Believe I was the victim of crucible cheaters. (Destiny)

by TheeChaos @, Friday, May 29, 2015, 11:36 (3559 days ago)

I reported the people but I have recorded my vids as evidence. Is there anywhere to send this so that bungie can see?

Believe I was the victim of crucible cheaters.

by petetheduck, Friday, May 29, 2015, 11:57 (3559 days ago) @ TheeChaos

Post on the Bungie.net Help forum. Don't post gamertags/videos--you'll most likely be contacted directly by the Bungie.net people for that information so they can research. Just tell them what's up and that you have the info.

Post the video here?

by Monochron, Friday, May 29, 2015, 12:14 (3559 days ago) @ TheeChaos

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Don't.

by petetheduck, Friday, May 29, 2015, 12:23 (3559 days ago) @ Monochron

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Stop.

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Friday, May 29, 2015, 12:23 (3559 days ago) @ petetheduck

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Belieeeeving !

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, May 29, 2015, 12:25 (3559 days ago) @ iconicbanana

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End this now.

by Funkmon @, Friday, May 29, 2015, 12:27 (3559 days ago) @ Ragashingo

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Hold on to that feeeeeeeling!

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Friday, May 29, 2015, 12:28 (3559 days ago) @ Ragashingo

[image]

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Streetlight people.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Friday, May 29, 2015, 12:43 (3559 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

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ohhhh ohhhh oohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Friday, May 29, 2015, 13:29 (3559 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

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Don't.

by UnrealCh13f @, San Luis Obispo, CA, Friday, May 29, 2015, 20:31 (3559 days ago) @ Schedonnardus

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10 yard penalty: Did not post actual time of lyrics...

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, May 29, 2015, 13:12 (3559 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

[image] :)

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LOL

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Friday, May 29, 2015, 14:39 (3559 days ago) @ Ragashingo
edited by CruelLEGACEY, Friday, May 29, 2015, 15:10

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Post the video here?

by TheeChaos @, Friday, May 29, 2015, 13:27 (3559 days ago) @ Monochron

Can you access your videos from your PS via internet?

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No, but seriously, don't post it here.

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Friday, May 29, 2015, 13:28 (3559 days ago) @ TheeChaos

There's a reddit thread about this, do what this guy did:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/37m8bh/i_was_ip_booted_from_a_match_in_trials_of_osiris/

Obviously not to MS, but send it to bungie.

No, but seriously, don't post it here.

by Monochron, Friday, May 29, 2015, 16:38 (3559 days ago) @ iconicbanana

Just curious, why should he not post it for us to see? It isn't a forum rule is it? I'm curious to see what that kind of thing looks like.

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It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Friday, May 29, 2015, 16:54 (3559 days ago) @ Monochron

Just curious, why should he not post it for us to see? It isn't a forum rule is it? I'm curious to see what that kind of thing looks like.

It's pretty hard to not see gamertags/psnid's, and that's pretty close to doxing imo. I would like to think we're better than that. Let Bungie sort it out.

It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by Monochron, Friday, May 29, 2015, 17:10 (3559 days ago) @ iconicbanana

It's pretty hard to not see gamertags/psnid's, and that's pretty close to doxing imo.

I suppose. Gamertags/psnIDs are public labels though. We see them all the time in videos or streams or whatever. In fact, if we search his history we can use some guesswork to find the tags.

Maybe it isn't classy to out someone who is cheating, but I don't think it is close to doxing.

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It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, May 29, 2015, 17:37 (3559 days ago) @ Monochron

I think it's fine. Anybody that I see for sure cheat I will call out, in public. It's not like I'm trying to figure out who they really are, but I don't think saying "Avoid x, y, and z players if you can" is bad at all. Or posting a video of what they did.

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It would be fine if you were right.

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Friday, May 29, 2015, 17:54 (3559 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I think it's fine. Anybody that I see for sure cheat I will call out, in public. It's not like I'm trying to figure out who they really are, but I don't think saying "Avoid x, y, and z players if you can" is bad at all. Or posting a video of what they did.

But what if you aren't? What if the guy you think is lag switching is just lagging? I also don't find it similar to watching a cool video someone else made. This is impugning someone for something they might not actually be doing.

Which is why you should let Bungie handle it.

