The Vault Problem

Vault space is going to be a huge issue.

We are getting a ton more exotic and legendary weapons with HoW. Our old ones will be useful due to ascending. There already isn't enough vault space to hold the exotics (and I do not keep duplicates). Either I will have to throw out some weapons I like, or else just not use any new stuff.

What if you want to make a new character? If I want to make a Titan, that means I must delete a hunter, who is carrying stuff because there's not enough space. All that loot goes away. It just gets worse with time.

This needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. What do we do down the line with the next 2 expansions and comet? The increase we got before is not anywhere near enough.

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They implied that the last space bump was a temporary improvement with more to come but I would like to hear an update on that. I agree that this is the downside to weapon upgrades. I'm sure they see that too.

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Are you saying that you doubt whatever they increase it to is not going to be enough? How do you know how much they plan to extend it? Or even if they have another solution?

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Are you saying that you doubt whatever they increase it to is not going to be enough? How do you know how much they plan to extend it? Or even if they have another solution?

Their solution I think needs to manifest in House of Wolves. Not later.

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It is almost a certainty that it won't be happening. They have already outlined a rough version of their plan.

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It is almost a certainty that it won't be happening. They have already outlined a rough version of their plan.

And that is exactly the problem.

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I think the vast majority of players would rather have a new end-game activity. Or ToO. I wouldn't say that is a problem at all, it is just Bungie catering to their audience. Not to you.

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I think the vast majority of players would rather have a new end-game activity. Or ToO. I wouldn't say that is a problem at all, it is just Bungie catering to their audience. Not to you.

It can be easy to forget that the majority of Destiny players are nowhere close to running out of space. Some of us here on DBO are the very definition of an "edge case" :)

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I think the vast majority of players would rather have a new end-game activity. Or ToO. I wouldn't say that is a problem at all, it is just Bungie catering to their audience. Not to you.

It can be easy to forget that the majority of Destiny players are nowhere close to running out of space. Some of us here on DBO are the very definition of an "edge case" :)

I'm pretty sure that's the part that Cody forgets most of the time. ;)

I'm probably an edge case myself (in terms of hours played, goodies stored, etc) and I have less than half of what he has. For 99+% of Destiny players, this is NOT an issue.

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I have only ever filled the Weapons section of my Vault once. Just once, ever; in fact, outside of this case, I've never used more than two rows, and most of the times I got that far were simply shuffling.

What's this one case, you ask?

All the Blue engrams Rahool can't decrypt yet. :P

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Well, you weren't supposed to have several Hunters in the first place, ya goof.

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Vault space is going to be a huge issue.

We are getting a ton more exotic and legendary weapons with HoW. Our old ones will be useful due to ascending. There already isn't enough vault space to hold the exotics (and I do not keep duplicates). Either I will have to throw out some weapons I like, or else just not use any new stuff.

What if you want to make a new character? If I want to make a Titan, that means I must delete a hunter, who is carrying stuff because there's not enough space. All that loot goes away. It just gets worse with time.

This needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. What do we do down the line with the next 2 expansions and comet? The increase we got before is not anywhere near enough.

I totally agree that more space is needed, but I suspect it won't be as bad as we might fear. Thinking back to when Dark Below dropped, I scrapped A LOT of weapons. Yes, there was the jump from 300 to 331, but there's more to it than that for some of us.

Personally, I have a lot of weapons in my arsenal that I barely use, but I hang on to them because I like each of my characters to have a relatively complete range of weapon types and elemental types at their disposal. So I have a lot of Void and Arc rocket launchers and machine guns, shotguns, and sniper rifles taking up space. I'm not married to any of them, but I keep them just so I have something that fills that role.

As I start to get new HoW weapons, the first thing I will do is delete some of these old rarely-used specialty weapons to make room.

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As I start to get new HoW weapons, the first thing I will do is delete some of these old rarely-used specialty weapons to make room.

Well, but you never know which of those is useful now, with the changing activities. Especially given that you can ascend, I have no doubt I've thrown away a lot of great weapons. I had a Zombie Apocalypse of each type. Gone. I really really wish I had those back.

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As I start to get new HoW weapons, the first thing I will do is delete some of these old rarely-used specialty weapons to make room.

Well, but you never know which of those is useful now, with the changing activities. Especially given that you can ascend, I have no doubt I've thrown away a lot of great weapons. I had a Zombie Apocalypse of each type. Gone. I really really wish I had those back.

