was or should've been someone who would kill someone without an absolute need before and after all that happens to him.

I see little difference between saying someone is permanently a certain way and saying they are the same before and after.

I'm not arguing that. I was trying to say, I'm pretty OK with him changing, and I just would prefer that he be the kind of person that wouldn't kill if he doesn't have to.

YOU DON'T GET IT. He is that kind of person. In this situation, he had to shoot first or he would be dead.

Do you remember what you saw at this point? Look it up on Youtube.

To be quite honest, I haven't watched the movies in a long time, it's hard to find like 6 hours to sit and watch them (or even 2 hours to watch one of them). Apparently what I saw wasn't as original as I thought anyway (and to continue being honest, I didn't know the subtitle and episode number weren't always there until some years after I first watched the first movie).

Who asked you to spend hours? It takes a little over a minute. Again, Greedo never got a shot off. HAN SHOT FIRST TO SAVE HIS OWN LIFE.

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"Sorry about the mess."

Well, that and the clarinet solo.

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Huh. I gotta admit, I don't watch Star Wars all that often so when I think of that scene I always wrongly remember that Gredo was going to take Han to Jabba... but that's not what Gredo says at all! He pretty much flat out tells Han he is going to kill him and collect the bounty! That, and why the heck does Gredo miss like two feet to the right in the changed version! What a terrible shot!

Anyway, count me fully in the Han Shot First camp now. :)

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Permanently being someone is NOT good character development.

I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm not arguing that he was or should've been the same throughout, I was saying that I don't think he was or should've been someone who would kill someone without an absolute need before and after all that happens to him.

I see little difference between saying someone is permanently a certain way and saying they are the same before and after.

I'm not arguing that. I was trying to say, I'm pretty OK with him changing, and I just would prefer that he be the kind of person that wouldn't kill if he doesn't have to.

YOU DON'T GET IT. He is that kind of person. In this situation, he had to shoot first or he would be dead.

I'm not... I don't... whatever, I don't care any more.

Do you remember what you saw at this point? Look it up on Youtube.

To be quite honest, I haven't watched the movies in a long time, it's hard to find like 6 hours to sit and watch them (or even 2 hours to watch one of them). Apparently what I saw wasn't as original as I thought anyway (and to continue being honest, I didn't know the subtitle and episode number weren't always there until some years after I first watched the first movie).

Who asked you to spend hours?

No one. I want to sit and watch the movie, probably all of them. That's not related to you saying I should look it up on YouTube. (I know, I did it again, I said something that looks related and didn't address the thing it's similar to to make myself clear, I apologize.)

It takes a little over a minute. Again, Greedo never got a shot off. HAN SHOT FIRST TO SAVE HIS OWN LIFE.

remember when you said this argument was dumb?

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Permanently being someone is NOT good character development.

I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm not arguing that he was or should've been the same throughout, I was saying that I don't think he was or should've been someone who would kill someone without an absolute need before and after all that happens to him.

I see little difference between saying someone is permanently a certain way and saying they are the same before and after.

I'm not arguing that. I was trying to say, I'm pretty OK with him changing, and I just would prefer that he be the kind of person that wouldn't kill if he doesn't have to.

YOU DON'T GET IT. He is that kind of person. In this situation, he had to shoot first or he would be dead.

I'm not... I don't... whatever, I don't care any more.

Do you remember what you saw at this point? Look it up on Youtube.

To be quite honest, I haven't watched the movies in a long time, it's hard to find like 6 hours to sit and watch them (or even 2 hours to watch one of them). Apparently what I saw wasn't as original as I thought anyway (and to continue being honest, I didn't know the subtitle and episode number weren't always there until some years after I first watched the first movie).

Who asked you to spend hours?

No one. I want to sit and watch the movie, probably all of them. That's not related to you saying I should look it up on YouTube. (I know, I did it again, I said something that looks related and didn't address the thing it's similar to to make myself clear, I apologize.)

It takes a little over a minute. Again, Greedo never got a shot off. HAN SHOT FIRST TO SAVE HIS OWN LIFE.

remember when you said the argument was dumb?

