Elimination for All!!! (Destiny)
by Speedracer513 
, Dallas, Texas, Tuesday, June 09, 2015, 14:02 (3695 days ago)
And the people rejoice! Elimination is now a standard crucible playlist!!
Edit: Just noticed the part where they say "Like many good things in Crucible, this playlist is temporary." Slight bummer, but still great news nonetheless.
Yay! I'm looking forward to the practice.
by dogcow , Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Tuesday, June 09, 2015, 14:05 (3695 days ago) @ Speedracer513
- No text -
I am really looking forward to this! The close games I've had in the Trials were some of the most fun I've had in PvP. It's too bad only maybe 1 in 10 games were even remotely close.
-Disciple
Interesting Side-note
Skill-matching is enabled
Wow I could have sworn Skill-matching was simply second priority to connection-speed-matching in Trials. Kind of a bummer that they don't have any form of skill-matching, I think it would make for better games.
Interesting Side-note
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Tuesday, June 09, 2015, 15:58 (3695 days ago) @ Monochron
Skill-matching is enabled
Wow I could have sworn Skill-matching was simply second priority to connection-speed-matching in Trials. Kind of a bummer that they don't have any form of skill-matching, I think it would make for better games.
I normally feel that skill matching should be highly prioritized, but in the case of trials I feel skill matching would detract from the "tournament" nature of the experience. When you buy your way in to trials, you are saying "I am ready for this". I think skill-based matchmaking at that point would go against the nature of the experience :)
Interesting Side-note
I personally don't believe skill matching actually works. When I play in playlists that supposedly feature it I regularly get my *ss handed to me with a side of fries.
Interesting Side-note
by Speedracer513 , Dallas, Texas, Tuesday, June 09, 2015, 17:00 (3695 days ago) @ CougRon
I personally don't believe skill matching actually works. When I play in playlists that supposedly feature it I regularly get my *ss handed to me with a side of fries.
Does this usually happen when you are running with other DBOers?
I know I have noticed a... notable... difference in the quality of my opponents when I am in a fireteam with certain people. There are one or two people I play with on a regular basis that particularly seem to have us matchmade against higher-quality opponents the minute they get in the party. I believe Bungie still relies heavily on their own hidden "true-skill" ratings for each player when skill-based matchmaking is involved, and it seems to only take one or two people with a high true-skill rating to make a drastic difference.
It only takes one
I believe in Halo they would look at the highest ranking player's skill in a group to determine matching. So if you had a good player and a poor player grouped you would use the good player's level to determine matching, not an average of the two.
Interesting Side-note
I think skill-based matchmaking at that point would go against the nature of the experience :)
Not only this, but skill-based matchmaking would turn Trials into a sideshow of deranking. Previous experience in Halo has shown you can't have a system of progression based on wins in conjunction with a TrueSkill-style system. The goal of a skill matching system is for all players to reach a 50% win rate. That wouldn't function well with how Trials is implemented.
Exactly
Skill based matchmaking is bogus. It leads to bizarre forfeit-farming games where the other team doesn't even try for 50 games so that they can then have a cakewalk to undefeated land, as well as to an eventual 50% win scenario for players who always try their best. Some players (like me) who like to screw around from time to time will find that (a) screwing around isn't as fun because you're basically guaranteed a loss if you're not going 100% and (b) since you screw around sometimes, when you really put your gameface on you realize there's no need and you're not getting the challenge you want.
Right now, crucible is a good mix of "oh wow, these guys are good - let's play for reals," "holy smokes these guys are awesome, time to equip NLB and hope I get at least 1 troll kill," and "these guys are clearly ... uh... June Gloom Noobs? I guess it's time to level up Dragon's Breath while going for a melee kill streak of 5." I like that. I do wish the asshole announcer would stop telling me that I "misjudged my opponents" though - I'm not the one who said "I think I can beat those guys" before the game started.
I wish I could say the same for Iron Banner, but that's clearly "you're organized a team of 6 and can win" vs. "you're flying solo and the best you can hope for is to be on the bright side of the losing team." I seriously went 0-6 last night on my warlock and was a top player on my team several times. GRRRR.
Trials of Osiris seems to be a reasonable matching system, at least in the few games I've played of it.
One side note: Bungie needs to get better at matching you to different rooms. I've been beaten by over 8000 and been put into the same room again, only to leave, rejoin IB, and find that... I'm in the SAME ROOM. Wash, rinse, repeat. If players leave a room, do them a favor and give them a new lobby when they rejoin the event.