I hear you, and I feel the same way about a lot of the gear I've deleted, but I think we might be getting a bit sentimental over lost gear that we would actually never use. I have 92 legendary and exotic weapons, and 90% of the time I'm rolling with Fatebringer+Black Hammer+Gjallarhorn. I could easily scrap 60 weapons and still have more than enough to enjoy the game :-/

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As I start to get new HoW weapons, the first thing I will do is delete some of these old rarely-used specialty weapons to make room.

Well, but you never know which of those is useful now, with the changing activities. Especially given that you can ascend, I have no doubt I've thrown away a lot of great weapons. I had a Zombie Apocalypse of each type. Gone. I really really wish I had those back.

I hear you, and I feel the same way about a lot of the gear I've deleted, but I think we might be getting a bit sentimental over lost gear that we would actually never use. I have 92 legendary and exotic weapons, and 90% of the time I'm rolling with Fatebringer+Black Hammer+Gjallarhorn. I could easily scrap 60 weapons and still have more than enough to enjoy the game :-/

I will grant I use some weapons way more than others. However, how many pulse rifles did you throw out before they got buffed? I sharded my first Thorn because it sucked. You hang on to your stuff because tomorrow it could be great, and I can't predict what Bungie will change!

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I will grant I use some weapons way more than others. However, how many pulse rifles did you throw out before they got buffed?

I sharded 5 legendary Pulse rifles the week before Bungie announced their plans to buff them lol.

But as much as that stung at first, I've come to realize that I made the right decision sharding them.

Let me put it this way: in PvE, auto rifles suck. We all know it. But I still use them from time to time because I enjoy them. I have fun using that weapon type, even if it isn't the most effective. I sharded my Pulse Rifles because I never used them. I don't enjoy them. I still have both Raid PRs, which are fantastic after the buff, and I still never use them.

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Let me put it this way: in PvE, auto rifles suck. We all know it.

I still have no clue what everyone's on about, with this.

They're, like, slightly worse than before.

Oh noooooooooooooooo.

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Let me put it this way: in PvE, auto rifles suck. We all know it.

I still have no clue what everyone's on about, with this.

They're, like, slightly worse than before.

Oh noooooooooooooooo.

I'll tell you what. One of these days, I'll pick a section that has a bunch of enemies. I'll do with with a hand cannon, Scout Rifle, Pulse Rifle, and Auto Rifle. I'll post the video. You'll see how much worse the auto rifle is. I won't even try to skew it: I'll do the first runs of each.

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I admit they're not the best.

I think the issue might be semantics, actually?

If by "they suck" you mean "they're suboptimal" or "they're the worst choice", I'd agree, and then use them anyways because they're the most fun.

If by "they suck" you mean "they're bad", like "suck" parses to me, I'd have a quibble.

Something you can easily do adequate with doesn't suck.

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I admit they're not the best.

I think the issue might be semantics, actually?

If by "they suck" you mean "they're suboptimal" or "they're the worst choice", I'd agree, and then use them anyways because they're the most fun.

If by "they suck" you mean "they're bad", like "suck" parses to me, I'd have a quibble.

Something you can easily do adequate with doesn't suck.

Then use them. I find weapons that are lethal but demand precision to be more fun :-)

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Yeah, and you use your guns, if that's what's fun for you. :)

Sounds like this was semantics, after all.

(For the record, I've used Thorn and The Last Word and Bad Juju and MIDA Multi-Tool in PvE, all but Thorn maxed-- I don't really feel like I do better with them. That's why I don't really see the Autos suck deal. Oh well.)

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Yeah, and you use your guns, if that's what's fun for you. :)

Sounds like this was semantics, after all.

(For the record, I've used Thorn and The Last Word and Bad Juju and MIDA Multi-Tool in PvE, all but Thorn maxed-- I don't really feel like I do better with them. That's why I don't really see the Autos suck deal. Oh well.)

I felt the same way about hand cannons until I got enough practice with them to consistently land headshots. All of a sudden I was wiping out mobs like they were nothing :)

And for what it's worth, none of the weapons you listed are particularly great for PvE. Decent, but there are far more effective choices. Hand Cannons like Fatebringer or Hawkmoon blow the others away. Timur's Lash and Red Hand IX can be deadly in PvE as well, if you get a good roll.

For scout rifles, anything with Firefly can be very effective. Every couple of shots you cause a huge explosion that can instantly clear our 4-5 enemies. This is also what makes Fatebringer so much better than every other primary for most PvE situations. It can kill most mob enemies with a single headshot, and it has the firefly perk. In crowded rooms, you can pull the trigger 5 or 6 times and kill 20 enemies.

