House of Wolves is largely better than Dark Below, except possibly for the end game.

Once again, Bungie has used my ideas by eliminating damage and defense upgrade nodes. This is a great decision, and everything is better now. No downsides. Slowly the tedium of upgrading gear is going away, and perhaps one day will be eliminated altogether (as well as RNG loot).

The story missions are getting better all the time, but still have plenty of room to grow. Especially with a more story heavy expansion, the missions should be even more involved, long, and complex. They should blow Halo missions out of the water, but don't. I understand why, yet given the terrible constraints Bungie has placed on themselves these missions were the best yet, at least in my opinion. Yet, there could have been even more creativity. The VoG platforms make an appearance in the final mission, but are not utilized at all except for a set piece. I was sure that leaping across them was a reminder of how they work, and following they'd play a role in the fight. Maybe cover appears and disappears. Maybe the ground vanishes occasionally and you have to rotate around the arena fighting. But no, that would have been too cool.

Why do the story missions top out at 32? Why can't I select them all at level 35 for more difficulty? Again Halo had it right: selectable difficulty. Story missions should have level 30 enemies but have 4 difficulty levels. Simple as that. Even though they were decently fun, they were also rather easy, and I selected 32. I'm not so keen on handicapping myself just to have a challenge.

Bungie needs to up their storytelling yesterday. Here, we have a decent idea for a story, but it's not really given the proper care it deserves. It's baffling. Bungie has done it with Halo, and they should be able to do it with Destiny. Comet is do or die. If they don't get their act together and give us a decent story that is also told well, then they've lost.

I think it's safe to say that Peter Dinklage is either unwilling or unable to come back. Why else would a main character be essentially absent in the expansions? And why should he come back? He'd have been squandered here like he was in the base game. He can just do Game of Thrones and get paid more, make a better product, and win a few emmys.

I find it amusing that the new go to end game activity is PvP related. From what I've played, Trials of Osiris is not only a blast, but easily the best and most fun way to earn good gear and etheric light. The elimination game type is tough and tense, but in a good way. I am eager to see how the metagame changes with each map rotation, and I have a feeling your team will have to change it up a bit every week. I also feel a little bit sad when you beat a team and you see that you knock them out of their ticket, but such is the game type! The lighthouse was a wonderful surprise, and the excitement and wonder I felt going there the first time was something Destiny hasn't given me in a while. And the gear is great.

Unfortunately, Prison of Elders is a huge miss, just as I suspected. It's not even close to a raid substitute. You can toss all your ingredients in the pot and hope for the best, or you can carefully mix, measure, and purposely create a unique and wonderful combination of flavors. Who cares if it's different every time? None of the challenges even come close to what we'd face in a raid. It's not as challenging as a raid, nor as difficult. Not even close. Before the fifth round, it's all essentially the same regardless of the modifiers, and the round 5 boss and Skolas are just pushovers, as far as I've experienced.

Here you actually have a cool boss mechanic, which can be defeated and bypassed not by cheese, but by 3 players with Gjallarhorns (or 4th Horsemans and Thunderlords with arc burn). When you can just shoot the boss with everything you've got and he dies in 45 seconds, you have failed. You have to deal with and figure out Atheon's mechanics. You have to deal with and figure out Crota's mechanics. But Skolas? Nope, just shoot him a lot. It's so massively disappointing that concentrating your fire in an intense burst is enough to take out the Arena's toughest boss.

Likewise, the treasure keys are a huge mess. Final bosses should drop treasure keys 100% of the time on 34 and 35. It's utterly baffling why this isn't the case. Finding keys in the wild should be a bonus. What did I get for beating Skolas the first week? Absolutely nothing because I didn't have a key. The gear is also bad. The Queen's gear is just legendary gear. I have awesome legendary gear already, and not only that, but the perks don't all have tradeoffs on them. Can you get elemental primaries from PoE? If not, it's a big waste of time since it sure isn't that fun for its own sake. That's the irony. What good is your end game, if the best part of it is PvP where elemental damage doesn't matter? The elemental primaries were good before because the rock in PvE. But do you think I'm going to want to play PoE 9 times a week? No thanks.

Huge miss for the PvP end game, huge hit for the PvP end game, and a steadily rising quality to the story missions.

- No text -

Probably meant to say that they had similar ideas for this expansion to his and used them.

Probably meant to say that they had similar ideas for this expansion to his and used them.

You're right. I should have considered his track record of humility. Oh wait...

House of Wolves is largely better than Dark Below, except possibly for the end game.

The story missions are getting better all the time, but still have plenty of room to grow.

I find it amusing that the new go to end game activity is PvP related. From what I've played, Trials of Osiris is not only a blast, but easily the best and most fun way to earn good gear and etheric light. The elimination game type is tough and tense, but in a good way.

Here you actually have a cool boss mechanic, which can be defeated and bypassed not by cheese, but by 3 players with Gjallarhorns (or 4th Horsemans and Thunderlords with arc burn). When you can just shoot the boss with everything you've got and he dies in 45 seconds, you have failed. You have to deal with and figure out Atheon's mechanics. You have to deal with and figure out Crota's mechanics. But Skolas? Nope, just shoot him a lot. It's so massively disappointing that concentrating your fire in an intense burst is enough to take out the Arena's toughest boss.

Likewise, the treasure keys are a huge mess. Final bosses should drop treasure keys 100% of the time on 34 and 35. It's utterly baffling why this isn't the case. Finding keys in the wild should be a bonus. What did I get for beating Skolas the first week? Absolutely nothing because I didn't have a key. The gear is also bad. The Queen's gear is just legendary gear. I have awesome legendary gear already, and not only that, but the perks don't all have tradeoffs on them. Can you get elemental primaries from PoE? If not, it's a big waste of time since it sure isn't that fun for its own sake. That's the irony. What good is your end game, if the best part of it is PvP where elemental damage doesn't matter? The elemental primaries were good before because the rock in PvE. But do you think I'm going to want to play PoE 9 times a week? No thanks.

Huge miss for the PvP end game, huge hit for the PvP end game, and a steadily rising quality to the story missions.

The story stuff barely registered with me. I actually had to think hard about what HoW story even was. We've been marinating in the nonexistent for so long that the barely existent seems glorious. Yikes.

Gear, loot, drop, gear, loot, drop, RNG, RNG, loot, gear. This is all we talk about.

First, I hate ToO with every fiber of my being. I understand that the best of the best will enjoy this; after the top of the mountain, everyone needs to move to the next peak. However, Destiny's Crucible offering already catered to the hardcore. There is essentially nothing to do in Crucible except kill other players in the same 3 or 4 ways.

So, Bungie...doubled down? They distilled the kill/die experience into it's purest form; literally kill or die and the round is over in 20 seconds. It's slayer porn, basically. Don't have an uber-primary? Good fucking luck to you. Thorn, Mythoclast...Mythoclast, Thorn. Sniper. Holy balls, somebody please stab my eyes out.

It's a funny choice for Bungie - I was hoping that they might have invested some time into opening up Crucible in other ways, though I must admit, I have no ideas what those other ways might be. Maybe Crucible is just limited to what it is?