Exactly
Skill based matchmaking is bogus. It leads to bizarre forfeit-farming games where the other team doesn't even try for 50 games so that they can then have a cakewalk to undefeated land, as well as to an eventual 50% win scenario for players who always try their best. Some players (like me) who like to screw around from time to time will find that (a) screwing around isn't as fun because you're basically guaranteed a loss if you're not going 100% and (b) since you screw around sometimes, when you really put your gameface on you realize there's no need and you're not getting the challenge you want.
Skill based match making is a good thing. The other way to look at it is as a filter that won't let you play with people you are guaranteed to crush, and those that are guaranteed to crush you. Play Highscool sports? You won't play against Professional athletes or the elementary school recess team. That doesn't mean there isn't a highschool team that'll kick your ass, or that if the other team shows up drunk that you won't beat them with one joystick taped sideways.
Most of us that aren't super good and treat the game like a career will also *rightfully* not take it seriously, showing up with our A-Game every single match. Besides our inability to perform consistently (even when trying) this aspect throws in an even greater variance to our "rating", and how we get matched, and gets sort of averaged by the fact that there are 12 players in a game.
I *DO* think that Bungie's algorithm for determining the combined skill of a team is a bit off. I played with an entire crew of DBOs in Iron Banner the other day, and we had a handful of close games, a couple last-1000-point comebacks, and some utter stomping. It was obvious that our team had individuals that were all over the rating map, and Bungie didn't know how to add that up.
But still, if it were Random, I'd probably get crushed more often than not, which wouldn't be very fun :(
Skill based matchmaking is bogus. It leads to bizarre forfeit-farming games where the other team doesn't even try for 50 games so that they can then have a cakewalk to undefeated land, as well as to an eventual 50% win scenario for players who always try their best. Some players (like me) who like to screw around from time to time will find that (a) screwing around isn't as fun because you're basically guaranteed a loss if you're not going 100% and (b) since you screw around sometimes, when you really put your gameface on you realize there's no need and you're not getting the challenge you want.
Skill based match making is a good thing. The other way to look at it is as a filter that won't let you play with people you are guaranteed to crush, and those that are guaranteed to crush you. Play Highscool sports? You won't play against Professional athletes or the elementary school recess team. That doesn't mean there isn't a highschool team that'll kick your ass, or that if the other team shows up drunk that you won't beat them with one joystick taped sideways.Most of us that aren't super good and treat the game like a career will also *rightfully* not take it seriously, showing up with our A-Game every single match. Besides our inability to perform consistently (even when trying) this aspect throws in an even greater variance to our "rating", and how we get matched, and gets sort of averaged by the fact that there are 12 players in a game.
I *DO* think that Bungie's algorithm for determining the combined skill of a team is a bit off. I played with an entire crew of DBOs in Iron Banner the other day, and we had a handful of close games, a couple last-1000-point comebacks, and some utter stomping. It was obvious that our team had individuals that were all over the rating map, and Bungie didn't know how to add that up.
But still, if it were Random, I'd probably get crushed more often than not, which wouldn't be very fun :(
I played most of my time in Iron Banner as a random. I lost more than I won, but I rarely had more than two medallions, maybe twice reaching the limit of 5. When I played with more than one or two DBO friends we didn't do much better, maybe flipping the ratio of win/losses, but one thing was certain, I would very nearly be shut down, completely unable to compete. I did better as a random, and I'm sad to say that playing as a random was more satisfying. Most of my online friends are better than me. That's just how it is.
Reminds me of Halo 3/Reach
those games were the turning point in my gaming career. That was when my younger brother became decidedly better than me at FPS, and my online experience playing with him and without him was extremely different. With him, the enemy couldn't miss, stuck every grenade, and handed me a negative K/D every game. Without him I was middle pack. On the flip side, he always lamented that the game was hard when I wasn't playing with him ;-)
Those darn kids...
by ZackDark , Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Wednesday, June 10, 2015, 13:59 (3694 days ago) @ Earendil
I usually feel like games are easier when playing with DBO folks, but usually not because enemy competence is lower. My K/D is often the exact same as when I go in alone, though, so I might be very close to the average of the groups I've been in anyway.
Random friendlies, however, are a whole different thing. They're usually exceedingly incompetent when I'm playing with DBO folks and quite alright when I'm playing alone.
Do we have the same little brother?
by red robber , Crawfish Country, Wednesday, June 10, 2015, 14:29 (3694 days ago) @ Earendil
I used to curb stomp Dusk on Goldeneye when he was a wee lad. We are 10 yrs apart and he was about 7 to my 17. It really wasn't fair at all. Unfortunately he took all that rage, and began to screw me sideways in the Halo series. I hated playing with him or against him.