Once you get used to that kind of stopping power, it's tough to go back to an auto rifle ;p

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So, if those things are decent, and I do better with Auto Rifles than them, even accounting for my skillset bias, shouldn't that peg ARs at decent as well? :P

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(For the record, I've used Thorn and The Last Word and Bad Juju and MIDA Multi-Tool in PvE, all but Thorn maxed-- I don't really feel like I do better with them. That's why I don't really see the Autos suck deal. Oh well.)

These are all not great pve weapons. Well, bad juju is maybe ok and MIDA is nice because of the speed bonus.

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I admit they're not the best.

I think the issue might be semantics, actually?

If by "they suck" you mean "they're suboptimal" or "they're the worst choice", I'd agree, and then use them anyways because they're the most fun.

If by "they suck" you mean "they're bad", like "suck" parses to me, I'd have a quibble.

Something you can easily do adequate with doesn't suck.

When I say "they suck", I mean in relation to the other primaries. When I really want a challenge, I run through a daily or weekly heroic with an auto rifle. As I said before, I love using them, but they're weak enough to prevent them from being a viable option when you really need to get down to business. I'd never use one during a hard mode raid, for example... Or a nightfall, aside from raid ARs that match the burn modifier.

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they're weak enough to prevent them from being a viable option when you really need to get down to business. I'd never use one during a hard mode raid, for example... Or a nightfall, aside from raid ARs that match the burn modifier.

I do the Vault on Hard with the Epilogue and Doctor Nope/Silimar's Wrath all the time. I only use the Wrath in Crota's End. I use Nope for Dailies and Weeklies, and Wrath for when that proves too difficult-- For Nightfalls, I go with the burn, which so far is the Epilogue or the Edict. If it was a Solar or nil Burn Nightfall that I was going through, I'd definitely use my Wrath, as Solar Primaries have eluded me.

It's not really that much of a challenge. At all. It only ever gets annoying when charged by a Minotaur with noone to back me up. And this is the archetype purported to suck harder than most ARs!

I've used stuff like Bad Juju in the Raids; I honestly feel like I do worse.

If your concern is with viability, not just efficacy, you might just be bad with Auto Rifles.

Shrug.

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they're weak enough to prevent them from being a viable option when you really need to get down to business. I'd never use one during a hard mode raid, for example... Or a nightfall, aside from raid ARs that match the burn modifier.

I do the Vault on Hard with the Epilogue and Doctor Nope/Silimar's Wrath all the time. I only use the Wrath in Crota's End. I use Nope for Dailies and Weeklies, and Wrath for when that proves too difficult-- For Nightfalls, I go with the burn, which so far is the Epilogue or the Edict. If it was a Solar or nil Burn Nightfall that I was going through, I'd definitely use my Wrath, as Solar Primaries have eluded me.

It's not really that much of a challenge. At all. It only ever gets annoying when charged by a Minotaur with noone to back me up. And this is the archetype purported to suck harder than most ARs!

I've used stuff like Bad Juju in the Raids; I honestly feel like I do worse.

If your concern is with viability, not just efficacy, you might just be bad with Auto Rifles.

Shrug.

Bad Juju is also not a good example of a strong PvE primary. It's way better since the buff, but not great.

The Vault of Glass is also a specific case where ARs are particularly useful at times, because they're great against Oracles. I'll usually switch to Atheon's Epilogue during those segments as well.

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The Vault of Glass is also a specific case where ARs are particularly useful at times, because they're great against Oracles. I'll usually switch to Atheon's Epilogue during those segments as well.

I just use corrective measure against the oracles.

Hand cannons just rock against the Vex. You can one shot a Hobgoblin and not even worry about their stasis. The higher damage means the explosive rounds damage is huge. The Vault of Glass is a textbook example of where hand cannons shine.

The only place in the game I'd rather use another primary is against the Cabal. Scout Rifles rule there.

Against waves of thrall, where you'd think an Auto Rifle would be great, the Mythoclast reigns supreme.

Chalk it up to playstyle if you want, but they aren't optimal anywhere. Nor are they rewarding to USE.

I did ponder whether Abyss Defiant has a place on the Omnigul Strike… maybe I should try it out.

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Headshots with Saharas are fun, man, what can I say.

The precision weapons just don't feel as good when I hit precision shots with them, ironically, and I can't pull off the silly just-hold-down-the-trigger affairs, either.

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I did ponder whether Abyss Defiant has a place on the Omnigul Strike… maybe I should try it out.

Abyss defiant is fun enough for solar/all burn Omnigul. As you're shooting it you know you could be doing better with another gun, but it's kinda fun to spray every 100 games or so.