It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by petetheduck, Friday, May 29, 2015, 18:00 (3559 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I think it's fine. Anybody that I see for sure cheat I will call out, in public. It's not like I'm trying to figure out who they really are, but I don't think saying "Avoid x, y, and z players if you can" is bad at all. Or posting a video of what they did.

How does it have any benefit to the community whatsoever?

Are you honestly going to maintain a list of gamertags and reference it every time you use LFG to make sure you don't join naughty people?

Are you going to be able to do anything at all if you're matched against them in Crucible?

No. It is of no useful value to you. Furthermore, broadcasting that information does not result in any punishment. Directing it to the appropriate place--Bungie Help--can.

Meanwhile, people that are innocent can be harassed by posts that state as fact perceived (but not actual) cheating or outright lies.

In other words, I just played a game with Ragashingo and after doing PoE for like 4 hours we finally killed the last boss and he booted me so he could invite his friend to open the chest. I have a video, I'll upload it if anyone wants.

It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by Monochron, Friday, May 29, 2015, 18:36 (3559 days ago) @ petetheduck

How does it have any benefit to the community whatsoever?

.
.
.

In other words, I just played a game with Ragashingo and after doing PoE for like 4 hours we finally killed the last boss and he booted me so he could invite his friend to open the chest. I have a video, I'll upload it if anyone wants.

Here's the thing....YES I would totally want to see that video because I am very curious about the methods that he would have had to use to accomplish that. I'm not going to do much with the information but I would personally like to satisfy my curiosity. I'm not going to bug someone to post a video if they don't want to though.

I don't see posting videos of possible cheaters as potentially dangerous to those people. If nothing else peer review can give more perspective on what actually happened. If it looks similar to regular old lag I'm sure people would comment saying so.

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It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, May 29, 2015, 18:43 (3559 days ago) @ petetheduck
edited by Ragashingo, Friday, May 29, 2015, 18:46

I think it's fine. Anybody that I see for sure cheat I will call out, in public. It's not like I'm trying to figure out who they really are, but I don't think saying "Avoid x, y, and z players if you can" is bad at all. Or posting a video of what they did.


How does it have any benefit to the community whatsoever?

Are you honestly going to maintain a list of gamertags and reference it every time you use LFG to make sure you don't join naughty people?

I don't use LFG, so not an issue. It benefits the community by letting people see what true cheating looks like vs lag. It might also help the community by having the video seen by someone with the ability to do something about it.


Are you going to be able to do anything at all if you're matched against them in Crucible?

I would set them to an Avoided Player through Xbox Live and let it do the rest.


No. It is of no useful value to you. Furthermore, broadcasting that information does not result in any punishment. Directing it to the appropriate place--Bungie Help--can.

It does not ever result in punishment? Really now?


Meanwhile, people that are innocent can be harassed by posts that state as fact perceived (but not actual) cheating or outright lies.

I wouldn't frame the video that way. I would do something more like: "This looks really odd to me, this guy taking no rocket launcher damage multiple times in ToO. I used in game and in console tools to report him for cheating. What does it look like to the rest of you?


In other words, I just played a game with Ragashingo and after doing PoE for like 4 hours we finally killed the last boss and he booted me so he could invite his friend to open the chest. I have a video, I'll upload it if anyone wants.

???

I thought we were talking about someone who did have an actual video to back up their words. I'm not going to just throw out gamer tags with absolutely no proof. I'm not going to make up stores about someone. That's just dumb and dishonest, two things I am not. I will however name people who I think might have been cheating. I have in fact done so in the past and will continue to do so, and if I had video capability I'd use that too.

It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by petetheduck, Friday, May 29, 2015, 19:02 (3559 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I think it's fine. Anybody that I see for sure cheat I will call out, in public. It's not like I'm trying to figure out who they really are, but I don't

Are you going to be able to do anything at all if you're matched against them in Crucible?


I would set them to an Avoided Player through Xbox Live and let it do the rest.

Has that feature actually worked for you? I've had matchmaking put me back with people I've avoided.

No. It is of no useful value to you. Furthermore, broadcasting that information does not result in any punishment. Directing it to the appropriate place--Bungie Help--can.


It does not ever result in punishment? Really now?

HAS it ever?

Would you expect it to? More consistently than reporting to the proper places?