Regarding PoE...I appreciate the effort, but it just doesn't add anything new. The PoE designers hands are tied in some ways; Ghallerhorns and Horseman and whatever else are a given. They exist, and people pursue them with abandon. Why? Because they are simply better than anything else. Forget strategy, forget skill, forget perseverance. Just load your super weapon and pull the trigger.

I think this may be why I'm having a hard time enjoying PoE. I love killing bad guys, and I love to survive. But it's hard to feel good about my effort when I can watch people breeze through shit just because they have these few be-all-end-all weapons. Here is an opportunity missed - I would have loved a survival mode in which Guardians just survived as long as possible. But they couldn't do that because they had to have a specific end to the event. Why? So they could give loot. Because people will not play without the promise of loot? Why did I play ODST: Firefight for so long?

Weird. We're in a weird place with Destiny. Or, maybe just I am.

I guess I'd say that PoE is good in principle and in (general) execution, but is undercut (IMO) because of super weapons. In many ways, ToO is the same. I'm having a hard time trying to understand my motivation for playing. If super weapons are the key to success, and they are randomly given, what is my motivation again?

- No text -

Despite the tone of the message.

House of Wolves is largely better than Dark Below, except possibly for the end game.

The story missions are getting better all the time, but still have plenty of room to grow.

I find it amusing that the new go to end game activity is PvP related. From what I've played, Trials of Osiris is not only a blast, but easily the best and most fun way to earn good gear and etheric light. The elimination game type is tough and tense, but in a good way.

Here you actually have a cool boss mechanic, which can be defeated and bypassed not by cheese, but by 3 players with Gjallarhorns (or 4th Horsemans and Thunderlords with arc burn). When you can just shoot the boss with everything you've got and he dies in 45 seconds, you have failed. You have to deal with and figure out Atheon's mechanics. You have to deal with and figure out Crota's mechanics. But Skolas? Nope, just shoot him a lot. It's so massively disappointing that concentrating your fire in an intense burst is enough to take out the Arena's toughest boss.

Likewise, the treasure keys are a huge mess. Final bosses should drop treasure keys 100% of the time on 34 and 35. It's utterly baffling why this isn't the case. Finding keys in the wild should be a bonus. What did I get for beating Skolas the first week? Absolutely nothing because I didn't have a key. The gear is also bad. The Queen's gear is just legendary gear. I have awesome legendary gear already, and not only that, but the perks don't all have tradeoffs on them. Can you get elemental primaries from PoE? If not, it's a big waste of time since it sure isn't that fun for its own sake. That's the irony. What good is your end game, if the best part of it is PvP where elemental damage doesn't matter? The elemental primaries were good before because the rock in PvE. But do you think I'm going to want to play PoE 9 times a week? No thanks.

Huge miss for the PvP end game, huge hit for the PvP end game, and a steadily rising quality to the story missions.

The story stuff barely registered with me. I actually had to think hard about what HoW story even was. We've been marinating in the nonexistent for so long that the barely existent seems glorious. Yikes.

Gear, loot, drop, gear, loot, drop, RNG, RNG, loot, gear. This is all we talk about.

First, I hate ToO with every fiber of my being. I understand that the best of the best will enjoy this; after the top of the mountain, everyone needs to move to the next peak. However, Destiny's Crucible offering already catered to the hardcore. There is essentially nothing to do in Crucible except kill other players in the same 3 or 4 ways.

So, Bungie...doubled down? They distilled the kill/die experience into it's purest form; literally kill or die and the round is over in 20 seconds. It's slayer porn, basically. Don't have an uber-primary? Good fucking luck to you. Thorn, Mythoclast...Mythoclast, Thorn. Sniper. Holy balls, somebody please stab my eyes out.

It's a funny choice for Bungie - I was hoping that they might have invested some time into opening up Crucible in other ways, though I must admit, I have no ideas what those other ways might be. Maybe Crucible is just limited to what it is?

Regarding PoE...I appreciate the effort, but it just doesn't add anything new. The PoE designers hands are tied in some ways; Ghallerhorns and Horseman and whatever else are a given. They exist, and people pursue them with abandon. Why? Because they are simply better than anything else. Forget strategy, forget skill, forget perseverance. Just load your super weapon and pull the trigger.

I think this may be why I'm having a hard time enjoying PoE. I love killing bad guys, and I love to survive. But it's hard to feel good about my effort when I can watch people breeze through shit just because they have these few be-all-end-all weapons. Here is an opportunity missed - I would have loved a survival mode in which Guardians just survived as long as possible. But they couldn't do that because they had to have a specific end to the event. Why? So they could give loot. Because people will not play without the promise of loot? Why did I play ODST: Firefight for so long?

Weird. We're in a weird place with Destiny. Or, maybe just I am.

I guess I'd say that PoE is good in principle and in (general) execution, but is undercut (IMO) because of super weapons. In many ways, ToO is the same. I'm having a hard time trying to understand my motivation for playing. If super weapons are the key to success, and they are randomly given, what is my motivation again?

I hear you, brother. Because I have a few of those superweapons on one platform but not the other, I see a bit of both sides (although the Lighthouse is out of my reach without a truckload of luck).

It's disheartening to hear how easy this bounty or this boss is to some. It's a presumption to think it's easy for everyone. I'd like to get better at Crucible, but I don't know if it's possible, and the weapon differential makes it even less possible.

I'm all for winners and losers because without them you don't have meaningful competition. I just wish I didn't feel that the path to being a winner is getting steeper all the time.

I like HoWs quite a bit, but whenever I play on the PS4 in particular, I feel disadvantaged. It's good that I have friends there who don't seem to care (yet) that my skills or weapons (except for Thunderlord) are subpar. One drawback of all the high-stakes three-man activities is that I'm hesitant to join scheduled events now in that it feels like there's no room for a weak link.

I love killing bad guys, and I love to survive. But it's hard to feel good about my effort when I can watch people breeze through shit just because they have these few be-all-end-all weapons.

If it makes you feel any better, simply using the best weapons alone isn't enough. I imagine it is certainly easier but 3 of us tried last night to take down The Forever Eater with nothing but Gjallarhorn spam and just couldn't bring all the pieces together. And that Horseman strat for Skolas? Look at Korny's post about how long it took them to actually make that work. I have seen full runs of people beating Skolas the "normal" way in less time than it took them to pull off the Horseman way. That takes a lot of coordination and luck.

- No text -

A few things:

Once again, Bungie has used my ideas...

Uh huh. Who cares what you meant, it's what you say that counts. We get it, you can't help but be the center of attention. Good job.

They should blow Halo missions out of the water, but don't.

Halo has some of the best FPS levels in the history of ever so just saying that they should be topped as if its easy is a bit silly. That said, I too would like to see longer, more involved, more story heavy levels. I did like the increased narration in House of Wolves though.

Comet is do or die.

Because no previous Bungie series has had a massive leap in story quality from the first game to the second?? To me, Halo 1 has a great, solid, simple story, but Halo 2 brought the best depth and characterization and points of view that the Halo series have ever seen. How about we stop making these silly declarations that don't mean a darn thing. Destiny sold massively well. I'm not hearing of any massive player base drop off. So is it really do or die? No, probably not.

After all, you've complained about Destiny for longer than it has existed, yet you are still playing!

From what I've played, Trials of Osiris is not only a blast, but easily the best and most fun way to earn good gear and etheric light.