George Lucas' argument was dumb, and you took it up.

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remember when you said the argument was dumb?

George Lucas' argument was dumb, and you took it up.

Maybe-- I didn't think I was, but I watched the comparison, and you're not going to like this, but the original version looks pretty cold to me, and I still think he could've gotten out of it another way. That's not to say Han is or was a bad character or a bad person, or to say his character development isn't important. Again, it's make-believe, I don't have to justify anything. I could say that little thing on Jabba's shoulder in RotJ used to be Luke's pet because that resonates with me, even though there's nothing to support that. I could even be wrong and making a dumb argument on that, but that wouldn't affect anyone else, just as this doesn't. I trust that you're mature enough to not think I'm dumb because I want to pretend about a pretend universe.

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remember when you said the argument was dumb?

George Lucas' argument was dumb, and you took it up.

Maybe-- I didn't think I was, but I watched the comparison, and you're not going to like this, but the original version looks pretty cold to me, and I still think he could've gotten out of it another way. That's not to say Han is or was a bad character or a bad person, or to say his character development isn't important. Again, it's make-believe, I don't have to justify anything. I could say that little thing on Jabba's shoulder in RotJ used to be Luke's pet because that resonates with me, even though there's nothing to support that. I could even be wrong and making a dumb argument on that, but that wouldn't affect anyone else, just as this doesn't. I trust that you're mature enough to not think I'm dumb because I want to pretend about a pretend universe.

I never said that YOU were dumb. I find Lucas' explanation for the change dumb because it's aligned with the silly (and recent) notion that you cannot be justified in killing someone unless they have assaulted you first. The immediate danger to your life is what matters, and that's been the standard in common law for centuries. You cannot wait until you've almost been killed or (obviously) KILLED killed to react defensively. Han Solo could not have survived in the world he lived in if he waited until everyone about to shoot him shot first before he shot back. So yes, the scene did reveal something about him (that he's no chump), and that's why the change was criticized.

I also think the original was better dramatically because it ratchets up the tension, the smoke cloud obscures the action so you don't know who shot, and when the smoke clears Han is the victor. It's also difficult to believe that Greedo would have missed from across the table.

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if you knew Greedo was going to kill you would you shoot first? Or would you let him kill you.

If you would shoot first: would that make you a bad person?

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if you knew Greedo was going to kill you would you shoot first? Or would you let him kill you.

If you would shoot first: would that make you a bad person?

No, but Han was too valuable to kill by the looks of it. I think he could've come up with something else.

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if you knew Greedo was going to kill you would you shoot first? Or would you let him kill you.

If you would shoot first: would that make you a bad person?

No, but Han was too valuable to kill by the looks of it. I think he could've come up with something else.

If Han was too valuable to kill, why would Greedo have shot first? #QED #hanshotfirst

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if you knew Greedo was going to kill you would you shoot first? Or would you let him kill you.

If you would shoot first: would that make you a bad person?

No, but Han was too valuable to kill by the looks of it. I think he could've come up with something else.

If Han was too valuable to kill, why would Greedo have shot first?

If he was trying to kill him with that shot he's absolutely terrible at aiming, and thus not much of a threat, either that or it was a pretty massive muscle twitch when he died.

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1) In the version in which both clearly shoot, they moved Han's head almost a full handspan to our left, making Greedo miss

2)In the original, there's no clear indication of where any shot went, there's only a giant puff of smoke and sparks (from a completely different vantage point than the new version, btw) and Greedo's charred body.

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According to The Wiki, Wookies can live up to 400 years, and Chewbacca is around 200?

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Then why isn't he chasing younger Wookie-girls and driving a Porsche?

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Maybe he's not a wookie creep

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Ugggggggggggg

(Why isn't Chewi gray?)

Ageist!

I've seen worse pics of present-day Harrison Ford. I thought he looked like what he is supposed to be--an older Han Solo.

(It is really interesting how age perception changes as you get older.)

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Ugggggggggggg

(Why isn't Chewi gray?)