Ridiculous. You're not looking for official action, you're looking for public harassment against the player.

Meanwhile, people that are innocent can be harassed by posts that state as fact perceived (but not actual) cheating or outright lies.


I wouldn't frame the video that way. I would do something more like: "This looks really odd to me, this guy taking no rocket launcher damage multiple times in ToO. I used in game and in console tools to report him for cheating. What does it look like to the rest of you?


In other words, I just played a game with Ragashingo and after doing PoE for like 4 hours we finally killed the last boss and he booted me so he could invite his friend to open the chest. I have a video, I'll upload it if anyone wants.


???

I thought we were talking about someone who did have an actual video to back up their words. I'm not going to just throw out gamer tags with absolutely no proof. I'm not going to make up stores about someone. That's just dumb and dishonest, two things I am not. I will however name people who I think might have been cheating. I have in fact done so in the past and will continue to do so, and if I had video capability I'd use that too.

The damage is done when the post is made, not when the proof is established and verified. It might not impact a player as much on this community as it would on communities like Reddit, but that's a real thing. Internet "justice" has proven this time and time again. Innocent people get screwed with false information.

You can draw the line in a lot of places with various levels success, but the safest, most responsible place to draw the line is with zero tolerance for witchhunting.

The bad guys still get caught because the information goes to the proper people and the online community benefits from respect and lack of useless negativity.

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It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Friday, May 29, 2015, 19:04 (3559 days ago) @ petetheduck

The damage is done when the post is made, not when the proof is established and verified. It might not impact a player as much on this community as it would on communities like Reddit, but that's a real thing. Internet "justice" has proven this time and time again. Innocent people get screwed with false information.

Which is why some subreddits have rules against internet vigilantism. Posting the video would get you banned on the destiny sub.

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It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, May 29, 2015, 19:49 (3559 days ago) @ iconicbanana

So where is that line drawn? Previously around here I talked about some guy named Batman (with some numbers or whatnot on the end of his gamertag) who was laggy as hell to the point he just kinda appeared (like Batman). Should I be banned from posting a factual video of lag? Should I be banned if I just talk about the lag? If yes for cheating why no for something that happens far more often and affects far more players? How about if I post a video of someone being a jerk and standing in front of me while I try to snipe? Should I be banned for that? Etc.

Should we never try and avoid people who don't follow the rules one way or the other? Is the only acceptable punishment for being a jerk or cheating or whatever removal from the entire game by Bungie? That seems way too rigid! Non-bannable actions should have consequences too.

Basically, zero tolerance is dumb and assigning the worst motives to people, even in a debate, is too.

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It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Friday, May 29, 2015, 19:55 (3559 days ago) @ Ragashingo
edited by iconicbanana, Friday, May 29, 2015, 19:59

So where is that line drawn? Previously around here I talked about some guy named Batman (with some numbers or whatnot on the end of his gamertag) who was laggy as hell to the point he just kinda appeared (like Batman). Should I be banned from posting a factual video of lag? Should I be banned if I just talk about the lag? If yes for cheating why no for something that happens far more often and affects far more players? How about if I post a video of someone being a jerk and standing in front of me while I try to snipe? Should I be banned for that? Etc.

Basically, zero tolerance is dumb and assigning the worst motives to people, even in a debate, is too.

There's a certain lack of agency to just lagging versus intentionally cheating, and I think that's the point here. I've seen you lag, for instance, and I've seen myself lag as well. I don't blame people for lagging; if anything, I find it mildly entertaining; it's nobodies fault, for the most part, and it's something we all have to deal with from time to time because of the realities of online play.

Insinuating that someone is exploiting lag intentionally is a completely different matter. You probably wouldn't mind if I mentioned you had been lagging in a post-game write up here on the forum ("man, raga was lagging like a fiend last night"), but you'd no doubt feel very differently if I accused you of introducing that lag for your own advantage ("I swear raga can lag on demand *nudgenudgewinkwinksaynomore*"). I imagine you'd be especially upset if you simply had some lag, and I accused you of something you didn't do.