Not sayin' you're wrong for you here, but do keep it in perspective that for some of us ToO is the worst way to earn high level rewards and least fun part of the entire game.

Final bosses should drop treasure keys 100% of the time on 34 and 35.

Agreed. And I wouldn't mind seeing the new exotic bounty and treasure keys be a thing even on the 32. I found out last week it's not so easy to even organize three people to run a 32 so I would like to at least have a hope of getting something better than the standard legendaries out of it.

All in all, not a bad mini-review, except for you being you at the beginning. :)

After all, you've complained about Destiny for longer than it has existed, yet you are still playing!

OK I lied, I read about one paragraph in, then it was all over. Poor Cody.

Once again, Bungie has used my ideas by eliminating damage and defense upgrade nodes.

I suppose this is technically true, taken in a certain context.

This is a great decision, and everything is better now. No downsides. Slowly the tedium of upgrading gear is going away, and perhaps one day will be eliminated altogether (as well as RNG loot).

I have to agree. The upgrade system on the new gear is much less tedious. And aside from having less nodes to worry about, the perks seem to require much less planetary materials to purchase - which, combined with the huge amount of mats I now seem to get from everything, has made it very easy to always have the required stuff.

The story missions are getting better all the time, but still have plenty of room to grow. Especially with a more story heavy expansion, the missions should be even more involved, long, and complex. They should blow Halo missions out of the water, but don't. I understand why, yet given the terrible constraints Bungie has placed on themselves these missions were the best yet, at least in my opinion. Yet, there could have been even more creativity. The VoG platforms make an appearance in the final mission, but are not utilized at all except for a set piece. I was sure that leaping across them was a reminder of how they work, and following they'd play a role in the fight. Maybe cover appears and disappears. Maybe the ground vanishes occasionally and you have to rotate around the arena fighting. But no, that would have been too cool.

Again, I largely agree. The story missions in HoW were the best so far, at least to my eyes. I actually felt like I understood what I was doing and why, the whole way through. This was something I could see hinted at in TDB but didn't seem to really come together until HoW.

Why do the story missions top out at 32? Why can't I select them all at level 35 for more difficulty? Again Halo had it right: selectable difficulty. Story missions should have level 30 enemies but have 4 difficulty levels. Simple as that. Even though they were decently fun, they were also rather easy, and I selected 32. I'm not so keen on handicapping myself just to have a challenge.

Yeah, I don't really understand this either. It seems like it IS possible to have enemies in the story missions at higher levels than the normal difficulty selectors - after all, it happens on Daily Story missions. I don't get why we can't select any level right up to whatever the current maximum is.

I think it's safe to say that Peter Dinklage is either unwilling or unable to come back. Why else would a main character be essentially absent in the expansions? And why should he come back? He'd have been squandered here like he was in the base game. He can just do Game of Thrones and get paid more, make a better product, and win a few emmys.

There is a 3rd possibility - Bungie may not have asked him back. It seems like a possibility given the, shall we say, lukewarm community reception to Dinklebot.

I find it amusing that the new go to end game activity is PvP related. From what I've played, Trials of Osiris is not only a blast, but easily the best and most fun way to earn good gear and etheric light. The elimination game type is tough and tense, but in a good way. I am eager to see how the metagame changes with each map rotation, and I have a feeling your team will have to change it up a bit every week. I also feel a little bit sad when you beat a team and you see that you knock them out of their ticket, but such is the game type! The lighthouse was a wonderful surprise, and the excitement and wonder I felt going there the first time was something Destiny hasn't given me in a while. And the gear is great.

I'm mostly just annoyed that Trials seems to be a better way to earn etheric light than anything available in the PvE game. Once I have a few characters leveled up PoE will be an option, but given my CURRENT lack of etheric light, I'm finding it a very slow process to actually do so.

I don't really have much to say about the rest.

After all, you've complained about Destiny for longer than it has existed, yet you are still playing!

Must we go through this again?

1. It is getting better and better but is not where it should be just yet.
2. Yes there are stupid aspects to the game.
3. There are tons of wonderful aspects to the game.

Hence, I can complain yet still enjoy a lot of it.

Once again, Bungie has used my ideas

It's okay, Korny, don't get mad at him, he's just stupid. It's not his fault. It's the lack of Hawkmoon speaking.

The story missions are getting better all the time, but still have plenty of room to grow. Especially with a more story heavy expansion, the missions should be even more involved, long, and complex. They should blow Halo missions out of the water, but don't. I understand why, yet given the terrible constraints Bungie has placed on themselves these missions were the best yet, at least in my opinion. Yet, there could have been even more creativity. The VoG platforms make an appearance in the final mission, but are not utilized at all except for a set piece. I was sure that leaping across them was a reminder of how they work, and following they'd play a role in the fight. Maybe cover appears and disappears. Maybe the ground vanishes occasionally and you have to rotate around the arena fighting. But no, that would have been too cool.

Would have been very cool, but frustrating for the lesser-skilled folks, which are probably the majority of Destiny folks. Then again, if Cody can do it...

Why do the story missions top out at 32? Why can't I select them all at level 35 for more difficulty? Again Halo had it right: selectable difficulty. Story missions should have level 30 enemies but have 4 difficulty levels. Simple as that. Even though they were decently fun, they were also rather easy, and I selected 32. I'm not so keen on handicapping myself just to have a challenge.

"I'm not so keen on handicapping myself just to have a challenge." So... So what were the skulls in the Halo games?
I've played missions at a higher level than my own, and had to approach them differently. I've played missions with weapon types different to the ones I normally use, and had to approach them differently. Your problem is that you have this mentality that the game should cater to YOU and YOUR loadout by providing experiences tailored to YOUR playstyle. "Bungie, this is too easy! Make it harder, but not harder because that's not fun! Also, I want rewards, because otherwise what's the point of having fun?"

Bungie needs to up their storytelling yesterday. Here, we have a decent idea for a story, but it's not really given the proper care it deserves. It's baffling. Bungie has done it with Halo, and they should be able to do it with Destiny. Comet is do or die. If they don't get their act together and give us a decent story that is also told well, then they've lost.

They've lost what? Destiny's selling well and bringing people back. How can you give a DLC a thumbs up and then say "next time's your last chance"? Bizarro world.

I think it's safe to say that Peter Dinklage is either unwilling or unable to come back. Why else would a main character be essentially absent in the expansions? And why should he come back? He'd have been squandered here like he was in the base game. He can just do Game of Thrones and get paid more, make a better product, and win a few emmys.

So it goes for any celebrity voice actor in any game. Heck, Bungie is building a history of losing quality voice actors (Michael Wincott, anyone?).

I find it amusing that the new go to end game activity is PvP related. From what I've played, Trials of Osiris is not only a blast, but easily the best and most fun way to earn good gear and etheric light. The elimination game type is tough and tense, but in a good way. I am eager to see how the metagame changes with each map rotation, and I have a feeling your team will have to change it up a bit every week. I also feel a little bit sad when you beat a team and you see that you knock them out of their ticket, but such is the game type! The lighthouse was a wonderful surprise, and the excitement and wonder I felt going there the first time was something Destiny hasn't given me in a while. And the gear is great.

Yes, it's great that PvP gets some end-game goals. Bungie has been far more successful with ToO than many other games have ever been with their "top-tier" PvP experiences (Reach's Arena, CoD's Seasons, Whatever crap 343 tried with the MCC).