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I have to assume the Hive Disruptor fix isn't working as intended, because Abyss Defiant does as much ectra damage per shot as Black Hammer - 204. Except much, much faster, obviously. If you have it set to Hip Fire rather than (the weirdly reduced DpS) Focus Fire, you do 2040 bonus damage per second (Against Lvl 32 Hive).

Assuming you're landing headshots, your total DpS against the 32 majors at Ir Yut goes up to about 3750 iirc. That's about the same as Black Hammer with Hive Disruptor. Not bad for a high RoF auto rifle.

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I did ponder whether Abyss Defiant has a place on the Omnigul Strike… maybe I should try it out.

The Wizard disruption perk is pretty cool. You suddenly stop getting pestered by them. I'm not entirely sure, but I think even Omnigul is affected by it, so maybe Ir Yut is too.

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I did ponder whether Abyss Defiant has a place on the Omnigul Strike… maybe I should try it out.

The Wizard disruption perk is pretty cool. You suddenly stop getting pestered by them. I'm not entirely sure, but I think even Omnigul is affected by it, so maybe Ir Yut is too.

Yeah that's what i mean. The strike would be way easier if the Wizards weren't nailing you.

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I did ponder whether Abyss Defiant has a place on the Omnigul Strike… maybe I should try it out.

The Wizard disruption perk is pretty cool. You suddenly stop getting pestered by them. I'm not entirely sure, but I think even Omnigul is affected by it, so maybe Ir Yut is too.

Yeah that's what i mean. The strike would be way easier if the Wizards weren't nailing you.

It works on them, but it's a random chance... maybe 5%. Sometimes I'll unload a whole clip and no confused Omnigul:(

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I've only notice it working when the shields are down, but almost always within the first 10 bullets.

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If it was a Solar or nil Burn Nightfall that I was going through, I'd definitely use my Wrath, as Solar Primaries have eluded me.

Oh, boy, you're in for a ride once you get an Abyss Defiant. That thing is so much better than the other Raid ARs it's not even funny.

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And this makes me cry.

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Let me put it this way: in PvE, auto rifles suck. We all know it.

I still have no clue what everyone's on about, with this.

They're, like, slightly worse than before.

Oh noooooooooooooooo.

They were already underpowered, and the nerf made them very ineffective during high-level PvE combat. A good hand cannon or scout rifle downs most enemies in half the time.

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In PVP, Auto Rifles are as good as anything else if you can't reliably get head shots. They only lose out to other weapons due to headshot multipliers.

In PVE, it isn't so much that they do less damage. Arguably they are only 4 points less per bullet then pulse rifles which are the new hotness. It is that in PVE, head shots are much easier to come by and the headshot damage per bullet is an AR's weakest stat. It takes 3 bullets to match one Hand Cannon or Scout Rifle headshot. It's harder to land those three head shots, it takes roughly half a second of sustained fire.

Looking at what I can find on PVE and weapon DPS, the auto rifles as a group are on the low end of the spectrum, but not by much. Given that the class in general has higher reload speeds and larger mags, they are far more forgiving to use. They just don't reward skilled use as much as SR/HCs do. So players will gravitate towards the SR/HCs as they become more skilled. That doesn't make the ARs bad as a class, just different. I've taken the Abyss Defiant and Necrochasms through dailies, weeklies and nightfalls. They can do the job and have a high up tempo.

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This is classic bungie. They were one of the first (if not the first) to make you make "hard choices" in regards to weapons you take with you. This was one of the big things for the original halo. You could only have a primary and secondary weapon, and passed up a ton of things as you went through. I don't think they mind too much making you pick and choose a little.

I think they will be upping vault space, but if you've got 30 guns on 3 characters and a full weapons vault, you maybe need to take a hard look at what weapons you want to keep vs what weapons you want to collect.

I'm with cruel. My poor hunter, for example, has a bunch of weapons, probably 6-8 in each slot. But they are only passably "good enough" most of the time, rather than what I would prefer to be using.

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I don't recall saying I wanted to USE all these weapons. I just want to HAVE them. FOREVEEEEERRRRRRRR!

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I wish there were more hard choices. All this storage space just feeds my OCD tendencies.

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I currently have (on all 3 characters) - Starting white armour, VoG gear, CE gear, IB gear, one set of faction gear, PS4 Exclusive gear and every Exotic armour. Plus a few utility items here and there.