See the difference? (And of course, a disclaimer, no, you don't lag switch, these are just thought experiments)

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It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, May 29, 2015, 20:13 (3559 days ago) @ iconicbanana

So where is that line drawn? Previously around here I talked about some guy named Batman (with some numbers or whatnot on the end of his gamertag) who was laggy as hell to the point he just kinda appeared (like Batman). Should I be banned from posting a factual video of lag? Should I be banned if I just talk about the lag? If yes for cheating why no for something that happens far more often and affects far more players? How about if I post a video of someone being a jerk and standing in front of me while I try to snipe? Should I be banned for that? Etc.

Basically, zero tolerance is dumb and assigning the worst motives to people, even in a debate, is too.


There's a certain lack of agency to just lagging versus intentionally cheating, and I think that's the point here. I've seen you lag, for instance, and I've seen myself lag as well. I don't blame people for lagging; if anything, I find it mildly entertaining; it's nobodies fault, for the most part, and it's something we all have to deal with from time to time because of the realities of online play.

Insinuating that someone is exploiting lag intentionally is a completely different matter. You probably wouldn't mind if I mentioned you had been lagging in a post-game write up here on the forum ("man, raga was lagging like a fiend last night"), but you'd no doubt feel very differently if I accused you of introducing that lag for your own advantage ("I swear raga can lag on demand *nudgenudgewinkwinksaynomore*"). I imagine you'd be especially upset if you simply had some lag, and I accused you of something you didn't do.

It all comes down to how you act when making the post. If you accuse someone of cheating but have no real proof, then sure, you aren't doing the right thing. I don't believe posting a video and saying "look at how this guy beat me in three straight games with nothing but a sniper rifle missing zero shots and only getting headshots (something that really happened to me), could this be cheating?" is the same thing. I think it's kinda outrageous to completely prevent people from talking about negative aspects of player behavior, even the behavior of specific players, as long as it is done in a responsible manner. (I would not approve of telling everyone to ban iconicbanna because he is a lousy no good cheater, for instance)


See the difference? (And of course, a disclaimer, no, you don't lag switch, these are just thought experiments)

No disclamer necessary. I get that you're trying to have an honest debate... :)

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It's been a long week. Let's hang this stuff up.

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Friday, May 29, 2015, 20:15 (3559 days ago) @ Ragashingo

See the difference? (And of course, a disclaimer, no, you don't lag switch, these are just thought experiments)


No disclamer necessary. I get that you're trying to have an honest debate... :)

Happy Friday everybody.

Go play some vidya.

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It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, May 29, 2015, 19:22 (3559 days ago) @ petetheduck

Has that feature actually worked for you? I've had matchmaking put me back with people I've avoided.

No idea. But I also don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.

No. It is of no useful value to you. Furthermore, broadcasting that information does not result in any punishment. Directing it to the appropriate place--Bungie Help--can.


It does not ever result in punishment? Really now?


HAS it ever?

Would you expect it to? More consistently than reporting to the proper places?

I would not just post a video. I would use all avaliable channels to report the player to the proper place. This isn't an either or situation.


Ridiculous. You're not looking for official action, you're looking for public harassment against the player.

And now we've moved out of friendly debate territory. If you want to discuss this maybe try coming in from an angle where the person you are debating isn't "looking for public harassment" or "witchhunting" or whatever other crap you want to make up. You make some good points below, but it's far overshadowed with the crap you're making up about people in this post and the last. (Re: Blaming someone for cheated without supplying any evidence in your PoE example)

It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by petetheduck, Friday, May 29, 2015, 20:00 (3559 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Has that feature actually worked for you? I've had matchmaking put me back with people I've avoided.


No idea. But I also don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.

No. It is of no useful value to you. Furthermore, broadcasting that information does not result in any punishment. Directing it to the appropriate place--Bungie Help--can.


It does not ever result in punishment? Really now?


HAS it ever?

Would you expect it to? More consistently than reporting to the proper places?


I would not just post a video. I would use all avaliable channels to report the player to the proper place. This isn't an either or situation.

What you're saying here is wrong. You use the proper channel to report to the proper place. Reporting anywhere else is not reporting to the proper place. There is a single place to report players to Bungie. It is not this forum, or any other community forum.


Ridiculous. You're not looking for official action, you're looking for public harassment against the player.