Unfortunately, Prison of Elders is a huge miss, just as I suspected. It's not even close to a raid substitute. You can toss all your ingredients in the pot and hope for the best, or you can carefully mix, measure, and purposely create a unique and wonderful combination of flavors. Who cares if it's different every time? None of the challenges even come close to what we'd face in a raid. It's not as challenging as a raid, nor as difficult. Not even close. Before the fifth round, it's all essentially the same regardless of the modifiers, and the round 5 boss and Skolas are just pushovers, as far as I've experienced.

Wrong. They have been "pushovers" because of Burn exploitation. And that depends on a very specific set of conditions that have to be coordinated (much like a raid boss). This won't be as true in the coming weeks, I imagine. But if you have a highly coordinated team that just so happens to have the exact weapons and classes that you need to make use of the exploits, I can see why you'd think that.

Here you actually have a cool boss mechanic, which can be defeated and bypassed not by cheese, but by 3 players with Gjallarhorns (or 4th Horsemans and Thunderlords with arc burn). When you can just shoot the boss with everything you've got and he dies in 45 seconds, you have failed. You have to deal with and figure out Atheon's mechanics. You have to deal with and figure out Crota's mechanics. But Skolas? Nope, just shoot him a lot. It's so massively disappointing that concentrating your fire in an intense burst is enough to take out the Arena's toughest boss.

It's funny that Cody "No cheese" Miller is crying about how easy it is to semi-cheese the last bosses. But let's look at actual Raid bosses. We killed the templar in <40 seconds with nothing but concentrated firepower. People have beaten Atheon in 20 seconds with nothing but concentrated firepower. People have killed Crota in one sword thanks to a well-timed supply of concentrated firepower. How is this any different?
In fact! I heard that YOU were having a very tough time with Skolas, and decided to do the "3 Gjallarhorn" method. So that makes you a wee bit disingenuous and hypocritical. And I don't think you realize how long it took us to coordinate and pull of the "4th Horseman" method. it was extremely difficult, even if it looks stupidly easy on video. You're flat-out wrong on this. Just because others can carry you to victory, it doesn't mean you can scoff at the challenge. The Qodron mechanics were great boss encounters that weren't the typical "just chip away at his health until he falls" shtick of Destiny's Vanilla bosses. Bungie gave you more of what you asked for in bosses with unique mechanics, and you're whining that the Burns have made a couple of them easier than normal. Good luck fighting Skolas with no burn, or with Small Arms.

Likewise, the treasure keys are a huge mess. Final bosses should drop treasure keys 100% of the time on 34 and 35. It's utterly baffling why this isn't the case. Finding keys in the wild should be a bonus. What did I get for beating Skolas the first week? Absolutely nothing because I didn't have a key.

I didn't have a key either, but I'm not running around crying like a spoiled child. Beating Skolas was reward enough. It was a cliff that my team scaled, and my reward is the view from the top. Entitled folks these days...

The gear is also bad. The Queen's gear is just legendary gear. I have awesome legendary gear already, and not only that, but the perks don't all have tradeoffs on them. Can you get elemental primaries from PoE? If not, it's a big waste of time since it sure isn't that fun for its own sake.

Subjective, but wrong anyway. If you have awesome legendary gear, then good for you! Other people might find lots to like about Queen gear and its perks. My Warlock's fallen-orb making gauntlets are neat, and because of their usefulness, I haven't ascended my VoG gauntlets yet. And remember that a lot of folks don't have tons of top-tier legendary stuff yet (very few Destiny players Raid, much less Raid regularly), so How gear is a great alternative path to the top. Don't whine because you were already AT the top when it came out.

That's the irony. What good is your end game, if the best part of it is PvP where elemental damage doesn't matter? The elemental primaries were good before because the rock in PvE. But do you think I'm going to want to play PoE 9 times a week? No thanks.

Since when did elemental damage play an important role in end-game? I'd say that given the Small Arms modifier, elemental primaries of all kinds will play a big role in PvE from now on. And nobody is forcing you to run PoE nine times a week. You cry at first because there's not much to do in Destiny, now you cry because there's too much to do in Destiny. Even though defeating Skolas looks easy, my group is NOT going to run it two more times this week (we made some jokes about it, even). Because the challenge was real, and draining...

Huge miss for the PvP end game, huge hit for the PvP end game, and a steadily rising quality to the story missions.

Cody declares this a 60% rise in quality for Destiny. Final rating: Cody approves of House of Wolves.

In fact! I heard that YOU were having a very tough time with Skolas, and decided to do the "3 Gjallarhorn" method. So that makes you a wee bit disingenuous and hypocritical.

You heard partially right. Yes we were having a hard time. Solar burn was brutal. I wanted to do it "legit", but time was running out and the other 2 had to go. Someone else suggested this method, and we did it. It was better than bailing and not killing him. This was acceptable, because at the end of the day I wasn't really enjoying it too much. Vault of Glass first time? I enjoyed every second, even while dying repeatedly! 12 hours gladly spent. If I had to spend 12 hours on the level 35 PoE, I'd shoot myself.

Yes you can kill the templar fast too, but you have to use his mechanics. His shield doesn't go down on its own, and you have to block teleports. Yes you can kill atheon quickly, but you need to kill the oracles, get time's vengeance, and get everybody back. Yes you can kill Crota quickly, but you still have to down his shield and use the sword. Skolas? You can completely bypass the Corrupted Light and mine defusing. Did you even read my post? Skolas is the only high level boss on which you can just ignore his mechanics and still win. That's what's disappointing.

- No text -

You've been the promised land!

Regarding PoE...I appreciate the effort, but it just doesn't add anything new. The PoE designers hands are tied in some ways; Ghallerhorns and Horseman and whatever else are a given. They exist, and people pursue them with abandon. Why? Because they are simply better than anything else. Forget strategy, forget skill, forget perseverance. Just load your super weapon and pull the trigger.

I think this may be why I'm having a hard time enjoying PoE. I love killing bad guys, and I love to survive. But it's hard to feel good about my effort when I can watch people breeze through shit just because they have these few be-all-end-all weapons. Here is an opportunity missed - I would have loved a survival mode in which Guardians just survived as long as possible. But they couldn't do that because they had to have a specific end to the event. Why? So they could give loot. Because people will not play without the promise of loot? Why did I play ODST: Firefight for so long?

Weird. We're in a weird place with Destiny. Or, maybe just I am.

I guess I'd say that PoE is good in principle and in (general) execution, but is undercut (IMO) because of super weapons. In many ways, ToO is the same. I'm having a hard time trying to understand my motivation for playing. If super weapons are the key to success, and they are randomly given, what is my motivation again?

I hear you, brother. Because I have a few of those superweapons on one platform but not the other, I see a bit of both sides (although the Lighthouse is out of my reach without a truckload of luck).

It's disheartening to hear how easy this bounty or this boss is to some. It's a presumption to think it's easy for everyone. I'd like to get better at Crucible, but I don't know if it's possible, and the weapon differential makes it even less possible.

I'm all for winners and losers because without them you don't have meaningful competition. I just wish I didn't feel that the path to being a winner is getting steeper all the time.