Funny Bluerunner related story. We had our first LAN at Starkville and my middle school aged bro dominated some Halo CE custom games with about 10 other college kids, while he had a broken arm with a cast on. I'm pretty sure him and Blue were in the top 3 almost every game.
It was fun at first playing with him in Destiny because he's been out of gaming (for the most part) for the last 5 years. He's gotten better though, and if he played more I know he'd dominate me.
Exactly
by dogcow , Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Wednesday, June 10, 2015, 13:59 (3694 days ago) @ Kermit
I played most of my time in Iron Banner as a random. I lost more than I won, but I rarely had more than two medallions, maybe twice reaching the limit of 5. When I played with more than one or two DBO friends we didn't do much better, maybe flipping the ratio of win/losses, but one thing was certain, I would very nearly be shut down, completely unable to compete. I did better as a random, and I'm sad to say that playing as a random was more satisfying. Most of my online friends are better than me. That's just how it is.
When I play w/ DBO it seems I get a lower kdr, but I'd rather play with people who know what they're doing and can communicate with me instead of randoms. I"m getting better, but many of the DBO PS4 crew are better than I.
I played most of my time in Iron Banner as a random. I lost more than I won, but I rarely had more than two medallions, maybe twice reaching the limit of 5. When I played with more than one or two DBO friends we didn't do much better, maybe flipping the ratio of win/losses, but one thing was certain, I would very nearly be shut down, completely unable to compete. I did better as a random, and I'm sad to say that playing as a random was more satisfying. Most of my online friends are better than me. That's just how it is.
When I play w/ DBO it seems I get a lower kdr, but I'd rather play with people who know what they're doing and can communicate with me instead of randoms. I"m getting better, but many of the DBO PS4 crew are better than I.
Well, there you go. I never said I knew what I was doing.
A few other points:
- I probably do better when I can concentrate.
- Communication can be distracting especially if, like me, your primary sense modality is aural.
- Only a fraction of the communication I've experienced while playing with a full fireteam of friends has been strategic.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who does worse w/ DBO. ;)
by dogcow , Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Wednesday, June 10, 2015, 14:39 (3694 days ago) @ Kermit
- No text -
Exactly
by Claude Errera , Wednesday, June 10, 2015, 15:26 (3694 days ago) @ Kermit
I played most of my time in Iron Banner as a random. I lost more than I won, but I rarely had more than two medallions, maybe twice reaching the limit of 5. When I played with more than one or two DBO friends we didn't do much better, maybe flipping the ratio of win/losses, but one thing was certain, I would very nearly be shut down, completely unable to compete. I did better as a random, and I'm sad to say that playing as a random was more satisfying. Most of my online friends are better than me. That's just how it is.
When I play w/ DBO it seems I get a lower kdr, but I'd rather play with people who know what they're doing and can communicate with me instead of randoms. I"m getting better, but many of the DBO PS4 crew are better than I.
Well, there you go. I never said I knew what I was doing.A few other points:
- I probably do better when I can concentrate.
- Communication can be distracting especially if, like me, your primary sense modality is aural.
- Only a fraction of the communication I've experienced while playing with a full fireteam of friends has been strategic.
I had a game last week where I actually whined about this. I nearly took off to play solo, because it felt so wrong.
Normally, I'm fine with the mix of strategery and gossip that happens when a group of DBOers (or really, anyone who isn't super-competitive) gets together to play. That night, though, NONE of the conversation was about the game, and I learned something pretty important about my playstyle - my situational awareness drops dramatically when I'm playing with teammates. I do okay keeping track of the enemy when I'm playing alone, and I listen well when teammates are calling out positions or supers or sneaky control-point-stealers or whatever... but when I'm playing with friends who are NOT calling things out, I die to crossfire MUCH more often. After two horrible games of this (we won both of them; nobody was affected except me) I said I was leaving, because I simply couldn't switch my mind to single-player mode when I had teammates that were talking to me. They agreed to move the conversation to a more game-based one... and the problem went away. (We continued to win... but my contribution went from 6-15 to 15-10 or whatever.)