My Titan's Helmet collection is completely full. I actually have to start vaulting stuff now if I want any more Titan helmets. Same goes for Hunter Gauntlets. The only thing I have more than 2 spaces for on any character is shoes. Now there's going to be (presumably) a full set of PoE gear, and multiple(?) sets of ToO gear. Im definitely going to run out of space. Those badass PS4 exclusives will be the first casualties, because they can't be ascended. Then my faction gear? I guess I can re-buy it again some day :/

Weapon space is a nuisance, but Im very minimalist with my weapons. I have each character equipped with full VoG, CE or IB gear, and a few floating weapons like LDR or Crucible stuff like The Swarm, but the rest is Exotics. Even then, there's now 8 more Primaries to fit somewhere. 6 more Specials and 4 more Heavies. And that's just PoE and ToO, not any new Vendor gear. I can vault those and probably be okay, but I know a lot of folks have way more weapons than me and will struggle.

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All the time. Forever.

STOP LOOKING AT ME.

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All the time. Forever.

STOP LOOKING AT ME.

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Vault space is going to be a huge issue.

We are getting a ton more exotic and legendary weapons with HoW. Our old ones will be useful due to ascending. There already isn't enough vault space to hold the exotics (and I do not keep duplicates). Either I will have to throw out some weapons I like, or else just not use any new stuff.

I know! Think of the horror of a world in which everybody has a collection of guns that is different from everyone else's because it was created by tough personal choices the game forced them to make, instead of everyone just playing Pokemon and collecting them all?

Horror indeed!

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I know! Think of the horror of a world in which everybody has a collection of guns that is different from everyone else's because it was created by tough personal choices the game forced them to make, instead of everyone just playing Pokemon and collecting them all?

I'm not sure you understand my point.

I cannot make "tough personal choices" because I have no idea what challenges lie ahead in the future expansions, and thus don't know which guns will be good or fun to use. Likewise, I do not know what Bungie will decide to do with the weapon balance, so I don't know what will be good in the future.

Having no information, I can't make long term choices. Thus, keeping a lot of stuff.

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It's not rocket surgery. Keep your absolute favorites, keep something "decent" of each type you hope might be buffed to godlike status in the future. You don't have to be the very best, like no one ever was. Collecting them is not your real test, leveling them is not your cause.

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Hell, scrap everything you don't like as is right now. It's not like anything non-Exotic is really damn hard to get... Especially now with "re-roll all the things!"

I didn't keep a single shotgun up to the buff. Yes, even Invective. Now I have my two favorite shotguns already set.

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It's not rocket surgery.

Nope! It's Brain Science!

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I know! Think of the horror of a world in which everybody has a collection of guns that is different from everyone else's because it was created by tough personal choices the game forced them to make, instead of everyone just playing Pokemon and collecting them all?

I'm not sure you understand my point.

I cannot make "tough personal choices" because I have no idea what challenges lie ahead in the future expansions,

Yes, you can. You're saying you won't because you cannot min-max it in advance.

That is what MAKES it a tough choice. It is about your personal preference.

Frankly I'm more interested in choosing a selection of weapons that fits the kind of player I am and the kind of Guardian my characters are, rather than what's "best" because "best" in your terms boils down to DPS which boils down to collecting the most mcguffins in the least time, which I generally don't care about.

But hey, at least one of us is having fun, right?

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I know! Think of the horror of a world in which everybody has a collection of guns that is different from everyone else's because it was created by tough personal choices the game forced them to make, instead of everyone just playing Pokemon and collecting them all?

I'm not sure you understand my point.

I cannot make "tough personal choices" because I have no idea what challenges lie ahead in the future expansions,

Yes, you can. You're saying you won't because you cannot min-max it in advance.

That is what MAKES it a tough choice. It is about your personal preference.

Frankly I'm more interested in choosing a selection of weapons that fits the kind of player I am and the kind of Guardian my characters are, rather than what's "best" because "best" in your terms boils down to DPS which boils down to collecting the most mcguffins in the least time, which I generally don't care about.

But hey, at least one of us is having fun, right?

And what of experimentation? Do you want to throw out a good weapon just to experiment with one you think you might like? If guns weren't acquired randomly, none of this would be a problem at all.

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I feel unduly targeted by this conversation.

First attacks on auto rifles, and now things are getting racially charged.

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"Ooooh! You're my best friend in this world we must defend!"

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The Vault Problem (Destiny)

You already know they plan to increase space further...

You already know they plan to increase space further...

Eh, what use is there repeating that.

Eh, what use is there repeating that.

Eh, what use is there repeating that.

That's a good point too.

That's a good point too.

That's a good point too.