I like HoWs quite a bit, but whenever I play on the PS4 in particular, I feel disadvantaged. It's good that I have friends there who don't seem to care (yet) that my skills or weapons (except for Thunderlord) are subpar. One drawback of all the high-stakes three-man activities is that I'm hesitant to join scheduled events now in that it feels like there's no room for a weak link.

I hope it came through that I think HoW is a good effort. I've (in general) been enjoying Crucible over the last couple of months. I guess I'm wondering if this (i.e. super weapon domination) is a core characteristic of games that include loot as a reward system. If you include loot, you have to include some stuff that make people feel awesome to get, and it has to be gated, so that not everyone gets it.

And once you've set a bar, there's no going backwards. An epic gun cannot be rolled back or taken back; it can be nerfed but that causes issues of its own. So how can you keep upping the stakes to keep people playing? It makes me wonder if Cody isn't right about RNG loot: bad in principle.

None of this matters drastically - I've certainly gotten my money's worth out of Destiny. 6+ months is a pretty good run.

I love killing bad guys, and I love to survive. But it's hard to feel good about my effort when I can watch people breeze through shit just because they have these few be-all-end-all weapons.

If it makes you feel any better, simply using the best weapons alone isn't enough. I imagine it is certainly easier but 3 of us tried last night to take down The Forever Eater with nothing but Gjallarhorn spam and just couldn't bring all the pieces together. And that Horseman strat for Skolas? Look at Korny's post about how long it took them to actually make that work. I have seen full runs of people beating Skolas the "normal" way in less time than it took them to pull off the Horseman way. That takes a lot of coordination and luck.

I hope I did not come across as implying no skill was necessary. There's a lot I see on YouTube that I would't be capable of with all of the weapons in the game. Also, I don't feel like I had a rough time in ToO solely because of luck or disadvantage - the teams were good and played well. It's just really seemed like everyone we played against used one of the same 3 primaries which suggests there is a real advantage to using them.

And in general almost every "we killed the big baddie so fast" video includes the use of one or two usual suspects.

Don't mind him, he ironically gets mad at others for thinking the worst in him, but then turns around and makes posts thinking the worst about you and your intent. Or at least that's how it appears to me. :P

- No text -

Right. That must be it. Either way, think what you will. You're a hypocrite.

In fact! I heard that YOU were having a very tough time with Skolas, and decided to do the "3 Gjallarhorn" method. So that makes you a wee bit disingenuous and hypocritical.

You heard partially right. Yes we were having a hard time. Solar burn was brutal. I wanted to do it "legit", but time was running out and the other 2 had to go. Someone else suggested this method, and we did it. It was better than bailing and not killing him. This was acceptable, because at the end of the day I wasn't really enjoying it too much. Vault of Glass first time? I enjoyed every second, even while dying repeatedly! 12 hours gladly spent. If I had to spend 12 hours on the level 35 PoE, I'd shoot myself.

Yes you can kill the templar fast too, but you have to use his mechanics. His shield doesn't go down on its own, and you have to block teleports. Yes you can kill atheon quickly, but you need to kill the oracles, get time's vengeance, and get everybody back. Yes you can kill Crota quickly, but you still have to down his shield and use the sword. Skolas? You can completely bypass the Corrupted Light and mine defusing. Did you even read my post? Skolas is the only high level boss on which you can just ignore his mechanics and still win. That's what's disappointing.

Literally the ONLY reason you can do this is because of the Elemental burns. And we've been lucky that we've had them, because I'm fairly sure they won't be around to save us next week. I'm sure it'd be entirely possible to bypass Atheon's mechanics if a swarm of Gjallarhorns started pounding him as soon as he spawned if VoG had Solar burn...

But at least you admitted that you've been lying about Skolas, since this "too easy" fight gave you a ton of trouble.

To be fair, the motives ascribed to Raga in that other conversation were assumptions built on nothing he's ever done or said.

This is something different, a continuation of a long discussion between people who have a history of disagreeing about Destiny.

To say that you've never been part of such a dynamic would be laughable.

To say that you've never been part of such a dynamic would be laughable.

Never said or implied it, first of all. Second, I also don't go out of my way to try and reply to practically everything a particular person posts who I have a history of disagreeing with. Usually, it's specific topics (weapon balancing, for instance).

To be fair, the motives ascribed to Raga in that other conversation were assumptions built on nothing he's ever done or said.

The only assumption I made was that I was dealing with a logical being. Hearts of gold and the purest intentions don't change the actual reality of the deeds done. We might understand why they're done, but the deed is what it is regardless.

To say that you've never been part of such a dynamic would be laughable.

Never said or implied it, first of all.

No, you didn't. I was merely saying you've had a history with individuals on forums, and that informs how you respond. Part of that response comes not from assuming, but from the history. We all should give everyone a fresh benefit of a doubt everyday, but we know each other well--some conversations have been going on for years! I, for instance, might not have responded to this thread the way I did if I didn't view it as another in a series of self-aggrandizing posts from Cody.

Second, I also don't go out of my way to try and reply to practically everything a particular person posts who have I history of disagreeing with. Usually it's specific topics (weapon balancing, first instance).

I would also advise that Ragashingo ignore Cody now and then.

To be fair, the motives ascribed to Raga in that other conversation were assumptions built on nothing he's ever done or said.

The only assumption I made was that I was dealing with a logical being. Hearts of gold and the purest intentions don't change the actual reality of the deeds done. We might understand why they're done, but the deed is what it is regardless.

You said he wanted to see people harassed. That was an assumption. I don't want rehash it anymore.

My best friend has no Gjallarhorn and no 34s. Because of this he's not "allowed " to fight Skolas or Qodron when we look for people on LFG. And when we do party up... He doesn't do the damage.

I'm happy to keep trying (I'd quite like to at least try the fights the proper way instead of the DPS race) but a lot of people are much less patient, and almost no one wants to do the fight "properly".

Last week Kermit, Bigarm and I had a great time playing PoE with only 1 Gjallarhorn. All of us with different elements, desparately tring to grab supers so we could pick each other up or boost our defense while we stripped Valus Trau'ug's shields - Awesome. It was a lot of fun, but I know a lot of folks would have stopped trying the proper way after just a couple of attempts.

Tl:Dr it upsets me that Super-Weapons are the new "cheese" because it doesn't feel like cheese. It's just a part of the game, and with no cheese-guilt it's become almost compulsory.

Right. That must be it. Either way, think what you will. You're a hypocrite.

The entire reason I was upset with pete is because he was accusing me of something that went completely against the argument I was trying to make. My point was that in my opinion someone can post a video highlighting potential cheating without looking to have a community go after the people in said video." He responded with things like: "...(you would be) looking for public harassment against the player." and "Because they (your intentions) aren't (positive)."

His accusations were directly opposite of what I was saying and the point I was trying to make.

Now with Cody, he said: "Comet is do or die." in the context that it needs to get significantly closer to what we both agree is Halo's better in game story quality. We know that's the context because he followed it up with: "If they don't get their act together and give us a decent story that is also told well, then they've lost." I challenged him on this do or die comment noting that it probably was not "do or die" and noting that he has been saying such thing for a long long time and yet still plays the game. Would you like me to link you to similar quotes of his? Where he said similar things about House of Wolves and The Dark Below. Because I'm fairly certain I can.