And now we've moved out of friendly debate territory. If you want to discuss this maybe try coming in from an angle where the person you are debating isn't "looking for public harassment" or "witchhunting" or whatever other crap you want to make up. You make some good points below, but it's far overshadowed with the crap you're making up about people in this post and the last. (Re: Blaming someone for cheated without supplying any evidence in your PoE example)

Yeah no, I'm really not wanting to discuss this. I refer to it as witchhunting because that is what it is referred to as. I didn't choose that to be especially offensive, I chose it to be accurately descriptive.

I accept your acceptance of my other points. If you want to try to convince me that witchhunting accomplishes anything positive, to you personally or the community as a whole, go right ahead.

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It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, May 29, 2015, 20:07 (3559 days ago) @ petetheduck

Your defining the term as a negative and assigning negative emotions to every single person that might post a video for others to see some supposed cheating is completely ridiculous. If I ever post a video or mention a player by name I have no intention of people harassing them, except I do, according to you.

That is wrong.

I reject your definitions completely and as such there is nothing more for us to discuss.

It's bad form, regardless of where you go on the tubes.

by petetheduck, Friday, May 29, 2015, 20:10 (3559 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Your defining the term as a negative and assigning negative emotions to every single person that might post a video for others to see some supposed cheating is completely ridiculous. If I ever post a video or mention a player by name I have no intention of people harassing them, except I do, according to you.

That is wrong.

I reject your definitions completely and as such there is nothing more for us to discuss.

Your intentions aren't negative yet you completely avoid showing how they are positive?

Because they aren't.

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Thanks for making me out as a completely evil person.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, May 29, 2015, 20:14 (3559 days ago) @ petetheduck
edited by Ragashingo, Friday, May 29, 2015, 20:21

Your inability to see any point of view other than your own is sickening. Especially when you start accusing people of things you don't have a prayer of backing up.

Thanks for making me out as a completely evil person.

by petetheduck, Friday, May 29, 2015, 20:37 (3559 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Your inability to see any point of view other than your own is sickening. Especially when you start accusing people of things you don't have a prayer of backing up.

I don't know how open minded you want me to be, but you need to at least give a reason to support your point of view.

I don't think you're evil. I don't actually have any negative opinion of you at all. I agree with zero tolerance policies on witchhunting. This isn't my forum, so maybe admins should step in at this point and settle not just this ..whatever this is, but all future whatevers this is by clarifying whether posting personal information of other people here is okay (also known on Destiny Reddit as witchhunting).

Not to but in to the argument but....

by Monochron, Friday, May 29, 2015, 21:09 (3559 days ago) @ petetheduck

I don't know how open minded you want me to be, but you need to at least give a reason to support your point of view.

He did give give plenty of reason to support his point of view. Maybe you don't agree with them but you shouldn't pretend like he hasn't.....

It benefits the community by letting people see what true cheating looks like vs lag.

It might also help the community by having the video seen by someone with the ability to do something about it.

I would not just post a video. I would use all avaliable channels to report the player to the proper place. This isn't an either or situation.

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Thanks for making me out as a completely evil person.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, May 29, 2015, 21:19 (3559 days ago) @ petetheduck

Your inability to see any point of view other than your own is sickening. Especially when you start accusing people of things you don't have a prayer of backing up.


I don't know how open minded you want me to be, but you need to at least give a reason to support your point of view.

Start with this: Debate the issue without assigning automatically bad terms (like witchhunting) to the actions in question. Its fine for you not to agree with an action, but when the only way you are willing to discuss it is as if its automatically bad, then there's not much room for honest debate. You're just building an unresponsive brick wall of negative terms that the other party in the debate does not agree with.

For instance, I think the term witchhunting has appropriate uses, but I strongly disagree that every video showing potential cheating amounts to witchhunting. Intention matters... except not to you apparently since you just label every video posted as bad. End of story. Zero tolerance. Ban them now.

As for posting reasons that support my view, how many times would you like me to do that? I said: "It benefits the community by letting people see what true cheating looks like vs lag. It might also help the community by having the video seen by someone with the ability to do something about it."

You didn't respond.

Is witchhunting a thing? Sure! But your defense of banning it jumped from made up examples of people outright lying (the PoE booting example that didn't even fit with what we were talking about), to accusing of me of looking to incite harassment (something I would never do), to deciding that your definitions are the only correct definitions (real open minded there), to you accuse people of only having negative intentions.

Just where the heck am I supposed to start if you won't respond to what I've said and everything you say is completely one sided and close minded?!