It was clearly MY problem - but I'd never realized before how much I let my playstyle change when I'm playing with friends vs alone. (I think partly it's my inability to filter out talk when I'm trying to concentrate - it's a big part of why I don't hang out on IRC channels any more, either. ;) )
Exactly
by CyberKN 
, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Wednesday, June 10, 2015, 15:41 (3694 days ago) @ Claude Errera
I played most of my time in Iron Banner as a random. I lost more than I won, but I rarely had more than two medallions, maybe twice reaching the limit of 5. When I played with more than one or two DBO friends we didn't do much better, maybe flipping the ratio of win/losses, but one thing was certain, I would very nearly be shut down, completely unable to compete. I did better as a random, and I'm sad to say that playing as a random was more satisfying. Most of my online friends are better than me. That's just how it is.
When I play w/ DBO it seems I get a lower kdr, but I'd rather play with people who know what they're doing and can communicate with me instead of randoms. I"m getting better, but many of the DBO PS4 crew are better than I.
Well, there you go. I never said I knew what I was doing.A few other points:
- I probably do better when I can concentrate.
- Communication can be distracting especially if, like me, your primary sense modality is aural.
- Only a fraction of the communication I've experienced while playing with a full fireteam of friends has been strategic.
I had a game last week where I actually whined about this. I nearly took off to play solo, because it felt so wrong.Normally, I'm fine with the mix of strategery and gossip that happens when a group of DBOers (or really, anyone who isn't super-competitive) gets together to play. That night, though, NONE of the conversation was about the game, and I learned something pretty important about my playstyle - my situational awareness drops dramatically when I'm playing with teammates. I do okay keeping track of the enemy when I'm playing alone, and I listen well when teammates are calling out positions or supers or sneaky control-point-stealers or whatever... but when I'm playing with friends who are NOT calling things out, I die to crossfire MUCH more often. After two horrible games of this (we won both of them; nobody was affected except me) I said I was leaving, because I simply couldn't switch my mind to single-player mode when I had teammates that were talking to me. They agreed to move the conversation to a more game-based one... and the problem went away. (We continued to win... but my contribution went from 6-15 to 15-10 or whatever.)
It was clearly MY problem - but I'd never realized before how much I let my playstyle change when I'm playing with friends vs alone. (I think partly it's my inability to filter out talk when I'm trying to concentrate - it's a big part of why I don't hang out on IRC channels any more, either. ;) )
Yeah, I have this issue as well.
It's even worse if people who aren't even in your game are also making conversation in the party.
This is why I set party to invite only.
Yeah, I have this issue as well.
It's even worse if people who aren't even in your game are also making conversation in the party.
It's not that I don't like you guys. It's just not what I use party for.
This is why I set party to invite only.
by dogcow , Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Wednesday, June 10, 2015, 16:00 (3694 days ago) @ iconicbanana
It's even worse if people who aren't even in your game are also making conversation in the party.
It's not that I don't like you guys. It's just not what I use party for.
I enjoy the banter, especially when running nightfalls as 2 groups of 6, however there are times when I don't like it. They are:
- Trials of Osiris
- Iron Banner (sometimes it's fine)
- Skolas
- Story missions the first few times (I want to hear and enjoy the dialog).
So, difficult or competitive things, and things where I want to hear the game & not friends.
I'm exactly with you here.
by Speedracer513 , Dallas, Texas, Wednesday, June 10, 2015, 16:13 (3694 days ago) @ dogcow
It's even worse if people who aren't even in your game are also making conversation in the party.
It's not that I don't like you guys. It's just not what I use party for.
I enjoy the banter, especially when running nightfalls as 2 groups of 6, however there are times when I don't like it. They are:
- Trials of Osiris
- Iron Banner (sometimes it's fine)
- Skolas
- Story missions the first few times (I want to hear and enjoy the dialog).
So, difficult or competitive things, and things where I want to hear the game & not friends.
I was going to expound my thoughts, but really it just comes down to the fact that I actually really enjoy the banter in a large party-chat -- except for Trials, Skolas (or other end-game PvE activities that are still difficult) and the first few times through new story content.
It's even worse if people who aren't even in your game are also making conversation in the party.
I'm going to go ahead of cement my reputation as a curmudgeon here: I kind of hate this. I don't mind it when I'm on patrol or bounty hunting. I don't mind when people drop in to say hello or confirm plans or make plans, but the loitering just to chat while I'm doing something that requires some focus and possibly communication with my teammates, THAT bugs me (with some exceptions--e.g., Any dose of Mig makes any game better.)
I'm not a good multi-tasker, and frankly, I think people who brag about being great at multi-tasking are full of it. Anything we do well can be done better with focus. Granted, fun leisure activities aren't exclusively and don't need to be about doing anything well.
Same here.
by red robber , Crawfish Country, Wednesday, June 10, 2015, 15:52 (3694 days ago) @ Claude Errera
I can usually listen (or perhaps just hear) the banter of teammates and not have it affect my play, but if I'm involved, I'll start to tank.