Ageist!

I've seen worse pics of present-day Harrison Ford. I thought he looked like what he is supposed to be--an older Han Solo.

(It is really interesting how age perception changes as you get older.)

I guess I imagined he would look like he did in "Firewall"... but then I realized it's been 10 years since he made THAT movie.

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I've seen worse pics of present-day Harrison Ford. I thought he looked like what he is supposed to be--an older Han Solo.

Right, but I'm not supposed to be looking at Harris Ford. I'm supposed to be looking at Han Solo.

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I've seen worse pics of present-day Harrison Ford. I thought he looked like what he is supposed to be--an older Han Solo.

Right, but I'm not supposed to be looking at Harris Ford. I'm supposed to be looking at Han Solo.

Exactly. Han Solo having aged many decades. How different would you expect an older Han Solo to look?

Geez Louise. Leave fricking LA. Spend time with people over 40 who aren't botoxed to the gills. Han looks fine.

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I've seen worse pics of present-day Harrison Ford. I thought he looked like what he is supposed to be--an older Han Solo.

Right, but I'm not supposed to be looking at Harris Ford. I'm supposed to be looking at Han Solo.

Exactly. Han Solo having aged many decades. How different would you expect an older Han Solo to look?

Geez Louise. Leave fricking LA. Spend time with people over 40 who aren't botoxed to the gills. Han looks fine.

...wait till he gets a look at Mark Hamill.

I predict Luke wears a hood the whole movie!
[image]
Skywalker confirmed bladedancer. #huntermasterrace

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Exactly. Han Solo having aged many decades. How different would you expect an older Han Solo to look?

I expected to not have to look at an old Han Solo at all. Like, maybe new characters instead.

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Exactly. Han Solo having aged many decades. How different would you expect an older Han Solo to look?

I expected to not have to look at an old Han Solo at all. Like, maybe new characters instead.

Are you really surprised to see him in this though? It's been widely publicized for at least a year that Harrison has been very involved in filming - he even hurt his leg on set and they had to change the production schedule because of it. As has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, just wait until you see Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher reprising their roles thirty years later!

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I've seen worse pics of present-day Harrison Ford. I thought he looked like what he is supposed to be--an older Han Solo.

Right, but I'm not supposed to be looking at Harris Ford. I'm supposed to be looking at Han Solo.

In my mind, there's no difference.

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I've seen worse pics of present-day Harrison Ford. I thought he looked like what he is supposed to be--an older Han Solo.

Right, but I'm not supposed to be looking at Harris Ford. I'm supposed to be looking at ~~Han Solo~~ Indiana Jones.

In my mind, there's no difference.

Much better.

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Why?

I've been hopeful ever since Lucas got out of the picture. This trailer looked pretty great to me.

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I've never liked the Star Wars films. "But how can you not like them if you've never seen any of them?" Unfortunately, the billions, and billions, and billions of parodies, adaptations, references, and fan creations have filled in too many blanks.

Endless one-liners, seemingly all about the same two or three scenes.
Forum wars over who shot first.
Remake after remake after remake!!!

I'd say what the companies are doing with this long-beaten dead horse, but that would be going much too far.

The stuff I have seen is just a complete snooze-fest for me! Maybe it's the effects(I was born in 88, so that might be why), maybe it's the music--don't get me wrong, John Williams is a fantastic composer--but a million-piece orchestra is not what I want to hear during a high-octane action scene. It's definitely the fan-base--WAY too overpopulated, and far too fiercely loyal.

But what irks me most of all is the ridiculous time gap.

Let's just forget about why they'd want to start with IV, because the answer I'd get would more than likely be too long and fanboy. We'll skip on to my main point--putting ~~THIRTY~~ TWENTY YEARS between each trilogy. Who DOES that?!? I mean who, in their right mind, would say "Oh man, Return of the Jedi was a big success(I'm guessing), so let's just SIT on these piles of cash for two decades while our stars, crew and other valuable asse--oh man, I didn't even think about this--what about our FANS?! Let's just wait while everybody dies or grows super old!"