I don't think you're evil. I don't actually have any negative opinion of you at all.

You flat out said my intentions aren't (wouldn't be) positive if I ever posted a video showing cheating. What exactly does that make me? You may disagree with people who post something like that, but I think they can do so with good intentions or just no intentions. Sometimes we share things because they were curious, not because we want to see the other person harrassed and blackmailed and SWATTED. That you won't even acknowledge this is infuriating.

I agree with zero tolerance policies on witchhunting.

I don't agree with zero tolerance on anything. There are always edge cases and happenings not anticipated by zero tolerance rules which then all too often causes said zero tolerance to be applied in a brain dead manner. Having rules is fine, but allowing the possibility for exception is a must. Only a Sith deals in absolutes... and all that.

This isn't my forum, so maybe admins should step in at this point and settle not just this ..whatever this is, but all future whatevers this is by clarifying whether posting personal information of other people here is okay (also known on Destiny Reddit as witchhunting).

Until then, perhaps don't use some other place's definitions as absolutely concrete when you choose to engage someone in discussion? Debate the merits, don't just trot out someone else's definition and then stick your fingers in your ears. "Lalalala, your intentions are bad." isn't exactly good debate behavior.

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Thanks for making me out as a completely evil person.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, May 29, 2015, 22:39 (3559 days ago) @ Ragashingo
edited by Kermit, Friday, May 29, 2015, 23:10

Here's where I stand.

I don't agree that you, Raga, were wanting to incite public harassment, and Pete shouldn't have assumed the worst about you (That's a bad habit, Pete).

A better way to express his point is to say that you could be wrong about the accusation of cheating (which is kind of funny in that he was sure he was right about you) and you might be exposing an innocent person to abuse. Sometimes lag is just lag. Sometimes it's not. I think Bungie has ways of telling the difference, and that's why they're the best arbiter of guilt or innocence. I am also curious about what cheating looks like, but I seriously doubt it's something we can really know for sure is deliberate from within the game.

Speaking of public harassment, though, we game in what are essentially public spaces. If someone is harassing me online, verbally or through messages, I might be tempted to post a video, but less so than I might have been in years past. Why? Because there's a risk of the punishment going beyond what is deserved. That's why authorities should get the facts and act accordingly. The internet mob is real. Asshats have been humbled and lost jobs after showing themselves as asshats, and sometimes there's some good in that perhaps. People has learned the cost of being an asshat, but these days that cost can get out of hand. I want the guy who ridiculed me to become a better person and not ridicule people, but I don't want to ruin his life by making a video of him being stupid go viral.

Kerm

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Thanks for making me out as a completely evil person.

by Miguel Chavez, Saturday, May 30, 2015, 12:35 (3558 days ago) @ Kermit

Here's where I stand.

I don't agree that you, Raga, were wanting to incite public harassment, and Pete shouldn't have assumed the worst about you (That's a bad habit, Pete).

A better way to express his point is to say that you could be wrong about the accusation of cheating (which is kind of funny in that he was sure he was right about you) and you might be exposing an innocent person to abuse. Sometimes lag is just lag. Sometimes it's not. I think Bungie has ways of telling the difference, and that's why they're the best arbiter of guilt or innocence. I am also curious about what cheating looks like, but I seriously doubt it's something we can really know for sure is deliberate from within the game.

Speaking of public harassment, though, we game in what are essentially public spaces. If someone is harassing me online, verbally or through messages, I might be tempted to post a video, but less so than I might have been in years past. Why? Because there's a risk of the punishment going beyond what is deserved. That's why authorities should get the facts and act accordingly. The internet mob is real. Asshats have been humbled and lost jobs after showing themselves as asshats, and sometimes there's some good in that perhaps. People has learned the cost of being an asshat, but these days that cost can get out of hand. I want the guy who ridiculed me to become a better person and not ridicule people, but I don't want to ruin his life by making a video of him being stupid go viral.