Apparently, in Avateur land, my challenging Cody on what he actually said, in its proper context, and taking into account his positing history is the same thing as being offended when someone basically said I was only looking for a witchhunt." when my arguement was I would not be looking for a witch hunt. In reality, my only mistake was responding to your trolling at all.

That's a mistake that won't happen again.

To be fair, the motives ascribed to Raga in that other conversation were assumptions built on nothing he's ever done or said.

The only assumption I made was that I was dealing with a logical being. Hearts of gold and the purest intentions don't change the actual reality of the deeds done. We might understand why they're done, but the deed is what it is regardless.

You said he wanted to see people harassed. That was an assumption. I don't want rehash it anymore.

Reply deleted, if you read it, if you didn't, whatever. Let's all agree that timed exclusive suck and worst Bungie Day ever.

My best friend has no Gjallarhorn and no 34s. Because of this he's not "allowed " to fight Skolas or Qodron when we look for people on LFG. And when we do party up... He doesn't do the damage.

I'm happy to keep trying (I'd quite like to at least try the fights the proper way instead of the DPS race) but a lot of people are much less patient, and almost no one wants to do the fight "properly".

Last week Kermit, Bigarm and I had a great time playing PoE with only 1 Gjallarhorn. All of us with different elements, desparately tring to grab supers so we could pick each other up or boost our defense while we stripped Valus Trau'ug's shields - Awesome. It was a lot of fun, but I know a lot of folks would have stopped trying the proper way after just a couple of attempts.

Tl:Dr it upsets me that Super-Weapons are the new "cheese" because it doesn't feel like cheese. It's just a part of the game, and with no cheese-guilt it's become almost compulsory.

Had a great time, too. We wiped several times, and that was only level 32.

One of the things I enjoy about the Thursday group AKA Deeply Flawed Raiders is that, for those who maybe didn't get the memo, mistakes are expected and are typically laughed off.

Negative, non-encouraging folks need not apply.

Right. That must be it. Either way, think what you will. You're a hypocrite.

The entire reason I was upset with pete is because he was accusing me of something that went completely against the argument I was trying to make. My point was that in my opinion someone can post a video highlighting potential cheating without looking to have a community go after the people in said video." He responded with things like: "...(you would be) looking for public harassment against the player." and "Because they (your intentions) aren't (positive)."

His accusations were directly opposite of what I was saying and the point I was trying to make.

Now with Cody, he said: "Comet is do or die." in the context that it needs to get significantly closer to what we both agree is Halo's better in game story quality. We know that's the context because he followed it up with: "If they don't get their act together and give us a decent story that is also told well, then they've lost." I challenged him on this do or die comment noting that it probably was not "do or die" and noting that he has been saying such thing for a long long time and yet still plays the game. Would you like me to link you to similar quotes of his? Where he said similar things about House of Wolves and The Dark Below. Because I'm fairly certain I can.

It's also Cody speaking for himself, and as he replied to you many times before (or do YOU need links of his previous replies to you?), he replied again making it clear that he can completely give up on some aspects while loving others. He's speaking how he feels, and the way he says it sometimes (okay, fine, lots of times) aren't exactly always the best. But you've made it your personal goal in life to be the Cody Police. You also appear to have been thinking the worst about him even though, in your own claims, you've hashed this out with him before and he's explained himself before.

Apparently, in Avateur land, my challenging Cody on what he actually said, in its proper context, and taking into account his positing history is the same thing as being offended when someone basically said I was only looking for a witchhunt." when my arguement was I would not be looking for a witch hunt. In reality, my only mistake was responding to your trolling at all.

That's a mistake that won't happen again.

Lol, so you can claim all that stuff regarding Pete, but when I already said I wasn't trolling, you still call me one? Okay. Again, hypocritical.

- No text -

But at least you admitted that you've been lying about Skolas, since this "too easy" fight gave you a ton of trouble.

Do you live in some kind of fantasy land where you always know what to do in the fights? We go in not having played it, and experiment. Lots of what we tried didn't work. When we found what DID work, it was absurdly simple.

It's just really seemed like everyone we played against used one of the same 3 primaries which suggests there is a real advantage to using them.

This is true for a number of reasons, but not entirely. Certain weapons cater to certain playstyles and playlists better than others, which is why you'll see some used more than others. In ToO, there are essentially two ways encounters play out: the initial sniping, and the close-quarters skirmish. And you need to be close-quarters to ensure the enemy can't safely revive. Hand Cannons and shotguns tend to rule this region, so you see a lot of that. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you NEED those weapons.
Last night, the first time that a weapon gave me concern was when someone had a MIDA. That weapon serves a different role, and would dominate us at range. Then we ran into the new Fusion sniper, which we couldn't plan around.
Personally, I'd be very concerned about stuff like Bad Juju, Red Death, Suros, and Plan C, but absolutely nobody has used them because of the thought that Exotic Hand Cannons are the only way to go.
The big reason I've been using Thorn is the ability to track enemy movement when you tag them, but outside of ToO, I have never used it (except when playing on Sammy's account), I'm a Bad Juju/Monte Carlo kind of guy. So don't be afraid to mix it up in ToO. You'd be surprised at how quickly teams break when they can't account for how you will play. I am the only person that I've seen go into Trials with a Machine Gun, and it's actually worked out for me.

And in general almost every "we killed the big baddie so fast" video includes the use of one or two usual suspects.

This is true because certain weapons have advantages when it comes to raw DPS, and that's why Bungie seems to have two options for approaching boss battles: Extremely high HP, like the Strike bosses have been, and using mechanics designed to negate the raw DPS, such as the Templar's shield/Relic/teleporting mechanism, Atheon's banishing and Oracles, and Skolas' Servitor/Infection/Mine disarmings. Those are things that take the focus off of the "superweapons" and more focus on coordination. Personally, I prefer the latter. That we were able to override the mechanics was a simple matter of circumstance (burns) and luck, which won't always be in our favor, rendering the power of these weapons irrelevant (What good is a Gjallarhorn if the mines wipe your team?).

They mostly have good base stats and from what I've seen none of them exhibit the low-impact/high-RoF everyone but Raichu hates so much. That you can reroll them too makes them even better.

The Wolf weapons, on the other hand? Mostly garbage. The Fusion Rifle and LMG are okay, but that's about it. Even the weapons with good archetypes like the AR suffer because one of the perks is swapped out for arguably useless fallen ones. Why is Shank burn on a rocket launcher a thing, Bungie?

. We all should give everyone a fresh benefit of a doubt everyday, but we know each other well--some conversations have been going on for years!

You know, as nice as that sounds, I disagree. I rather like the idea that we are accountable both to what we say now and what we have said in the past. I like the idea that there are people out there willing to call me on something. I'm happy people will speak up if I'm inconsistent or if I go too far in an argument, or if I'm just plain wrong. Somehow, to me, giving people a clean slate everyday means ignoring them as people. Because while we sometimes respond to their past negatives, remembering what someone has said or done also lets us respond to them in the context of their past positives. But, when doing either we should be very sure to keep our responses grounded in what they are saying now.

Second, I also don't go out of my way to try and reply to practically everything a particular person posts who have I history of disagreeing with. Usually it's specific topics (weapon balancing, first instance).

I would also advise that Ragashingo ignore Cody now and then.