I just think that's terrible and unfair and nonsensical and just prick.

Seriously.

No kidding, if the Wachowski~~Brother~~s came up with a Matrix 4 in 2029, I'd go on a homicidal rampage. And not with joy, either.

Anybody remember when they had that Napoleon Dynamite animated series?

No?

Well, that's how short-lived it was.

This is an example of what waiting too long can do to a fanbase.

When the movie came out, everybody(including me) foamed and splooshed and cult-ed all over it, and it was the best thing ever. But waiting 10 years to do the show, after no sequels and no other things to "tide us over"/keep our attention, it was too late. We were over it. Nobody cared any more. I always say this--if they had started that animated series in 2005 like they should have, it might even still be going by now.

Apparently, that doesn't seem to work with Star Wars though. I'm guessing because of the dozens of different animated shows(all strangely called The Clone Wars), thousands of licensed, unlicensed, and (quite literally) illegal knock-off video games, OTHER movies, board games, card games, webisodes, action figures, (....radio programs?) books, props, toys, porn, cons, memorabilia, remakes, fansites and weddings/funerals.

Seriously though, shoot me and run me over if I ever find a woman who agrees to play "Live & Learn" at our wedding. :-)

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The stuff I have seen is just a complete snooze-fest for me! Maybe it's the effects(I was born in 88, so that might be why), maybe it's the music--don't get me wrong, John Williams is a fantastic composer--but a million-piece orchestra is not what I want to hear during a high-octane action scene.

The ORIGINAL death star trench run in A New Hope is perhaps one of the best action sequences in any film ever. Superbly put together, edited, and the score is perfect.

It works. Trust me.

(The special edition changes to this scene had a huge impact, and ruined the tension, suspense, buildup, and was a general mess).

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...cuz, seriously, there's like a bajillion different "editions". Trying to figure out what's in which one is brainhurt...

I grew up on the original original trilogy (my dad actually got to go to the prescreening of A New Hope), and I'd love to give my son that same experience.

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Just make sure you return it when you're done watching, and PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. Be kind, rewind.

Email me JDQuack (at) gmail

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http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Harmys-STAR-WARS-Despecialized-Edition-HD-V25-MKV-IS-OUT-NOW/topic/12713/

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I've read some informed, fair-minded critiques of Star Wars but not today.

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*Knowing head shake and sympathetic eye roll*

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And hate the people who work on Star Wars for what they've done to Star Wars fans

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I wouldn't blame him for how he feels if that's the case.

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For all we know, his parents chained him in his basement and made him watch the Holiday Special for 17 hours a day until he was 11 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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too long, didn't read
kindly go watch them before you write a novel about how they suck
edit: went back and read it, wish I hadn't, you're not even in the same galaxy with this train of thought, the stuff you bring up is either blazingly, obliviously wrong, or almost completely irrelevant
also, happy birthday

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Someone agrees with you about it being bad, but I'm thinking this might mean they waited exactly the right amount of time:

Mark Hamill is now the same age as Alec Guinness was in the original Star Wars

Also, I don't suppose there's a way to embed tweets on here?

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My oldest boy is 6, that's the age I was when I saw Return of the Jedi. It was this year that I allowed him to know that there was more to StarWars than A New Hope (Episode IV) and I showed him the despecialized editions of V & VI. I'm really trying hard to not be excited about the new ones, but it's REALLY HARD not to be, Lucas is out & I'll be sharing it with my kids... so excited, trying not to be.

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My oldest boy is 6, that's the age I was when I saw Return of the Jedi. It was this year that I allowed him to know that there was more to StarWars than A New Hope (Episode IV) and I showed him the despecialized editions of V & VI. I'm really trying hard to not be excited about the new ones, but it's REALLY HARD not to be, Lucas is out & I'll be sharing it with my kids... so excited, trying not to be.

Considering all the clone war cartoons and toys, gotta say: you've done a man's job, sir. Too bad that dream won't live, but what dream does?

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Considering all the clone war cartoons and toys, gotta say: you've done a man's job, sir. Too bad that dream won't live, but what dream does?