Kerm

Aren't we just saying, "Air on the side of caution"? (Malagate will dig the inside joke based on his FB post today)

The thing is, I hear a *million* times automatic "OMG LAG" "CHEATZ!" whenever my side is losing. I'll *only* say lag when I look at the roster lineup and see yellow or red bars - because at least there's *some* evidence to support it. I've been in matches where the opposing team has one guy in the red, and he's going around in a pike just picking us off. The inclination is to say: "Ah! I found a cheater - purposely using his lag with a fast vehicle to take advantage and rack up points for his team." But guess what, that's *still* supposition. Someone naive to how lag works could simply be playing the game and be impressed with him (or her) self and their sudden spot of luck massacring us over and over again.

Per usual I find it mainly something brought up on yourself, as a player - if you readily perceive players 'out to get you' in any way possible, you're going to have a frustrating time dealing with the vagaries of continental (or intra-continental) internet gameplay at 30/60 FPS.

Everyone just chill and smoke some weed.

- M

p.s I agree w/ Raga that zero tolerance positions are innately stupid, I also agree with Pete that if the point is to *really* persecute someone, the best and only method is to send evidence to the folks in charge. Whether the video can have a side benefit after the fact (or even before the fact) is where there is wiggle room, I believe. And as I think has been discussed, much of the weight goes to *intention*.

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^^^This

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Saturday, May 30, 2015, 12:43 (3558 days ago) @ Miguel Chavez

Everyone just chill and smoke some weed.

Avatar

Thanks for making me out as a completely evil person.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Saturday, May 30, 2015, 15:33 (3558 days ago) @ Miguel Chavez

Here's where I stand.

I don't agree that you, Raga, were wanting to incite public harassment, and Pete shouldn't have assumed the worst about you (That's a bad habit, Pete).

A better way to express his point is to say that you could be wrong about the accusation of cheating (which is kind of funny in that he was sure he was right about you) and you might be exposing an innocent person to abuse. Sometimes lag is just lag. Sometimes it's not. I think Bungie has ways of telling the difference, and that's why they're the best arbiter of guilt or innocence. I am also curious about what cheating looks like, but I seriously doubt it's something we can really know for sure is deliberate from within the game.

Speaking of public harassment, though, we game in what are essentially public spaces. If someone is harassing me online, verbally or through messages, I might be tempted to post a video, but less so than I might have been in years past. Why? Because there's a risk of the punishment going beyond what is deserved. That's why authorities should get the facts and act accordingly. The internet mob is real. Asshats have been humbled and lost jobs after showing themselves as asshats, and sometimes there's some good in that perhaps. People has learned the cost of being an asshat, but these days that cost can get out of hand. I want the guy who ridiculed me to become a better person and not ridicule people, but I don't want to ruin his life by making a video of him being stupid go viral.

Kerm


Aren't we just saying, "Air on the side of caution"? (Malagate will dig the inside joke based on his FB post today)

The thing is, I hear a *million* times automatic "OMG LAG" "CHEATZ!" whenever my side is losing. I'll *only* say lag when I look at the roster lineup and see yellow or red bars - because at least there's *some* evidence to support it. I've been in matches where the opposing team has one guy in the red, and he's going around in a pike just picking us off. The inclination is to say: "Ah! I found a cheater - purposely using his lag with a fast vehicle to take advantage and rack up points for his team." But guess what, that's *still* supposition. Someone naive to how lag works could simply be playing the game and be impressed with him (or her) self and their sudden spot of luck massacring us over and over again.

Per usual I find it mainly something brought up on yourself, as a player - if you readily perceive players 'out to get you' in any way possible, you're going to have a frustrating time dealing with the vagaries of continental (or intra-continental) internet gameplay at 30/60 FPS.

Everyone just chill and smoke some weed.

- M

p.s I agree w/ Raga that zero tolerance positions are innately stupid, I also agree with Pete that if the point is to *really* persecute someone, the best and only method is to send evidence to the folks in charge. Whether the video can have a side benefit after the fact (or even before the fact) is where there is wiggle room, I believe. And as I think has been discussed, much of the weight goes to *intention*.

You set it better than I.

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jest mai too sense

by Miguel Chavez, Saturday, May 30, 2015, 18:05 (3558 days ago) @ Kermit

You set it better than I.

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May I ask why you think that?

by Spec ops Grunt @, Broklahoma, Saturday, May 30, 2015, 15:49 (3558 days ago) @ TheeChaos

My team and I thought someone was cheating last night until he crumbled under pressure. He also had a final round efrideets spear which might have had to do with us thinking he was too good

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