If its game chat, then its usually ok, but I still find more often than not that once I'm engaging I completely ignore anything being said. Strange how that works.
I still think I have a better experience and win/loss ratio with DBOers because in general we are all average to above average players. My Iron Banner stats reflect that. Its the only category that I have an above 50% win ratio and the only mode I consistently play with DbO. My playstyle is paced/defensive and that doesn't lead to many points (especially in control), even though my k/d's are around 1.4. Nor is it good for rumble. I can easily get 17k to 10d, but you need 23-25kills to win even if your k/d is 1.0 or worse.
But there is still no better feeling than sharing a comeback win with team DBO, even if I'm at the bottom of the rung on the team.
Exactly
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, June 10, 2015, 16:10 (3694 days ago) @ Claude Errera
Ha! That sounds like Halo era buffoonery to me! Back when you'd either get a team that was completely silent, one that had excellent combat chatter, or one that just talked nonstop about the most annoyingly random locally specific stuff like where they wanted to eat later or what she said to him about her and how it's probably all a lie because he told a different story... before changing it... twice...
Talk about your real lives on your own time, you jerks, I'm tryin' to game here! :p
Exactly
I had a game last week where I actually whined about this. I nearly took off to play solo, because it felt so wrong.
Normally, I'm fine with the mix of strategery and gossip that happens when a group of DBOers (or really, anyone who isn't super-competitive) gets together to play. That night, though, NONE of the conversation was about the game, and I learned something pretty important about my playstyle - my situational awareness drops dramatically when I'm playing with teammates. I do okay keeping track of the enemy when I'm playing alone, and I listen well when teammates are calling out positions or supers or sneaky control-point-stealers or whatever... but when I'm playing with friends who are NOT calling things out, I die to crossfire MUCH more often. After two horrible games of this (we won both of them; nobody was affected except me) I said I was leaving, because I simply couldn't switch my mind to single-player mode when I had teammates that were talking to me. They agreed to move the conversation to a more game-based one... and the problem went away. (We continued to win... but my contribution went from 6-15 to 15-10 or whatever.)
It was clearly MY problem - but I'd never realized before how much I let my playstyle change when I'm playing with friends vs alone. (I think partly it's my inability to filter out talk when I'm trying to concentrate - it's a big part of why I don't hang out on IRC channels any more, either. ;) )
What a bunch of assholes.
I played most of my time in Iron Banner as a random. I lost more than I won, but I rarely had more than two medallions, maybe twice reaching the limit of 5. When I played with more than one or two DBO friends we didn't do much better, maybe flipping the ratio of win/losses, but one thing was certain, I would very nearly be shut down, completely unable to compete. I did better as a random, and I'm sad to say that playing as a random was more satisfying. Most of my online friends are better than me. That's just how it is.
When I play w/ DBO it seems I get a lower kdr, but I'd rather play with people who know what they're doing and can communicate with me instead of randoms. I"m getting better, but many of the DBO PS4 crew are better than I.
Well, there you go. I never said I knew what I was doing.A few other points:
- I probably do better when I can concentrate.
- Communication can be distracting especially if, like me, your primary sense modality is aural.
- Only a fraction of the communication I've experienced while playing with a full fireteam of friends has been strategic.
Funny thing, I noticed a similar effect during the week that my wife was away and u could finally talk; I played way worse than usual! I've become so accustomed to playing as a "mute", that reciprocating the communication with my teammates was just distracting enough to make a difference.
I find Solo easier too
I'm no Ottermack, but I consider myself pretty good in PvP. Even then, rolling as a team this IB (with DBO, my clan or LFG) definitely felt harder than last IB, which I ran entirely solo. I don't just mean more losses either (we actually performed pretty well all week, Wednesday excluded). I felt like most of my 1v1 firefights were closer, and I was definitely murdered unexpectedly by good teamwork more often.
I don't know if it was actually harder or if it was just the fact I could communicate with my team about how hard it was, but It definitely felt different. Maybe because we were playing vs teams of 6 rather than 6 solo-ers?
I find Solo easier too
by dogcow , Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Wednesday, June 10, 2015, 15:15 (3694 days ago) @ someotherguy
I don't know if it was actually harder or if it was just the fact I could communicate with my team about how hard it was, but It definitely felt different. Maybe because we were playing vs teams of 6 rather than 6 solo-ers?
That is definitely a factor too, running against another team who takes on specific roles & communicates well definitely makes it more intense, especially when me & my team are not. :)