This is the first Iron Banner I've played below max level. In the past I said I wanted to see the level advantage increases so that a 32 had an easier time against lower levels. I don't want that anymore. Not after losing battle after battle after battle as a 31. Most notably is the way a Bladedancer's sticky grenade won't kill a level 32 enemy. I'll do everything right, get the stick, successfully evade, and watch as the enemy survives with a sliver of health. Also there were plenty of times a full blast of my Universal Remote will leave a 32 alive.

Basically, weapon power, defense rating, and level does matter. Even a difference as small as one level.

The system is working as it should ... which is why I'm not going to do another Iron Banner underlevel. There's enough lag and randos to deal with already without adding on a damage reduction to my troubles. It's such a relief to play plain control where my attacks actually kill people when they should.

It's only your grenades and super that are really affected by your level though. Maxed out weapons should still do full damage. Who uses sticky grenades as a hunter anyway?

On my 27 defender I have a 300 final boss and a 331 secret handshake, I can 1 shot kill with boss but don't 1 shot kill at point blank range with shotty. Is it because I'm not scoping with shotty so the spread is not killing ?

I love seeing the salt when I'm 27, rest of team is 32 and I'm leading the team ;)

This is the first Iron Banner I've played below max level. In the past I said I wanted to see the level advantage increases so that a 32 had an easier time against lower levels. I don't want that anymore. Not after losing battle after battle after battle as a 31. Most notably is the way a Bladedancer's sticky grenade won't kill a level 32 enemy. I'll do everything right, get the stick, successfully evade, and watch as the enemy survives with a sliver of health. Also there were plenty of times a full blast of my Universal Remote will leave a 32 alive.

Basically, weapon power, defense rating, and level does matter. Even a difference as small as one level.

The system is working as it should ... which is why I'm not going to do another Iron Banner underlevel. There's enough lag and randos to deal with already without adding on a damage reduction to my troubles. It's such a relief to play plain control where my attacks actually kill people when they should.

Eh, I disagree. Just tonight I ran my 29 Titan for the evening. I was consistently a top scorer out of our group of 32s. And at least one game I went 31 with a K/D of 4.(Something) against a team of 32s.

It's been my experience that level doesn't really matter at all, unless you go in as a sub20. (Which I've done, and yes it totally sucked) But then I've been playing sub max for pretty much all the Iron Banners. In fact, this is the first IB I've played where I could even put a Max Level on the field. (I still don't, better perks on my sub-max gear)

- No text -

- No text -

The worst part is when you shoulder charge someone and start walking away only to realize that the shoulder charge didn't actually kill them.

It's only your grenades and super that are really affected by your level though. Maxed out weapons should still do full damage.

Should they? All it would take is losing a few points to the level difference to have me dead and my enemy at one pixel of health... Level difference does affect weapons, we know that, and it does affect grenades even one level lower, so why not weapons as well?

Who uses sticky grenades as a hunter anyway?

Those of us who like going 37 kills, 2 assists, 11 deaths, for 6855 points?

This is the first Iron Banner I've played below max level. In the past I said I wanted to see the level advantage increases so that a 32 had an easier time against lower levels. I don't want that anymore. Not after losing battle after battle after battle as a 31. Most notably is the way a Bladedancer's sticky grenade won't kill a level 32 enemy. I'll do everything right, get the stick, successfully evade, and watch as the enemy survives with a sliver of health. Also there were plenty of times a full blast of my Universal Remote will leave a 32 alive.

Basically, weapon power, defense rating, and level does matter. Even a difference as small as one level.

The system is working as it should ... which is why I'm not going to do another Iron Banner underlevel. There's enough lag and randos to deal with already without adding on a damage reduction to my troubles. It's such a relief to play plain control where my attacks actually kill people when they should.

Eh, I disagree. Just tonight I ran my 29 Titan for the evening. I was consistently a top scorer out of our group of 32s. And at least one game I went 31 with a K/D of 4.(Something) against a team of 32s.

It's been my experience that level doesn't really matter at all, unless you go in as a sub20. (Which I've done, and yes it totally sucked) But then I've been playing sub max for pretty much all the Iron Banners. In fact, this is the first IB I've played where I could even put a Max Level on the field. (I still don't, better perks on my sub-max gear)

I think the difference is subtle and sometimes won't matter as much. Like if my Three Little Words takes 9 bullets to kill when it might normally take 6 I won't notice so much because I was planning on firing 9 to 15 at an enemy anyway. But when I'm failing to get "earned" grenade kills, or Backstabs, or one hit Universal Remote kills and it's always on level 32s, I've got to think it's the Iron Banner doing its thing.