You mean the clone wars animated series right? Because the clone wars cartoon was awesome! I mean, who doesn't like to see a jedi rip a droid apart into nuts and bolts with the force and then use the nuts and bolts to destroy more droids!?

(skip ahead to about 3:16, it's shortly after that)

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Considering all the clone war cartoons and toys, gotta say: you've done a man's job, sir. Too bad that dream won't live, but what dream does?

You mean the clone wars animated series right? Because the clone wars cartoon was awesome! I mean, who doesn't like to see a jedi rip a droid apart into nuts and bolts with the force and then use the nuts and bolts to destroy more droids!?

(skip ahead to about 3:16, it's shortly after that)

Those were great; I was referring more to this:

And not so much it's quality as it's ubiquity. Kid has gotta be curious about all that.

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My oldest boy is 6, that's the age I was when I saw Return of the Jedi. It was this year that I allowed him to know that there was more to StarWars than A New Hope (Episode IV) and I showed him the despecialized editions of V & VI. I'm really trying hard to not be excited about the new ones, but it's REALLY HARD not to be, Lucas is out & I'll be sharing it with my kids... so excited, trying not to be.

I think I was 8 when I saw "A New Hope" for the first time.

I really hope Disney puts out digital versions of the despecialized films at some point!

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I really hope Disney puts out digital versions of the despecialized films at some point!

Same, I would buy them up in a heart beat. BluRay, digital, whatever.

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I really hope Disney puts out digital versions of the despecialized films at some point!

Same, I would buy them up in a heart beat. BluRay, digital, whatever.

Yep, me, too. I was 13 when I saw the first Star Wars a few weeks after it came out. I don't think I've ever been so profoundly excited about any other bit of entertainment. I was obsessed for years. The inverse might be my disgust with Lucus and his passive-aggressive, arrogant handling of the material beginning with the re-releases.

I want to fall in love again, but I've been deeply hurt.

Oh, and this is one of my favorite shirts.

[image]

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I think I was 8 when I saw "A New Hope" for the first time.

I was three when Return of the Jedi came out. I actually remember seeing it at a drive in theater with my mom and brothers. It's one of my youngest memories.

I really hope Disney puts out digital versions of the despecialized films at some point!

my father in law has the originals on VHS. I've thought about digitizing them. An article i read stated that 20th Century Fox Owns the Distribution rights to the original Ep 4 in perpetuity, and the distribution rights to the Original 5&6 through 2020. Any deal to release those would require going through Fox. Seems like it would be a no-brainer for Fox.

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my father in law has the originals on VHS. I've thought about digitizing them. An article i read stated that 20th Century Fox Owns the Distribution rights to the original Ep 4 in perpetuity, and the distribution rights to the Original 5&6 through 2020. Any deal to release those would require going through Fox. Seems like it would be a no-brainer for Fox.

I'm lucky enough to have the laserdiscs, which as far as I know, is the only good quality version of the Original Trilogy out that's in widescreen. It doesn't even say "A New Hope" on the crawl!

I heard that the DVD release looked terrible.

Of course, I don't have a working laserdisc player anymore…

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my father in law has the originals on VHS. I've thought about digitizing them. An article i read stated that 20th Century Fox Owns the Distribution rights to the original Ep 4 in perpetuity, and the distribution rights to the Original 5&6 through 2020. Any deal to release those would require going through Fox. Seems like it would be a no-brainer for Fox.

I'm lucky enough to have the laserdiscs, which as far as I know, is the only good quality version of the Original Trilogy out that's in widescreen. It doesn't even say "A New Hope" on the crawl!

I heard that the DVD release looked terrible.

Of course, I don't have a working laserdisc player anymore…

I do...

- CC

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my father in law has the originals on VHS. I've thought about digitizing them. An article i read stated that 20th Century Fox Owns the Distribution rights to the original Ep 4 in perpetuity, and the distribution rights to the Original 5&6 through 2020. Any deal to release those would require going through Fox. Seems like it would be a no-brainer for Fox.