And, to me, this is the hard part. How many times should I ignore someone when they say something I disagree with? Heck, how many times have I done so only to have my inactions go unnoticed? In context: Should I respond to Cody 1/10th as often? 1/100th? Where should the line be drawn?

Someone once said something like: "The only proper response to bad speech (meaning lies, inaccuracies, slander, or whatnot) is more speech (as in speaking up and engaging and opposing the bad speech by voicing you own opinions... which are hopefully not lies or other bad speech.) As I have said in the past, that's how I treat things around here. I understand constant nagging and quibbling can be tiresome, but, as I see it, everyone should be encouraged to voice an opinion and they should do so knowing that others are similarly encouraged to respond to that opinion. Criticizing someone for the act of responding just seems so frivolous to me, if that makes any sense. Criticism should instead be directed at the contents of the response, not the act of the response itself.

P.S. All the above was typed in a happy, conversational tone. My apologies if it reads otherwise. :)

Made you look :-p

Let's be nice and friendly again mmk?

Let's be nice and friendly again mmk?

Why don't we toss them in with the HBO lot? They could use the meat...

I don't get why some folks get hostile towards one another. We all share a common interest, so even if we disagree on some points, there's no reason we can't respect each other and find common ground. Negativity towards one another doesn't get us anywhere, so just let it go and move on as a community...

After all, you've complained about Destiny for longer than it has existed, yet you are still playing!

Must we go through this again?

1. It is getting better and better but is not where it should be just yet.
2. Yes there are stupid aspects to the game.
3. There are tons of wonderful aspects to the game.

Hence, I can complain yet still enjoy a lot of it.

You dodged the real response there.

In what possible way could the cliché "do or die" apply to the Comet expansion?

Sales have apparently been good. Player engagement is so good that even the game's vocal critics are still playing it.

What evidence can you possibly supply to suggest that the quality or performance of the main game and the two expansions so far released have been so poor that the entire product will live or die based on the release of the next expansion?

The only thing I can think of is that you're saying that Destiny will be dead to you if Comet doesn't use all your ideas instead of just some of them, and that sounds a lot like an addict claiming he can quit anytime he wants.

Let's be nice and friendly again mmk?

Why don't we toss them in with the HBO lot? They could use the meat...

I don't get why some folks get hostile towards one another. We all share a common interest, so even if we disagree on some points, there's no reason we can't respect each other and find common ground. Negativity towards one another doesn't get us anywhere, so just let it go and move on as a community...

Korny, the voice of reason.

Also, you all suck.

Oh Trollymunky, I gotta say, you're awesome at making me laugh heartily. You gotta be the champ of champs. :D

House of Wolves is largely better than Dark Below, except possibly for the end game.

Once again, Bungie has used my ideas by eliminating damage and defense upgrade nodes. This is a great decision, and everything is better now. No downsides. Slowly the tedium of upgrading gear is going away, and perhaps one day will be eliminated altogether (as well as RNG loot).

Have to disagree on both counts. Weapon leveling is now so effortless I don't notice it happening, so it feels like I'm not doing it at all. I've accumulated huge stacks of resources I'll now apparently never need, and yet the game is giving me more than ever for reasons I can't fathom. Not sure why the things spawn in the wild now at all.

Honestly I was afraid of something like this happening to weapon leveling because I couldn't imagine what Bungie meant when they said that the Dark Below mechanic where Xur replaces your exotic with a new one you need to re-level but with higher base stats was a "mistake". I didn't understand that because I couldn't imagine how they could both respect the input of time into upgrading the weapon and also up the base stats without either making the change so easy it would seem meaningless or causing repetition. So they've decided to make it perfunctory; weapon damage jumps straight from the base, which was the old max, to the new max after unlocking a couple perks.

It also means there's less variation in the amount of damage being done across the PvE portions of the game because Guardian weapons vary less, and I think that's a shame.

The story missions are getting better all the time, but still have plenty of room to grow. Especially with a more story heavy expansion, the missions should be even more involved, long, and complex. They should blow Halo missions out of the water, but don't. I understand why, yet given the terrible constraints Bungie has placed on themselves these missions were the best yet, at least in my opinion. Yet, there could have been even more creativity. The VoG platforms make an appearance in the final mission, but are not utilized at all except for a set piece. I was sure that leaping across them was a reminder of how they work, and following they'd play a role in the fight. Maybe cover appears and disappears. Maybe the ground vanishes occasionally and you have to rotate around the arena fighting. But no, that would have been too cool.

I'm guessing that Bungie knows that only a small portion of players raid, and perhaps this functions as a missing tutorial to get people to go into the Vault who haven't been; or, given the surprise involvement of the Vex in the HoW storyline, it's prep not for what comes at the end of that mission, but for what comes in the next expansion, which might be a surprise to people who have not played the Vault.

Why do the story missions top out at 32? Why can't I select them all at level 35 for more difficulty? Again Halo had it right: selectable difficulty. Story missions should have level 30 enemies but have 4 difficulty levels. Simple as that. Even though they were decently fun, they were also rather easy, and I selected 32. I'm not so keen on handicapping myself just to have a challenge.

If you can simulate that by delevelling yourself, why should Bungie put effort into creating the same scenario just to re-juggle the numbers "32" and "35" instead of "28" and "32"?

If Bungie already has variations on those for the daily heroic, why do you want to play them faster than Bungie wants to offer them up? Half the time you're complaining that there's not enough stuff to do, and the other half you're complaining about not having the options to burn through the content even faster.

Bungie needs to up their storytelling yesterday. Here, we have a decent idea for a story, but it's not really given the proper care it deserves. It's baffling. Bungie has done it with Halo, and they should be able to do it with Destiny. Comet is do or die. If they don't get their act together and give us a decent story that is also told well, then they've lost.

Lost... what, exactly?

. We all should give everyone a fresh benefit of a doubt everyday, but we know each other well--some conversations have been going on for years!

You know, as nice as that sounds, I disagree.

I don't really disagree with anything else you said, so I'll clarify my point above. I meant that in the old fashioned sense (think: love thy neighbor), and I think we're on the same page. These long-term relationships make this an interesting place! Friendships develop, sometimes people rub us the wrong way--it's all part of the mix and wouldn't happen if we weren't here for something other than using the Fireteam builder. We have our passions. We're different, and we learn from each other. I've seen people grow up here. I've grown up myself, and I was 30 the first time I saw a bungie.org site.

Maybe I've noticed patterns and I've picked on Pete and Cody the last few days (I know once with Cody it was unprovoked), but I hope those guys know I have no ill will toward them. I've been trying to meet those two guys for years! (Still don't know how I've managed not to meet Pete!)

Confession: it's been a rough week. I've come here just to take breaks--very little Destiny or free time the last several days. If I've blown off steam too vigorously in someone's direction, all apologies.

Why is Shank burn on a rocket launcher a thing, Bungie?

Perhaps, in the future we'll encounter some mission or round of PoE where it'll be shanks everywhere.

EVERYWHERE, everywhere.

Even from the Khvostov

Do you know how many times Shanks with solar shields have FUCKED me on an Arc nightfall?

Do you!?

LOL just had a thought about a boss that is a jumbo super-shank; this needs to be a thing. Comically big.

In what possible way could the cliché "do or die" apply to the Comet expansion?