This is the first Iron Banner I've played below max level. In the past I said I wanted to see the level advantage increases so that a 32 had an easier time against lower levels. I don't want that anymore. Not after losing battle after battle after battle as a 31. Most notably is the way a Bladedancer's sticky grenade won't kill a level 32 enemy. I'll do everything right, get the stick, successfully evade, and watch as the enemy survives with a sliver of health. Also there were plenty of times a full blast of my Universal Remote will leave a 32 alive.

Basically, weapon power, defense rating, and level does matter. Even a difference as small as one level.

The system is working as it should ... which is why I'm not going to do another Iron Banner underlevel. There's enough lag and randos to deal with already without adding on a damage reduction to my troubles. It's such a relief to play plain control where my attacks actually kill people when they should.

Hmm. I won 7 in a row yesterday as a 31. (I've probably lost that many, too.)

I was under the impression that the Iron Banner's power scaling was such that players within 2 levels of each other are on equal footing.

So a 32 vs a 30 would make no difference at all. Sam with a 30 vs a 28. But if that 32 fought that 28, then there would be an advantage.

Can someone smarter than me confirm?

Well.... I can. I had several grenade sticks over several games kill anyone my level or lower but not kill level 32s. Bungie said that within two levels you would be competitive and they showed that damage curve that doesn't really drop off till more than two levels away, but it seems pretty apparent that there is at least some damage scaling even with just a one level difference.

I was under the impression that the Iron Banner's power scaling was such that players within 2 levels of each other are on equal footing.

So a 32 vs a 30 would make no difference at all. Sam with a 30 vs a 28. But if that 32 fought that 28, then there would be an advantage.

Can someone smarter than me confirm?

The way I remember them saying it, there isn't a large difference between three levels. So there is a small difference between 32 and 31, a slightly larger gap between 31 and 30, and then a little more between 32 and 29, then the difference begins to be much more dramatic from 4-7 levels of difference. Also (just going off my recollection so I may be wrong), I think the level difference gap is capped at 7 levels, so being a level 24 going against a 32 is the same as being a 14 going against a 32.

Maxed out weapons should still do full damage.

Level difference does affect weapons, we know that, and it does affect grenades even one level lower, so why not weapons as well?

After getting dropped as a 32 by two bursts from a 30 with Red Death, am not 100% convinced weapons are affected by player level. Even if all 6 rounds were perfect headshots, I don't think that's supposed to happen.

-Disciple

It's only your grenades and super that are really affected by your level though. Maxed out weapons should still do full damage.

Should they? All it would take is losing a few points to the level difference to have me dead and my enemy at one pixel of health... Level difference does affect weapons, we know that, and it does affect grenades even one level lower, so why not weapons as well?

Who uses sticky grenades as a hunter anyway?

Those of us who like going 37 kills, 2 assists, 11 deaths, for 6855 points?

Dang, I only got 36 kills, 3 assists, 11 deaths, and 7395 points.

I use tripmine as a gunslinger and arcbolt as a bladedancer. I honestly couldn't tell you which spec I was in this particular Iron Banner game because I use both depending on my bounties.

Point is, your question was silly. Every grenade in Destiny has a use except the Defender's "Harmless Laser Light Show" grenades...

They have to be at some point. If you go in as a 20 with a 331 weapon you should still have an impossible time killing anyone. The question is how much the damage falls off per level. With grenades it seems to be enough to that a grenade that will kill is changed to one that will not kill.

- No text -

That one's great for killing yourself while mining Ogre kills lol.

Yeah. My favorite part of Destiny is trying to be killed by the Sparkles. It is hard! I think there's an achievement for it!

Really? I always felt like the Hunter grenades all sucked except for trip mine.

- No text -

They actually get the job done, where the bolt grenade requires putting damage on the target either before or after the grenade to get the kill.

Yeah, I usually shoot a dude once or twice and then grenade him around the corner to finish him off. Alternately, I'll chuck an arcbolt grenade at a control zone and then come in to one-shot everyone with my hawkmoon after.

I still think grenades in destiny, overall, are terrible. The PvE enemy grenades are so bad you can basically ignore them unless there's a burn on, and the PvP grenades just lack... power. It's so rare to get more than 1 kill with a grenade (even when the enemy is standing next to each other), and very common to get no kills at all. It makes me sad.

Tripmines are super OP.

Yeah, I usually shoot a dude once or twice and then grenade him around the corner to finish him off. Alternately, I'll chuck an arcbolt grenade at a control zone and then come in to one-shot everyone with my hawkmoon after.

I still think grenades in destiny, overall, are terrible. The PvE enemy grenades are so bad you can basically ignore them unless there's a burn on, and the PvP grenades just lack... power. It's so rare to get more than 1 kill with a grenade (even when the enemy is standing next to each other), and very common to get no kills at all. It makes me sad.