I'm lucky enough to have the laserdiscs, which as far as I know, is the only good quality version of the Original Trilogy out that's in widescreen. It doesn't even say "A New Hope" on the crawl!

I heard that the DVD release looked terrible.

Of course, I don't have a working laserdisc player anymore…

I do...

- CC

[image]
CaneLAN confirmed.

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I heard that the DVD release looked terrible.

I can confirm. I have the DVDs and archived a digital copy on my computer. It practically looks worse than just watching the VHS copies with the way that the picture has been manipulated. There are so many strange splotches of color on the edges of the screen in certain outdoor scenes it makes me sad. But hey, still highly watchable.

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I really hope Disney puts out digital versions of the despecialized films at some point!

Unlikely. The original negatives were cut and reconformed to the special editions back in the 90s. The Original Trilogy simply does not exist anymore in a suitable format. There may be separation masters from the original cut negative still around, and you MIGHT be able to get by if there was a good technicolor print somewhere. That would really be the only chance.

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It's weird to despise one of your childhood heros.

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It's weird to despise one of your childhood heroes.

In my mind, Master Chief is still floating in space, not crying about his feeeeeeeliiiings or getting exploited by a company made up of idiots and glue-sniffers.

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It's weird to despise one of your childhood heroes.

In my mind, Master Chief is still floating in space, not crying about his feeeeeeeliiiings or getting exploited by a company made up of idiots and glue-sniffers.

Wait, Chief and Cortana aren't still floating in space?

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I really hope Disney puts out digital versions of the despecialized films at some point!

Unlikely. The original negatives were cut and reconformed to the special editions back in the 90s. The Original Trilogy simply does not exist anymore in a suitable format. There may be separation masters from the original cut negative still around, and you MIGHT be able to get by if there was a good technicolor print somewhere. That would really be the only chance.

They definitely still exist somewhere in some form. I own the DVD version of the trilogy that came with the original theatrical release, and you can get it still, but you're going to pay for it! For example here is Episode IV on DVD, with both the special edition and original theatrical release, it'll just cost you $34.

Edit: It occurred to me these could just be transfers from the Laser Disc version, not sure though.

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They definitely still exist somewhere in some form. I own the DVD version of the trilogy that came with the original theatrical release, and you can get it still, but you're going to pay for it! For example here is Episode IV on DVD, with both the special edition and original theatrical release, it'll just cost you $34.

Edit: It occurred to me these could just be transfers from the Laser Disc version, not sure though.

That is what I have, & the 'original theatrical release' versions are poor. IIRC they're the letterboxed versions (sounds good right?) but presented as a 4x3 video (ugh), so watching it on a 16x9 screen you get the letterboxed bars on top&bottom, PLUS 4x3 bars on the sides. I pretty sure they were pulled from the laserdisc version, or maybe even the VHS version. I just remember watching them and being very disappointed in the quality of the video. Now the quality of the 'lucas hacked' discs are great. It's almost like Lucas wanted to spit in his fans eye. "Oh, they want the original theatrical version? Sure, ok, but make it crappy so my changes look good."

Now, I could be wrong on the details, but I recall they were pretty bad.

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Yeah the quality is definitely not great. I would definitely say it's better than VHS, but not by a large margin.

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I'm really looking forward to it.

If it's a great film, I get a great movie and have fun. If it's not, I get a hilarious Plinkett review. It's a win/win!

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STAR WARS! NEW STAR WARS THIS YEAR!!!

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Here. ERRMGERRRGHERRDDD ERRMGERRRGHERRDDD ERRMGERRRGHERRDDD ERRMGERRRGHERRDDD, somebody hold me

Embedded

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Pandemic makes Battlefront
Battlefront becomes most successful Star Wars Video game ever.
Pandemic makes Battlefront 2
Battlefront 2 is even better than the original, and outperforms it.
EA buys out Pandemic
EA shuts down Pandemic, lays off entire staff
EA acquires rights to publish all non-mobile Star Wars games through 2020, announces new Battlefront.