In the sense that in my eyes, this is the first opportunity to actually turn the storytelling around. If they can't here, it will demonstrate their overall narrative ineptitude. These 2 expansions were probably set long enough ago that not much could happen. If they don't, I'm not going to quit Destiny or anything, but I will lose respect for them in the storytelling department and that will forever color my experiences and expectations from here on out.

Past that point I'm just going to stop treating them like they are capable of a good story, and basically no longer get on them if it sucks since it'd be expected.

Do you know how many times Shanks with solar shields have FUCKED me on an Arc nightfall?

Do you!?

LOL just had a thought about a boss that is a jumbo super-shank; this needs to be a thing. Comically big.

I'm telling you, man, next Raid Boss. Shankosaurus!

In what possible way could the cliché "do or die" apply to the Comet expansion?

In the sense that in my eyes, this is the first opportunity to actually turn the storytelling around. If they can't here, it will demonstrate their overall narrative ineptitude. These 2 expansions were probably set long enough ago that not much could happen. If they don't, I'm not going to quit Destiny or anything, but I will lose respect for them in the storytelling department and that will forever color my experiences and expectations from here on out.

Past that point I'm just going to stop treating them like they are capable of a good story, and basically no longer get on them if it sucks since it'd be expected.

This seems like a bad policy. For instance, Remember Me (by DONTNOD) was almost good, but ultimately the entire game was a big meh. Especially in the storytelling department where they had a lot of neat story concepts and ideas and... just kinda dropped the ball... down a deep dark sewer. And yet, Life is Strange (the very next game by DONTNOD) is one of my favorite story based games of all time. Same company, two very different outcomes!

Really, I think all your talk of losing respect and having your expectations forever colored is just that: Talk. To actually write off a company based on one game is just not something I think you or anyone else would realistically do.

Really, I think all your talk of losing respect and having your expectations forever colored is just that: Talk. To actually write off a company based on one game is just not something I think you or anyone else would realistically do.

Read. I said I would write them off narratively. I specifically said I would not abandon Destiny just because of the narrative.

Really, I think all your talk of losing respect and having your expectations forever colored is just that: Talk. To actually write off a company based on one game is just not something I think you or anyone else would realistically do.

Read. I said I would write them off narratively. I specifically said I would not abandon Destiny just because of the narrative.

To write off a company narratively, even. That's what I was going for... talking about story and all... Sorry if it wasn't clear. :)

Read. I said I would write them off narratively. I specifically said I would not abandon Destiny just because of the narrative.

Eh, like I said earlier, don't mind him. The reading and hypocrisy thing and such. And to further support you, and also completely destroy that notion of his that someone wouldn't completely write off a company based on just one game, I'd like to point out that I (and many others I know) wrote off 343 over Halo 4 alone. I only got my hands on Master Chief Collection because it was largely rehashed Bungie Halo games, and I didn't pay anything close to full price. There are no future 343 games for purchase in my future, and MCC's failure didn't decide that one.

As for Destiny's narrative and your overall point of writing them off (and disregarding the fact that you're replying to someone with an outright grudge against all the things you say at all times ever), I don't think it's fair to view Bungie's storytelling abilities as a failure if Comet doesn't turn it around.

The Grimoire, as unfortunate as it is that it's stuck on Bungie.net and not in the best type of UI, is really spectacular. Please note that I'm in full agreement with you generally about the "story" in the game, because I don't feel there is a story within the game world. At all. But what I'm getting at is, Comet may have also been planned out ahead, or may be using assets that somehow got cut previously. I'm wondering if you may have to wait for Destiny 2 to wow you. The question then becomes, would you be willing to give them that shot? The question after that would be, what if Destiny 2 brings the story in all of its glory, living up to or surpassing all of what you could have hoped for? And then, would it still be disregarded or abandoned by you, or would you potentially love it and run with it into the remainder of Bungie's 10 year plan (or whatever it is now)?

And to further support you, and also completely destroy that notion of his that someone wouldn't completely write off a company based on just one game, I'd like to point out that I (and many others I know) wrote off 343 over Halo 4 alone. I only got my hands on Master Chief Collection because it was largely rehashed Bungie Halo games, and I didn't pay anything close to full price. There are no future 343 games for purchase in my future, and MCC's failure didn't decide that one.

That's a good point. Instead of looking forward to Halo 5, I currently have it as a "buy someday" type purchase entirely because 343 so badly screwed up the Didact in Halo 4. But to me that was more of an active screw up, where Destiny does have good writing talent associated with the project (like you said below, the Grimoire is really really good!) and does have a long history of telling good stories within FPS games.

As for Destiny's narrative and your overall point of writing them off (and disregarding the fact that you're replying to someone with an outright grudge against all the things you say at all times ever), I don't think it's fair to view Bungie's storytelling abilities as a failure if Comet doesn't turn it around.

The question then becomes, would you be willing to give them that shot? The question after that would be, what if Destiny 2 brings the story in all of its glory, living up to or surpassing all of what you could have hoped for? And then, would it still be disregarded or abandoned by you, or would you potentially love it and run with it into the remainder of Bungie's 10 year plan (or whatever it is now)?

Indeed. That's basically what I was asking as well.

P.S. Drop the insults. They are completely uncalled for. Thanks. :)

And once you've set a bar, there's no going backwards. An epic gun cannot be rolled back or taken back; it can be nerfed but that causes issues of its own. So how can you keep upping the stakes to keep people playing? It makes me wonder if Cody isn't right about RNG loot: bad in principle.

Exactly. I don't see how hard this is to understand. If you design your game with specific guns that are acquired in specific ways, then all the challenges can actually be designed knowing what players will have access to. With RNG loot, challenges can't require a wide variety of gun types or things like that because you might not have it yet. But when the gear acquisition itself is well integrated into your game, then you can balance out all the guns with each other, and with each activity.

This is even demonstrated in the PvE end game activities: they are becoming more and more difficult and bullet spongy. PoE is way worse than Crota's end with bullet sponge enemies, and people complained a lot about them back in TDB! The key is not to make the end game stuff difficult, but to make it challenging. That means having a wide variety of unique unusual scenarios, and giving players access to a variety of different tools by which to solve those scenarios. It doesn't mean making bosses with 2 million hit points.

Responding to Cody is not the problem. Responding about Cody, or because it is Cody is a problem. (This is not narrowly tailored to you. It tends to be a problem and of no value to the community whenever it happens. Any writer. Any target. )

Responding to Cody is not the problem. Responding about Cody, or because it is Cody is a problem. (This is not narrowly tailored to you. It tends to be a problem and of no value to the community whenever it happens. Any writer. Any target. )

I think what you're saying is it's not okay to make it personal, and if that's what you're saying, I completely agree.

I think it's perfectly okay to criticize what someone writes, and that includes their ideas, their tone, and their behavior on the forum.

Making it personal could be attacking them as a whole person, labeling or name-calling, making "you" statements, or ascribing thoughts or intent to them that we can't possibly know.

An ex-girlfriend of mine had a habit of doing the latter--what I said I meant or thought did not matter next to what she said I meant or thought. I know that issue when I see it.

I don't say all this from a pedestal of communication mastery. I've posted much that I regret here. To Cody's credit, although I often find his posts overly provocative and arrogant in tone, he is usually civil to his critics.

TL;DR

Be nice, damn it!