Grenades are about weakening an enemy or changing the flow of an engagement, not nuking an enemy from a distance. And they do a good job and have a fun variety to them. Odd that you seem to understand that and then flop to calling them terrible. I'll give you a 3/10.

Grenades are about weakening an enemy or changing the flow of an engagement, not nuking an enemy from a distance. And they do a good job and have a fun variety to them. Odd that you seem to understand that and then flop to calling them terrible. I'll give you a 3/10.

lol well played.

It's only because I'm used to the grenades in every other game, ever.

Tripmines are the only Hunter grenade I think are worth anything.

Titans and Warlocks have decent options, too, but none of the grenades in destiny hold a candle to Halo's grenades. Or really the grenades in any other game with grenades that I can thing of.

You're one of those people who thought the frag grenades in Reach were fine, aren't you?

IMO, at a high level, the purpose of grenades in an FPS should always be to flush an enemy out of cover.

NOT to be used as a throw-able rocket.

The only grenades that should be one-hit kills are stickies. Period.

I don't think grenades should necessarily be one or the other. It all boils down to the kind of game you have and the overall availability of the grenades.

Since Destiny has us regenerating grenades all the time, not to mention the secondary nature of them (blinding, traps, area-of-denial, throw-and-forget), I welcome the fact that they aren't like Reach's frags in the Crucible.

Grenades are about weakening an enemy or changing the flow of an engagement, not nuking an enemy from a distance. And they do a good job and have a fun variety to them. Odd that you seem to understand that and then flop to calling them terrible. I'll give you a 3/10.

lol well played.

It's only because I'm used to the grenades in every other game, ever.

Like the decade long Halo series? Where the standard grenade never, ever killed by itself? Look, I'll be happy to talk and debate with you about the merits of grenades or whatever else, but only whenever you decide you want to have an actual discussion. I'm not messing with your pathetic fanboy crap or your clearly dishonest hyperbole.

I'm out.

A Reach frag grenade did exactly zero lasting damage. Exactly the same as all of Destiny's non-sticky grenades (provided you don't stand in an area of effect or something silly.)

Just replace whichever mention of Reach's grenade for some other frag grenade that is fully capable of OHK people. Say CoD's grenades.

The real question is which is more uselss: Halo 4's pulse grenade, Desinty's Voidwalker Sparkle grenade, or Destiny's Defender Momentary Laser Light Show grenade? I have to try really hard to be killed by any of those. :p

A Reach frag grenade did exactly zero lasting damage. Exactly the same as all of Destiny's non-sticky grenades (provided you don't stand in an area of effect or something silly.)

Who are these mythical enemies in Reach who use grenades but never guns as well?

- No text -

A Reach frag grenade did exactly zero lasting damage. Exactly the same as all of Destiny's non-sticky grenades (provided you don't stand in an area of effect or something silly.)

Who are these mythical enemies in Reach who use grenades but never guns as well?

Probably standing along side the mythical Ragashingo that made anything resembling that claim. :)

I was discussing the power of the grenades themselves. Of course grenades are used in conjunction with other forms of attack! But there were also plenty of times that I'd take a frag to the face and back off to regain my health and shields.

- No text -

So here are the things I dislike about Destiny's grenades vs. Halo: CE.

1) I miss being able to cook grenades.
2) Why can't my space magic guy throw the grenade further than 10 feet?
3) Most grenades in Destiny (unless they stick) do less damage than a single shot from my Hawkmoon (and not even the lucky shot).
4) I miss being able to switch grenades on the fly for situational use.
5) The grenades in Destiny vary dramatically in terms of power. I'll focus on Hunter grenades because I'm most familiar with that glass: Without a stick, Tripmine is the only hunter grenade that can earn a kill from full health. With a direct hit, arcbolt and skip grenades still don't score a kill (maybe skip does if you hit before it bounces? I'm not sure on that one since I never use it). The result is less variety in games because some grenades feel worse than others, regardless of the situation.

Because someone will claim I'm being one-sided, there are things that I like about Destiny's grenades vs. other games:

1) Lots of variety. With small buffs to the lesser-used grenades I think we'd see more variety in PvP as well.
2) Lasting area of denial effects.
3) The more powerful grenades can be shot to eliminate them (lightning, trip mine).
4) The grenades for each class fit the playstyles and themes well.

And then there's this: In PvE, the enemy grenades are literally worthless. I don't know why they exist since they do miniscule amounts of damage. The only time I care about them at all is if the burn for the enemy grenade is active. Flip side being PvE player grenades are massive killers. I wish there was more similarity in terms of damage there.

- No text -

- No text -

...I must be going rampant.