Yeah, I'm a bit salty about this.

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[image]

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Your original post sounded just like this:

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Just wasn't sure because Ian Malcolm pic was from clearly different scene in movie.

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Just wasn't sure because Ian Malcolm pic was from clearly different scene in movie.

Can't miss out on them sweet, sweet Goldblum abdominals.

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Yeah, I'm a bit salty about this.

1. LucasArts makes kick ass Star Wars games, in addition to other great games as well.

2. Star Wars games do the best, so they shelve the other properties and focus just on Star Wars games

3. Too many crappy Star Wars games

4. Nobody buys crap.

5. Company folds.

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[image]

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Oh man it took me 6 months to finish this game. There were like 2 stupid ass puzzles I was stuck on forever. But I did it!

But this game, is one of the best ever. In all of gaming.

[image]

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None of this "X-Wing" crap. TIE Fighter ruled!

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Without Star Wars Battlefront, I wouldn't be on this site right now.

That was the game that turned me on to the entire shooter genre.

I have very little faith this sequel will be able to compare.

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Alright. I'm sold. Actual gameplay, that was not, but if it ends up looking half that good, and playing close to that smoothly, I'm in.

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This isn't Star Wars: Republic Commando.

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This isn't Star Wars: Republic Commando.

One day. One day we'll go back for Sev...

That said, I did say back when I was converted to Battlefield by BC2, that if any studio could do Battlefront 3 justice, it would be DICE. And look how my faith has been rewarded!

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I know that sounds a bit overly dismissive. But space combat in Battlefront 2 is what really made me fall in love with the game. It's also what set it apart from all the other "Battlefield" style games.

Dogfighting around attack cruisers, boarding and sabotaging capital ships, taking control of external turrets to defend your own ship... it was absolutely epic. The ships themselves handled like a dream and were varied in their combat abilities.

My fear, which appears to be coming true, is that Dice is just making another Battlefield game with a Star Wars skin on it. Once upon a time I would have been cool with that too, but given how poor the last several Battlefield games have been, I'm not so hopeful :(

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By several are you including the cops and robbers thing? Be caused I liked 3. Well, th emultiplayer of 3...

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Check it out and let me know what you think!

The casting tapes for Luke & Leia, as well as Han Solo are also up. Enjoy!

PS: I appear in at least one of these videos. Guess which one I am! Also I did all of the editing.

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[image]

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Latest Star Wars Trailer is UP (Off-Topic)

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

+1

+2

+2

+2

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Meh. We all know what happens when you use stunt doubles...

Old Han Solo

I imagine that probably had something to do with this.

Does anyone else

Does anyone else

Does anyone else

Does anyone else

Does anyone else

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Don't white wash the man's crimes!

This guy gets it...

this

This guy gets it...

This guy gets it...

This guy gets it...

This guy gets it...

This guy gets it...

This guy gets it...

This guy gets it...

This guy gets it...

This guy gets it...

Best part about that scene:

You guys had subtitles?!

This guy gets it...

This guy gets it...

This guy gets it...

This guy gets it...

This guy gets it...

he shot first because he had to

Sounds like a good case of self defense to me.

he shot first because he had to

Bad logic.

Bad logic.

Bad logic.

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Man, if he thinks Harrison Ford looks bad...

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Old Han Solo

Wookie lifespan is around 400 years.

Someone Slit My Throat.

Someone Slit My Throat.

Confused. Does that mean you hate it or can't bare to wait?

Someone Slit My Throat.

Someone Slit My Throat.

Are the despecialized editions worth tracking down?

And can you point us in the right direction?...

I have all 3 and will let anyone borrow my digital backups

And can you point us in the right direction?...

Someone Slit My Throat.

Someone Slit My Throat.

Sounds like you hate Star Wars fans

TL;DR - Hates he isn't part of the party.Doesn't understand.

Hey now. Maybe he just saw this first.

Unlikely. 1978. Point noted all the same.

He's begging for death after a trailer announcement.

Someone Slit My Throat.

Someone Slit My Throat.

Relevant IMG